Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: cajun on June 07, 2002, 10:48:57 AM
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I find torpedos incredibly useless in AH, they go extreemly slow and never hit, in fact once I was right behind a carrier in a PT boat fired a torpedo and the carrier out ran it!... Maybe if HTC increased the speed of torpedos? Cuz right now its just suicide.
Maybe I'm just doing it wrong but I have never hit an enemy ship with a torp yet and very rarely do I see anyone else... especially on the H2H where I play, theres no more than about 4 ppl on each team and usuelly u are attacking in 1's and 2's and die after first (or more often then not) before first pass on a carrier.
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At least give us some sort of aiming system.
Guess i coild practise, but im to darn lazy :D
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From a post in the feedback issues forum:
Use PTs formations of 3 or 5 ships, just like the new bomber formations and fire a " big" salvo of torpedoes.
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Hi Nilsen2
>At least give us some sort of aiming system.
From what I've read, the torpedos had a mechanical analog computer that was fed with the target ship's relative course as well as with its speed. Just before release, the pilot (or torpedo aimer) would flip a switch to compensate for the target's manoeuvres (if any), indicating whether it turned at him or away from it (switch centre position was for targets running straight :-)
The computer also required advance setting of the torpedo's speed and (I think) also of the release range.
I'm not sure whether special sights were used for aiming torpedos, but my impression is that the aircraft just flew straight at their targets using their usual reflector sights.
(This information is from memory while I'm trying to recall Dunstan Hadley's "Barracuda Pilot" and a Jet + Prop letter to the editor. The Jet + Prop letter featured a photograph of the command unit of a German torpedo computer that seemed to have all the features Hadley mentioned for the British system, too. The neat thing about the German system was that relative course was set by turning a knob in the shape of a little warship :-) The Luftwaffe must have its share of reverse-course shots during excercises, I bet! :-)
By the way, I think Hadley also mentioned that they had a converted instrument flight simulator (certainly the "Link Trainer") that served as visual torpedo bombing simulator.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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I wish the would put the G.55 Centauro in so it could carry torps, even though it was a fighter it could. With it we could go faster than 4mph while in your run and evade some fire possibly?
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Kevin,
The Ki-67 already goes too fast for the crappy US and German torpedoes in AH. The plane isn't the problem, the torpedo is.
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There is a serious gameplay imbalance with ships, ack, torps, kamakazis.
Ships die too easily by suicide dorks, ships ack and manned 5-inchers kill legitimate attacks too easily (perhaps accurately I dunno, but it tends to harm immersion for me) while torps are just like shooting in the dark. At least thats my take on the matter.
The controller of the CV groups should have steering through JS when at the helm. This would cut down on pole stroke time to plot new waypoints to avoid the LANC dorks. CV controller should also be able to anchor, what the hell, why not. Ships do have anchors!
Ships should take damage, slow, stop, list...lose capacity like fields.
The lethality in AH prevents/discourages worthwhile attempts to survive attacks by fighter bombers and torp bombers thus promoting suicide dorks. Unfortunately, the game lethality that makes A2A so gratifying to weekenders and kidz (as well as old hand pukes I might as well add) does unfortunately detract from the naval aspect, strictly in my opinion. This in turn helps to generate the clusterf*ck, phurball, way overcrowded insy-bitsy teensy-weensie terrain feel the MA can at times generate.
Many others have voiced similar points of view.
Bottom line is: Im sure HTC knows all this. I feel they have undoubtadly carved the straightest line for gameplay for this product at this time and have taken everything into consideration. IMO however, there is still a disconnect with navy stuff and gameplay. Perhaps some future version will address all this stuff (and a version soon will likely deal with GVs).
HTC IS on the ball and Im not complaining, its called therapy :)
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Completely agree with Yeager.
I'm still fairly new but I can see how the Naval side needs some fixing. Early on I tried attacking CV's. Few hundred deaths later I decided it was more fun to not attack them. Seems the only way to get them is kamakazi or high ALT bombing. I don't think anyone ever attacked ships by level bombing them...
How about some Submarines :)
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Yes torps are a bicth..
But We MAW's have one way that has worked well....
We launch an arado attak...Not over 5-6k......Our last one i lost my oil plug in left eng and my nose gear!!!...was funny....
Landing Arado with out nose gear is funny..I made it tho..saved my 60 points...
We may have lost 1 arado..out of 3..we all generaly went in at same time so the AAA would only pulverize one of us..with the speed of the arado,,,it makes AAA hitn us a bit tuffer...
Wait im sure one day we will have those JAP Long Lance Torps that go for 10 miles!!!,....
I think we wont have to woory too much more about Laser guided LAnc boms..hitn CV..Now it will be Capret Boms..lolo
Oops ..back to Torps... .well nevr mind..its Lunch time..
BiGB......................... ....................BGBMAW
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Imagine; being in command of a CV, being able to maneuver freely, being able to adjust speed and even anchor, having several viewpoints on the ship's bridge, and maybe even have manned destroyers/battleships who can also maneuver.
I bet it would make up some hard work for HTC, but they'd make my dream come true, and some other one's too.
Ahhh what the heck, I'm off to join the navy. :D
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cajun... attacking a cv from anywhere behind 3-9 oclock line is a waste of time. I'd imagine in reality this was also a bad idea +)
Best angles for hitting a ship is close to headon in AH. I like to come in at 1-11 oclock and drop after the AA starts firin
SKurj
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I still dont know why people prefere kamikazi attacks on the fleet. The acks are not that leathal. If I come at about 14k I find it reasonably easy to hit the carrier or cruiser and get out safly.
not saying that it's VERY easy, just REASONABLY - you can get out without harm more than half the times.
Bozon
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bozon-
Can you give us a film showing the tricks of the trade, I really want to know how to sink CVs
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Yes, I'd also like to see a film, when I try EVERY time I or anyone flying with me even gets within fire range of a CV for over 10 secs it is total suicide every time.
What am I doing wrong? I usuelly try to come in low with torps but it allways winds up a complete failure and often dying before I get close enough to even drop my torp.
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I'll make a film and post it here.
the trick is to zig-zag at the right "timing". the AI acks calculate the lead needed for a hit, so you let them fire, then zig to the other side, then a new batch of tracers come out and you zag back. the acks have some randomality in them so they can still hit you by pure luck.
keep your speed high so you'll get out of range as fast as possible, and enable you to pull sharp zig-zags.
with planes such as the f6f and p-47 (my 2 favorites) you can even take a hit and still be flyable (even fightable sometimes).
this would have been much easier if there wasn't such a strong wind sheer at 8k (you are hit by 30mph wind just as you are fine-aiming).
Bozon
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here is the film,
the acks dont show on the film so it takes out a little of the impression :)
I made sure that the planes (drones) circling the CV would be from the same country as the CV (bish). this way they dont shoot the drones and all the fire is directed at me.
also, I chose to attack the cruiser because it takes more than 2k bombs to sink the carrier.
without the silly wind layer at 8k it was easy enought to be on the mark at 8k and pull out at about 6k.
the film:
fleet attack (http://www.aikkon.com/vikings/bozon/fleet_attack.zip)
Bozon
p.s.
this only works on bish fleets in the MA, so join the rooks/knights...
fight the powa' !
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I think in the help and training forum a few months ago, Ripsnort or Ghosth posted a series of screenshots on how to make a torp attacks that works..
SKurj
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Here's a CV torpedo attack film done offline. Hope it helps.
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Where do I save the film?
Though this post was on using torps, not dive bombing. Is there any way to attack with torps and expect to get a hit with no more than 1-2 people helping you?
I have NEVER even hit an enemy ship (much less an allied come to think of it) with a trop, they go slower than 15-30 mph it seems!
I'm just saying torpedo attacks are currently very undermodeled, or aa is over modeled or something. Please keep in mind I am playing in H2H not MA that means when you attack a ship it is usuelly you and ONLY you or maybe 1 person helping you, attacking an entire fleet.
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The zip file showing torp attack on carrier was too big to attach. Here's a film showing attack on the cruiser that I hope will get through. Hope it helps.
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But where do i save the film to watch it?
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Here's a film of a JU88 torpedo attack on a convoy on the Sicily terrain. Save the film to C:\Program Files\HTC\Aces High\films
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Here's a film of a JU88 torpedo attack on a convoy on the Sicily terrain. Save the film to C:\Program Files\HTC\Aces High\films
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here's film of a tbf torp attack on a carrier
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Torpedoe attacks are probably the single hardest thing to do right in AH. Takes a LOT of practise and there are many variables. Too late and ack eats you, too early and you miss.
Personally I like to get VERY low, drop when the ack has waterspouts all around you. Use a flat rudder turn to exit.
Practise, practise & practise.
Have someone on the CV track your shots or someone fly high and tell you where your birds are tracking. Even I can get one & then but its not an everytime thing.
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might i remind you that this game is called ACES HIGH not aces on the water...and if they must make it os we actually can torpedo ships do it by adding a SUBMARINE...add depth charges to the boats all that stuff and completly kill our fps with a wholke bunch of water junk...I AM AGAINST THE IDEA OF EVEN HAVING THE SHIPS IN THE GAME...this is a air combat game not a land or sea combat game...you want sea combat get a sub or destroyer simulator...you wnat land combat get PANER general or something...but yoiu dont want those you just want air combat wich is why you play this game
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Originally posted by vorticon
might i remind you that this game is called ACES HIGH not aces on the water...and if they must make it os we actually can torpedo ships do it by adding a SUBMARINE...add depth charges to the boats all that stuff and completly kill our fps with a wholke bunch of water junk...I AM AGAINST THE IDEA OF EVEN HAVING THE SHIPS IN THE GAME...this is a air combat game not a land or sea combat game...you want sea combat get a sub or destroyer simulator...you wnat land combat get PANER general or something...but yoiu dont want those you just want air combat wich is why you play this game
vorticon,
This game is an air combat game, it is meant to SIMULATE what REAL PILOTS did. Real pilots did not just appear 10k at 300 mph and just go at it, they took of from feilds, or carriers and were given missions to do things like attack FEILDS or CARRIERS and other targets not just planes.
This game is also meant to be a somewhat strategic game and historical game, now how can you recreate something like the pacific theater without carriers or ships?:rolleyes:
I don't know what you like about AH, but it apears to me just furballing, that is fine. But some people like me love strategic, even many people who do not care for the strategic part of the game enjoy having ships.
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Originally posted by cajun
Originally posted by Vorticon
might i remind you that this game is called ACES HIGH not aces on the water...and if they must make it os we actually can torpedo ships do it by adding a SUBMARINE...add depth charges to the boats all that stuff and completly kill our fps with a wholke bunch of water junk...I AM AGAINST THE IDEA OF EVEN HAVING THE SHIPS IN THE GAME...this is a air combat game not a land or sea combat game...you want sea combat get a sub or destroyer simulator...you wnat land combat get PANER general or something...but yoiu dont want those you just want air combat wich is why you play this game
vorticon,
This game is an air combat game, it is meant to SIMULATE what REAL PILOTS did. Real pilots did not just appear 10k at 300 mph and just go at it, they took of from feilds, or carriers and were given missions to do things like attack FEILDS or CARRIERS and other targets not just planes.
This game is also meant to be a somewhat strategic game and historical game, now how can you recreate something like the pacific theater without carriers or ships?:rolleyes:
I don't know what you like about AH, but it apears to me just furballing, that is fine. But some people like me love strategic, even many people who do not care for the strategic part of the game enjoy having ships. [/B]
I wish they would add some more reality to the sea war. I do agree however that of course the air war should have priority. Adding a whole UNDERwater war would just make this game way to far from air combat.
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I flew the torp JU88 a lot in fleet attacks 18 months ago and found it great fun. Mostly made head-on attacks, releasing torpedos at the same time as the fleet started firing and then egressing. These pictures show the other, 90 degree attack I used with varying success.
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And with Ju88
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cajun
what you say is true...this game is to simulate what real pilots did and i never said that it didnt or wasnt supposed to all i said was that it was a air combat not sea combat game and as dropping a torp out of a tbm or a ki-67 is part of air combat. i also stated that air war has the priority not sea. kevin14 pulled what i really meant by that statement i said.
now if only we could get some real dive bombers...HINT HINT
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Far too many people employ the torpedoes incorrectly. A tail chase is a good example. Most pilots boresight a ship as though the torpedo is a rocket (I see this everytime I man a 5" gun). They launch and I'm sure wonder why the torpedo seems to miss after the drop. The ship sails by leaving the torp in its wake. Airplanes and PT's need to lead their targets - a lot. When you think your aimpoint is far enough in front of the ship, add some more.
However:
A key thing to remember is that torpedoes do not have to actually hit a ship to be effective.
Torpedo runs by bombers and PT's are great ways to force a fleet to turn. Done correctly, successive attacks can heard a fleet away from an area if the fleet skipper is vigilant in trying to protect his ships.
Forcing a carrier to turn also makes it very hazardous to the airplanes trying to take off. Many pilots run off the sides or hit the superstructure during the take off roll. Smart pilots wait til the ship starts to straighten out. Keeps air ops minimized.
MiG
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Originally posted by vorticon
might i remind you that this game is called ACES HIGH not aces on the water...
Good point. It might be time for a name change to end the confusion. How about:
Aces High, Wet, and Dry.
MiG