Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: easymo on July 06, 2000, 03:29:00 PM
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I found out y the A5,s are flopping around.
Offline. I yanked the stick around as fast as I could. I could not get a dont move stick message nomatter what I did.
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Hugs and bullits
EZ
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p47s too
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I wanna see evidence of this.
I have been accused of it but i dont even know what such a thing is. I have never had anyone do it to me so i dont know what it is.
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Zig. Go offline, and try to set off the " Dont move your stick so rapidly" message.
With the roll rate of the 190,s, they can do things no airplane has ever done.
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If I had a KI 84. I wouldnt have time to squeak.
EZ
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You should stay of the whine easymo, try telling us something that you do LIKE about AH
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Nice sunsets.
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If I had a KI 84. I wouldnt have time to squeak.
EZ
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(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) there doesn't that feel better? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Easymo I regularly get the messages. It seems to happen when I'm taking off. Usually ends in me flying into a hangar.
So the stick-stirring code definitely works.
-vlkn-
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I used to get it on my old system, but that was due to joystick "spikes". I didn't even have to touch the stick and I'd get them.
On my new system, I've never even seen one. I suppose if I set the sensitivity really high I could, but then I don't think I could fly at all.
Sisu
-Karnak
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huh using CH complet pro gear and how many time got msg and freez up of the control
and finished on the deck
anyway it depend on stick and seting but definitely it works
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
I wanna see evidence of this.
I have been accused of it but i dont even know what such a thing is. I have never had anyone do it to me so i dont know what it is.
Maybe stick stirring is being confused with snap rolls? And given the rate of roll in that situation no wonder it shows up funny on the other guy's end.
- Jig
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I used to get the message all the time,but i found moving Dead Band & Dampers up a touch stops the message.
Also got the message when i reinstalled DX7a as it automaticaly enabled interupes in the Jstick Config area...
Dog out............
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I must say I've seen warp rolls too - only with the 190 so far. Happens a lot when guys start guns defence and when they split-s.
Waste a lot of ammo trying to hit guys doing this.
Ex.
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The only time I can get an evading 190A-5 is when its on the deck. The fact that it can scissor and split ess so quickly makes it almost impossible to hit if there is alt. However, once it's on the deck the A-5 is limited to flat scissors, and can be dealt with. BTW, I think its ability in AH is historical. The warp rolls are just the result of the net being unable to keep up with the roll rate.
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 07-07-2000).]
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I took an Fw 190A-5 online and moved the stick around quickly - the "Stop Moving Your Controls So Rapidly" message comes up as it should.
I have seen some very fast rolling evasives by 190's. But if they have a good connection it is NOT warpy, just a skillful usage of the 190's historical attributes.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-07-2000).]
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I saw a guy doing some stirring in a 190 tonight. On a few different occassions. He denied it, said he was rolling, using only his rudder LOL. Didn't look warpy to me, just stirry. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Warp rolls are understandably due to net lag and I don't have an issue with it...just unfortunate that they occur.
Ex.
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Ok I'll bite...
hblair is talking about me. And no, I didn't mean I was just using my rudder. I was using both roll with a bit of rudder. Like what R. Johnson did when he did the mock dogfight against the Spit.. except it sounded more like he did a whole lot of rolling than I would dare to try. I was pretty low already in the A5, and hb came in hot both times. First time I was running from six of them and I knew I was dead, but wanted to at least give them a hard time. Second time I was the last bish in the area and same thing, I wanted to give them a hard time, despite knowing I was pretty much dead. This is one of the first times I've been character attacked in AH, and I didn't like it at all. I had just bought a brand new Cyborg 3D stick to get rid of incessant stick spike that would give me the stick stir code without me giving any input at all. The cyborg is a lot stiffer with a nice spring plainly seen. I would not beat up my brand new stick just to attempt to get away in a game, especially when I knew I was dead. There is absolutely no reason for me to "stick stir" unless the definition includes basic guns defense. There is nothing for me to gain by cheating.. I'm not a high-scorer, and I'm comfortable knowing I'm not going to be one for a long time because I can't spend a lot of time playing online.
The stick stir code is there, and it works. Please do not continue to accuse people of cheating. Tell HTC there is a problem and show it to them and it will probably get fixed.
mauser
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Originally posted by mauser:
The cyborg is a lot stiffer with a nice spring plainly seen. I would not beat up my brand new stick just to attempt to get away in a game,
mauser
Unfortunately I HAVE beat up a stick or two trying to get away (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But I have a nice stock of CH parts for use-as-needed modifications (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
AW was bad on sticks. Least for me. I had to rig my combat stick with about 7 o-rings on the Y-axis to fly the mushy Jug there, to give it any feel. This also required some double-sided construction tape (baa velcro is for weaklings).
Thus you can see the potential for damage under all that stress (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Namely just springs popping every couple of years, but having a stick go limp, or it coming un-(insert adhesive type here) during a tough fight ain't funny. Least not at the time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Somethin bout flying a Jug makes people aggressive. Dunno what it is (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Rolling scissors with a stiff flight yoke,
now that's rough. Dang desk feels like it's going to come apart, monitor a shaking etc (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Jig
[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 07-07-2000).]
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I've never received, nor seen, that message "Don't jerk your stick so hard'..or whatever it says.
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Originally posted by Wardog:
I used to get the message all the time,but i found moving Dead Band & Dampers up a touch stops the message.
Also got the message when i reinstalled DX7a as it automaticaly enabled interupes in the Jstick Config area...
Dog out............
This is what I did when in beta on V.34, so this is probably why I've never seen it.
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What does stirry look like as opposed to warpy. I see 190's and 205's jump around all the time when I get under d300.
BTW I have never gotten the stir messege no matter how fast I move the stick
Shamus
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[This is one of the first times I've been character attacked in AH, and I didn't like it at all.
The first time ya did it, after I killed you, I typed, "No stirring allowed" Was meant as a joke bud (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). Nothing more. I wasn't pissed at ya because of the stir at that time, was no problem. I think you might have taken offense, thinking it was an accusation of some kinda cheat or something. Wasn't meant that way.
I forgot what I typed after the second deal, but it kinda unraveled me when you told me the problem must be on my front end, or my connect or something, or what I believed I saw wasn't what happened. Now that kinda pissed me off.
If ya get low with enemies on your 6, a throttle back, followed with an abrupt left & right scissor with some elevator thrown in will cause an overshoot just about every time. Thats what I usually do. Do whatever move ya want, I won't say anything else. It's your $30.
What I saw last night looked like a buncha yanking around. Kinda like what we used to see in the ACA hehe. No big deal. It wasn't a personal attack on you. I hope you didn't take it that way.
BTW, kewl handle. LW man myself. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 07-07-2000).]
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I didnt say anything about cheating. In the heat of being chased, people will get excited and start moveing the stick. I think its a flaw in the A5. I never saw this when all we had was the A8. Also I did not say anything about warps. What im seeing is 190,s floppping around at cartoon speeds.
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Last night I was in training working with Dingy. I was in an FW190-A5 and a P51-D and got that message too. I have never received it in the main area and it was resolved by changing my stick scaling and deadband settings. I was just flying as I always do. Rude was in there practicing and he got it too. Is there a difference between the settings in Practice Arena and Main Area or were we just trying harder.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/thunder.gif)
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The only time I've been accused of stick stirring:
Someone was closing on my 6 rapidly. I waited until they were 1.5 away and I rolled right then banked as hard as I could. I stalled due to too much elevator and had to fite to keep from hitting the ground. It was a mirracle I didn't auger. What really made the ordeal special was the guy who was pissed because he missed a snapshot:
Pissed guy: You $%@#* stick stirring $#%$@# cheater
Pissed guy: You warped on $#%#@## purpose!
When I see someone warp on a roll, I know what is happening and I accept it for that and get on with the fite. When I see someone go off on someone else for it... I think lesser of that person.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
The only time I've been accused of stick stirring:
Someone was closing on my 6 rapidly. I waited until they were 1.5 away and I rolled right then banked as hard as I could. I stalled due to too much elevator and had to fite to keep from hitting the ground. It was a mirracle I didn't auger. What really made the ordeal special was the guy who was pissed because he missed a snapshot:
Pissed guy: You $%@#* stick stirring $#%$@# cheater
Pissed guy: You warped on $#%#@## purpose!
When I see someone warp on a roll, I know what is happening and I accept it for that and get on with the fite. When I see someone go off on someone else for it... I think lesser of that person.
AKDejaVu
Ala snap roll. Departure is so fast that the net has a hard time keeping up with the roll.
Least the plane doing it isn't controlable at the time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Jig
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Ok, what is stick stirring? Is it litterally what it sounds like?
Just asking so I have an idea when I see it
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Stick Stirring = Yanking the stick in all directions with no particular ACM move in mind other than to make your plane jump around and be a hard target.
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Occasionally I see a plane that flies at a weird angle.
For example: Instead of flying nose forward, it flies nose up with left wing forward. This will last 2-3 seconds then this plane might change direction at an impossible angle.
Is this the result of "Stick Stirring"?
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"One more dead brain cell and you're a talking monkey."
Yankee
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A 2-3 second warp is not the result of stick stirring. It is the result of a momentary loss of connection. The smoothing code causes the plane to keep going in the direction/acceleration it was heading before it stopped receiving its packets. The warp comes when the packets start arriving again.
Right now you should see this in planes beyond X range. The server does not send your FE updates on these planes as fast as planes that are closer.
After a while... you get the hang of what is normal and what is not. The net is not a twisted pair network... it can't always keep up. Once broadband is here.. things may change. Until then.. we deal with it.
AKDejaVu
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AKDejaVu;
CC and thanks! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I do however see this at close ranges as well, upon occasion. Say d400 or less.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"So what do you post here? Poetic love letters?"
Ram
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i put warps down to servers and connecions and prefer to think its not induced by a 'cheat' until i read this i didnt know what stirring was...lets keep it that way..the more its talked about surely the more people will try it.
i beleive in sportsmanship..if i cant win honestly im not winning at all. Stop describing how to 'cheat' and we may not see it too often (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
hazed
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Just curious, but in Warbirds it turned out the the stick stirring problem was related to red and blackouts.
If you violently move the stick around trying to evade it did not cause the little micro warps or flea jumping of the plane unless you did a quick red out or black out.
I only know this because a few of us did several experiments to prove this out. What you do is go to an arena, training arena is best, and then one plane becomes the target and stick stirrer while the other follow D3 or less. Every time you see the target plane jump you determine exactly what the pilot was doing and what he saw. That is how we found the redout/blackout problem.
I believe this have now been fixed in the other Sim but perhaps this is what you are seeing in AH as well? Try it out, it will only take a few minutes to experiment.
Ram1
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LOL... now watch how many LW guys claim it doesn't exist, followed by "all planes can do it" (when they are finally beaten into admitting it) and "turn is not important"... Oops... strike that last... right sim...different thread.
lazs
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
A 2-3 second warp is not the result of stick stirring. It is the result of a momentary loss of connection. The smoothing code causes the plane to keep going in the direction/acceleration it was heading before it stopped receiving its packets. The warp comes when the packets start arriving again.
Right now you should see this in planes beyond X range. The server does not send your FE updates on these planes as fast as planes that are closer.
After a while... you get the hang of what is normal and what is not. The net is not a twisted pair network... it can't always keep up. Once broadband is here.. things may change. Until then.. we deal with it.
AKDejaVu
Keep in mind that cross-controling with full rudder WILL make a plane fly this way. Well except bombers.
- Jig
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Originally posted by -lazs-:
LOL... now watch how many LW guys claim it doesn't exist, followed by "all planes can do it" (when they are finally beaten into admitting it) and "turn is not important"... Oops... strike that last... right sim...different thread.
lazs
Ya know, Lazs, I've been on both sides of the fence, in VF-101 in WB's and recently for 6 months in JG2, and I just don't understand why folks like you draw lines in the sand and put LW on that side and yourself on this side of the line..its degradating to the community. Heck, we're all some sort of A/C fans, only difference may be that your Grandfather gave you a model of an F4U when you were a kid, and someone like Maik might have got a FW190 model when he was a kid...Just my opinion. Had to vent.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 07-10-2000).]
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rip... allthough I am impressed with your new found sensitivity, your "poor unfairly malighned LW pilot" act doesn't ring true to me.
If you have a sim where climb, roll, speed and cannon are the most important features plus, roll rate for some planes is "just over the edge" where it is capable of being the only plane that can reliably warp roll and then ... you trivialize turn rates by blurring them in most cases and outright changing the coparitive rates plus, damage models are such that AP rounds are not given their full value... Then, I would say that even though some planes have an unfair and biased advantage.... It is the fault of the sim and has nothing to do with the pilots.
but... if the guys that fly the planes with the unfair advantage won't admit to it or try to defend their unfair advantage or trivialize it... Then it isn't just the sim that is at fault.
As for the LW guys... I've known a lot of em and they fly em for different reasons. 90% are great guys who just fly whatever their handed and make the most of it. Some... have read too many LW romance novels or entered into too many head butting contests or... are just plain dishonest, sissy, wife beating, sneaks with phony bad bellybutton persona's . They also tend to brag that they are the best or that the biased sim proves that LW planes and pilots are the best. I have no problem with the first group but I take issue with the last group(s).
but then.... maybe it's just me.
lazs