Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on August 31, 2000, 10:03:00 AM
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The P51s speed and hi-speed agility give it several excellent qualities as a fighter. The ability to escape bad situations... the ability to out maneuver planes at high speed... and so on.
While these are excellent traits and lend themselves to high kill streaks, one serious flaw is being overlooked:
This plane simply sucks for defending your countrymates unless they are flying one too.
There were 4 of us defending a nothern base from continuous waves of attacks. The waves were expected since the base was well within enemy territory. The furballs were fast and furious with 109s, f4s, p47s, 190s, Spits, Typhoons, and a lone p51.
The enemy was primarily flying 109s, F4s and 190s. We were keeping pretty even on k/d (maybe a slight advantage to us)... but we were right at our base and able to re-plane to help other friendlies while the enemy had to take the time to get back to our base.
Eventually, an enemy P51 arrived and dove through the furball. A quick jink later and he was on his way out without landing a shot.. with one plane lazily chasing. That plane broke off as the P51 continued running. The P51 eventually came back (all other cons had been downed) and dove through again. I don't know if he got someone or not. I don't believe he did. He then climbed out of the fight as we all grabbed alt at the base.
As the next wave attacked, the same thing happened. By this time, we'd gained a distinct energy advantage and the enemy was too spread out to be effective. Yet the p51 continued swooping in and out... never being paid much attention.
We couldn't catch the plane. It out zoomed us every time. He got no kills and cleared zero pilots. He contributed nothing. He was a neusance at best. I wonder what his kill streak was at?
Planes that give you a high survivability rate usually do it by being able to keep you out of the fight. This is the p51's strength. Sometimes, however, you need to be in the middle of the fight to help out. This is the 51's weakness.
I'm sorry, but if I see a p51 try to turn in the middle of a furball.. I say "oh.. goodie (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)".
Its a decent ride, and can be quite a neusance. Its just that in order to be effect with it in the air... you are seldomely able to be effective with it in the war.
Some people manage to do things in this plane that go against the grain of this argument. Those are people that spend many hours playing this game and learning the neuances of the flight model... or have tons of time flying the 51 and have learned that one plane inside and out.
Uberness is not achieved by requiring a skilled pilot to be behind the stick. Uberness is a plane's ability to make even a bad pilot look good.
Also... going from a 190/109 to a p51 is not that great of a leap. I think its even less of a leap than most LW pilots are willing to admit... and its not always a leap up.
AKDejaVu
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That's why in war and in scenarios, you try to fly the same plane as your teammates. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The main thing in AH is scenarios. The MA is just a training ground. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-31-2000).]
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Good post AK. In fact points several good things about P51 and the special weakness of it: if he loses E he is lost.
Still, it can make you decline the fight. You can bounce one or two times into a furball and try to kill one. As long as you know when to disengage, it will bring you home.
But is that a weakness?...really?...tell me if you put wardog in that plane, or Hangtime, are you sure he wouldn't have cleared any six or killed any plane?...for that same thing, put that pilot you saw in ANY BnZ plane and you'll say that it is useless for clearing sixes and teamwork.
The factor deciding that is the pilot, not the plane. THe P51 can fight as well as any other plane here, but the use most pilots give it doesnt allow it to show all its qualities.
Its a bet, a safe one. This P51 you are speaking of is the kind of people that pisses me in MA, the ones who know to run and bounce but not to fight. You CAN fight in P51, you CAN turnfight with it for short periods (I did it yesterday). but you MUST know when to disengage.
I find P51 like an all around better Fw190A8, if we forget about rollrate. P51 climbs better, dives better, zooms better, turns better, keeps E better,its faster, has better weapons (I am serious) and its hands down better over 10K than A8.
compared with G10, P51 is slower accelerating, has speed comparable, and of course climbs worse. But it has better handling at all speeds, specially over 300mph, dives way better, turns better, has way better weapons, rolls much better, and has 2 times the rudder authority the G10 has-...not to talk about lack of authority in elevators on G10.
Compared with A5 P51 accelerates and climbs worse under 10K, and, of coure,rolls much worse. Over it, it is better in all things. It is way faster at all altitudes, dives way better, has better weapons (I am serious),has comparable E retention...in short ,P51 is better hands down over 10K and is better at low altitudes (can rule the engagement, defining the when and how of the engaging/disengaging).
As arena plane, P51 is the best hands down. Fw190A5 comes near ,but not VERY near.
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51 is one of the worst planes in arena. I do not talk about killing streak and survivability. I do talk about its tactical arsenal. It seems to me, that the only one really winning strategy for p51 is hit and run, turn, hit and run, turn... and so on. It can run away, but it is poor in almost everything else. May be I did not flied it enough, so not enough expirience, but when I did I found it extremely boring plane. Well, I flied a lot against it. At least for spitfire IX it is not a trouble. I even have no problems with going away from it when I have it level with me.
Fariz
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p51 was good in the real world not in a sim (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
the situations here is more diffrent, we wont stay up for 4 hours in one sortie and get back alive (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (or if the points was diffrent for survivng we could do it that way )
We wanna kill somthing here and dont giva toejam aobut coming home lol.
what they could do is give a p51 more points for a kill than lets say a spit and so on .
airguard
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I find P-51 fairly maneuverable.
When I've made lots of kills in P-51 in a sortie, I have zoomed my opponent very far, unlike with Bf109 with in I have to break off because I can't pitch up enough.
For Spitfrie driver Fariz (r) it sure is boring to drive P-51 when it does not make some unbelievable maneuvers in the scale of Spitfrie IX.
Only plane that really can give me a headache when I fly P-51, is Bf109G10, thats the only plane which I really don't like to see around my P-51.
All it takes for smart 109 driver to kill P51, is to force 51 low and then vertically pick it off.
Though, I don't know about Yak-9 yet, it seems very capable plane what I have tried it, if not better than Bf109G10. (I sure love the way Yak flies)
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A G10 flown right can whoop a Yak9 in a co-alt engagement, yak cannot match the 109s zoom, speaking from experience of duels between me(Yak) and Citabria(G10). Yak can easily out-scissor G10 though, both vertically and horizontally.
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BEAT DOWN POSSE
www.theregulators.org/bdp (http://www.theregulators.org/bdp)
(http://pobox2.zyan.com/~nath/haha.jpg)
Aces High Scenario Corps
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 08-31-2000).]
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I think it is important to judge these planes in the context of their historical use and significance.
The Brits, in talking about the P-51, would jokingly say "Well....it can't do everything the Spit can do, but it can do it over Berline."
The P-51 is a beautifal aircraft. I like to think of it as a Dive-Fighter. Whereas in this game, where you up every 5 minutes, and often face foes in much more maneuverable aircraft, real life wasn't that way.
P-51's were desinged to be long-range figter escorts. They maneuver well at high altitude, they were one of the fastest planes of their day, and they carried an impressive arsenal and payload.
The picture of a wing of 6 P-51's flying about 4k higher than a whole bomber group sticks out well in my mind.
If a wing of 109's were to approach the group, the P-51's would simpyl dive on them, boom and zoom, and turn back for another pass to pick up whoever they didn't kill the first time.
I think that the P-51's E-loss is not entirely accurately modeled in the game. It seems to me that it is not sufficiently maneuverable at slower speeds, etc. But, I don't know, I trust that to the designers.
If your goal is to re-up again and again against oncoming attackers, then pick a spit, forget the p51. The p51 gave up some manueverability in exchange for an 8.5 hour fly time.
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Originally posted by BotaBing:
If your goal is to re-up again and again against oncoming attackers, then pick a spit, forget the p51. The p51 gave up some manueverability in exchange for an 8.5 hour fly time.
I'd really like to see them P-51Dweebs fightning with at minimum of 50% fuel and more (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
"like in real life"
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Originally posted by Fishu:
I find P-51 fairly maneuverable.
When I've made lots of kills in P-51 in a sortie, I have zoomed my opponent very far, unlike with Bf109 with in I have to break off because I can't pitch up enough.
Having terrible controls I flied spit last 4 months exclusivly as energy weapon. I could not enter dogfights, because I had much less chances against even less expirience pilots.
I am sure, that it is a big difference in flying planes with throttle/rudder pedals/good joystick vs. cheap 2 button stick without even view caps. So my expertise based only on my expirience. BUT I find g10 much better ride than 51, at least more interesting one.
I think when back I will give a try to 51 too for couple of weeks. But russian planes first (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), want try la5 and yak9.
Fariz
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<shakes head>
AKDejaVu, the REAL air war was not a big turn fighting furball.
Y'all could take a few lessons from that Stang pilot.
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Originally posted by brendo:
<shakes head>
AKDejaVu, the REAL air war was not a big turn fighting furball.
Y'all could take a few lessons from that Stang pilot.
Right on brendo..... <S>
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 09-01-2000).]
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Originally posted by Fariz:
I am sure, that it is a big difference in flying planes with throttle/rudder pedals/good joystick vs. cheap 2 button stick without even view caps. So my expertise based only on my expirience. BUT I find g10 much better ride than 51, at least more interesting one.
I hope to get throttle/rudder pedals someday too :I
Maybe newer stick too than CH f16 combatstick.
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Originally posted by Fariz:
I am sure, that it is a big difference in flying planes with throttle/rudder pedals/good joystick vs. cheap 2 button stick without even view caps. So my expertise based only on my expirience. BUT I find g10 much better ride than 51, at least more interesting one.
I did just that for 3 months <G>...the yoke I had had one button not working and a litte thottle. I now have F16combatstic and rudder pedals. THe difference is notable on the snapshots, but not THAT different (I am still using keys to change views). Sure it is comfortable to have WEP, autotrim on angle and rudder and elevator trims on the stick, but when I had the joke...er yoke (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I did as fine as I do now...
What is indispensable is a good set of RUDDER PEDALS...believe me, I had to buy them and the difference is incredible.
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Originally posted by Fishu:
I hope to get throttle/rudder pedals someday too :I
Maybe newer stick too than CH f16 combatstick.
Yeah, and I did not saw you in many dogfights, neither before, nor now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Fariz
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Ram....
It has been said that the 51 is not good for team fighting....not true.
A 51 and a spit are an excellent winged team.The spit turns em and the 51 burns em....did this for many years with old vets from AWDOS....works in AH as well...unfortunetly, not too much teamwork present here from what I can tell so far.
All the different planes are capable in the hands of a capable pilot...example: I flew last nite for one sortie...had six kills...was just north of 13 with high nme ib to 13....I got low and slo pulling for a shot before I was going to rtb...along comes Zigrat in a 51...I saw him in time to leave and was actually rtb when I saw him get low...I got greedy....missed him on my first pass...turned to rtb and guess what? He was 1.1 my six...did my best run away like a screamin girlscout but he eventually caught me.
Point? I was not to capable last night...not the 51's fault...it was mine. I know guys who can fly anything in this game and beat most folks on a regular basis....too much attention is given to the planes and not enough to the pilots who fly them.
Im Out!
[This message has been edited by Ice (edited 09-01-2000).]
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Originally posted by Fariz:
Yeah, and I did not saw you in many dogfights, neither before, nor now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Fariz
Only times when I saw you, were times when you were running some +30k high in Spitfrie..
Btw. I was surprised to find your Spitfrie fight at 2000ft (and you came in with about 10k advantage) and lower in the 1.03 as I were flying P-47D, guess who won (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I wonder whether P-47 is/was 'bit' overmodelled..
I do dogfight alot too...
In 109G-2 and C.205 dogfightning in furball is something cool (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But in FW190A-8, dogfightning isn't such great idea with nikis or spits...
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The MA is so contrived that you will hardly ever get anything resembling real life this means you can mooch around at 30k on your own picking off lone tragets without any danger to yourself. In a more realistic enviroment engagements wouldn't be on a 1v1 level they would be on a squad v squad level where it means if you get in trouble and you just put your nose down and run you have deserted your squad mated/ bombers making their odds worse.
The thing about the 51 was it could be near the bombers at all times that is why it is a great and descisve aeroplane.
If we had similar circumstances on a 1/2 size map the 51 would probably not be as potent as it is in the MA but still shine due it's stirling qualities.
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Originally posted by Fariz:
Yeah, and I did not saw you in many dogfights, neither before, nor now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Fariz
LOL now THATS funny (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I have spent 2 days in a row dogfighting with a P51 (and I managed to kill a Niki yesterday in a turnfight (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)), go figure what I do with a Fw190A5 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
BTW when I had the joke...err...joke, I was #2 in Ladder (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) fighting in 109G2s and C202s ;D
hehehehe
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-01-2000).]
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They key is energy and alt.. matters not what you have in your hands.. and not what you fly. If you have the alt/energy edge, you have the fight on your terms.. whatever those may be. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Some folks have their favorite birds FM pegged.. and understand exactly what needs to be done in the myriad situations that crop up against various adversary A/C. Thats skill and experience.. it's what makes Udie so deadly in his 190, Hblair a killer in his 109 and Torque an asssain in his hot Blue Bendover. Catch these guys at a disadvantage and you'll discover they not only have their FM's nailed, they have yours nailed too.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Pony's have no special lease on magical survival powers.. they are in most cases even more vulnerable than most of it's adversaries.. weak wings, porked radiators, poor snapshots and lousy accel all play hardball against the pony pilot in a furball. Entering a furball with a pony is an invitaion to a nylon letdown. Furballing is much more survivable in a Spit.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
FWIW; a Pony is NOT this sim's best plane.. unless you wanna camp out on top, and do just as AKdeja described... and even then all it takes is one slightly higher adversary to rain on his parade. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Heh, my typical approach to a furball:
"Eeek, lotsa enemies. Question one: is anyone higher than me? If yes, is he heading towards me? If so, can I blow by him, reverse and still live?
If I cannot, is there any target below me within reach? Goooooo fasssssst in shoot shoot shoot, check six, evade bullets, check inb higher enemies and see if ya got time to reverse, reverse, go fassssssssst in check six, bail out.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Originally posted by Hangtime:
FWIW; a Pony is NOT this sim's best plane.. unless you wanna camp out on top, and do just as AKdeja described... and even then all it takes is one slightly higher adversary to rain on his parade. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
Hang...
Query results:
ram has 40 kills and has been killed 13 times in the P-51D.
In 2 nights and 2 sorties tonight. 3 vulches and one M3.
And fighting in it,not running (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) And not exactly against newbies, believe me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Ram, out
Erg/JG26 homepage (http://users3.50megs.com/staga/ram/acesindex.htm)
I WANT THIS PLANE!!!!!!!
(http://www.airtel.net/hosting/0003d/ebringas/ram.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-02-2000).]
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Ram? Weren't you 17:3 in the P-51? Have you gotten worse? You've gone 23:10 since then.
Oh.. and 40:13 is almost identical to your kill percentage in a 190-a5. Once again.. the plane is not uber.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Ram? Weren't you 17:3 in the P-51? Have you gotten worse? You've gone 23:10 since then.
Oh.. and 40:13 is almost identical to your kill percentage in a 190-a5. Once again.. the plane is not uber.
AKDejaVu
Hehe...kept dogfighting it in 3 versus one figths all day long (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) sometimes I got all 3 cons DOGFIGHTING, most time not (hehehe hello Jihad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
But for sure I didnt run in ANY moment. I even died once when I had speed advantage on the C205 following me, but I turned to clear asmodan's six ( he was out of ammo with a spit in his six). I got the spit...but the C205 got me (hello, Warchild (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
Anyway a 3-1 K/D in any plane for me is great , as I am used to 2-1K/D the most. Take your own conclussions...I took mine's.
I have nearly 2.5K/D in 190A5, using it in the role it excells in, dogfighting.
I have 3K/D in P51D, using it in the role it "CANT" be used because "CANT" Turn a toejam and at low speeds is "HOPELESS".lol.
In the fight where I died at Jihad's hands,between A25 and A18 IIRC, I close fought with 3 cons for more than 3 minutes (much more imo, but seemed a lot of time anyway, was afun and absorbing fight indeed) before they got me, and ammo nearly payed for it (heheh hello, ammo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) as I put a burst on him before Jihad finished me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)...
And I died that way some or less 5 times,I REFUSED to disengage using the P51 main advantage ,the speed.So I died a lot in those fights...well in fact I won 2 fights like those (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) 3 on one (always the same way,I engage a low con and then 2 higher come and bounce me), and I won them twice. On a plane that can't do well in the defensive? LOL!.
Those two fights happened at A7 . THere was ,too where I sat down 2 bouncing 109s while I was low and slow, and nearly got one (that disengaged)in the scissor. But the other one pinged me well.
Still I managed to outturn that 109s for more than 1 minute low and slow with flaps gone, one aileron gone and rudder gone. No toejam that I ended augering, I cant turn well with no rudder corrections (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (jehu was that you?...dont recall it very well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)).
Heh AKS, If I had run all the times I had 2 or 3 cons on my six, and I refused to clear sixes when that meant sure death, I'd have easily 40-8 K/D or so.
But ,see I am a fighter, not a runner.
And I clear sixes <G>
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-02-2000).]
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Oh, an I nearly missed the point...
I agree, P51 isnt uber.I never stated it. Still it is the most effective arena fighter in Aces High, it is the best of all, hands down.
And he who says that P51 cant be used to dogfight ,stay in the fight, and win it, he has no damned idea on how to pilot it.(see I suck in all planes and I still have a 40-13 K/D dogfighting in it and not disengaging at all (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
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Still it is the most effective arena fighter in Aces High, it is the best of all, hands down.
Nope.. its not. You did well in it. Most do not.
As I recall... every time I saw you in it you had taken the time to climb to 20k and meet a substantially lower enemy over their base. I didn't see you below 10k unless you were "egressing" since you don't "run".
I guess you call that furballing and getting right into the fight. I don't.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by funked:
That's why in war and in scenarios, you try to fly the same plane as your teammates. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
In the book "Baa Baa Blacksheep" by Pappy Boington he tells of a mission where the 214 was to escort bombers and hvy p38's to Raboul. He said the mission was FUBAR from the start because the p38's were to fast too keep formation with the bombers and the f4u's were faster than the p38's. Alot of pilots got shot down that day because of it too.
Udie
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Nope.. its not. You did well in it. Most do not.
As I recall... every time I saw you in it you had taken the time to climb to 20k and meet a substantially lower enemy over their base. I didn't see you below 10k unless you were "egressing" since you don't "run".
I guess you call that furballing and getting right into the fight. I don't.
AKDejaVu
OK, calling all the people...Jehu, Warchild, Hitech, etc...pleaseee comeon....at wich altitude did I engage you? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) did I "egress"?
LOL!
Dejavu, you dont like me. Its okay, but please stop saying nonsense...yes I climb up to 20K in P51 IF I CAN (most times I cant), but I dont shudder If I must go to treetop level ,in fact I LOVE going to treetop level.
I'm still a 190 driver. And so, I love low level fights way more than high level one.
BTW you only saw me once in P51 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) and was much lower than 20 K (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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at wich altitude did I engage you
12k.. as you were just climbing from an engagement.
The next two times I saw you.. you came in at 20k with 3 other 51s. You guys only attacked single targets.. though most of you still went down. I tried to engage once while co-alt.. only to have the 51 fly away to engage someone once I was no longer a threat.
I don't have any problems with the use of these tactics. But then, I've never got sanctimonious in the forum about it either. The 190 and the p51 spend alot of time "extending". It seems to be called "running" whenever it happens to you.
That is what is called a double-standard. That is what makes you a hypocrite.
Dejavu, you dont like me. Its okay, but please stop saying nonsense
Just as soon as you stop calling everyone "HO DWEEBS!" and "runstangs" and whatever excuse you use for being killed. I'm quite tired of your holier-than-though attitude and the thought of you being any kind of a trainer actually worries me.
You don't have the aptitude or expecience to do it. Despite what you think of ourself.
I only know that if I knew as much when I was 22 as I thought I did... I'd be ruler of the world by now. I get the feeling you haven't quite realized that isn't going to happen for you either.
...yes I climb up to 20K in P51 IF I CAN
You see RAM.. this game offers two sides to everything. I know what I've seen you do... and everything else I have to hear about. Once it gets to that stage, it becomes extremely suspect. From some more than others.
AKDejaVu
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well you earned it. No more answers for you.
Still, I will do a P51 sortie tonight, and film it. Only one.And I'll post it. That way you'll see how do I fly it.
For now, I feel no need to argue with you. THe people who I have engaged know how do I fly. I wont lose my sleep for someone like you.
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Only one.And I'll post it.
Make sure you post the one that proves your point.. no matter how much sifting it requires.
AKDejaVu
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Then No film for you!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Originally posted by RAM:
LOL now THATS funny (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I have spent 2 days in a row dogfighting with a P51 (and I managed to kill a Niki yesterday in a turnfight (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)), go figure what I do with a Fw190A5 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
BTW when I had the joke...err...joke, I was #2 in Ladder (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) fighting in 109G2s and C202s ;D
hehehehe
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-01-2000).]
Yes, it is funny, considering that it was my reply to Fishu post, not yours one.
Fariz
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HUMPF!...Sorry I was suffering AKDejavutitis (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) That is a bad sickness that blinds the people (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hehe fariz I thought youwere talking about me and the new stick. Sorry again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I remember clearly three guys with who I have dueled more than once: camel, bytor and pirado.
With Camel I had few P-51 vs. 109 fights, though, I don't think we really had any rules, but can say it was dueling as we did it few times from about equal situation. (and I guess we also dealed those up a bit)
With Bytor I've had 109G10 vs. Spitfire IX, few times I had 20mm pods and also done spit to spit duel for once.. couple.. times.. i dont remember (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
With Pirado I took few C.205 fights with only 7mm guns, I did also film those.. those rare times I didn't forget (though, I *did* almost (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
So.. I have actually been dueling, Fariz
These guys shouldn't be bad sticks either.
Oh yeah.. I did sorta duel with Nath when I was trying Yak-9, twice on the same flight (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by RAM:
Oh, an I nearly missed the point...
Nearly???? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
The funny thing is challenge RAM on anything and it is "no film for you" or "no answer for you" or various dodges to the same effect. This guys is slicker than most politicians though not nearly as successful. I love how he points out the 51 is good for running but later says he fights and never runs.
Just pointing out the holes, dude.
Let's see a film, RAM - c'mon, make it a good one.
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Hehehe,yes, the hyena is funny (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LOL Santa!!
A shame yah gotta wade thru all that chaff above to get here..
Heh, my typical approach to a furball:
"Eeek, lotsa enemies. Question one: is anyone higher than me? If yes, is he heading towards me? If so, can I blow by him, reverse and still live?
If I cannot, is there any target below me within reach? Goooooo fasssssst in shoot shoot shoot, check six, evade bullets, check inb higher enemies and see if ya got time to reverse, reverse, go fassssssssst in check six, bail out. (St Santa)
Heeehehehhe.. EXACTLY! Only part missing.. 'Pick off engaged fighter on yer countrymates six on the wicked fast "screamin like a little girl"
egress towards the closest unengaged friendlies.' Works fer me; anyway. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Heheh yeh Hang, only prob is that I am supposed to do that AFTER I check six, find enemy there and bail (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I need to work on it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Stang ain't uber cause it ain't got cannon.
eskimo
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Well, this thread I interpreted as sort of a response to RAM's thread about the p51
He dinnae claim it was uber, he just claimed it wasn't as inferior as some paint it to be.
1v1 co alt co e merge vs an A8, I would rather be in the Pony. Same situation vs a G10, and I'd pick the G10.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Santa.. what about the same situation vs a spitfire.. vs an A5... vs a 38... vs an F4u-1c?
The truth is that the p51 has strengths and weaknesses just like any other plane in AH. Its strengths tend to get people out of trouble, but don't emphasize overall lethality.
Nobody is saying the P51 isn't a good ride.. simply that it is by no means the best ride in the arena. Reread this quote:
it is the best of all, hands down
I won't argue about prefering a p51 over an A8. It doesn't seem as if that was the main point. I will dispute anyone making the claim that the p51 will out-dogfight anything in the arena.
Remember.. most of this came about when someone pointed to a 68:0 record in the p-51 by a pilot. Someone else replied that they could do the same thing if they flew the p-51 instead of their A5. As it turns out.. they managed IDENTICAL statistics (2.9 k/d in a5 and 3.0 in P-51).
Once again. The p51 is not the best plane in the arena. What is? I surely don't know. Wich ever aircraft is the best is not to be demonstrated by my piloting skills.
Torque makes the F4u look like the best.
Ypsilon makes the P51 look like the best.
Citrabia makes the P38 look like the best.
Fariz makes the spit look like the best (spitdweeb (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)).
Aper makes the Bf109G-6 look the best.
The people are making the aircraft look uber. The aircraft aren't making the pilots look uber.
Time to get on with it.
AKDejaVu
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dejavu.
Man, how many times do I have to tell you!
The 190A8 is the best hands down (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
I agree with what you're saying but disagree with anyone who claims it ain't good.
I honestly consider it easier to survive and kill in than the A8, since it isn't as heavy and can disengage at will. In the A8 you're pretty much stuck with fighting it out in a co alt co e merge.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Is someone telling the ride, Fw190A-8 as bad, which in I made my longest streak ever?
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Beta was easy, Fishu, get that streak again in current MA.
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BEAT DOWN POSSE
www.theregulators.org/bdp (http://www.theregulators.org/bdp)
(http://pobox2.zyan.com/~nath/haha.jpg)
Aces High Scenario Corps
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 09-03-2000).]
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Yes i don't think you could do it either fishu. Come show us.
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Why couldn't I, I did streak already in WB and that wasn't beta..
As I tried Yak-9 few times in 1.03, I got up to 25-30 kills and without deaths, even though I weren't going for streak, but in other planes I did do alot groundpounding, so I don't know what would been the figures there if I wouldn't had done groundpounding..
and hey, Ypsilon does streaking still, even though P-51 is not as uber as it was (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Because... I tried it in yak and when I got to 40 kills I got suicide killed by a newbie who vulched me when i was landing with no fuel and another time when HT server dumped me and someone got kill. Now I'm 42/2 in yak...
HTC connection was better during beta (they need their T3s now), and there werent as many people playing, thus easier to avoid gangbangs and use your superior skill in 1v1s.
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Because... I tried it in yak and when I got to 40 kills I got suicide killed by a newbie who vulched me when i was landing with no fuel and another time when HT server dumped me and someone got kill. Now I'm 42/2 in yak...
HTC connection was better during beta (they need their T3s now), and there werent as many people playing, thus easier to avoid gangbangs and use your superior skill in 1v1s.
More people more victims (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Didn't see much difference to beta times as I flew there..
When theres just couple planes within 25 miles, they tend to be high, so some crowd is good.