Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wilbus on June 10, 2002, 10:10:22 AM
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Are they at all existant in AH in any plane???
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Yep, in the La7 ;)
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LOL!! :)
Well, actually, that's the unknown RATO ;)
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The Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9 and Ta152H-1 all have MW50 in AH. I'm not sure about GM-1.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Yep, in the La7 ;)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) LOL!!
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How do you enable MW50 in the D9, I'm dying to get better with it. I can only get about 325mph at 8k and not much faster high up.
Did D9 have GM1 in any versions?
Were GM1 and MW50 liquid or gas fuel?
Were GM1 and MW50 used in conjunction with the fuel or used
separately?
And finally, why do you drain the AFT tank to 25% first?
If anyone can answer my questions I'd be grateful
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Yes Kevin, the D9 had MW-50 boost, also in some testmachines GM-1 was added, but never used operational..
And to give you a better idea what MW-50 and GM-1 are i will give a short description:
MW-50: It means Water-Methanol, and the 50 simply means its 50% water mixed with 50% Methanol.
This mixture is injected into the engine together with the fuel. It enables the engine to run at higher boost pressure. This increases the poweroutput. Also the water cools the engine down and in this way allows to run the engine relativly long on the increased power.
GM-1: Its Stickoxyduhl (at least in german) or N²O. This was also injected together with the fuel. The main function of GM-1 boost was to ack as a Oxygen carrier. That means it should add Oxygen to the engine at high alt and so boost it power there. Power boost was linked to the injection rate of GM-1, the more was injected the more extra power the engine would give.
And about 325mph at 8K is that IAS(the white speed arrow) or TAS(the little red marker)?
You can use WEP in most planes, and the D9 features it too. I think default key is "p".
You drain the aft tank to 25% 1st to keep your CG "forward".
If you drain the forward tank 1st the CG moves aft and that destabilizes the D9 in loops and low speed moves.
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Hummm the MW50 do not really cool the engine, it cools the mixture and act as anti-knock. The engine get as hot with MW50 as with 110% WEP. As a side note the time between overhaul of a DB605ASM was just 12 hours due to the increased stress caused by the higher temperature experienced by the cylinders and pistons.
On a test bed with more than adequate cooling it was possible to run a DB605D with MW50 boost for as long as 10 minutes before sereve overheat caused engine trouble. In real planes the time was reduced to about 3 minutes due to inneficient cooling.
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Might be true for the DB605.
The JUMO213 was cleared for 10 minutes use of MW50 from the TAM (Technischer Aussendienst Motorenbau) in the D9.
But i think as with every Emergency Boost setting the pilot had to keep a sharp eye on the instruments, especially the engine temperature.
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Yes the DB605D was also cleared for 10 minutes but the engine blew up after just 4-5 minutes running with MW50... Discepencies between the constructor data and the realities of manufacturing during wartime with lower part quality than expected. It was probably the same with the 213.
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As i said, the pilot must have had a real sharp eye out for the engine temperature.
And as it gave engines that blew up after just 3 mins, others ran for much longer than the 10 minutes.
It is all about engine quality and luck.
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Who knows what bomber(s) was fitted with GM-1 :confused:
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Possibly the JU88, i know that some nightfighter variants used GM1 injection and if i remember right the JU88S (fast bomber) used GM1 also.
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Thx Naudet
I was thinking that some Nachtjäger carried that boost system but wasnt sure. My source says that Ju88 S-1 used BMW 801 G with GM1 boost (fuel tank was placed to rear part of bomb bay). Same source claims that GM1 was additional equipment at Me410 A1...
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Will check it out Zhivago.
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Thanks Naudet. So if I understand right every plane that has WEP uses MW50?. And does pressing P enable MW50?
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Not every plane uses MW50.
MW50 was a special water-methanol mixture. Only LW planes used the MW50 (atleast with that name although other countries used the same method). All planes that's got WEP (all fighter but teh Yak9U and A6M5 for what I remember now) can enable the WEP with P.
Not all use MW50 though but all WEP on all planes is limited and gives you extra power.
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What is interesting to note that the Fw-190 D9 could use emergency power as well. Naudet has the charts for the speeds and if memory serves me right 443 was the top speed a D-9 could hit with emergency power.
I think it would be a nice addition if we had instead of P maybe a key or hat switch for either MW-50 or Gm-1 and having a tank for those. Once they are gone they are gone until you re-arm. How about this for a solution?
What was acceleration rates for planes carrying these? Anyone know this?
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Hehe Sachs, the 443mph are for a D9 using C3 fuel and that has the ETC504 removed.
For AH i wish we had the following (which would fit for almost all D9s from Dec 44 till end of war.
When running full throttle in AH the engine should have an output of 1700-1750 PS.
With "P" you activate the power of 1900PS which was achieved just with a boost pressure increase. This might be keeped for up to 10 mins.
With an additional key (shift-P or whatever) you activate the MW-50 injection that gives you 2100PS. Also you drain from the MW-50 tank, so an additional "fuel" gauge is needed. You would have MW50 for about 40 minutes use onboard.
I never understood why noone ever models two types of WEP, should be no big deal. Just a second key stroke that adds another amount of extra power.
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Both Sachs and Naudets propositions are good, as it is now max power of our Dora is 1900 right?
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Do not forget that 109G-6 needs the MW50 to fill late 1943/early 1944 gap.
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Hristo,
Did the Bf109G-6 use MW50 in 1943? I searched and searched for evidence of it but was unable to find any. The earliest that I could find for MW50 use in the Bf109G-6 was 2nd quarter 1944.
Quite honestly, that was the single biggest reason that I stopped advocating 1943 as the ideal year for global WWII simulators. The Germans just weren't adequately competitve and the Japanese were marginal. Some of the aircraft that I concluded would make it into a 1943 centered model were thinks like:
F4U-1
F6F-3
P-38J
P-51B
B-17G (early version of the G)
TBM-3
Mosquito Mk VI Series 2
Spitfire LF.Mk IX
Lancaster Mk I
La-5FN
Yak-9T
Il-2-3M
Pe-2
Bf109G-6 (no MW50)
Bf110G-2
Fw190A-5
Me410A
Ju188A-1
C.205
S.M.79-II
A6M5
Ki-44-IIb
Ki-61-Ia
N1K1-J
B6N2
G4M2
As you can see, it allows interesting aircraft like the Bf110G-2, Me410A, Mosquito Mk VI and Pe-2 to be much more competitive because the super fighters haven't arrived. It also screws the Axis in both the fighter and bomber departments, particularly the Germans in the fighter department and the Japanese in the bomber department.
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Mosquitos used Nitrous Oxide. Snipped from documents provided by Neil Stirling:
(http://home.epix.net/~cap14/mossien2o.jpg)
lol ;)
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Hmm, I believe I remember Heinz Knoke mentioning recieveing MW50s for 109s in early 1944.
Hartmann mentions it too, but I don't know the date.
At work here, will check when I get home.
some quick links:
http://www.bf109.com/evolution.html
http://www.jg2.org/g6spit9.htm
http://games.1c.ru/il2/air/bf109g6a.htm
Note the DB605ASCM as a replacement engine for 109G-6. 2000hp at sea level ! ;)
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As far as i have been able to tell, MW50 was introduced to units in April 44, while some aircraft modified for use of MW50 were tested by operational units as early as october 43 (but it was just a handfull of aircraft).
The DB605ASCM never made it to production, since it was not possible to adjust the max boost setting as it was on the DB605ASC and the DB605DC. The introduction of those engines sealed his fate. But true some authors refer to the ASC as the ASCM but they are different engines.
The DB605ASC was designed as a replacement for the DB605DC if the later was not available, so it was only fitted to aircraft using those engine.
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as it is now max power of our Dora is 1900 right?
Wilbus, this can only be answered by HT.
As there is still a little controversy between HoHun and me, which speedcurve from the D9 Speedchart is reached by which powersetting. :)
HoHun would argue AH D9 is a 1900PS machine, while i think it is a 2100PS one.
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OK :)
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Bf 109G-6/AS would be great.
When it came to front line units?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Hristo,
Did the Bf109G-6 use MW50 in 1943? I searched and searched for evidence of it but was unable to find any. The earliest that I could find for MW50 use in the Bf109G-6 was 2nd quarter 1944.
Quite honestly, that was the single biggest reason that I stopped advocating 1943 as the ideal year for global WWII simulators. The Germans just weren't adequately competitve and the Japanese were marginal. Some of the aircraft that I concluded would make it into a 1943 centered model were thinks like:
F4U-1
F6F-3
P-38J
P-51B
B-17G (early version of the G)
TBM-3
Mosquito Mk VI Series 2
Spitfire LF.Mk IX
Lancaster Mk I
La-5FN
Yak-9T
Il-2-3M
Pe-2
Bf109G-6 (no MW50)
Bf110G-2
Fw190A-5
Me410A
Ju188A-1
C.205
S.M.79-II
A6M5
Ki-44-IIb
Ki-61-Ia
N1K1-J
B6N2
G4M2
As you can see, it allows interesting aircraft like the Bf110G-2, Me410A, Mosquito Mk VI and Pe-2 to be much more competitive because the super fighters haven't arrived. It also screws the Axis in both the fighter and bomber departments, particularly the Germans in the fighter department and the Japanese in the bomber department.
IF I read this correct, this is a 1943 planeset? If so, the P-51B shouldn't be there, and the p-47D should be there. Not so sure the P-38J should be there also, but I am not sure. Was the Ki-44 active in that year too?
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Originally posted by illo
Bf 109G-6/AS would be great.
When it came to front line units?
Not sure but i think in spring 1944...
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-ammo-,
The P-51B entered active service in December 1943, and thus squeaked in. You are right, the P-47 should be there too. It was not intended as a complete list. I'm pretty sure the P-38J was in service in 1943, if not it'd be out of the list a replaced by a P-38H. The information that I have seen indicates that the Ki-44IIb was active in 1943. Mitsu would know more I think.
It was the lack of a really good German counter to the P-51B/Spitfire LF.Mk IX and La-5FN that really put a damper on my idea.
An MW50 equipped Bf109G-6 would have been what I was looking for, but I couldn't find evidence of one before 1944. That seems to have been backed up by guys who know more about the 109 in this thread.