Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kronos on June 12, 2002, 01:55:29 PM
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My thoughts, having flown with them for awhile.
Yes, bishops have larger numbers than everyone else. This helps them maintain a stable 2-front war, but does not give them the success that they have had. Indeed, there were times when bishops outnumbered both knights and rooks by a large amount, and still lost bases on a consistent level.
bishops I have noticed, do one thing more consistently than any other country. They participate in Missions. Flying against bishops, I have noticed time and time again the standard tiffie raids that they produce. Their missions are simple, and easy to operate. They have individuals that have been around AH for a long time, and have flown bishops for most of that, so everyone knows them, and will follow them in a mission.
Knights used to do this aswell, and Ripsnort still does do some good missions, however, I think Ripsnort has been grounded in RL much more recently. (not sure) I haven't noticed as many missions coming from Knightland lately, although, I too haven't been flying asmuch as I would like.
People would argue that one of the reasons bishops missions are a success is because they have more people, therefore more will join. This is not the case. The mission simply has to be against the right target at the right time. I once (a long long time ago) ran a successful lanc raid against both the City (when there was only one) and the Radar installation of a country, coordinating them both at the same time. We had 8 lancs, no fighter cover, and just alot of good timing.
Anyway, to make a long story short, MISSIONS are a primary key to taking bases, and resetting an enemy. Make missions, participate in them, and quite possibly, you too could win.
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I don't consider fighting over scraps "success".
lazs
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If bishops do these missions while outnumbered 2:1 and succeed, I'll call it a success..
The fact is that it's extremely hard to find people who will join a mission if they're all tied up in a 2:1 fight.
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bishops I have noticed, do one thing more consistently than any other country. They participate in Missions. Flying against bishops, I have noticed time and time again the standard tiffie raids that they produce.
dont u mean those bad AK base steals? knights are the masters at that.. can do it with 2 people (no offence) ;)
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The fact is that it's extremely hard to find people who will join a mission if they're all tied up in a 2:1 fight.
I wondered how long it would be before the "broken record" hopped in here. :rolleyes:
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Thanks zeroping, I needed a good laugh........ :p
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Originally posted by Kronos
They have individuals that have been around AH for a long time, and have flown bishops for most of that, so everyone knows them, and will follow them in a mission.
Every Country has "Lifers", I for one have never flown Knights or Bishops. If I am wrong, then it was during my 2 week trial. Some "Lifers" are just more active than others.
Matter of Fact, It would be interesting to see a list of all the players who have never changed countries in MA.
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Sling nobody asked you anything, if you have nothing to comment on the issue on the topic, don't.
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People keep talking about Rooks, Knights and Bishops. On my screen all I see are reds and greens. I shoot the reds.
Hooligan
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Yeah...and your comments were so on topic, eh MrRipley?
Sounded more like a back-handed gangbang whine to me.
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Sling if someone claims numbers have nothing to do with mission joining and I claim otherwise, that's dead on the topic. You however have no other input besides whining about what I choose or choose not to say.
Get lost.
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To say it fairly, to a certain extent I agree with Kronos. But in another aspect, some of the reason behind why many people participate in missions is itself not entirely independeant of numbers - or, the size of squads to be more precise.
Now, this is not meant to belittle the squadrons in Bishops. They are good pilots with great organization. However, gathering up 20 individuals in a single mission is way harder than a 10 man squad forming up a mission and gathering 10 more individuals. Besides, the generous numbers of Bishops allow a lot of people relatively "free" to pursue missions, while some other countries have every single one of their pilots pressed to local defense.
I guess you can say it's sort of the anatomy of totality. The more numbers you begin with the more numbers you attract, the less numbers you begin with and attract even less. When a well-known and successful squad puts up a mission, many people will come. Or, when someone makes a mission and prominent squad members decide to join, people will follow. On the other hand, when a 3 man squad posts a mission in a losing country, not many people are inclined to join, and sometimes, having mission fun becomes simply a "luxury" one can only dream of, since some countries in some situations are pressed to defend a certain startegic location against 2 to 1 odds.
In a sense, victory and organization, and total numbers play a part in the vicious circle of mission madness :) And I do admit I envy the better off countries with a lot of good missions going on.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Now, this is not meant to belittle the squadrons in Bishops. They are good pilots with great organization. However, gathering up 20 individuals in a single mission is way harder than a 10 man squad forming up a mission and gathering 10 more individuals. Besides, the generous numbers of Bishops allow a lot of people relatively "free" to pursue missions, while some other countries have every single one of their pilots pressed to local defense.
This one is not correct. It were much more missions made by bishops when nits were the dominant force in the arena, and during this time bishops kept to win 3 of 4 resets only due to beeing focuses. I used to gather 15 people missions with 30 bishops online -- there is no other coutry where you can do anything like that, and hardly it were 2-3 people from a same squad there.
More than that, we used to make a mission runs, so every mission were a part of plan, and every capture were just one step toward goal.
Actually, I am more than sure, that number inballance we witness last 3 months is created by our efforts, to be more precise it started when we won 11 reset streak while still not dominant force. After that numbers ballance were broken, and bishops got the numbers, and every win only made it worse.
I personally make very few missions now, because there is no much need for them, due to numbers, and also I am waiting for numbers ballance to be better. I prefer bishops to be the second largest force again, this make game more interesting.
Fariz
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Cant say about bishorcs vs knights, but I rarely see a real bishorc mission against rookland, all I see is an horde after another. Sooner or later the few defenders need to retreat and fight just over his bases, each time lower and lower, sooner or later some buff makes into the base perimeter to kill the resources and radar, sooner or later another one will close the base and so on. All I see is a typical attrition war where the numbers rule. Even worse, when the outnumbered side is being vulched over its own fields, some genious go always to kill also the HQ.
Yesterday numbers at 23:00 GMT-1 were 122B, 60R, 65K when the gangbang started. Some bishes and knights were commenting in the general buffer about crushing the rooks as fast as possible to get rid off the Mindanao map and then bishorcs started to push from W, N and S and knights from E.
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Right on Kweassa, couldn't agree more.
Focussing on sneak attacks now. Remember the Bish A35 sneak capture by knits last weekend, was awsome. Immediately afterwards we got A36 and A37, was a good tactical move that reduced the pressure from Bish somewhat.
:)
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see mandobles thread
bishop key to success = overwhelming mediocrity
quantity has a quality of its own
I have films of 10-20 typhie and spits coming and gang banging a virtually abandoned field. 1/2 of them are there to committ suicide and decide that ramming the the acks with their planes is the best course toward "success" :)
But hey they get the "capture" so i guess its a "success".
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Success is having fun not pretending being a fighter pilot in front of a computer.
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A horde's idea of fun is killing it from others.
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As a Rook and having only flown Rook, I can say that I do not need to fly Bishop to see the difference in the 2 countries. I see them pouring into my fields at all Alts with C47, Air and Ground support.
Having stated the above, I dont know how the other 2 countries work when it comes to posting missions. But I have a pretty good idea how it works with the Rooks.
Being Australian, and on leave from work (yippee), Ive been fortunate over the last few weeks to fly in both Euro and American timeframes varying in numbers from 50 to 450. In Rookland when a minority of known names post a mission (Im talking a maximum of 5 names!), people flock to join them.
When relatively unknown names post a mission or dare post a mission when another is being run by one of the known 5, the unknown Rooks mission whilst equally important and no doubt just as good, goes ignored and he/she is lucky to get 2 or 3 planes. No disparity on this select group. They make great missions. But no greater than anyone else can make.)
Rooks appear to have a certain number of people who will clamber to any mission going. As an avid mission flyer myself, I see the same names virtually every time.
I've been asked to pull my own missions off the roster so that anothers mission has large numbers. These missions offer numbers of pilots, far in excess of whats required and other missions that could run sequencely alongside them are aborted as the battle for mission numbers rages over the Country channel.
Its quite a ridiculous situation. I no longer post missions outside those involving my own Squadron. Rooks are a one mission at a time country which costs it, everytime they need it.
Tho I fly for Rooks and have only ever flown for Rooks, They can be as dumb as dog sh*t at times :( and more often and not deserve to lose simply due to poor planning and a lack of will to change from the defensive to the offensive when needed the most.
Most Rooks seem to prefer furballing which is ok by me. Its their $14.95 US a month. But it wont win maps.
(I have seen Rooks get their act together and it is a totally different country to fly for. Unfortunately the Bish do it better . Perhaps it is a numbers thing. :()
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straffo, it is hard to have fun when you are totaly blinded and can't hardly take off from any your fields with more than 25% of fuel.
Obviously, the duck hunting must be extremely fun for the bishorc hordes.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
A horde's idea of fun is killing it from others.
Your idea of fun is being like a LW pilot in 1945
J/K ;)
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
straffo, it is hard to have fun when you are totaly blinded and can't hardly take off from any your fields with more than 25% of fuel.
Obviously, the duck hunting must be extremely fun for the bishorc hordes.
I know that feeling I recall some beta tour with 7 bish being gang banged by the knit crook alliance (27 player online !!: D)
But as I said previouly there is nothing that can't be cured by either a video or a good book :)
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Situation now as I write this..
Guess which country ONLY bish is attacking? Hint: rooks are capturing empty bish fields in a milkrun.
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well... the dildo worshipers do tend to clump but..
you guys are making it sound like they are incapable of independenat thought.
lazs
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Originally posted by straffo
But as I said previouly there is nothing that can't be cured by either a video or a good book :)
totally agree with you. But when you are a very limited time asigned to AH and that time is as described above over'n over, the conclussion is that, unless massochistic, you better close your account to AH and buy more books and videos ;)
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yes numbers do have a sayin in mission planning.....your stupid if ya think otherwise. simple
but Fariz did point out something interesting.....BISH play this game too WIN MAPS!!!!
KNIGHTS play too have FUN!!!
ROOKS are STUPID!!!!!:eek:
to quote SCSPOOK: "They can be as dumb as dog sh*t at times "
end quote:D
SLO :cool:
4WING=441 Silver Fox=
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Amazing logic taking place here.
Just imagine this
Play any other game that you can think of with half of the peices.
Chess, checkers, poker, yatzee??
How many do you think you would win?
I don't think I have been in a winning map reset in 6 months. And honestly I really don't care.
But I still can't believe Bish are bragging.:rolleyes:
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sometimes bish mission flyers are pathetic. i remeber upping at a field beeing vulched by a mission and receiving 4 proximity kills before i could get my gear up... those times make it worth to try to defend even in extreme situations ;)
what are missions good for anyway? syncronized take off times and a common channel for all working on the same goal, or am i missing something?
just pick a channel, and with the room voice display you can even see with whom you're waiting in the tower for take off. but, almost nobody does. is it different in knit- and bishland?
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knits have their own share of gangbang planners.
Seems a waste use the mission planner just to get 20 guys to overwhelm 1 base.
you could put together a whole campaign with multiple missions supporting each other. Especially if your team always has the "numbers". Sending 30 guys to rape one base after another isnt what im talking about either.
I used dig missions but they are really pointles the now with ahv.
The last mission I joined was actually a 2 mission strike, each in support of the other.
110s to level a9 we had 10.
190f8s to take out a10 there was 6.
enroute a 51 buzzs our 110s I took off after it so did two others. one guy augers the other gets killed by the 51. I killed the 51 and returned to the formation. I spot another con and kill it. I manage to keep my ord and headed to 9. Some of the f8 guys got confused and instead of hitting the vbase at a10 they hit the vh at a9.
I get over 9 to see 3 110s ride their bombs into the city. so far out 10 110s we lost 5. 2 get killed by field ack while tyring to drop bombs on the ack. Well they each got 1 ack. :rolleyes:
Me and 2 other 110s deck the field and i kill dar and a bh. After that I spot a few more of the 190f8s which had diverted from a10 to a9 to vulch never killing the vbase at a10. Well there was nothing to vulch at 9 but and we capture it. I rearm thinking 10 is ded and hear reports of a goon 1 min out 10. The nme cv is nw 9 so i head east to grab. I look back toward the town at 9 and see 9 nme gvs rolling into the town.
The goon that was ib 10 types out in caps ack and vh up 10 and he dies. I come back around to hit the gvs at 9s town and watch whats left of the "mission" all die to the gvs. I see 3 m3s all letting out troops and drop my ord (2 x 500kg and 4 x 50kg) on them killing a bunch but not enough. 9 is recaptured.
I look around and im the only left. 15 guys in a mission and I am the only survivor.
Swore off missions after that. They are for the herd.
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Well, if you think so, I stand corrected, Fariz :)
But seriously, though there may be some differences, I don't think there's any sort of general 'quality' issues of average pilots in any country. Kronos pointed out he saw a lot of mission participants when he was with Bish.. I don't really think all the other pilots in us Rooks are incompetent or don't understand the usefulness of missions so they do not join. I was sort of looking for an obejctive reason to why - if what Kronos say is true - some country will love to put up missions, and some not. I guess finding the reason in numbers seemed the easiest answer to me. ;)
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I would like to hear Sling's opinions on the subject.
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Rooks won the reset today so enough complaining already geez
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I agree with Kronos.
Numbers do NOT matter.
Organization will kick butt on a disorganized mob every time.
My squad proves this point time and time again, every time we run a mission.
It doesn't take 50 to 100 guys to be in a mission to be effective.
On Sunday, we had one of our guys JABOing the Bishop's barracks at four bases to prevent them from capturing any more, while the rest of us, about 7, re-captured a base they took from us.
Tuesday, the Bish and Rooks were sucessful in the early evening in steaming rolling several of our bases. Wham bam-thank-you mam. They caught us by surpise - to them for being organized.
Rather than fight a defensive war - which in AH, WB, and AW always means you'll loose... ALWAYS - it's just a matter of time.
We, the Damned, went on the offensive - because attacking is the only way to win in air combat.
Shortly other squads, like the MAWs, were also organizing mission and having success.
In a matter of a few hours, we had kicked the Bishops back to where they started and then we took the southern-east Pensula away from the Rooks.
We were out numbered and fighting two fronts.
Instead of fighting stupid - we fought smart.
That's how you play and win this game.
So you numbers whiners STFU and get with the program.
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Muhah, how much were you outnumbered? 10%?
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Bish had 175, we had about 118, rooks about 78
Something like that, numbers varied through out the night.
Number whiners are weak and don't have what it takes to win.
So, please whiners move to Bish or Rooks. the Knights don't need you.
You'll see my name in the text buff when I shoot you down from the midst of your numbered hord - and that will only go to prove you are still a looser even with numbers to your advantage.
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There's one saying that describes your condition perfectly Dmdnexus but I'll save it up untill you grow older, maybe 15 years old.
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Originally posted by Kronos
bishops key to success-not a flame
Hmm... so much for that.
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MrRiplEy,
Oh did I hit a nerve?
I don't like whiners. I guess that's my military background showing.
Instead of confronting chalanges and overcoming them, whiners make excuses why they can't and cry for someone else to change things so they can.
I've been playing online flight sims for nearly 22 years, since 88 with AW on Genine.
There were three countries then, there are three countries now, and the numbers never have been even.
Number whiners have come and gone, and the numbers are still not even.
At the end of the day, ask your self are you better than you were yesterday?
Did you learn something today - or did you just sit on your butt and whine like a baby becuase the other side had more people flying for them and it's not fair - that's why I lost.
Ever heard of the expression, you may loose the game, but don't loose the lesson.
You might want to try using your gray matter, and organizing some missions, and proving that numbers don't matter.
Those of us who have been around awhile, know, it's not the plane, it's not the numbers, it's not the country, it's the individuals and their ability.
And if you whine, that's just a sign that you are a looser. You are letting everyone else know you can't deal with the situation. You've given up. You need someone else to help you.
Hopefully, you will realize, some day, when you grow up, some situations you can not change and you'll just have to over come them or be a looser.
And you can take that to the bank.
Kronos' first post is right on. Read it. Try it. Learn something.
Have a nice day.
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What is your MA id dmdnexus?
You sound like a superb player who could beat the whole arena 10:1 at any time.
Next time knights are down to 6 players vs 47 bish, I'll invite you there to show how you make your mission and capture a field from them. That'll convince me.
And btw I've been fighting and winning at 2:1 odds for the past 6 months in the MA so I'm not just whining and doing nothing.
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Oh... is your Estrogen rising?
Do you feel the need to compensate for the lack of real world achievement and self esteem by bantering with others on the internet?
What other "virtual-creditials" do you have?
I doubt you'll impression me.
But please... go on.
Go ahead hijack this thread with your whiney slack-jawed dribble.
or...
you might want to pull your head out of your as$ - so you can hear what others are saying, and give some of these comments some thought.
You might want to shut up, and try what Kronos, myself, and others have suggested are ways to overcome numbers and win this game.
You just might learn something...
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Funny that you mentioned hormones..
Because the saying that came to my mind reading your previous banter was 'more balls than brains.'
No, nexus, you didn't manage to irritate me. You make me smile.
Btw: You didn't mention your arena ID.. scared?
Ass is spelled ass, not as$ ,scared?
Come on, if you talk big walk the walk. :)
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There are plenty of Knits that put up missions. Unfortunately, the majority of them are posted by folks that are a truck load of clues short of an answer. Currently, there are only about 3 or 4 folks who's missions I would care to join (outside squad stuff). The situation does seem to be improving though, as more Knits gain more experience.
As for Bishup supremacy...though I hate to admit it, numerous times in the last few months I have watched as the Knits 'assist' the Bish in winning a reset. I have tried many times to explain that there is only one winner in a reset. The other 2 are both losers. What I usually hear when I ask for help against a Bish onslaught is "the best defense is a good offense". If FDR had been a Knit when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor...he would have captured Toronto and declared victory!! :D
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strat in this game is pointless always has been always will be from what i can see.
bish have had the numbers since beta with small variences. probly because htc guys flew bish mostly and bellybutton kissers love to do what they do best .
every time i have logged on in the last month with one exception bish have been overwelming in numbers. so i dont log on much anymore. also people have begged for 2 sides for 2 years and nothing. face it this game is a reverse engineered copy of air warrior with inferior strat and a better flight model. people who reverse engineer dont generaly do much that is creative this game is no exception.
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Originally posted by Apar
Focussing on sneak attacks now. Remember the Bish A35 sneak capture by knits last weekend, was awsome. Immediately afterwards we got A36 and A37, was a good tactical move that reduced the pressure from Bish somewhat.
:)
yeah, when i'm in the mood to roleplay as napoleon, i try to hit relatively quiet, but close by, targets to ease pressure off some other area (and grab a base or 2 to get some momentum). all i ever ask for is 2 or 3 people. :D
sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
There are plenty of Knits that put up missions. Unfortunately, the majority of them are posted by folks that are a truck load of clues short of an answer. Currently, there are only about 3 or 4 folks who's missions I would care to join (outside squad stuff). The situation does seem to be improving though, as more Knits gain more experience.
As for Bishup supremacy...though I hate to admit it, numerous times in the last few months I have watched as the Knits 'assist' the Bish in winning a reset. I have tried many times to explain that there is only one winner in a reset. The other 2 are both losers. What I usually hear when I ask for help against a Bish onslaught is "the best defense is a good offense". If FDR had been a Knit when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor...he would have captured Toronto and declared victory!! :D
Actually, FDR is a good example of "the best defense is a good offense." We island hopped all the way to Japan.
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Island hopping was McArthur's strategy, and that was an offensive strategy.
McArthur was smart enough to know what was strategically important - and he attacked it. He realized he needed to establish staging bases close to Japan in order to invade it and end the war.
A defensive stragety is what the French did with the Maginal line. And what did the Germans do? They went around it through the Arden emplying their Blitz Krieg.
The island hopping is simliar in stragety in that the plan was to go around the enemies strong points and destroy their logistics.
And what happened to the French? They got occupied because they fought defensively.
Now was the Battle of Britain Defensive or Offensive?
Did the Brits go up and attack anything they saw? No.
They specifically ignored the fighters and engaged the bombers.
RADAR allowed the Brits to pick and choose their fights.
Their pilots had the balls to fight against what?
OVERWELMHING NUMBERS
Did their pilots whine like little sissy girls because the numbers were not fair? No!
They fought smarter. That's why they won.
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Yes, the Bishops have the majority of players most of the time. But there are plenty of times the other countries happen to have more on a given night or time. Or there are times when they don't get a reset due to a miscue or work done by the other country. Last night was a good example. Bishops could have reset Knights if we didn't push the Rooks north and keep up the number of bases.
Even with higher numbers, you can't win a reset without organization and the willingness to win the reset. It also has to do with having some STRATEGIC sense about this game. Many times I or someone would fly a buff only to find a high alt fighter waiting for them. At the same time I've seen buffs fly in from other countries unmolested because there is no high cap.
I know of times when a few of us M.A.W. were on and we would try to organize a mission but alot of the players on at the time were not interested. In fact I had someone tell me one time that he was there for fun and didn't want to capture anything. There's the rub.
Some fly AH just for fun or points and could care less who wins. They are not in a squad or are in a small squad. I'm sure all the countries have them. They're flying high when they need to be under radar or they kill all the fuel and troops so it can't be used after a capture. They're mostly (but not all) the immature kids that are flying.
The rest know what this flight sim is all about which is capturing bases and getting a reset. I have noticed that the Bishops not only have numbers but have the leadership and organization it takes to win. We may not like it but we have to >Salute< how it's done. ;)
(http://t2maw4.homestead.com/files/F4banner.jpg)
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Nexus I think I know what fighting against odds in ww2 is, I'm a finn.
You still missed that part with your ID though.
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this aint a war nexus nothing is won by reseting it starts right over.
A lot of folks just logged in to get a few kills and dont care for "base hoping".
See mandobles post that shows k/d for all 3 countries last tour.
Rooks had a higher k/d so in theory they earned more perks per kill. So one can imagine then actually earning more perks defending then they would by resetting the arena.
I know i usually earn more from defending.
But Bish k/d was lowest. I submit that that is a result of the suicide mission gang bangers.
10 ack at a field they have 10 guys in their mission who will kill themselves to get umm.
Thats not organization or strategy. Thats sheep mentality. The reason a lot of bish join mission could be do to the fact theres nothing else for them to do. Except chase each other around fighting their country mates for a kill.
The last base cap i went on was with 3 of my guys we took 4 bases in 45 min. None "sneaked" or defenseless or gang banged.
How you have fun is your choice but its a bit rediculous to come and claim "bish are better" in anything but strength in numbers.
Nexus might be one them napolean types who defines "organization" and "team work" by how many folks fly how he expects.
You want "team work" call and clear your country mates 6, learn to drag and know what planes your country mates are flying. Theres no sense of team with out a foundation.
The way I play my squad is my "team" the rest is meaningless.
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As to being out-numbered. Yeah, it is frequently a pain in the neck. However, there is usually no lack of enemy, so it's anything but boring. I believe that the Rooks need to organize better on a daily basis, not only for RJOs. If more pilots would volunteer to CAP the HQ, we would not find ourselves blind half of the time. Frankly, I'm getting tired of doing it. One or two fighters isn't enough to kill off 5 B-17s, and sometimes roving hordes of bombers make a pass over the HQ. Indeed, if the Rooks (Bish and Knits too) established an informal squad-based BARCAP, it would go a long way towards solving this problem. A different squad assumes the duty each night. This way, you would only get stuck with this duty a few times a month. Hey, why not?
I've watched some of those huge Tiffy missions fall apart in dramatic fashion. A few evenings back, a monster mission began launching from a Bish field on the west side of the map. A Buff driver called it in. I was about 20 miles away in my Yak, and along with 4 other pilots, headed over to harass the horde. Upon arriving over the huge gaggle of Tiffies, 110s and Mossies, we rolled in from their high 6. At least 9 of the enemy (estimated at 25-30 in number) went down. When I ran out of ammo, I made mock attacks until fuel became an issue. Meanwhile, the Rooks had an equally large reception waiting for the attackers, most well above the scattered horde. Within minutes, the attack was crushed. Not a single Bish made it to the target field.
This was a case of poor planning in my estimation. There were dozens of Rooks airborne between the takeoff and target fields. Furthermore, there was a fully operational Rook field just a few miles to the east. Those big raids can be devastating, as long as they are not met by equal numbers with the advantage of altitude. This raid was doomed from its inception. At the very least, the launch field was far to close to target field.
My regards,
Widewing
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ripley,
Don't even put your self into the same class as the veterans of WWII.
You have no idea what it is like - which proves, like so many of your other comments, your bellybutton and your mouth are interchangeble - they produce chit.
Wontan,
I said nothing about resets, the bish being better, or making people fly a certain way.
Reread the thread - You are mistaking me with viking73's comments.
My comments relate to people who whine about numbers.
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Question: I heard on one of these post once that the reason bish had more numbers is because when new players join they are by default put into the arena as bish. Anyone know if that's true?
If it is it seems like it would be easy enough to fix. Change the default each tour.
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Originally posted by Hooligan
People keep talking about Rooks, Knights and Bishops. On my screen all I see are reds and greens. I shoot the reds.
Hooligan
I'd shoot alot of the greens but my wings fall off.......:(
LLB OUT!!!!!
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Well, if you think so, I stand corrected, Fariz :)
But seriously, though there may be some differences, I don't think there's any sort of general 'quality' issues of average pilots in any country. Kronos pointed out he saw a lot of mission participants when he was with Bish.. I don't really think all the other pilots in us Rooks are incompetent or don't understand the usefulness of missions so they do not join. I was sort of looking for an obejctive reason to why - if what Kronos say is true - some country will love to put up missions, and some not. I guess finding the reason in numbers seemed the easiest answer to me. ;)
It is all about people, who can (and want) to make good missions. If people knows someone's mission will be succesful and not borring -- they will join.
Numbers does matter, but people used to overweight the factor of numbers. 3 people in ki67s can completly change all the strat by hitting 1 country front fields fuel. As I said knights had number advantage for about 6 months -- they not only won more, but actually were the side which lost more resets than 2 others.
Fariz
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Ok I can't stop myself ........
First to be up front - I'm a Bish
While I can't agree with kronos' post about Bishes winning through missions I certainly don't agree with the whining (and that's what it is) about numbers.
I Classic example occured a couple of weeks ago - and Turbot can confirm this.... Bishes had superior numbers and Knits down to 3 bases... 85% of all bishes were busily bombing the remaining Knit airfields to oblivion when a few of us noticed Rooks had taken out all our fuel etc on our Rook frontline ...... then started a march of Rook missions which took 6 bases from us in less then 2 hours while 15 or so of us cried for help and got shotdown :). Very shortly after Rooks took the lead in fields a none to popular bish dropped the last load of troops on a Knit filed and Rooks won the reset....... I'm sorry Turbot but it was funny - really. Rooks played a blinder of a strategy and won with inferior numbers.
I have also been on the receiving end MANY MANY times of a combined Rook Knit offensive which, although we had similar numbers to each other country, when teamed against we were out numbered 2:1 - thats the nature of 3 country structure.
In terms of missions it sounds like Bishland has about the same experience as the others - a few well known names create successful missions while the others are ignored - hint to other countries - check if Fariz is online, if he is then Bishes will be in big missions :D
Wotan - these suicide mission flyers - I'm one of them - I like flying with others but I just suck and so the ack often gets me. You are a very well known and competent flyer and you gain my respect for that but please don't get on my case about drilling craters in your airfields - some of us just aren't as good - but it is only a game .....
Lastly MrRipley ........ :( ...... when are you EVER[/i] going to get over this numbers thing. Whenever I log on and you are on you are always always always moaning about the numbers. Unless Rooks have parity between the combined numbers of Bish and Knits you are not happy. Please please get over it ... oh and HO's as well........ . And before you challenge me to a duel you can beat me and always have since i first came across you in H2H but I don't really care about that - its a game. MrRip - the people I respect are the ones who turn the tide by thinking and skill - people like Whels, ts, Ripsnort, and many others who I see after "you've been killed by.."
Sparks
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Deja vu - "a couple of weeks ago" - this happened today and got me frustrated enough to quit playing and start reading these boards. Sometimes not having the numbers gives you the advantage of playing as a team for a single cause, instead of having to split forces between those with tunnel vision and those trying to win the war.
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Wotan - these suicide mission flyers - I'm one of them - I like flying with others but I just suck and so the ack often gets me. You are a very well known and competent flyer and you gain my respect for that but please don't get on my case about drilling craters in your airfields - some of us just aren't as good - but it is only a game .....
Dont gimme too much credit i suk as well.
my point is that mission and "organization" all sound great. But in reality it more just the case a mass attacks against very limited defensives. This gets reproduced over and over. It may be effective but it hardly can be considered a sign of genuin "strategy".
My point about folks dieing in missions isnt to show how better "skilled" another person is in surviving or the lack of "skill" because some dies. Its more a matter of will then anything. From what I there very little will to survive. Folks riding their ord all the way in spraying like mad, knowing they will auger, as long as they get 1 ack.
country k/d some what supports this. The bish had numbers last tour and had a greater opportunity to vulch so you would expect a higher k/d. However, we see the opposite and from my own observation of those large missions is that a good chunk auger in.
just mho
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Originally posted by Apache
Actually, FDR is a good example of "the best defense is a good offense." We island hopped all the way to Japan.
Apache...
You totally missed my point. A good offense against a wrong or useless target is as pointless as no defense at all.
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Dmdnexus who ever said I did?
You're the self-boasted military hero here.. LOL.
I've never seen such a comical appearance on a UBB before.
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Yep... organized gangbanging is nothing but gameplay killing. Mission planning is most often nothing more than a clumsy brute force frontal assault with huge casulties. Look at the dildo boys K/D... They will sacrafice 8 typhoons to kill one FH and wreck gameplay.. How this can be "fun" for them is beyond me.
lazs
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Yesterday night was a good example of "bishop's key of success". They were outnumbering us only by 10% and they were spanked to the limit, their "missions" defeated and their fields conquered one after another.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Apache...
You totally missed my point. A good offense against a wrong or useless target is as pointless as no defense at all.
I missed your point by design, you mean ol' Texan.
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Ripley,
"who ever said I did?"
You implied it in the following statement.
"I know what fighting against odds in ww2 is, I'm a finn."
Once again you are talking through your ass.
It is pertty clear that a lot of other folks on the board consider you a whiner too.
In any case, I'm done talking with you - you're a waste of time.
Have a nice day.
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I swear alligence to a chess piece... (http://ubbsmile.free.fr/smileys/alc.gif)
xBAT
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Dmdnexus what I was saying is that I know my country's history, referring to your BOB stories.
No need to be such a pompous tard nexus.. But I guess that's your nature. LOL.
I prefer a part of the board consider me a whiner than everyone consider (you) a fool. :)
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Originally posted by Apache
I missed your point by design, you mean ol' Texan.
No need to be insulting!!! Wait!! I am a Texan.....nevermind :cool:
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"I don't like whiners. I guess that's my military background showing.
Instead of confronting chalanges and overcoming them, whiners make excuses why they can't and cry for someone else to change things so they can. "
A Fuggin Men.Im a Bish and lately there HAVE been an overload of numbers.But as I recall from previous camps that you wineing maggots refuse to recall,when the Bish were being banged to hell and back you just NEVER and it amazed me to no end,but you NEVER heard the bish crying about it.Ive seen the Rooks roll us like cheap carpet and throw us to the curb when we had numbers.How did they do it?Missions.They didnt cry,they got up and orginized and it worked.You lame tulips can piss and moan about numbers all you want.Numbers dont win resets.Organized pilots do.Dissagree all you want but thats the facts.Quick fast strikes of strategic value take bases.When bases are being took you hit Barracks.When you hit one base you prep the closest base by hitting fuel.TEAMWORK.I personaly am not a strat player.But I understand the concept.SOmething a few in here have no grasp of.They would rather wine about there situation than fix it.
Sorry for the harsh attitude but these crybabys really pluck.There followers with no leader and no ability to lead so they squeak about it.Blame the numbers.Blame the game.Anything but there lack of organization.Dissgruntled perk potatos.
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Try making missions when youre 2:1 for a month or so and then tell who is a lameass.
No way in hell any mission is going to overcome the imbalance. It's simply not possible unless the other side is a collection of newbies.
Maybe field, maybe two.. its possible. But doing that exposes 10 fields otherwhere, which the larger enemy will milkrun and thank you for it.
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Hey look, Ripley's spouting tears again. How suprising.
SOB
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SOB first of all, the problem during my timezone is over already, MA has been perfectly balanced most of the time during last week. No reason to whine.
What we have here is a difference in opinnions and a discussion, which you people who whine about discussions, don't like.
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If what you've been doing is discussing, then you're right, I have absolutely no idea what a discussion is about. I apologize.
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Apology accepted SOB.
You see, if a person makes a claim and the other person disagrees to it verbally, that becomes a discussion. That then may or may not lead into a fruitful conclusion.
To go back to the original subject, I'd like to know if anyone has ever managed to perform reset or even push close to one while being outnumbered 2:1 or more?
Maybe I'm totally wrong, I just have never seen it happen. Anyone?
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"If what you've been doing is discussing, then you're right, I have absolutely no idea what a discussion is about. I apologize."
Thats sarcasm.I recognise that.How about a nice polka.
Ive seen the side with less numbers win.SeveraL times.I dont have number to back it up because most people not looking to prove anything realise that fact.Its in the organization.Better organised team has better results.Sure a few attacks are going to be stopped.The majority wont if there planned right.Out numbered doesnt mean out gunned.
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"Ive seen the side with less numbers win.SeveraL times."
Outnumbered by what? 10%, 20%, 30%?
150%?
You see, there is a certain point where the balance just tips too far. Common sense tells that if you take a mass of players, divide it to 2 uneven sections, the side with the advantage will win. Up to a certain point the smaller side has some chances but I'd assume that around 50% and above that disparity in numbers will end up in onesided victory at all times.
What most people seem to be missing in my thoughts is that I only want to prevent a huge mismatch (2:1 or worse) not to end the whole variation in numbers!
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One way to flavor success is to have a squad with members who play regularly. I am very fortunate to be a member of a squad who not only is fairly large...believe very close to 30 members, but also many of them participate on a daily basis. This gives our squad the opportunity to fly together when online. It is not uncommon to see 13 to 17 of us up on a non squad night and flying together.
This will naturally make it difficult for the enemy, in our squad numbers alone. No mission......just the flying circus winging and creating general mayhem. Lots of fun......I think finding a squad like that is key to enjoying the game. Even if your country is outnumbered....if you have many squadmates online, at least the grid of the map that you and your squadmates are flying in make any number of enemy palatable. It also helps if the majority of your squadmates have been playing online flight sims an avg. of 7 years or better...like ours.
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Rgr that Hajo.Flying lone wolf makes it a whole new ball game.Flying with a group that WILL give you check 6's when needed greatly improves you chances of survival.After that its up to the pilots ability.Greater numbers vrs you make it harder and greater numbers running missions is next to impossable.Tables turn and balences shift.Just gotta ride it out and up from farther bases.
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Here is my take on it.
With numbers a team can be offensive and defensive. The team with numbers can do both pretty well. Without numbers all you can really do well is either attack or defend, not both. Notice how the war will stalemate when the numbers match up.
Now lets face facts here. All many missions really do is get a gaggle players together and go attack a base defended almost solely by AI. The other thing that a mission does is include the neccessary ingredient of a goon or two.
So the recipe is this:
- Gather a gaggle of players
- Make sure you have 1 or 2 goons
- Attack the base AI
- Disable the base so human players can't defend it from that base
- Get the drunks in quickly before defence comes from somewhere else
This is a game strategy very commonly used, and it really can be alot of fun!
PS
The Bish horde will be the Bish horde. :)
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This kind of post are becoming extremly boring.
If you are so badly outnumbered :
Start recruiting new player for your country !
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That's a great idea straffo.. Where's the recruiting office and the target group?
This is exactly why somekind of balancing tool is needed to spread the playerbase more evenly. Existing accounts could remain the same, just put the new accounts according to numbers - country loyalty seems to keep them mostly in the original country in the long run.
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If you cannot live with being from time to time outnumbered
Just spend 149.50$ and voila ! 10 mercenary willing to help you at all cost !
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A quick search on "outnumbered" give 562 threads ( I know that not all are relevant but it compensate thoose I've missed )...
The biggest problem with AH (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12165&)
Bishop / Knight pact (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10390&)
Those threads have almost 3 year now ...
And at this time 4 player were able to "unbalance" (I hate this word) the Arena ...
I've found a gem !
04-17- 2000 03:44 AM
Fatty
Guest
Registered: Not Yet
Location:
Posts: N/A
All other things being equal I like to attack the one that's going to whine about it the loudest. We used to hit the knights a lot, but they never complained, just fought back. More recently we've discovered that the rooks squeal very nicely when poked, followed by innumerable conspiracy theories.
This makes for not only the enjoyment of the Aces High model, but also the greatly amusing channel 1 protests.
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Fatty
FAT DRUNK BASTARDS
Brilliant Fatty ;)
And still true more than 2 years later :D
here :
Mass Rook Defections (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4212&)
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:)
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Never ending war among the forum dweebs...How about this....
All three countries bring me each one of the hottest chicks you have and then I will make the final decision on who wins the war. But then again I win, and that would not be fair right? :)
Thats fair right?
Lets see how our new AH plays out.
Mave
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This kind of post are becoming extremly boring.
If you are so badly outnumbered :
Start recruiting new player for your country !
That's a good idea, lemme try it.........
Hey Vati and the rest of the Flying Circus, why don't you guys come join the rooks. We have many benefits I think you will enjoy and here's just a few of em:
- You will be joining an unorganized country of whiners where everyone is a general and no one wants to follow.
- Tactically, the rooks make some of the poorest decisions I have ever seen.
- No one ever checks your 6.
- We have some of the nicest fleece lined equipment from our abused sheep.
Ok, so that's an unfair list and in all actuality I would like to see the Circus boys fly with us. Rooks can kick butt even when outnumbered, I think we have some good pilots and more often than not I don't mind being outnumbered, but damn, I sure could use a permasquelch option.
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Originally posted by Goth
- You will be joining an unorganized country of whiners where everyone is a general and no one wants to follow.
- Tactically, the rooks make some of the poorest decisions I have ever seen.
[/B]
That's a pretty accurate description of the Rooks last night. We had the advantage in numbers, Bish were down to just 3 fields, Knits had 6 less than Rooks. What happened? Bish held on, Rooks attacked every field with no more than four aircraft, meanwhile Knits rolled up Rooks in North, cause nearly everyone was down South. Rooks offered a good imitation of a fire drill in an ant hill. Bish tried NOE attack on A16 in the south. Despite having well over 100 players in the south, many just 5 minutes away, just two responded to repeated calls to save A16. So, my Squad went over, and along with the two Rooks who rushed there, saved the base. It seemed to me that the Rooks were mind-locked last night, unable to adapt to changing circumstances. This and the inability (or unwilligness) to organize cost them the opportunity for the reset.
Kudos to the Bishops for their dogged determination not to lose. Likewise, the Knits did well by exploiting the Rook's single-mindedness.
My regards,
Widewing
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Hey Vati and the rest of the Flying Circus, why don't you guys come join the rooks. We have many benefits I think you will enjoy and here's just a few of em:
LOL Thanks Goth.We thought about a tour off Bish but it would have caused probs.Die hards die hard. to ya anyway.
Great fight last night too.:rolleyes: