Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sikboy on June 13, 2002, 04:39:52 PM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41490-2002Jun12.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41490-2002Jun12.html)
Hey, what's in this box here?
-Sikboy
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Looks like a good learning experience for all of us.
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It looks like 'Racial Profiling' to me.
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you wanna talk racism, i'll talk racism, some time ago i tried to find a govt grant to help my small business, i found hundreds of govt grants, but they were for native americans , native american tribes, women, and "minoritys" who ever they are, but i found NO govt grants for dumb white boys like me, now thats real racism
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Originally posted by john9001
you wanna talk racism, i'll talk racism, some time ago i tried to find a govt grant to help my small business, i found hundreds of govt grants, but they were for native americans , native american tribes, women, and "minoritys" who ever they are, but i found NO govt grants for dumb white boys like me, now thats real racism
I imagine that those grants are there to level the playing field for people who are discriminated against.
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Since when do two wrongs make a right? :confused:
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Originally posted by majic
Since when do two wrongs make a right? :confused:
Trying to balance the playing field is wrong?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Trying to balance the playing field is wrong?
Discriminating against any race is wrong, at least that's what I was always taught.
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Originally posted by Udie
Discriminating against any race is wrong, at least that's what I was always taught.
You're right it is. But what would you do about the discrimination that is already present?
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Sounds like a real party stopper to me. Want to get them out of your house at midnight? Just whip out this bit of exciting entertainment :)
It's a game for democrats and libs would play to feel sorry for themselves ... Can you imagine a "Whiteman" game and the black community not calling it racist? Forgot, racism only goes one way for those who hide behind it.
Wonder if you can buy it with foodstamps ...
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Providing grants to one ethnic group and not another promotes resentment..And resentment leads to discrimination.
Don't agree with you on this one Thrawny..
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The only "group" that doesn't have equal rights(ie...discriminated against in the eyes of the law) are gays(right to marry/adopt/same sex benefits...etc)...Yet they get no funding.All these other "groups" have these rights..and then some(right to special funding).
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Damnit! Getting my assed kick by eveyone elses reasonable responses.
At least there's Eagler.:D
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Originally posted by Eagler
It's a game for democrats and libs would play to feel sorry for themselves ... Can you imagine a "Whiteman" game and the black community not calling it racist? Forgot, racism only goes one way for those who hide behind it.
Wonder if you can buy it with foodstamps ...
Of course, we can respond with the same sort of over generalized statement such as, "what's the game for sheet wearin' conservatives and republicans?"
...but that would be tiresome.
:rolleyes:
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Sawyer quit his job, and went to work. For 18 months, his girlfriend (now wife) supported him in her job at a cable company as he compiled the obstacles and indignities of black life.
"Hey honey, I'm going to quit my job and create a board game because I don't like to work and no one would buy my toejamty book. You're going to support us."
How about a game about women and the men in their lives. There would, of course, have to be one special card - "Your idiot boyfriend stumblediddlys over opportunity to find riches, advance to Mansion."
SOB
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SOB, I've been working on my own board game for the past 18 months while my wife supports me and the six kids as a night waitress at Denny's. I call it "Trailer Park Trash" and it's designed to give you an insight into what it means to be Trailer Park Trash in America.
The object of the game is to scam as much money as you can to pay for the essentials in life- beer, wine, pot, cigarettes, TV dinners and Kentucky Fried Chicken- while avoiding squares on the board like the Landlord's Office, where you have to pay rent, or the Sobriety Checkpoint, where you are almost certain to fail and end up in jail.
Of course we also have good squares, too- like the Baby Square, where you get another dependant and get an additional 100 dollars in your Welfare Grant money every time you pass go, or the Recycling Square, where you get to collect all the money the players have paid in fines.
We have cards- some good, some bad. Bad ones? "Tweaker steals your bike, lose one turn," "Pay fifty dollars for daughter's abortion," "You are under arrest for domestic violence, go directly to jail," and my personal favorite, "Wife gives you clap, pay 100 dollars to doctor." Good ones? "Collect fifty dollars for the profit on the ounce of weed you sold," "Wife sleeps with landlord in lieu of rent, collect 200 dollars," or my personal favorite, "your daughter wins first place at the amatuer topless contest. Collect 100 dollars."
I'm getting close to actually marketing this game but I've run short of funding. If any of you would wish to invest 10 thousand dollars toward the launching of Trailer Park Trash I can almost guarantee you a yield of 100 thousand dollars within 3 months of my bank's acceptance of your check. This game will sell like hot cakes.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Trying to balance the playing field is wrong?
Nope. ;)
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Discrimination is a specific act. It should be eliminated. Trying to compensate for it is ridiculous. It would be like instead of police protecting citisens from criminals it would allow crimes to happen but then taxpayers would "compensate" victims.
Everybody talks about that discrimination. It is illegal, so if you know about it, notify the authorities and shut it down.
miko
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Racism exists today, in a very very small amount compared to our dark past in the USA. I believe that "sterotyping" is often mistaken as racism. Cultural differences are often sterotyped and even by same races. It comes in many forms. I'm sterotyped all the time, I have homemade tattoo's. People judge me or my background before even getting to know me. I don't cry racism. I recognise the sterotyping. I don't blame them. I don't view myself as a victim. I am "watched" more closely by cops at events than the black guy standing next to me.
The ones that stopped feeling sorry for themselves are the true successful people in the world. Once you get "over yourself" and realise that you are not the center of the universe, things start happening for you in a positive way.
"Racism exsists, no doubt about it, but you look past it, and keep heading in the direction of your goals, you'll rise above it." (This last sentence from a very close friend/engineer here at Boeing, who was the only black engineer that worked on the Redstone/Mercury project. He has pictures in his home shaking hands with JFK. He retired in 1992)
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LOL
You' have a winner there as it be funny as hell to play it.
Problem with "Blackman" is it is suppose to be serious and educational.
Wonder how many who purchased it bought it as a gag gift instead.
Thrawn
you are welcome :)
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Use your level the playing field reference. If you want to level it, fillin the part that's lower, don't dig out the whole damn thing. What I mean is, why not get to the source of the problem and work to improve the schools and the neighborhoods. Sure, its more difficult, but its a lasting solution as opposed to AA which is like a band-aid on a bullet wound.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Racism exists today, in a very very small amount compared to our dark past in the USA. I believe that "sterotyping" is often mistaken as racism. Cultural differences are often sterotyped and even by same races. It comes in many forms. I'm sterotyped all the time, I have homemade tattoo's. People judge me or my background before even getting to know me. I don't cry racism. I recognise the sterotyping. I don't blame them. I don't view myself as a victim. I am "watched" more closely by cops at events than the black guy standing next to me.
The ones that stopped feeling sorry for themselves are the true successful people in the world. Once you get "over yourself" and realise that you are not the center of the universe, things start happening for you in a positive way.
"Racism exsists, no doubt about it, but you look past it, and keep heading in the direction of your goals, you'll rise above it." (This last sentence from a very close friend/engineer here at Boeing, who was the only black engineer that worked on the Redstone/Mercury project. He has pictures in his home shaking hands with JFK. He retired in 1992)
Wow Rip, good post.
-Sikboy
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Where is the compassion?
Government grants should be available to ALL groups, if they meet certain basic qualifications. THAT is the only FAIR way to level the playing field. Anything else proposed by our government "leaders" is simply an attempt to buy votes and Balkanize the population. My sympathy goes to any family in a hard-luck situation that needs a helping hand. You do not accomplish anything worthwhile by replacing one form of discrimination with another. On the contrary, you end up teaching the current generation that it is OKAY to discriminate, as long as you do so to achieve some nebulous social goal.
Many of my views are right-wing, but I have several liberal friends that agree with me about this.
The post about White Trailer-Trash may have been tongue-in-cheek social commentary. However, I find that overused term offensive. ALL classes have their ne'er-do-wells. I know many hard-working, decent people who live in trailer parks. It may come as a shock to many of the upper-crust leftists to discover that there are still large numbers of poor whites in this country. Many of the jobs that they do are dirty grunt work that must be done and yet is at the low end of the salary scale. Real work is what they do...unlike pencil pushing or playing around with a computer keyboard. Most are not racists. They are more concerned with feeding their families and being able to save a little money. Just like poor Blacks and Hispanics. They ALL deserve the same opportunities for advancement.
The arguments for correcting past discrimination with present discrimination are morally bankrupt.
Regards, Shuckins
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This is kinda on the topic of this thread, it's something that happened to me a few months ago.
A coworker had talked to a lady who represented an organization that places low income family highschool kids in IT Depts and Local Companies so they can learn some basics and become for familiar with the field.
It sounded like a nice program to help low income familied kids interested in IT.
The lady received my number and called to tell me a little bit more about their program and it did sound interesting and I told her I would think about it. ( I was very busy at the time)
I then went to their website and I noticed that there were only black children in the pictures...no one else...I thot well that is strange...
So I read more about the program. I then found out that the reason why there were only black kids is because the program was made for "people of color" ONLY.
I had thought it was for everyone with low income...and that is why I considered it.
I called the lady back and confirmed with her that it was for "people of color" ONLY and told her that until they decide to provide the same opportunities to all low income familied children I wouldn't be dealing with their organization.
And she said she understood...(yet she still works there so I guess she approves)
If there were such an organizaton that said explicitly, only for "WHITE KIDS" then I'm sure it would get more notice and be frowned upon...
Anyhow I hope I'm not the only person who objected to that with them.
The program was started by some lady who retired from Microsoft...I can't remember the name of it or I'd post a web link to it.
DmdKanth
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last time I checked the colors in my crayon box, there was one named "White". :)
They meant to say "blah, blah of color - other than the color of white "
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Isn't white the absence of color? and black is all colors mixed together? Seriously, or do I have it backwards?
Either way, if black people are "people of color".... are white people... "people who lack color"? :)
Hey! I'm not white! I completely lack color! ;)
-SW
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Nope, not even that...
They meant to say "people of ONE color ONLY" They aren't even excluding only white kids...They are excluding *all* except black.
DmdKanth
Originally posted by Eagler
last time I checked the colors in my crayon box, there was one named "White". :)
They meant to say "blah, blah of color - other than the color of white "
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boy, life as a white man in america today really sucks rocks!
sarcasm mode /off
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Originally posted by Kanth
This is kinda on the topic of this thread, it's something that happened to me a few months ago.
A coworker had talked to a lady who represented an organization that places low income family highschool kids in IT Depts and Local Companies so they can learn some basics and become for familiar with the field.
It sounded like a nice program to help low income familied kids interested in IT.
The lady received my number and called to tell me a little bit more about their program and it did sound interesting and I told her I would think about it. ( I was very busy at the time)
I then went to their website and I noticed that there were only black children in the pictures...no one else...I thot well that is strange...
So I read more about the program. I then found out that the reason why there were only black kids is because the program was made for "people of color" ONLY.
I had thought it was for everyone with low income...and that is why I considered it.
I called the lady back and confirmed with her that it was for "people of color" ONLY and told her that until they decide to provide the same opportunities to all low income familied children I wouldn't be dealing with their organization.
And she said she understood...(yet she still works there so I guess she approves)
If there were such an organizaton that said explicitly, only for "WHITE KIDS" then I'm sure it would get more notice and be frowned upon...
Anyhow I hope I'm not the only person who objected to that with them.
The program was started by some lady who retired from Microsoft...I can't remember the name of it or I'd post a web link to it.
DmdKanth
KANTH, post a link please.
Was this a private orginization? Because groups like the United Negro College Fund are privately funded and can distribute their money any way they see fit. The Masons are as white a group as you can get, and they sponsor scholarships to children of Masons. Is that wrong too? ?I defy any of you to post a link to a GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED program that denys access to benefits based solely on race.
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Originally posted by SirLoin
The only "group" that doesn't have equal rights(ie...discriminated against in the eyes of the law) are gays
Not true. Gays have exactly the same rights as you and I.
I can't marry a same sex person just like a gay person can't.
A gay can marry an opposite sex person just like I can.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
The post about White Trailer-Trash may have been tongue-in-cheek social commentary. However, I find that overused term offensive. ALL classes have their ne'er-do-wells. I know many hard-working, decent people who live in trailer parks. It may come as a shock to many of the upper-crust leftists to discover that there are still large numbers of poor whites in this country. Many of the jobs that they do are dirty grunt work that must be done and yet is at the low end of the salary scale. Real work is what they do...unlike pencil pushing or playing around with a computer keyboard. Most are not racists. They are more concerned with feeding their families and being able to save a little money. Just like poor Blacks and Hispanics. They ALL deserve the same opportunities for advancement.
Regards, Shuckins
"UPPER CRUST LEFTIST??? PEOPLE REALLY DO GRUNT WORK ???"LOL Shuckins, I grew up the oldest of five kids without a father most of the time, or an abusive drunk for one on those rare occasions when he was around. We moved from Bakersfield in the South to Red Bluff to the North picking everything from tomatoes in Fresno to olives in Oroville to cantalopes in Sacramento. Every nickel I made went to help my Mom take care of my younger siblings. We grew up on welfare and handouts, to say we were poor was an understatement, and we were never in one place for more than a couple months before we were moving on. I attended over 15 elementary schools in six years, three junior high schools in two years, and three high schools in four years.
After my military service (number 36 in the draft lottery) I worked any job I could get to put myself through school, but mostly construction. I've worked pulling green chain in sawmills, running a jackhammer, or, my personal favorite, raking asphalt. Every penny I've ever gotten I've earned. And before all you amazinhunks think I'm whining, well, I'm not. I wouldn't trade my background and my childhood with any one of you.
Shuckins, I am offended by your condensending tone. You obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about so now you're posturing to impress all the other Crying Whities on this thread who are squeaking the Gov't. may be doing more for someone else than they are for them. If, at fifty, I've worked hard enough for the last 20 years to build my business (that's right John I'm self employeed too only I'm not crying because the Gov't. won't give me any money) to the point where I don't have to do grunt work anymore then good for me, huh? My rewards are a child that has attended the same schools with the same kids since kindergarden through high school, a wife who doesn't have to work unless she wants to and a nice house in a good neighborhood.
If the term "trailer park trash" somehow offends your delicate lily-white sensibilites then that's just too bad. Huddle up with SirLoin, John and all the other right wing cry babies who feel they are being cheated and have a group hug. And if I'm an "upper crust leftist" then it's because I've worked my whole life to get here, and I've earned it.
Regards,
Elfenwolf
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Originally posted by mietla
Not true. Gays have exactly the same rights as you and I.
I can't marry a same sex person just like a gay person can't.
A gay can marry an opposite sex person just like I can.
ROTFLOL!!!
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Originally posted by mietla
"Not true. Gays have exactly the same rights as you and I.
I can't marry a same sex person just like a gay person can't."
*I agree.You both have the same lack of rights or freedom of choice.
"A gay can marry an opposite sex person just like I can."
*I agree.A gay also has the right to be a lumberjack,just like you can.
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LOL Elf, you troll so much, no one is taking you seriously. See? Told you! ;)
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Lily-White sensibilities! Gee, didn't know I had any of those!
The term is overused. If cupcake, wop, and dago are considered to be offensive, racist terms then why not white trailer trash? If I implied that all leftists are upper crust then I apologize. What I attempted to point out was the contradictions in a philosophy that attempts to gain respect for one group while scupcakeing at another. From the tone of your post about the trailer-trash board game I was uncertain about the point you were trying to make.
Condescending!? Me!? In what way? For stating my belief that any system that extends favors to one group but not to another is morally bankrupt? What part of that statement do you disagree with? I'm sorry that anything I said threw you into such a rage. Do you not agree that all poverty-stricken families deserve the same consideration? A perfectly level playing field that extends aid to all that need it is the only fair one.
My life hasn't been as hard as yours. I'm glad that you have achieved success in life despite all the obstacles that you mentioned. But if you are going to quote "war stories" then I have a few from my own family to relate.
My mother was the child of a share-cropper in south Arkansas. In the fall of 1934, after one of the worst droughts on record, my grandfather cleared $25 on the sale of his cotton. Hardly enough to feed a family of seven for an entire winter. He and his brother pooled their money and bought a coon dog and spent the winter hunting coons and selling their hides, which at that time brought $10 a hide. The next year they bought a small farm of their own with the aid of a government loan. There was no money to build a new house, so an old barn that was already on the property was torn down and the lumber used to construct a home. While construction took place, the family lived in a tent. During the Depression my grandfather did not have the five cents it took to buy a pair of bootlaces. Instead he laced his boots with baling wire or string.
My father's family was in much the same condition. The children of both families did not wear shoes to school. The one pair that they had were worn only on Sundays. They lived in wood-frame houses with so many cracks between the boards you could see the chickens scratching around outside the house. Wood-stoves provided the only heat and there was no electricity, only coal-oil lamps. Store-bought clothes were a luxury so all clothing was hand-made.
By the time my generation came along things had improved somewhat. I do remember living in a three-room apartment in the back of a small country store on the "colored" side of the tracks. Many of my first friends were Black. I can remember stealing cold sodas from the old metal Coca-Cola drink box to give to an elderly Black-gentleman who was my friend. We would sit on the wooden benches out front and drink them and talk. I was pre-school age at the time. His name has been forgotten among the other misty memories of that time more than forty years ago. Since that time I have had, and continue to have many black friends. The school that I teach in is a small rural school located in the eastern delta region of Arkansas. The school population is almost evenly divided between Black and White, and the majority of them are impoverished. I love and respect all of them.
You are not alone in the world, sir. I attempted to point out in my first post that I considered the term "white-trailer trash" to be just as bigoted and racist as cupcake, or wop, or dago. It was never my intention to be condescending. There are upper-crust leftists in this country who stridently defend affirmative-action type programs and yet have little sympathy for the poor who do not belong to a minority. There are upper-crust rightists who feel the same way. Damn all of them! Why should the poor of any color be treated as if they are invisible?
Regards, Shuckins
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A black man and a white man are in a race. The race is the same distance for both of them, only the black man must carry this here piano.
Now that the race is half over, the crowd feels bad for making the black man carry the piano. So they let him put it down.
Do we have a fair race?
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libs are such dumbarses
what kind a game to you expect this guy to make?
ofcourse everyone knows how tough hes had it
I am sure he didnt embellish his life's experience to produce a game with the desired intent of making lily white libs feel bad
:eek:
How long do you think it will take before this game pops up in public schools.
Kinda reminds of the brown-blued chic who could make the middle class white female libs cry because she told them they were stupid because they had blue eyes.
They should rename it
"The Road to White Guilt"
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What about weight based handicapping to take into account those carrying sacks of potatoes too MT? Or is it limited to musical instruments?
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Originally posted by Fatty
What about weight based handicapping to take into account those carrying sacks of potatoes too MT? Or is it limited to musical instruments?
Well Fatty, you know hows them darkies likes to play music! And obviously the white man wouldn't be too far ahead......since they don't got that extra shin muscle. But I think we digress from the point of the little story.
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I don't know MT. I think the point is you should look to give anyone carrying too much a fair race.
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Originally posted by Fatty
I don't know MT. I think the point is you should look to give anyone carrying too much a fair race.
Spot on. Now how do we do that without either speeding up the black guy, or slowing down the white guy?
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You do it based on how much they are carrying, not what color they are.
It being starting a new race, not trying to arbitrarily decide where one would have been had he not been burdened.
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Originally posted by Fatty
You do it based on how much they are carrying, not what color they are.
It being starting a new race, not trying to arbitrarily decide where one would have been had he not been burdened.
Agreed on the burden thing, but "start a new race"? That's just silly. The race started 200+ years ago. It's too bad it doesn't start over for each new generation.
When everyone is provided the same opportunities it doesn't necessarily mean the race is even. Some of us have some catching up to do. When the "catching up" is done, then we will truly have equal opportunity.
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Goes without saying MT, every black person has it worse than any white person.....
I do wonder how many 22 year old blacks here grew up in a stone built house with meals cooked in a woodburning cast iron stove? Hands, lets have a show of hands.
I'd glady raise mine but Im not black....
:rolleyes:
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"I defy any of you to post a link to a GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED program that denys access to benefits based solely on race."
Try this one. (http://www.fao.ilstu.edu/scholarships/state.shtml#minority)
Or this one. (http://www.fao.ilstu.edu/scholarships/institutional.shtml#minority)
Not hard to find.
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Poor downtrodden white folks.:rolleyes:
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Poor downtrodden white folks.
Your're such a diddlying racist MT, even if you are a white guy as you say, you show such contempt at whites.
Pretty sad I think.
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Originally posted by majic
"I defy any of you to post a link to a GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED program that denys access to benefits based solely on race."
Try this one. (http://www.fao.ilstu.edu/scholarships/state.shtml#minority)
Or this one. (http://www.fao.ilstu.edu/scholarships/institutional.shtml#minority)
Not hard to find.
Those are both privately awarded scholarships majic.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Poor downtrodden white folks.
Your're such a diddlying racist MT, even if you are a white guy as you say, you show such contempt at whites.
Pretty sad I think.
LOL.
If you weren't exhibiting such a high degree of idiocy I would be offended.
Go look up "Racist" and get back to me.
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Here's a quick test:
How many of us here who are white (I am) have ever been negatively affected by an affirmaticve action program, racial profiling by law enforcement or racism in the work place?
I can honestly say that I have never experienced any of those things.
Every black man that I know has had negative experiences with law enforcement and/or racism in the work place, through no fault of their own.
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man effenwolf if you grew up on welfare how the hell can you figgure you earned every penny you ever had ?
sorry man you dont sound like poo folks, you sound like a middle class white guy roadkilling for effect.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Agreed on the burden thing, but "start a new race"? That's just silly. The race started 200+ years ago. It's too bad it doesn't start over for each new generation.
When everyone is provided the same opportunities it doesn't necessarily mean the race is even. Some of us have some catching up to do. When the "catching up" is done, then we will truly have equal opportunity.
BINGO!
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Just out of curiosity, how do you decide whether the "race" is fair or not? To me the race is fair right now, because everyone is playing under the same rules (laws). Well, not really actually, because some people are given an unfair advantage over others (quotations, affirmative action), but that's not very PC of me to say.
Apparently some people disagree, and claim that the situation right now is deeply unfair. but I just dont understand what they base this on. Take the piano-example, sure that race would be unfair, but then again, what you are doing is looking back 200 years in time and comparing the situation then with the situation now. In that case, the race will never be fair because we cannot change history.
If you want to add individual persons predjudices into the equation the race will not ever be fair either, because people will always have predjudices, that comes with the territory of being human. And it is extremely hard to legislate over peoples opinions.
So I must admit that I dont really get it, exactly what is it you people want? Should all white people drop out of school and quit their jobs? Would that make the race fair?
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I was affected by racism about one year ago. Just could not take a particular college class due to a proffesor who hated whites. And he was white too, go figure.
MT Im sure you fit in any definition of racism you hold, as it surely includes the words "white people".
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
a proffesor who hated whites.
LOL, man, he cant have an easy life...
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Affirmative action plays a big part in this argument. While I cannot think of a government program off the top of my head that practices reverse racial discrimination in hiring, lending, or what-have-you, I would like to offer these observations from my most recent American Government textbook (United States Government: Democracy in Action. Glenco/McGraw Hill publishers, 1998.)
In the early 1960s, the federal government began to require employers, labor unions, and universities to adopt affirmative action programs. Affirmative action means that employers and other institutions must take positive steps to remedy the effects of past discrimination against minorities and women.
The Supreme Court first ruled on affirmative action in Regents of the University of California V. Bakke, (1978). Allan Bakke claimed to have been refused admission to the Univsity of California medical school because he was white. The medical school had set up a quota system that reserved 16 places out of 100 each year for minorities. Minority students with lower test scores than Bakke were admitted to fill the quota. Bakke sued, claiming he was a victim of reverse discrimination.
Upholding the basic idea of affirmative action by a 5-4 decision, the Court ruled that the university could consider race along with other characteristics when admitting students. The Court, however, went on to explain that a strict quota system based on race was unconstitutional and in violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. The Court ordered the university to admit Bakke to its medical school.
The Supreme Court has since considered many other affirmative action cases to decide whether it is proper to deny members of the majority fair treatment in order to make up for the unequal treatment of minorities in the past. Its record leaves the issue clouded because the Court has struck down as many affirmative action plans as it has upheld.
In 1987 the Supreme Court favored affirmative action in a dispute involving equal protection for women. In the case of Johnson v. Transportation Agency, Santa Clara County, Calif. (1987), the Court upheld a voluntary affirmative action plan the transportation department had adopted. The plan's goal was to move women into high-ranking positions. In this case Diane Joyce and Paul Johnson had been competing for the job of road dispatcher. Johnson scored two points higher on the qualifying interview. Because of the county's affirmative action plan, however, Diane Joyce got the promotion. Johnson went to court claiming the plan violated Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
By a vote of 5 to 3, the Court ruled against Johnson. The Court held that so long as it was carefully used, affirmative action was an appropriate remedy for past discrimination.
Could affirmative action be used in a case that did not involve a remedy for past discrimination? In 1990 the Court answered yes by upholding a Federal Communications Commission policy of favoring women and minorities when it awards radio and television broadcast licenses. The Court agreed with the intent of the policy--to increase the number of broadcast stations owned by women and minorities.
The Court appears to be sending mixed messages about affirmative action. One, it can be used to reverse the effects of past discrimination. Two, it cannot be used in a strict quota system based on race. Three, it can be used in cases that do not involve a remedy for past discrimination. With the government talking out of both sides of its mouth, it's no wonder that the people on both sides of this argument, cannot seem to see the other side's point of view.
Regards, Shuckins
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karnak whos to say that it because of their skin color is why they were "mistreated"
Suppose a black man is just a handsomehunk and someone just doesnt like him in particular. How do seperate that from racism?
The fact is we have to take their word for it.
Some people are ugly
some are dumb
some are generally unliked
Theres a whole host of things that can cause someone not to like you.
None of umm I ever feel guilty for. I wont just take someones word for it. If that was the case the every girl my ugly cousin asked out must really have been a lesbian.
How many people in your life have you run into and have had a negative experience with? How many of those do you think are because of race? How do you know?
I agree with gruenherz
Poor downtrodden white folks.
Your're such a diddlying racist MT, even if you are a white guy as you say, you show such contempt at whites.
Pretty sad I think.
everywhere he looks theres nazi revisionists.
look at his 1st post in this thread.
he didnt even play the game and already feels guilty
:rolleyes:
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Affirmative action plays a big part in this argument. While I cannot think of a government program off the top of my head that practices reverse racial discrimination in hiring, lending, or what-have-you, I would like to offer these observations from my most recent American Government textbook (United States Government: Democracy in Action. Glenco/McGraw Hill publishers, 1998.)
In the early 1960s, the federal government began to require employers, labor unions, and universities to adopt affirmative action programs. Affirmative action means that employers and other institutions must take positive steps to remedy the effects of past discrimination against minorities and women.
The Supreme Court first ruled on affirmative action in Regents of the University of California V. Bakke, (1978). Allan Bakke claimed to have been refused admission to the Univsity of California medical school because he was white. The medical school had set up a quota system that reserved 16 places out of 100 each year for minorities. Minority students with lower test scores than Bakke were admitted to fill the quota. Bakke sued, claiming he was a victim of reverse discrimination.
Upholding the basic idea of affirmative action by a 5-4 decision, the Court ruled that the university could consider race along with other characteristics when admitting students. The Court, however, went on to explain that a strict quota system based on race was unconstitutional and in violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. The Court ordered the university to admit Bakke to its medical school.
The Supreme Court has since considered many other affirmative action cases to decide whether it is proper to deny members of the majority fair treatment in order to make up for the unequal treatment of minorities in the past. Its record leaves the issue clouded because the Court has struck down as many affirmative action plans as it has upheld.
In 1987 the Supreme Court favored affirmative action in a dispute involving equal protection for women. In the case of Johnson v. Transportation Agency, Santa Clara County, Calif. (1987), the Court upheld a voluntary affirmative action plan the transportation department had adopted. The plan's goal was to move women into high-ranking positions. In this case Diane Joyce and Paul Johnson had been competing for the job of road dispatcher. Johnson scored two points higher on the qualifying interview. Because of the county's affirmative action plan, however, Diane Joyce got the promotion. Johnson wento to court claiming the plan violated Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
By a vote of 6 to 3, the Court ruled against Johnson. The Court held that so long as it was carefully used, affirmative action was an appropriate remedy for past discrimination.
Could affirmative action be used in a case that did not involve a remedy for past discrimination? In 1990 the Court answered yes by upholding a Federal Communications Commission policy of favoring women and minorities when it awards radio and television broadcast licenses. The Court agreed with the intend of the policy--to increase the number of broadcast stations owned by women and minorities.
It appears that the Court is sending mixed messages about affirmative action. First, affirmative action can be used to remedy the effects of past discrimination. Second, affirmative action cannot be used when it is based on a strict quota system based on race. TThird, affirmative action may used in a case that does not involve a remedy for past discrimination. With the Court talking out of both sides of its mouth on this issue, it's no wonder that the people on both sides of this argument cannot seem to the other side's point of view.
Regards, Shuckins
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Nice post Shuckins.
I remember the Bakke case very well. I was extremely upset with the ACLU at the time, because they didn't assist Bakke. I felt they were not remaining true to their principles.
Affirmative action that assists in increasing the number of minority owned businesses is probably the most useful. Once these businesses are in place the "glass ceiling" tends to disappear.
Grun, You are the most insulting person on this board. Why is that? For every instance of discrimination perpetrated against a white man, there are many many more that occur against a black man. Poor Grun couldn't take a class. My neighbors kid was shot and killed for smoking a joint in an empty building. A guy at my job was arrested because they were looking for "The black guys" that worked here. He was released later, had to walk the 5 miles back to his car, and lost pay for his absence. I fixed that issue (the pay), but that almost never happens to those of us with the good fortune to be Caucasian.
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Oops, sorry about that guys. Didn't think the original post went through. Corrected a mistake in the first and sent it a second time.
Embarassed,
Shuckins
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
man effenwolf if you grew up on welfare how the hell can you figgure you earned every penny you ever had ?
sorry man you dont sound like poo folks, you sound like a middle class white guy roadkilling for effect.
I didn't say I grew up on welfare, I said my Mom drew welfare periodically (usually winters) and in fact we also lived in Gov't. subsisized housing occasionaly, in Richmond, CA. when I was 7 or 8 and in Sacramento, Ca when I was 9 or 10. Now if you think I'm the Eminem of these BBS then whatever, I could send you my mom's phone number and she'd be more than happy to clue you in but I don't give a rat's bellybutton what you believe.
Your statement "If you grew up on welfare how the hell can you figgure you earned every penny you ever had" is a valid one. I think we should make every kid whose life was made more comfortable through social programs pay back that money should they ever achieve any degree of financial success.
Sorry man you don't sound like poo folks either, you sound like a dipshit who doesn't know his bellybutton from a hole in the ground.
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I don't think the main problem our society has is a racial one.. I think it is a financial one. There has always been a gap between the 'well-off' and the 'not so well off' i.e. poor. The gap is growing, and it has been picking up steam. I'd have to dig up some of my old textbooks to give exact numbers (and even those references would be from the early or mid 1990's), but I *think* something like 2% of our population owns 40% of the wealth. I also seem to remember a statistic saying the top 40% owned 90% of the wealth (I could be wrong there though).
Black people are trying to get ahead just like anyone else. If they can play a 'racism card' to get more for themselves, more power to them. For every black man that makes it, there are countless black AND white men that will languish in poverty for the rest of their lives.
Is that wrong? No, not according to our society. That is actually the goal of our society. I'm pretty sure a lot of 'racial tension' between black and white people would be eased if EVERYONE had enough money for a house and a car. That will never happen, at least not the U.S.A, so I suppose rascism will continue to be a 'problem'.
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"Those are both privately awarded scholarships majic."
I'm not sure where you got that idea, those scholarships are awarded by ISAC (Illinois Student Aid Commission), which is state run.
Look here, ISAC page with scholarship info. (http://www.isac1.org/ilaid/ilaid.html)
The Illinois State University page here (http://www.fao.ilstu.edu/scholarships/index.shtml) distinguishes between private and public scholarships. I just followed the links from there.
EDIT: Just so you don't get the wrong idea. I believe many African Americans are at a disadvantage but I feel Affirmitive Action is not the way to fix the problem. Work on schools and neighborhoods in poor areas, don't concentrate the poor in housing projects, and don't tolerate racism anywhere, in any form. Just don't blame every minority person's problems on every white person, because that's not the case.
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In the mid-1930's many sharecroppers in the South were being forced off of their lands by a changing economic climate. Efforts by the government to assist them, such as the Agricultural Adjustment Administration, often did them more harm than good. The AAA, one of Roosevelt's first New Deal programs, paid farmers to reduce the amount of crops that they produced by letting some of their land lie fallow. The landowners were supposed to divide their AAA checks with their tenant farmers. In reality, however, the landowners tended to reduce the number of acres planted by evicting their tenant farmers and did not share the AAA subsidy.
A group of Southern tenant farmers who were outraged by this situation organized the interracial Southern Tenant Farmers' Union. Although segregated in most work and social situations, African American and white tenant farmers joined forces to fight the landowners who had unjustly evicted them. First organized in Arkansas in 1934, the STFU's goals were a fair share of the government payments, higherwages for hired hands, and a better deal for tenants. The Union was despised, harassed, and accused of being led by Communists. Landowners worked with law-enforcement agents to threaten and harass the union members and break up their meetings.
Desperate for help, the STFU appealed to Roosevelt for aid. He responded with promises but no action. One disappointed STFU leader wrote, "Too often he has talked like a cropper and acted like a planter (land-owner).
Nevertheless, the actions of the STFU caused the nation to focus on the plight of the sharecropper. The very idea of a mixed black and white union caused a great stir. (Paraphrased from the textbook American Odyssey: McGraw/Hill pub. 1997. )
At times, gentlemen, poor Blacks and Whites carried the same piano in that race.
Regards, Shuckins
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.. called STFU is one *I* want to be a member of.
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"Grun, You are the most insulting person on this board."
Gee thanks, I guess..... BTW I disagree somewhat and prefer to be called offensive, because I think one must make a point to be offensive in todays overblown oversensitive PC stuck-up pretentious world. Dont take yourself so diddlying seriously and lighten up. But anyway what does this have have to do with the argument?
And you are right MT, no white person was ever affected by racism in America, not ever. Not one single Paddy, not a single whoopee Christ killing Kike Jew, certainly not any Italians, or anyone. Yep, never.
But every single single black person is. Plus they are disadvantages and automatically poor for being black. Yep never met a black guy who wasnt dirt poor, or at least came from a poorer family than me. Yep. :rolleyes:
As for the neighbor kid who got shot, well he was shot because he was black. How do you know this? Did the "white pig cop" say he killed him because he was black?
"but that almost never happens to those of us with the good fortune to be Caucasian."
And I bet that almost never happens to those of us with the good fortune to be Black either. :rolleyes:
I just disagree with your doom and gloom outlook in the world MT, guess thats the most honest and respectful way to state my postion.
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As the snow flies.
On a cold and grey Chicago morn' another liitle baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mother cries ( in the ghetto )
'Cause if there's one thing that she don't need,
it's another little hungry
mouth to feed In the ghetto
Now people don't you understand The child needs a helping hand
Or he'll grow up to be an angry young man some day
Take a look at you and me Are we too blind to see
Or do we just turn our heads and look the other way
As the world turns
and a hungry little child with a runny nose plays in the streets
as the cold wind blows
And his hunger burns
So he starts to roam the streets at night and he learns how to steal
and he learns how to fight In the ghetto
And then one night in desperation A young man breaks away
He buys a gun steals a car tries to run but he don't get far
and his mother cries
As a crowd gathers 'round an angry young man face down in the street
with a gun in his hand
as her young man dies
on a cold and grey Chicago morn' another little baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
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Singalong:
What the world needs now...
Is Love, sweet Love...
The Sixties were entertaining but weird.
Regards, Shuckins
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Good point...(im white btw) but my ex wife's sisters were both half black and the younger looked very black and she was constantly followed in stores and treated "differently". I must say that just meeting her changed alot of my feelings about color and I was shown first hand how colored folks are treated differently. She was a nice girl (quite attractive too) and didnt deserve to be followed like she was in stores. I reckon those redneck bastards thought that just because she was darkskinned she had to be a shoplifter. I say...if you are gonna do racial profiling then at least have the decency to make it discrete and not overly obvious to the folks being "observed". That is why God made hidden cameras.
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Originally posted by N1kPaz
my ex wife's sisters were both half black and the younger looked very black and she was constantly followed in stores and treated "differently
Same thing happened to my friend Levi. But he was always stealing things, so that's different.
-Sikboy
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then it isnt the same thing man.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
As the snow flies.
On a cold and grey Chicago morn' another liitle baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mother cries ( in the ghetto )
'Cause if there's one thing that she don't need,
it's another little hungry
mouth to feed In the ghetto
Now people don't you understand The child needs a helping hand
Or he'll grow up to be an angry young man some day
Take a look at you and me Are we too blind to see
Or do we just turn our heads and look the other way
As the world turns
and a hungry little child with a runny nose plays in the streets
as the cold wind blows
And his hunger burns
So he starts to roam the streets at night and he learns how to steal
and he learns how to fight In the ghetto
And then one night in desperation A young man breaks away
He buys a gun steals a car tries to run but he don't get far
and his mother cries
As a crowd gathers 'round an angry young man face down in the street
with a gun in his hand
as her young man dies
on a cold and grey Chicago morn' another little baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
ROFL.. thanks Sikboy, cracked me up.
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Like I said Elfen, I dont' have a link, this was a few months back, it wasn't a big name organization and what I wrote was the only dealing I had with them.
And also like I wrote, I didn't agree with the way they selected the kids in their program and so they didn't receive my selection =)
Also like I wrote, it was started by a woman who formerly worked at microsoft, that sounds pretty non-government to me. And whether it's legally okay or not wasn't the deciding factor for me.
If they are going to pick and choose who to help, then I feel that they can pick and choose for reasons like interest, apptitude, determination, natural ability. Other than that, they can bit me.
I can't control the masons, I can't control anything other than what's in my own little world, and I won't compromise that just because something is accepted by someone else.
nobody likes the effing masons anyhow =)
DmdKanth
Originally posted by Elfenwolf
KANTH, post a link please.
Was this a private orginization? Because groups like the United Negro College Fund are privately funded and can distribute their money any way they see fit. The Masons are as white a group as you can get, and they sponsor scholarships to children of Masons. Is that wrong too? ?I defy any of you to post a link to a GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED program that denys access to benefits based solely on race.
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Originally posted by N1kPaz
then it isnt the same thing man.
:eek: OMG! No way! I can't beileve that you would say... oh wait, I said it wasn't the same thing :rolleyes:
-Sikboy
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Where is the compassion?
There have been several derogatory references to rednecks in these posts and I for one find them to be offensive and hypocritical!
All of our fellow men deserve our love and understanding!
The term redneck was originally coined by Governor Jeff Davis of Arkansas early in the twentiety century. It was an affectionate term for the hard working tenant farmers of the state who made up the majority of his support against his enemies, the silk-hat boys. These were the powerful landowners who used every opportunity to cheat the sharecroppers out of their share of the profits from the crops grown. Davis called the sharecroppers rednecks because their necks were permanently sunburned from work in the fields.
These rednecks may have been illiterate, but they were not stupid. They did not marry their sisters or cousins. They were too busy to wear bed sheets and burn crosses at night. That activity was left to the wealthier classes. It is largely through the efforts of idiots like Jeff Foxworthy that the term redneck has come to refer to a vicious, illiterate, tobacco-chewing, wife-beating, Black-hating, dog-kicking, beer-swilling Neanderthal.
Where is the love and understanding?
What the world needs now...
...is Love, sweet Love...
Come on now all togedda...Let's sing along! ;)
Regards, Shuckins
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A gay person can beat down a straight person, and get away with little more than an assault charge.
A straight person can beat down a gay person, and be charged with a hate crime.
In both instances, the reason for the beat down was the same... they just got pissed off at each other.
A black guy can beat down a white guy, and again, little more than assault... depending on the state/area of town.
A white guy can beat down a black guy, and again be charged with a hate crime no matter where he is.
Again, reason were they pissed each other off.
It's becoming less of being qualified for a job to get it, but more of being a certain race to meet a quota so a company can do it's bit for affirmative action.
Be apologetic for the past, believe that making laws to bring white people down/put "other races" up is going to make a better world for them to live in.
MT, you say that whites and blacks are in a race.... the race starts over with every generation, I started off dead even with black people of my own age, so you think slowing me down further and putting them further ahead somehow makes it even?
Do I believe a black person is at a disadvantage to me? No, laws have been made since I was born to guarantee this will never happen. Do I believe I'm at a disadvantage to a black person? No.... not yet anyway.
-SW
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I wonder, if "the race starts over every generation" and you "started out dead even" with Black men of your own age...
why did we have to "pass laws during your lifetime" to ensure that it never happens again.
just curious.
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The laws were already created... more laws are being created everyday because there are people like you out there who believe that every new generation will be "behind" in this "race".
It's kind of rediculous, though, to assume blacks and whites are in a race... they aren't, as individuals we are.
People who are qualified, regardless of their skin color now-a-days, will find very few closed doors to get a job.. people who aren't qualified will find closed doors around every corner regardless of their skin color.
-SW