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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mason22 on June 13, 2002, 05:23:37 PM

Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: mason22 on June 13, 2002, 05:23:37 PM
well....???

spill it.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: milnko on June 13, 2002, 05:25:00 PM
One has Shark teeth paint job, the other one don't

DUH!
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: HFMudd on June 13, 2002, 05:36:11 PM
http://www.p-40.com/ (http://www.p-40.com/)
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Octavius on June 13, 2002, 05:45:32 PM

Woooohooooooo!!!


Older model, weaker engine.  The cowl MGs are in place because of the smaller engine .. I think.

(http://www.cafark.org/P40.gif)
What country are those markings from?
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: -ammo- on June 13, 2002, 06:34:56 PM
P-40 B was an early model (tomahawk). Armament consisted of 2 .50 cals in the cowling and 4 .30 cals in the wings.

P-40E (warhawk) had standard 6x.50 cals in the wings. I know the E model was a little faster but I dont know the numbers.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Hortlund on June 13, 2002, 06:37:41 PM
I think those markings are Nationalist Chinese.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: GRUNHERZ on June 13, 2002, 06:45:16 PM
AVG  duh.....  American pilots fighting for Natonalist China,  Chiang Kai Shek's side not the bastard commies.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Kieran on June 13, 2002, 07:04:55 PM
Wasn't the B slightly more maneuverable?
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Slayer on June 13, 2002, 07:21:05 PM
i might actually have to start playing again :)
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: cajun on June 13, 2002, 07:59:27 PM
P-40B looks nicer and I'll fly it allot more :) lol, but has more accurate armament (the 2x50cals in nose instead of wings, making them more accurate at all ranges) and the .30s, they are less powerfull of course but we prolly get more ammo :)

1 Question though.... Are those .30's in the wings? look like 50 cals, but I think the B had 30 cals?
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Karnak on June 13, 2002, 08:03:35 PM
P-40B was armed with six 50 cals, two in the nose and four in the wings.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Weave on June 13, 2002, 09:06:02 PM
Teamwork:D
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: HFMudd on June 13, 2002, 09:29:12 PM
Karnak,

Is this (http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/p40arm.html) page incorrect then?  I gather from it that it was not until the E model that 6x50's were equiped and those were all in the wing.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: -ammo- on June 13, 2002, 09:32:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
P-40B was armed with six 50 cals, two in the nose and four in the wings.

Thats not true, . As I said earleir, two 50's in the cowl, four .30's in the wings.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: cajun on June 13, 2002, 09:56:40 PM
So whats the armament on our P-40B?... Looks like 50 cals in the wings, maybe it has an option of 6x50's or 2x50's and 4x30's?...
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: cajun on June 13, 2002, 09:58:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Octavius

Woooohooooooo!!!


Older model, weaker engine.  The cowl MGs are in place because of the smaller engine .. I think.

(http://www.cafark.org/P40.gif)
What country are those markings from?


Thats Chinese markings.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: K West on June 13, 2002, 10:09:55 PM
CC Jordan on his web page fills us in on this model;

"Recent research appears to support Erik Shilling's strong argument that the AVG aircraft were very close to the P-40B configuration, which the British designated as the Tomahawk IIA. The history of the AVG fighters is nearly as interesting as the story of the AVG itself.
 When the Chinese asked the U.S. for assistance, they asked for fighters and bombers. For political reasons, FDR would agree only to fighters, and U.S. law at the time allowed only for cash & carry sales to beligerents. So, a China based corporation was formed to purchase aircraft. However, virtually all U.S. production capacity was allocated for our own build up and existing contracts with friendly nations such as Britain. In order to free up some aircraft for China, the U.S. asked the Brits to exchange later model P-40Ds (Kittyhawk I) for currently ordered Tomahawk IIB fighters. The Brits agreed and 100 of the contracted Tomahawks were transferred to a Chinese contract.
 Curtiss saw an opportunity to utilize stock of enternally sealed fuel tanks that had been used on the Tomahawk IIA. The Brits did not like the external sealing and specified internal sealing for future builds. This left Curtiss with over 100 sets of obsolete fuel tanks. This was their chance to use these, and they had already been written off. This would enhance profits. In addition, the Chinese contract, unlike that with the Brits, did not specify plumbing or shackles for an external fuel tank, so this was deleted from the Chinese aircraft. Again, this simplified production and increased the profit margin. The net result is that even though the 100 fighters carried Tomahawk IIB serial numbers, these fighters were very much like the IIA, except that they had IIB armor.
 Allison was running at 100% capacity. Simply stated, there weren't any extra engines to be had. Every block and cylinder head was already allocated to an existing contract. But, wait a minute, there were plenty of rejected blocks, cylinder heads and such. Allison realized that most of the rejected engine components were usable if the various parts were hand matched and fitted. They set up a production line and began assembling these engines. Individual parts were reworked and carefully matched. The results of this procedure were engines built to very tight tolerances. Essentially, these were 'blueprinted' engines. Dyno tests revealed that they produced as much as 220 hp more than the production line V-1710-33s going into the RAF Tomahawks and USAAF P- 40C fighters. Allison had produced some very powerful and very expensive engines. Fortunately they were allowed to bury the extra cost into contracts for U.S. aircraft. These engines certainly account for the performance of the AVG's Tomahawks. In general terms, the AVG fighters could pull up to 370 mph in level flight, which is reasonable considering that these aircraft had 20% more power and less weight than the British Tomahawk IIB. Another fact not picked up on as significant by historians was the high rate of reduction gear failures in the AVG aircraft. This is easily explained when you realize that the older style reduction gear was rated for no more than 1,100 hp. With as much as 1,250 hp on tap, the reduction gearbox was over-stressed and frequently stripped gears. Later models, with 1,200 hp engines were fitted with a much stronger spur gear design that could handle up to 1,600 hp. This is the major reason that the nose is shorter from the P-40D onward.
 Now that the Chinese had airframes and engines, they needed to purchase guns for the fighters. Once again, all production was allocated for existing contracts. Nonetheless, CAMCO (the China based front company) managed to purchase enough .50 caliber Brownings for all 100 Tomahawks. Finding .30 caliber guns (installed in the wings) was more of a problem. Eventually, the 100 Tomahawks were fitted with a mixture of guns. Some were fitted with 7.92mm caliber wing guns, others carried British specification guns in .303 caliber. Still others were armed with .30 U.S. caliber Brownings. This complicated logistics somewhat, but all three calibers were readily available, even 7.92mm, which was the standard for the Chinese Army.
 Within the context of this knowledge, we can understand that the AVG fighters were a unique model. For that reason, Curtiss gave them their own special designation. Originally contracted for as the Curtiss H81-2A, these fighters were designated as the H81-3A. Many historians and authors have confused the various Curtiss designations, or figured that these were Tomahawk IIB aircraft based upon the serial numbers. We now know that these were a special model. It should also be noted that the serial numbers were assigned months before actual manufacturing began.
 So, a unique group of fighter pilots flew an equally unique version of the Curtiss H81/Tomahawk/P-40."

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/9485/P-40C.html

 Westy
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Maverick on June 13, 2002, 10:19:38 PM
Given the status of armaments in this game the B model P40 will likely se no action outside of scenarios where that is the only choice available. The 4 - 30cal MGs are going to be pretty useless.
:(
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: cajun on June 13, 2002, 10:31:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Given the status of armaments in this game the B model P40 will likely se no action outside of scenarios where that is the only choice available. The 4 - 30cal MGs are going to be pretty useless.
:(


Why do you say that?, I'd fly a P-40 in the MA,or any other place, as well as any other plane!, I've dogfought in B26's, TBM's, and Il-2's and gotten many kills.
P40 cant be to much worse than the Il-2 or TBM, and I find those very good dogfighters if flown right.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Turbot on June 13, 2002, 11:39:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Given the status of armaments in this game the B model P40 will likely se no action outside of scenarios where that is the only choice available. The 4 - 30cal MGs are going to be pretty useless.
:(


Was certainly not the case in Warbirds, I would not expect any different in AH.  You will see plenty of p40's, more probabaly, because of perk system.  (and it did have 2 50's to go with the 303's anyway)
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Tac on June 14, 2002, 12:56:01 AM
P-40B will be my 2nd main ride. Man I love that puppy.

TWO .50 cals and 4 .30's are deadly. Just think about it, you will have the 2 50 cals for the long range work and to make the con turn, and the 4X.303 to NAIL the sucker at close range.

Its gonna be sweet! Long range plink o' death or close range mauling mwahahaha.
Title: LOL
Post by: senna on June 14, 2002, 01:12:25 AM
In response to kwests post.

>Essentially, these were 'blueprinted' engines. Dyno tests
>revealed that they produced as much as 220 hp more than the
>production line V-1710-33s

haha for once the privateers had the factory ride. Usually its the other way around, if you know what I mean :D

So will HT be giving us these trick Allisons. Plz Plz Plz.
Title: Re: LOL
Post by: RRAM on June 14, 2002, 05:20:55 AM
can someone post here some information on wingloadings and powerloadings for both P-40s?.

Also some information on its turn rate and turning radious will be most welcome :)...

I want to know how many 40s I'm gonna outturn with my 190 :D
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Mitsu on June 14, 2002, 05:57:10 AM
RRAM is RAM? :)
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Daff on June 14, 2002, 06:10:43 AM
"Was certainly not the case in Warbirds, I would not expect any different in AH."

What made the P-40B viable in WB, was the .50 cals in the cowling, as the .303's were largely useless.

Daff
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: RRAM on June 14, 2002, 06:19:15 AM
no, mitsu, RAM is RRAM (lol)


:D
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Wilbus on June 14, 2002, 07:13:10 AM
P40B was more maneuverable and had less armament (smaller guns) as stated above. P40B was most likely the plane I flew most back in WB many years ago, SWEEEEET plane :)

Gonna have to fly it again now :)
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: Hristo on June 14, 2002, 07:20:30 AM
It used to be opponent to the 109E in some RPS versions. Emils outclimbed and outaccelerated it. P40 was outdiving Emil, outturning and outrolling it at high speeds. Against 109F it is markedly inferior.
Title: Differences between the P40's ???
Post by: K West on June 14, 2002, 08:15:10 AM
What Hristo said. However the P40 could out turn the 190 and 109 handily.

 Westy