Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: F4UDOA on June 13, 2002, 09:46:33 PM

Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: F4UDOA on June 13, 2002, 09:46:33 PM
Ever wonder which was the most important fighter in the PAC theater? Well the answer is "it depends".

If you consider the Pac war the most critical in 1942(Midway, Quadacanal) then you think it was the F4F. If you think it was won in 1943(Solomans, Rabaul/Bouganville) then it would be the F4U. Or if you think 1944 was most critical(Marianes, Marshalls) then the F6F would be your pick.

It is amazing the total dominace of one fighter type in 1942,43,44.







Pac war kills by type and date (http://www.acepilots.com/planes/air_wins.html)

If anyone can extract this chart from this page I would greatly appreciate it.
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: iwojima on June 13, 2002, 10:05:52 PM
F4U the site doesn't work or for me at least it doesn't
i'd like to see those facts thoguh
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: F4UDOA on June 13, 2002, 10:17:36 PM
Fixed It!!
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: iwojima on June 13, 2002, 10:41:21 PM
you want the chart posted on the BB here?
i'll try for u
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Hooligan on June 14, 2002, 12:21:50 AM
F4UDOA:

I selected the chart, copied it and it pasted just fine into Excel.

What exactly to you need?  If you want I can email you a word document containing the data in table form.

Hooligan
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: F4UDOA on June 14, 2002, 09:12:24 AM
Thanks Gents,

Iwo, yes please post it in this thread if you can.

Hooligan, email please. I tried converting it to a word doc several times but it kept screwing up the margins and I was loosing data.

Thanks Guys
F4UDOA
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Hooligan on June 14, 2002, 04:18:57 PM
F4UDOA:

What is your current email address?

Hooligan
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: F4UDOA on June 14, 2002, 04:27:43 PM
markw4@comcast.net
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Samm on June 14, 2002, 05:18:07 PM
The zero was the most important fighter in the WWII PTO .
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: F4UDOA on June 14, 2002, 05:52:46 PM
Samm,

The Zero was the most important fighter right up until 1943. Then it became a tow target. After 1943 it wasn't even the most important Japanese Fighter. In fact if the IJN hadn't focused so much on the Zero they may have put up a better fight.
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Samm on June 14, 2002, 06:32:55 PM
I misunderstood the question then .
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: empire2 on June 14, 2002, 06:33:49 PM
Estimated Victories by Type - Table 5 & 24  
  Carrier-Based
Fighter Planes   Land-Based
Fighter Planes   Both Carrier & Land-Based
Fighter Planes  
  F4F/
FM2  F4U  F6F  F4F/
FM2  F4U  F6F  F4F/
FM2  F4U  F6F  TOTAL  
Dec-41 -  -  -  10  -  -  10  -  -  10  
Jan-42 -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Feb-42 25  -  -  -  -  -  25  -  -  25  
Mar-42 -  -  -  1  -  -  1  -  -  1  
Apr-42 -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  
May-42 34  -  -  -  -  -  34  -  -  34  
Jun-42 65  -  -  15  -  -  80  -  -  80  
Jul-42 -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Aug-42 72  -  -  52  -  -  124  -  -  124  
Sep-42 -  -  -  111  -  -  111  -  -  111  
Oct-42 57  -  -  164  -  -  221  -  -  221  
Nov-42 32  -  -  70  -  -  102  -  -  102  
Dec-42 -  -  -  17  -  -  17  -  -  17  
Total 1942 285  -  -  440  -  -  725  -  -  725  
 
Jan-43 11  -  -  49  -  -  60  -  -  60  
Feb-43 4  -  -  14  -  -  18  -  -  18  
Mar-43 -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Apr-43 -  -  -  17  29  -  17  29  -  46  
May-43 -  -  -  -  15  -  -  15  -  16  
Jun-43 -  -  -  41  87  -  41  87  -  128  
Jul-43 -  -  -  52  123  -  52  123  -  175  
Aug-43 -  -  -  -  112  -  -  112  -  112  
Sep-43 -  -  5  -  72  24  -  72  29  101  
Oct-43 1  -  42  -  56  9  1  56  51  108  
Nov-43 1  -  167  -  79  8  1  79  175  256  
Dec-43 -  -  37  -  63  30  -  63  67  130  
Total 1943 17  -  251  173  636  71  190  636  322  1,148  
 
Jan-44 -  -  51  -  291  53  -  291  104  395  
Feb-44 -  -  158  -  131  9  -  131  167  298  
Mar-44 -  -  108  -  11  3  -  11  111  123  
Apr-44 -  -  91  -  2  -  -  2  91  93  
May-44 -  -  2  -  -  -  -  -  2  2  
Jun-44 45  1  736  -  1  -  45  2  736  782  
Jul-44 7  -  107  -  -  -  7  -  107  114  
Aug-44 -  -  26  -  -  -  -  -  26  26  
Sep-44 45  -  321  -  -  -  45  -  321  365  
Oct-44 131  -  1,016  -  1  -  131  1  1,016  1,148  
Nov-44 -  -  264  -  -  -  -  -  264  264  
Dec-44 7  -  106  -  55  -  7  55  106  168  
Total 1944 234  1  2,985  -  491  65  234  492  3,051  3,777  
 
Jan-45 17  7  218  -  5  -  17  11  218  246  
Feb-45 40  79  309  -  1  -  40  80  310  429  
Mar-45 28  120  197  -  1  -  28  121  197  346  
Apr-45 90  241  718  -  128  12  90  369  730  1,189  
May-45 9  67  198  -  184  36  9  251  234  494  
Jun-45 3  4  10  -  99  20  3  102  31  136  
Jul-45 -  27  36  -  16  2  -  43  37  81  
Aug-45 -  29  38  -  3  -  -  31  38  69  
Total 1945 187  573  1,724  -  435  71  187  1,008  1,795  2,990  
 
Grand Total 723  574  4,961  613  1,563  207  1,336  2,137  5,168  8,641
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Greese on June 14, 2002, 06:39:27 PM
"The zero was the most important fighter in the WWII PTO ."

Samm-
     Your not incorrect.

The great Marinasas(sp?) Turkey Shoot!
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: whgates3 on June 16, 2002, 01:47:14 AM
if this is a discussion of what the most important fighter of the PTO was, then i would like to remind everyone that it was the P-38 that shot down Yamamoto. Also the P-38 was the only fighter allied fighter available early on that could provide long range escort service for the 'big friends'.  The top 3 allied aces of the PTO all flew the P-38...on the other hand the F6F provided the carriers with a plane that could out fight anything the IJN or IJA had in significant numbers, and the PTO air war certainly could not have been won without well defended carrier forces
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Nath[BDP] on June 16, 2002, 02:13:01 AM
The F6F produced the most aces of any other American fighter-- but F6F squads also had some of the highest attrition rates.
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Samm on June 16, 2002, 02:24:54 AM
The zero enabled Japan to start the war, the b29 enabled us to end it . Two most important planes of the war .
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Razzor on June 16, 2002, 04:31:47 AM
"The F6F produced the most aces of any other American fighter-- but F6F squads also had some of the highest attrition rates."

It would be interesting to know what percentage of that attrition was due to combat, and what was due to operational accident. I'm sure that the majority of all USN carrier a/c losses were due to accidents and not combat, I just don't know the percentage.
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Shuckins on June 16, 2002, 04:42:49 PM
F6F's kill to loss ratio was slightly better than 19 to 1.  That figure was not within the reach of any other Allied fighter of the period or of any since.  Combat losses amounted to around 300 aircraft for the entire period that the Hellcat was in operation.  All carrier types suffered higher loss rates from takeoff and landing accidents than did land-based combat aircraft, which is perfectly understandable considering the hazards of combat operations from a "field" less than a thousand feet in length that bobs and weaves like a drunken prize-fighter.

Regards,  Shuckins
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: CMC Airboss on June 17, 2002, 03:46:12 PM
F4UDOA,

Are you discounting the effectiveness of the discussed aircraft in their air-ground roles (bombing, rocket attacks, strafing, etc.)?  Air combat victory claims only tell a portion of the airplane's real importance.
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
F6F's kill to loss ratio was slightly better than 19 to 1.  

Kill to loss ratios can be deceiving.  Many claims on both sides exceeded the actual losses incurred; by a good deal in some cases.  In some battles and campaigns, the claims exceeded total number of enemy aircraft in the air and on the ground.  (example, more than 700 US air combat victories were claimed in the Solomons and the Japanese had less than 500 aircraft, total, in the whole theater).  They are probably a better indication of the relative quality of the opposition, which in the case of the Hellcat was a lot less in the Marianas Turkey Shoot than when F4F's and F4U's fought early-on over the Solomons.  
Quote
That figure was not within the reach of any other Allied fighter of the period or of any since.  Regards,  Shuckins

Are you just referring to WW2 aircraft?  What about the F-16 and the F-15 with their 64:0 and 101:0, respectively, kill-to-loss ratios?  

MiG
Title: Interesting stats on F6F and F4U
Post by: Shuckins on June 17, 2002, 06:46:08 PM
CMC Airboss,

The kill to loss figures I quoted above have been mentioned as a matter of course in almost every published combat history that I have read over the last 30 years.  They are the official statistics credited to the Hellcat by the U.S. Navy.  By comparison the F4U had a kill to loss record of 14 to 1.  

David A. Anderton in his book Hellcat states that the Navy credited the F6F with a total of 5,155 Japanese aircraft.  Against those 5,155 victories was balanced the loss of only 270 Hellcats in combat during the war.  its record as an escort for the strike forces was exceptional;  the Navy lost only 42 dive-bombers and torpedo bombers to enemy air action during the slightly less than two years that the Hellcat was in combat with the U.S. Navy.  Most of these statistics can also be found in Barrett Tillman's Hellcat;  the F6F in World War II.

Regards, Shuckins