Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on June 15, 2002, 04:39:03 AM
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Basically I just got shot down by one of these and I don't like it. Many other people say they they have been killed by nameless invisible people as well. There have been posts and threads in in the connectivity forum about this as well, with some techincal specifics about how this glitch occurs.
We all know that very soon, if not allready that people will try to recreate this advantage for themselves on purpose. In effect they will be attempting to cheat. Say what you will about AH mature community but in my experience the option of cheating is often irresistable to many people. Cheating will become more common, and will poison the atmosphere of the game. We must not let this happend.
It seems this issue of invisible planes has gone by somewhat quietly and without drawing much scrutiny. It is in fact happening and is very real. We cant just hope it stays quiet and doesnt get noticed by those willing to cheat. We must confront the issue.
Im somewhat concerned by HTC's apparent silence on this matter and would love to hear from them as soon as possible.
Are you aware of this?
Can it be fixed?
If so are you taking any measures?
For all my squeaking and complaining from time to time on this BBS I have always supported AH and HTC because you guys and gals prove your abilty to kick butt and do computer toejam well. So Im sure you can kill this thing, but your silence is a concern.
Thanks!
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My thoughts exactly.
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maybe a 1000 perk cloaking device?
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It has happened to me as well. At first I thought it was due to poor SA, but I happened to film it...
During the whole film, I had a plane at my 6 but, during the actual fight, every time I checked 6 I didn't see it... connection problem for sure, but it sure is annoying as well.
Daniel
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If it's recorded on film your FE knows the plane is there. Why doesn't it display it in flight?
It either is a real bad cheat, or just a bug. Or a bug that usually doesn't have any effect but can be exploited. Willingly or by bad connection.
But at least it looks like it can be fixed, at least in theory.
I think 1.10 should be postponed till this issue is resolved.
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Sounds more like a lag issue than a cheat. In my short time of return to this game, I havent seen the slightest evidence of cheating. Nothing that cant be explained in any one of the 100 misnomers that begrudged us on a daily basis in any online game.
Unless im horribly mistaken, id venture to guess that AH is in reality pretty much cheat free.
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The guy that shot me down is a fair player, and I would never accuse him of cheating. I know it was lag (or momentary server saturation, dunno), all I said was that it is annoying :)
Daniel
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Someone (can't remember who) had an ordeal the other night where an invisible plane was blowing up a town. Several people saw the event and I understand it was filmed.
Rocket exhaust was appearing out of thin air and the town was taking damage, but no aircraft or GV was visible.
Did whomever filmed this post the films?????
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I have experienced these 'ghost kills' at least twice now in the last two weeks. The first time was in a GV at a "V" base about two weeks ago and the second occurred last nite in a PT Boat. It is possible that I have experienced these ghost kills in flight but to date my 'deaths' have come in furballs and with so may cons around I could be missing the fact that I was killed by a dot!
In both cases there were absolutely no cons around me. I confirmed that icons were in the default 'normal icon mode' after the first kill by the 'ghost' Upon re-spawning I was killed immediately, again with no tracers or icons (only the sound of rounds hitting me) to indicate the presence of an enemy con. The nice thing about GVs is that things happens slow enough were you can do a little investigating when something like this occurs.
This whole deal with the Linksys routers sucks (see other posts on the issue). What sucks even more is folks using it to their advantage. They know it is happening because all they see are dots. IMHO it does not say much for them as individuals.
Obviously some will say 'it's your connection hawk' and I will tell you now that I run AH through Roadrunner (I don't use a cable router btw) and have had excellent ping times in the Main Arena.
I hope that HiTech et al are able to resolve this issue to everyone's mutual satisfaction because really for the first time in AH I am hearing more and more about AH being compromised and that the game has been hacked. In the past (both in WB and here) I have always deemed such talk as unfounded and without merit, but after these recent experiences I am beginning to have my concerns too.
Hawkeye
"The Original Flying Tigers"
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Originally posted by scspook
Sounds more like a lag issue than a cheat. In my short time of return to this game, I havent seen the slightest evidence of cheating. Nothing that cant be explained in any one of the 100 misnomers that begrudged us on a daily basis in any online game.
Unless im horribly mistaken, id venture to guess that AH is in reality pretty much cheat free.
Lag issue? Not a chance. I had my radiator shot out by something using the Klingon Cloaking Device last night. No one flying in my immediate area (and there were about 12 others) saw anything within 6k of us. Nothing, nada, zippo.
Likewise, I saw a B-17 disappear into thin air and reappear 5k further along. This Buff was on my side, so it wasn't a risk to me. Nonetheless, it happened. It didn't warp, it disappeared.
Let's not ignore the problem with discos. My squad had more discos this week than it did last tour. I have 9, seven of them in fighter mode, one in a 262. These have killed my K/D. It should be at 5.2/1, instead it's at 3.8/1. That simply won't cut it.
Ever since the router change, things in the MA have gone to crap for a great many of us. I don't have a problem in CT, or the TA. Nor do most others. It sounds to me like a classic case of fixing what wasn't broken, with the usual adverse result.
I hope they get a handle of this soon, 'cause like some others I've spoken with have stated, before I get seriously annoyed, I'll spend my time and money doing something else. When it ceases to be fun, it's gone......
Now, if you're not having a problem, I'm happy for you. However, I don't want to hear the robot apologists running out to say that this is a user problem. It isn't. Obviously HTC recognizes something is wrong or they wouldn't have polled us in the MA. BTW, everyone I talked to in my squad checked "poor" on the survey.
A quick edit to add something I had forgotten about. Last evening, I killed an Arado 234. It was pathetically easy, I rolled onto his 6 from the merge. There was no effort to avoid me, despite the fact that I had been at his 12 O'clock, easily seen before the merge. In the message buffer, the unfortunate 234 pilot asked me where I had come from. It just dawned on me that my Yak must have joined the invisible aircraft in the MA twilight zone. He didn't see me, because there was nothing to see. I'd rather not get kills THIS way. Please, HTC, get a handle on this.
My regards,
Widewing
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yep set up a mission the other night and during take off at least three aircraft were dissapearing and then reappearing without warp.they didnt zip about they just plain vanished.
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The invisable plane issue is one of lag or server overload in which case the server temporary sheds players to handle the load of the entire game. It's a pain in the arse despite which on-line game you are playing.:(
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Originally posted by AKWarp
Someone (can't remember who) had an ordeal the other night where an invisible plane was blowing up a town. Several people saw the event and I understand it was filmed.
Rocket exhaust was appearing out of thin air and the town was taking damage, but no aircraft or GV was visible.
Did whomever filmed this post the films?????
DJ111 and I both posted a bug report and sent the film(s) to HT. The film viewer does not show any enemy in the area.
I also have film of a pilot talking on open channel about how to do it, but this has already been reported to HTC (also in bug reports).
As far as disappearing and reappearing aircraft goes I don't believe it is related, but is instead a connection issue. I made six passes on a Spit last night (hitting each time) and he finally disappeared in a cloud of smoke. It was five minutes later that I got the kill. Gunnery was not effected, but it is unusual in that one pass is normally plenty.
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Ive never seen an invisible plane.
Ive never been shot down by bullets coming from nowhere.
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Yeager,
It has happened to me in the MA. No where esle. Was flying along, no cons in icon range then boom back into tower. Was watching the area pretty well and scanning constantly. Also wasn't just straight and level as I'd check below by rolling.
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Not to hijack the thread, but my experience last night was flying planes that were visibly totaled (missing wing, engine on fire [completely on fire]) with no loss of control, and the ability to continue acm's. Usually this condition lasted about 15 seconds before the plane would truly explode or do the death spiral. I pulled up my net connection and had great connection, less than 90 on ping, no white spikes.
This seemed to happen quite a bit around the heavily enbattled sectors (Knight land last night). Wondering if the server is not able to keep up with the terrain effects plus the multitude of planes over a base, and a CV off the shore. I know this doesn't have anything to do with frame rates, but at the same time as this, I lost 30 frames / second. Switched to a rear base and immediately my frame rate went back to normal.
Normally, I haven't seen anything like this (either in my own plane) or those around me. I am sure that a lot of vulchers were surprised when a plane that should be dead was still turning and firing :)
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NEVER encountered this phenom myself...
SKurj
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Interesting, though i now haven't played for 2 month, i know that problem.
Have had it about 3 times in my AH time. No enemy around, no radar con and not even an enemy sector bar visible and than "ping, ping, ping" i get hit and killed.
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i blame the cluttersheep!
:mad:
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Originally posted by Yeager
Ive never seen an invisible plane.
Heheheee :D
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I think I have but not sure. Just know nothing was suppose to be around then I ded.
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I think I have been a "ghost" plane twice. No net status, just froze. Text buffer working normally. No icons on any aircraft, friend or foe, just dots.
However, no matter how I tried, I couldn't close on the dots, so I don't know how these "ghost" planes shoot folks down. Maybe my state was just too far gone to id any ac. It only lasted about 1 to 2 minutes, then I disco.
Like Widewing, the router change has really porked the arena for me as well.
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Originally posted by Apache
I think I have been a "ghost" plane twice. No net status, just froze. Text buffer working normally. No icons on any aircraft, friend or foe, just dots.
However, no matter how I tried, I couldn't close on the dots, so I don't know how these "ghost" planes shoot folks down. Maybe my state was just too far gone to id any ac. It only lasted about 1 to 2 minutes, then I disco.
Like Widewing, the router change has really porked the arena for me as well.
That is the exact sequence of events I encounter before a disconnect. The worst part is that you know a disco is coming, and you can't even exit the airplane. Never happened before router change. With two more discos tonight, I'm a hair's breath from cancelling my account. I certainly don't need to spend money to get frustrated and angry. Moreover, I will not waste what spare time I have putting up with a sub-standard product, and sub-standard it is if I can't enjoy the service I pay for. Better fix it fast, I'm only one of many who feel this way.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing said:
That is the exact sequence of events I encounter before a disconnect. The worst part is that you know a disco is coming, and you can't even exit the airplane. Never happened before router change. With two more discos tonight, I'm a hair's breath from cancelling my account. I certainly don't need to spend money to get frustrated and angry. Moreover, I will not waste what spare time I have putting up with a sub-standard product, and sub-standard it is if I can't enjoy the service I pay for. Better fix it fast, I'm only one of many who feel this way.
LOL!! Deja vu all over again. Folks have said the exact same thing over the same or very similiar problems in AW and WB as far back as I can remember, which is 94 :). Not picking on WW here, it's this whole thread. "Wah wah, I'm getting dumped more than usual, which is RUINING MY SCORE, which is making me look bad in front of my Hated Enemas. My poor wittle ego can't stand the shame of being seen in public with a K/D below 4.0, so I'm gonna cancel my account, wah wah wah" :D
Guys, remember AH is just a game. When you get to the point where you consider quitting just because of an inevitable spate of the routine glitches common to all online gaming, you're taking it WAY too seriously. Have a few beers, maybe a valium, and get over it. We're talking about HTC here afterall, not Kesmai or iMagic. The problems will be solved, and shortly, never fear.
So devote the TD to doing off-the-wall stuff, just for FUN for a change, instead of for score, perks, coup, face, ego, bragging rights, or whatever all-consuming drive normally motivates you instead of the quest for fun in and of itself. If you get dumped, so what? It was fun while it lasted. If an invisible plane gets you, so what? What you were doing didn't matter anyway, and you'll have a story to shut the dweebs up with in the future when they start whining about whatever the next problem is.
That said, I do agree that there are problems at present with invisible nmes. I got killed by one tonight in a large tank battle near V64 on Mindinao. I could see several nme GVs on the slope below, at 1200-1600m based on where I was hitting them with the sight markings. However, none of them were shooting at me or at anything at all from what I could tell. Yet several friendly tanks near me died, and I never saw what hit them. There was certainly no plane overhead at that time.
Then I started hearing rounds hitting near me. But there was no tracer to see, nor did the impacts kick up dust and leave craters. After 4 or 5 such shots, with me in the turret hatch panning around frantically for their source, I took a hit. Fortunately, it did no damage and again I saw nothing at all and heard only the hit itself. So I moved some distance away. Shortly afterwards, the process repeated itself: a number of shots that sounded like near-misses but were totally invisible and left no mark, then a hit from an invisible shell. This one broke my tank but being puzzled, I stayed in it and tried to find the nme so I'd know where to look on my next hop. But again there was nothing to see. I took several more hits and eventually died, but never saw what got me.
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Originally posted by AKWarp
Someone (can't remember who) had an ordeal the other night where an invisible plane was blowing up a town. Several people saw the event and I understand it was filmed.
Rocket exhaust was appearing out of thin air and the town was taking damage, but no aircraft or GV was visible.
Did whomever filmed this post the films?????
Yes was posted. Actually I think they got about 9 different players films of same thing. This has been documented well, it is the Aces High version of Roswell Incident. Everything is secure now in AH Area 51, what they do with it we will never know :)
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The reason for the ghost is one side of the connect is not happening. Considering the clogged pipes we have, I can see why. New pipes otw.
Coach
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I was going to cover a C47 tonight. I was 600 yards from him. Poof. I rolled the plane. circled. Trying to see where he warped to. After a couple of min. of looking, I guessed that he had dicoed. Then I saw him. Looked like his path had not changed. He was 5.6 ahead of me. Just poofed than back on after a couple min.
In spite of being on the same side. An invisable C47 is just a little to handy.
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Originally posted by Bullethead
Widewing said:
LOL!! Deja vu all over again. Folks have said the exact same thing over the same or very similiar problems in AW and WB as far back as I can remember, which is 94 :). Not picking on WW here, it's this whole thread. "Wah wah, I'm getting dumped more than usual, which is RUINING MY SCORE, which is making me look bad in front of my Hated Enemas. My poor wittle ego can't stand the shame of being seen in public with a K/D below 4.0, so I'm gonna cancel my account, wah wah wah" :D
Guys, remember AH is just a game. When you get to the point where you consider quitting just because of an inevitable spate of the routine glitches common to all online gaming, you're taking it WAY too seriously. Have a few beers, maybe a valium, and get over it. We're talking about HTC here afterall, not Kesmai or iMagic. The problems will be solved, and shortly, never fear.
Back in 1994, discos could be expected. However, 8 years laters there's little ground for excuses. I have listened to IT guys say that HTC has far too little bandwidth for their needs. We also have a plague of discos, and it's beginning to annoy quite a few people. I had more this week than the whole of last tour. That's unsat. Especially when I know that it's not related to my equipment, or my ISP. Especially when it's isolated to the MA.
I don't play this game for amusement, as if it were an arcade game. I enjoy the competition more than anything. I practice and train to improve my K/D (the only score than means anything anyway) and break into the top 25 in terms of K/D. I'd be there but for the F%&$#@! discos. Some of us take the game seriously, because we take competition seriously.
Fix the problems HTC.
My regards,
Widewing
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Oh I guess it was about 2 months ago that I took off to hit a base with a C47 and noticed little dots flying around like UFO's.Always there but never IDable.I flew the goon to the base.Landed close to the base and when it was down sent them to the town.The troops were visable as they left the plane but the romulan cloking device shielded my devious bellybutton from sight.The troops fought and struggled trying to get back to the plane where they would be hidden from view but the years of Brainwashing and brew led them to there deaths.I was talking to Squadmates and was totally baffeled by what was going on.They couldnt see me and I could only see the dots.I Exited the plane and took off in a fighter.Same thing.Couldnt see a thing except for dots.
The same thing happened 1 other time when I was late taking off for a bomb run.I was egging the field and ack was shooting at me,but my squadies who were also bombing at the same time couldnt see me nor me them.Thats some bad lag.Apparently the ack still see's ya tho.
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Originally posted by Bullethead
LOL!! Deja vu all over again. Folks have said the exact same thing over the same or very similiar problems in AW
Was thinking the same myself, Bullethead... couldn't agree more. :)Guys, remember AH is just a game. When you get to the point where you consider quitting just because of an inevitable spate of the routine glitches common to all online gaming, you're taking it WAY too seriously.
Exactly - I tend to play most nights, with varying degrees of success, sometimes due to connection problems, but it never gets to a point that makes me threaten to cancel my account! :DSo devote the TD to doing off-the-wall stuff, just for FUN for a change,
LOL - reminds me of one occasion in AW where a major router was going down every 10 minutes, causing most people to disconnect. Rather than get pissed off, I tried to see how much I could do in 10 minutes.... I didn't have a lot of choice of where to up from, but discovered if I took off from a carrier in a B25 I had just enough time to fly to the nearest field under radar, only popping up to get over a hill and drop my bombload on the field before getting disconnected. It was great fun, especially when some of the Az caught on to what I was doing and kept trying to shoot me down... :DThen I started hearing rounds hitting near me. But there was no tracer to see, nor did the impacts kick up dust and leave craters.
Are you sure that wasn't the mannable ack gun? It was discovered during the Sicily scenario, that mannable ack guns do not show any tracers - but it certainly had us scratching our heads at the time! :)
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I would bet on hosed windows network software. Once in another flight sim, I crashed, re-upped and no one could see me. I flew around and marveled that I could see everyone, but no one could see me. About 4 minutes later, there was a kill message in the buffer "xyz killed AKcurly."
I asked xyz where he was located and he was miles away. I flew around 5 or 6 more minutes, expecting to die in a hail of lagged bullets, but nothing ever happened.
In similar fashion, maybe 1.5 years ago, I was in Aces High and saddled up on someone. They didn't attempt to evade. I don't recall who it was, but about 1 minute later, he said over arena-wide comms, "curly, where were you?" I was a good 25 miles from where he said I shot him down.
Windows networking software is REALLY bad code. It has to co-exist with other code and sometimes REALLY FREAKING weird stuff happens.
My $0.02 anyway. :)
curly
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Well, there is a problem though. Even though AH "is just a game", it is still a game we all pay $15 a month to enjoy. Some spend their $15 flying Spitfires and/or La7s, some spend their $15 killing FHs from 35k Lancs, some spend their $15 diving into the nearest furball with their guns blazing.
And that is all and well.
But NO ONE will spend their $15 on getting shot down by invisible planes, or shoot down others who cant see them. If you dont realize this, then you are in for a surprise. This invisible plane-bug is killing the game for everyone. How fun is a furball if you cant see half the planes? How fun is buffing if you get shot down by someone you cant see? How fun is lonewolfing if it turns out that during your latest successful bounce, you were completely invisible?
Fact is, the knowledge that there might be invisible planes out there, or even worse the fact that I cannot be sure that my aircraft is showing up on the other guys FE kills the gaming experience even now.
So yeah, I'd say this qualifies as a crisis.
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Here! Here! GRUNHERZ. I feel the same exact way. The other night i was flying along in my Dora, when all of a sudden, i head "Ping, ping, ping, ping". Tail fell off. As I was slowy falling down, i scaned the sky, saw nothing. Then i bailed out, again saw nothing. This invisable plane left me dumbfounded and confused. I have the confidence that HTC can fix it though :)
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I will not stand for this! My K/D went from a 1.21 to a 1.18!!
How can I claim my superior ability to the AH world if this continues? I need this K/D to prove I am one of the best! How can anyone have any respect for me without a impressive K/D??
These invisible planes are overthrowing the entire AH arena and have decreased my K/D by 0.03!
Please HTC! Please get rid of these diabolical invisible planes before they ruin my life fruther.
Thank you for your time and effort concerning this matter.
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I've also been shot down by something. Was 18K in the middle of Bishlandia...........heard hits......in tower.......you have been killed was the message. No credit given to anyone. Yes Virginia........there really is a UFO!:D
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Flossy said:
Are you sure that wasn't the mannable ack gun? It was discovered during the Sicily scenario, that mannable ack guns do not show any tracers - but it certainly had us scratching our heads at the time! :)
Yeah, I'm sure it wasn't that. The only ack in the sector, that at V64, was friendly and didn't have an LOS to me anyway. The battle was fought on the northern approaches of V64. V64 is on a plateau. If you drive north from the VH about 1/2 mile, you go over the edge into a long, wide valley running NNW between 2 mountain ranges. You can't see into this valley until you're at the edge of the plateau and I'd driven over the edge and about 1/2 mile down the hill to park on a tan area of ground for camouflage. And even from there, it was still like 2500m to the nme spawn point up the valley.
So I was like 1 mile from the nearest ack, that ack was friendly, and I was well below the edge of the plateau to it. Yet I and several colleagues all died for no apparent reason. I was the 4th kill of whoever got me. I wasn't filming and I didn't pay any attention to who got me because at the time I didn't know about the invisible nme issue. It wasn't until I came in here later that night that I saw this thread.
Invisibility cheats are nothing new. I've seen them a number of times over the years, in both DOS and Windows AW and now in AH (don't recall them in WB). I even got a guy busted in DOS AW for doing it--he made the mistake of bragging about it in progress, and you could see him on radar, just not in the air. And not only was he invisible, he was doing about Mach 2 :).
As for planes disappearing for a while, then reappearing further along, I've seen that before as well. Folks can interrupt their data flow to the host so for all intents and purposes they're not in the arena, fly along for a while on their FE, then reconnect to the host and thus reappear at their new place. Alternatively, they can also stop their FE, so that when they reappear it's in the same place they vanished, leading to you overshooting them and then finding them on your 6. There were a variety of ways to do these things in Windows AW and Kesmai could never quite figure out how to stop all of them.
On the subject of connection quality, that's definitely not a universal problem. I haven't suffered a real disco at all (IIRC) in the last 3 or 4 TDs. Of course, RL problems have limited me to 20-50 hops only each TD, but I'm also squad scorekeeper and I haven't seen many in my squad, either. Some of my squaddies always have a very high percentage, however.
For instance, run a squad score on me, BH3841. At present, we have 1 guy with 480 sorties but only 10 discos, one with 212 sorties and 0 discos, while another guy has 7 discos in only 15 sorties. I have 1 "disco" in 14 hops but that's on me, not the connection--my computer locked up once and I pulled the plug on it.
However, despite the fact that I don't get dumped, I do see a fair number of warps, but only really just beyond con range, not during fights. It's quite acceptable, people die when I hit them, I die when they shoot at me, and all seems pretty much normal, although I am seeing more dots warping than before. So when the "how is connection quality" poll came up, I answered it "good but not great".
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Originally posted by Swager
I will not stand for this! My K/D went from a 1.21 to a 1.18!!
How can I claim my superior ability to the AH world if this continues? I need this K/D to prove I am one of the best! How can anyone have any respect for me without a impressive K/D??
These invisible planes are overthrowing the entire AH arena and have decreased my K/D by 0.03!
Please HTC! Please get rid of these diabolical invisible planes before they ruin my life fruther.
Thank you for your time and effort concerning this matter.
You might not find it so amusing if you saw your K/D drop by 1.4 rather than 0.03. That's what I'm unhappy about. My complaint centers on discos more than invisible aircraft, although my Yak was damaged by a phantom fighter the other night. 5.2 down to 3.8 due entirely to discos is not a minor difference. I find it very annoying. Guys trying to crack the top 100 in overall score would find it unbearable.
My regards,
Widewing
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WW2Ol suffered from planes that wouldnt appear or would disappear due to the limitations on what the sim could see. Despite boasting of playing alongside 10000's players + I think the limit at any one time was 64. (Not complainin about this as I understand its a limitation inherent in all sims and they do it better than most)
However, how many can you physically see in AH? 32?
This would include I imagine any ground units below in that may be out of your field of view but present none the less. Is it possible the server drops one momentarily to accomodate another?
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I will not stand for this! My K/D went from a 1.21 to a 1.18!!
swager, swager, swager a 1.21 K?D? we know ya couldn't hit the broadside of a barn even if you was standin' inside of one! :p
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Widewing whined:
You might not find it so amusing if you saw your K/D drop by 1.4 rather than 0.03. That's what I'm unhappy about. ... 5.2 down to 3.8 due entirely to discos is not a minor difference. ... My complaint centers on discos more than invisible aircraft...
There are, of course, many known errors and inconsistencies in the results printed on the score pages for squads and pilots. As a result, it's kinda pointless to look at the K/D shown there. Take your score page for example. It shows the following for fighters:
K / D + 1 = 3.8148
103 kills
36 assists
94 sorties
62 landings
5 bails
2 ditches
4 captureds
13 deaths
8 discos
103 kills is unambiguous, so solving for "deaths" (as meant in the K/D formula) we get D = (103 / 3.8148) - 1 = 26
You have 13 actual deaths so we need 13 more fates that the K/D formula treats as deaths. IIRC from what HTC has said in the past, discos don't count as deaths, so that leaves bails, ditches, and captureds, and I don't think ditches are supposed to count, either. But in your case, those only add up to 11, not the 13 needed. In fact, for your there is no combination of non-landed, non-dead fates that equals the requried 13 except discos + bails.
This makes no sense. Why count bails but not captureds? Why count discos at all? Also, if that's how it's really working, it's in contradition to what HTC has said in the past. So there's obviously a bug in the formula. In which case, pay no attention to your score page. I recommend instead looking at your stats page. There, you've got 182 kills / 43 deaths = a real K/D of 4.23.
I recommend the stats page for figuring your K/D for a number of other reasons. First, the score page doesn't show kills of GVs unless you're in a GV, nor does it show kills scored as a ship/field gunner. Second, the stats page only shows deaths when somebody else got credit for killing you. So say you need to join a mission that's starting quickly and you've just taken off doing something else. Instead of making everybody wait while you rtb, you can just auger. If no nmes are around to get the manuever kill, it doesn't show as a death on the stats page, and thus doesn't affect a K/D computed therefrom.
In any case, I really don't think discos count as deaths for the K/D formula, or at least they ain't supposed to. If they were counted as deaths, why bother keeping track of them separately on the score page? You'll note that each sortie can only end in a limited number of ways, each of which is tracked separately. You can land, ditch, bail, get captured, die, or disco. If you add up the numbers in each of these separate fates, you get the same number as the total sorties. IOW, only 1 of the above happens to you each time you fly.
Way back in DOS AW, discos were lumped into actual deaths. This led to a lot of whining so eventually AW changed to counting discos as bails. Apparently AW was incapable of adding more separate fate types. Then WB started and IIRC, it always tracked discos separately and didn't count them as deaths for its K/D formula. If AH does, then I figure it's a bug in the score formula and not intentional.
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scspook said:
WW2Ol suffered from planes that wouldnt appear or would disappear due to the limitations on what the sim could see. Despite boasting of playing alongside 10000's players + I think the limit at any one time was 64. ... how many can you physically see in AH? 32?
This would include I imagine any ground units below in that may be out of your field of view but present none the less. Is it possible the server drops one momentarily to accomodate another?
Good suggestion, but this explanation would only come into play in big fights. It doesn't explain incidents of the "I'm flying along all by myself and BANG!" type, nor ones like mine when there were at most a dozen GVs total and maybe 2 or 3 planes in the area.
Gawd, I remember DOS AW and only being able to see 12 planes at a time. To mitigate this somewhat, you had control over which 12 you could see: the 12 closest in general, the 12 closest nmes, or the 12 closest friendlies. If you were in one of the latter 2 modes, and there were less than 12 of the selected type in viz range, you saw some of the other type as well. Talk about making scenarios a horror show! :eek:
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There have been a few times when I was shot down by a plane I'd have sworn wasn't there a few seconds before. I chalk it up to poor SA on my part or net lag.
A few times however I've upped and headed to an enemy base where I knew there was a raging dogfight. I saw no planes, neither enemy nor friendly. Out of curiosity I straffed the field ack and/or other buildings. Never was able to confirm if the damage I was causing was seen by anyone else.
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No no no. Captain Kirk went beck in time with his birdofprey and got trigger happy.
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I saw some weirdness the other day.I was rolling for a mission when I noticed one of the other guys showed as a PT boat.It took off from the base and a couple of minutes later it turned into a p38..Don't know if that's related to invisible planes which I have yet to see...
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Originally posted by Bullethead
K / D + 1 = 3.8148
103 kills
36 assists
94 sorties
62 landings
5 bails
2 ditches
4 captureds
13 deaths
8 discos
103 kills is unambiguous, so solving for "deaths" (as meant in the K/D formula) we get D = (103 / 3.8148) - 1 = 26
You have 13 actual deaths so we need 13 more fates that the K/D formula treats as deaths. IIRC from what HTC has said in the past, discos don't count as deaths, so that leaves bails, ditches, and captureds, and I don't think ditches are supposed to count, either. But in your case, those only add up to 11, not the 13 needed. In fact, for your there is no combination of non-landed, non-dead fates that equals the requried 13 except discos + bails.
This makes no sense. Why count bails but not captureds? Why count discos at all? Also, if that's how it's really working, it's in contradition to what HTC has said in the past. So there's obviously a bug in the formula. In which case, pay no attention to your score page. I recommend instead looking at your stats page. There, you've got 182 kills / 43 deaths = a real K/D of 4.23.
Way I understood it:
disco = .25 death (4disco = 1death)
bailed = 1death, and captured aren't counted cause if ya bailed near an enemy field (and didna get strafed in yer chute) it would be giving you 2 deaths each time ya were shot down and bailed out, then captured cause ya were closer to an enemy base than a friendly one
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Originally posted by Bullethead
Way back in DOS AW, discos were lumped into actual deaths. This led to a lot of whining so eventually AW changed to counting discos as bails. Apparently AW was incapable of adding more separate fate types. Then WB started and IIRC, it always tracked discos separately and didn't count them as deaths for its K/D formula. If AH does, then I figure it's a bug in the score formula and not intentional.
I know this, every time I suffer a disco, my K/D takes a hit. Whatever the formula is, or whether or not a bug exists in the computation, the ratio goes down with every disco. The only up side is that as the overall numbers go up, the % lost due to discos goes down by the same ratio. Therefore, the effect on the K/D is reduced.
BTW, that was not whining, it was pissing and moaning. There are subtle differences. ;)
My regards,
Widewing
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CavemanJ said:
Way I understood it:
disco = .25 death (4disco = 1death)
bailed = 1death, and captured aren't counted cause if ya bailed near an enemy field (and didna get strafed in yer chute) it would be giving you 2 deaths each time ya were shot down and bailed out, then captured cause ya were closer to an enemy base than a friendly one
That still don't add up to the required 26 to make his K/D work out to the posted figure. 13 actual deaths + 2 for discos + 5 bails + 2 ditched = 22, not 26.
Hmm, the difference here is 4. So assuming you're right and discos = 1/4 of a death, the only way WW can have the K/D he's got is if his 4 captureds were thrown in as well.
That must be the case. Think about it. The total number of sorties = the sum of all landings, ditches, bails, captureds, deaths, and discos. Thus, none of his fates are double-counted. If he gets captured, it goes in that category and not also into bailed as well. So bascially, the scoring works differently for the killer and the victim. You get a kill immediately when your target bails, but his fate isn't decided until he ends the hop by getting killed or .esquealing. Then the host decides whether it's a bail, death, or a capture for him. Thus, no double dip score penalty for bailing, just the shame of having admitted defeat ;)
Thanks for pointing that out about the discos. Now maybe I'll have more confidence in the score page, although the other day it was still showing me as the #1 buffer even though I didn't have a buff sortie to my name :).
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Hortlund said:
But NO ONE will spend their $15 on getting shot down by invisible planes, or shoot down others who cant see them. If you dont realize this, then you are in for a surprise. This invisible plane-bug is killing the game for everyone.
Kids these days :D A measly $15/month is getting this type of response now. Geez, I seem to remember not too long ago when it was about twice that for AH. And if you think that's bad, try $6-7 per HOUR, in 1994 dollars, for a much inferior product. Or even a "mere" $2-2.50 per hour. Even with that, you could still get your monthly bill well over $100 without trying too hard.
And those games had exactly the same problems AH has now, and all online games will always have: warps, blinks, and occasional hackers or the discovery of new cheats. No escape from it, so just be thankful you're not on G*sux where it would have cost you real bucks ;).
Fact is, the knowledge that there might be invisible planes out there, or even worse the fact that I cannot be sure that my aircraft is showing up on the other guys FE kills the gaming experience even now.
Well, let's see. When you log on, you know how many guys are in the arena. From past experience, you know how much visible action that number of players will cause in the arena. I haven't noticed any decrease there, so I'd say at least 99% of the population is always visible to me. And I seem to be that way to them, because they keep shooting me down with alarming frequency. .
So if no other explanation for the strangeness is discovered and invisible planes are real, there can't be very many of them. Thus, the odds of you encountering one is probably much less than that of meeting a 262. Thus, no need to be so worried. If that's a crisis to you, then I really wonder how you manage to face up to the realworld, serious risks involved just in driving your car every day.
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I've only been shot down by an invisible plane once.
I was pulling up on an enemy fighter with about 16 other Knights and we were all zooming in for the kill. I pulled up and started spraying from about 2.5 back hoping for a lucky shot...
about 6 of my countrymen flew in front of me directly through my stream so I let off the trigger eventually.
About 5 seconds later an invisible plane tore the back end off of my Typhoon.
I think he must have had a bad connection or something.
DmdKanth
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Originally posted by SirLoin
I saw some weirdness the other day.I was rolling for a mission when I noticed one of the other guys showed as a PT boat.It took off from the base and a couple of minutes later it turned into a p38..Don't know if that's related to invisible planes which I have yet to see...
I've watched a chute take off :D
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LAst night as the Bish got slammed Lazer took a mission to 11.As I circled to make the second pass on ack I saw...ON the ack a P38 which dissapeared as I started to fire.The 38 was a manned gun.Kinda strange.Ive never seen that one.It wasnt there as I dove and for abotu 3 seconds it was.Then it was gone.Twilight zone stuff.:D
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Lol Kanth i think you just discovered Killshooter :D
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never been killed by 'invisible' planes...
plenty of GV's have tagged me when I wasn't paying attention tho
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Originally posted by Bullethead
I recommend instead looking at your stats page. There, you've got 182 kills / 43 deaths = a real K/D of 4.23.
There are built-in error factors here too. It adds in kills as a Ships Gunner, kills in GVs, kills of GVs and so on. It also does not distinguish between real kills and proximity kills. All of these distort the record.
For this reason I try to keep detailed records on paper. This gives me a better perspective on what I'm actually doing. Here's the breakdown for the two aircraft I fly the most.
For example, When flying the Yak-9U, I'm 58/6. I can break down the 6 as follows (from memory, I'm at the office right now):
2 lost to bomber's guns.
1 Vulched on rearm pad.
1 lost to Flak Panzer.
1 lost to P-51 while landing deadstick (out of gas)
1 Auger, trying to get position on enemy fighter.
I can break down the 58 to:
1 M3
2 LVTs
55 aircraft
Likewise for the P-51B, 36/7.
2 lost to enemy fighters
3 lost to Ship ack
1 lost to field ack
1 lost to Bomber guns
36 breaks down to:
36 aircraft.
This method provides me with a better idea of how I stack up against enemy aircraft. Now, if I avoided the risk of ack, flak and bombers, I'd have a stellar K/D. Avoiding risk goes a long way to padding the K/D ratio. However, I don't mind that risk if it helps the cause, so to speak. I also fly a lot of attack missions, which usually results in more losses. By keeping detailed records, I can develop a clear picture of my performance. Nonetheless, discos still annoy the hell out of me. In the two aircraft I fly the most, I have a 7/1 K/D.
Others:
Bf 109G-6: 16/2 (Fighter/Jabo)
P-38L: 9/5 (Jabo)
N1K2: 14/5 (Jabo)
P-47D-30: 5/0 (HQ Cap)
Typhoon: 10/3 (Jabo)
Mossy: 4/0 (HQ Cap)
Spitfire IX: 1/1 (Fighter)
F6F: 1/1 (Jabo)
F4U-1: 2/0 (Fighter)
Yak-9T: 2/1 (Jabo)
Me 262: 3/0 (Fighter)
Tempest: 2/0 (Fighter)
P-51D: 1/1 (Jabo)
F4U-1C: 5/2 (Jabo/Fighter)
Zero: 1/2 (Fighter)
IL-2: 2/2 (Jabo)
GVs: 10/5
PT: 2/3
Fw 190A5: 11/0 (Fighter/Jabo)
Fw 190D9: 3/1 (Fighter)
La-7: 8/1 (Fighter)
Ki-61: 1/0 (Fighter)
Bf 109G-10: 1/1 (Fighter)
Obviously, the Jabo role carries greater risks than fighter sorties. It would be easy to avoid risk, but terribly dull too.
My regards,
Widewing
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No no, I'm sure it was discovered well before I came along :)
DmdKanth
Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Lol Kanth i think you just discovered Killshooter :D
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I believe there is an elementary error in the way you calculated your k/d ratio.
the formula is Kills/(deaths + 1) and not (Kills/Deaths) + 1. This makes a big difference and avoids division by zero.
Also, I believe that disconnects count as 1/2 a death, rather than 1/4 death.
So, if you've had 30 kills and no deaths or discos, then your k/d is 30. However, if you've had one death, no disco's and 30 kills, your k/d is 15. If, on the other had you've had thirty kills, no deaths and one disco, then your k/d is 20.
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Good Gawd.If I spent that much time worrying about my score I wouldnt have any fun :rolleyes:
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I am reminded of a clock, that a man built a few centuries back. It was a series of cannon that were set apart by timed fuse. They would go off every 15 minutes. It was a tad cumbersome.
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Voss said:
I believe there is an elementary error in the way you calculated your k/d ratio.
Look again :D
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Widewing said:
There are built-in error factors here too. It adds in kills as a Ships Gunner, kills in GVs, kills of GVs and so on. It also does not distinguish between real kills and proximity kills. All of these distort the record.
Yeah, there are problems with all the scoring web pages. They don't agree with each other because they all count different things, some of them count the same things in different ways, or they use them differently in a formula. And there's damn little clarifying info available to help you figure out why there are these differences and how to translate one page's numbers into another page's numbers.
I don't think any page, however, makes a distinction between guns kills and auger kills. Unlike fates, where the score page tracks 6 different ways your hop can end, it only shows 1 line for kills in general and another for assists. Maybe it just doesn't show auger kills at all, only guns kills. But in that case, why bother awarding you an auger kill at all?
Still, that's definitely a possibility. I know the score page already doesn't show all your kills. As you point out, ship gunner kills don't show on that page at all. Also, it seems that the score page doesn't show kills of GVs scored while flying a plane. I've checked for this a number of times in my own case and am pretty sure that's the case.
Who knows? I guess you just have to go with what you're comfortable with. I prefer the stats page because I know it shows all kills I score. If I don't feel like counting my ship gunner kills, because I'm at so little risk doing that, the total is clearly denoted and can be subtracted out. Plus, the only deaths it counts are somebody got a kill on me. No discos, no augers in friendly territory to get to a mission quickly, etc. Of course, I only bail like once every couple months to participate in a squadron awards or induction ceremony inside a hangar, so don't really care about all the different fates on the score page.
For this reason I try to keep detailed records on paper.
Geez, you sound like me :). I kept a logbook of all my sorties for the 1st several months I flew AW, and until the end of both my AW and WB careers, I kept a complete list of everybody I'd shot down and what we were both flying at the time. I was more into keeping track of nme pilots than kill numbers per se--it was a Hate thing :mad: In those games, you could pull up a "dance card" showing all your recent victims and it was so much fun to post screen shots of it showing how you'd spanked some Hated Enema 8 times in a row, or wiped out a whole Hated squad. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find such a dance card in AH so I've quit keeping this record :( Damn, I miss that.
Also, I quite often miss it when I get auger kills. Then I finally shoot somebody down and it says he's kill #3 or whatever, so it's impossible to reconstruct what happened without total dedication to filming and taking the time to watch them all.
I guess what you're saying is that you just write down your guns kills and ignore the augers? Do you do that every time? For instance, I never fired a shot in what I consider one of my better ACM fights. I got caught low and slow in a Jug by an La7 but, after making him bleed by turning nose-to-tail on him for several passes, he ended up stalling at low alt :D I figure I earned a kill for that so if I was keeping records like you, I'd count that one even though it was an auger.
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The two biggest things to help us find these types of problems is film and asking the person who shot you down what he saw, where he was, etc. Film filters out most complaints because once somebody watches the film and sees that it wasn't an invisible plane that shot them down, they don't report it. If it is legit, then it gives us something to work with. The second part comes with not assuming anything. Was it really that the guy who shot you down was invisible? Perhaps, but who knows without inquiring? Maybe he was on the opposite side of the arena and the host incorrectly sent you damage that was meant for someone else. Perhaps he would tell you that he simply translated a lot of speed into climbing up your low six for the shot. I don't know and won't without more to go on. What I do know is that when something gets reported, it makes everybody feel vulnerable to it. It's like when the West Nile virus broke out in a handful of cases in New York. How many people do you think started coming down with symptoms of that after it was reported. It wasn't non-existant, but it wasn't an epidemic either.
Anyway, the quickest solution to a problem like this is to get it on film and send it to support@hitechcreations.com and to talk to the other guy. Even if you don't have a film, talking to the other guy can shed a lot of light on it for us or you or all of us.
If the opportunity presents itself, I spend the effort to try to sneak up on my opponents without ever being seen. That doesn't mean I was invisible, nor does it mean that that kind of bug can't exist.
As to scoring, it obviously is important or we wouldn't have spent much effort on providing it. That doesn't mean it's going to be or should be important to everyone, but at least there is that option. It is one of the many games within the game. Whether you measure your golf game in beers or strokes is irrelevant as to how you enjoy it as long as you don't destroy the enjoyment of others. The game can be played both ways. I flew a sortie tonight for the first time this tour while in a Yak-9T from a busy base. Shot down some people and landed. Had a good time but wanted to check my score online and then go to the webpage and check to see if it was updating on the fly. I looked up my score and it was there, but I noticed I was #1 in kills/time with a 34 kills per hour rating. Now it obviously doesn't mean anything after 1 sortie, but nevertheless it made me feel good for a moment. Normally I feel like Mike Tyson did against Lewis where it used to be easy but now I just get my butt kicked. But it reminded me of days past when I would define, at least for awhile, how I flew based on how my score started. I could challenge myself to see how many kills per hour I could maintain. I could see how many kills I could get without a death. I could see how many kills per sortie or deaths I could maintain. In reality, I'll probably just go back to work, but at least I'll think, thanks to scoring, that I could've been a contender.
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Awesome Pyro.. let's score with beers !!!!
jk
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I still haven't seen an invisible plane!
I've been looking!
Last night I flew around for 3 hours looking for the invisible plane, no joy!
I must be doing something wrong. What do they look like anyways??
Any assistance in this area would be deeply appriciated.
Thank You!! :)
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Thanks for the response Pyro!
But I do have one some things to add in mind with what you said. :)
First I could not not have "talked to the other guy" because I got a message "YOU HAVE BEEN KILLED", no name who killed me.
My plane just got cut in half and set on fire in mid air.
It was over open water, and no CV or PT boats were around.
Nobody came from under me and zoomed up as we were at pretty low alt.
I was dead before I hit the water.
Nobody crashed into me, as the con was in front of me and I just blew him apart. ( an N1K2J :) )
Thats pretty damn wierd Pyro.... :(
Now Pyro I hardly ever run film at all, do you suggest I film every sortie?
And another thing, what do you know about the effect of this "Linksys" or something like that, device. It has been reported as being connected with the invisible planes.
Thanks!
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Well in light of your details, I'll say that's what I meant by not assuming anything. You got killed, but nobody killed you. If it was an invisible plane, why didn't they get credit? Now I don't have an answer for you right now, but I am trying to point out how easy it is to send us down the wrong road or to get others barking up the wrong tree.
On the film issue, if this is not something that just happened out of the blue, I would recommend recording your flights. We do plan to put in an autorecord option, but that's not available yet.
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GRUNHERZ said:
First I could not not have "talked to the other guy" because I got a message "YOU HAVE BEEN KILLED", no name who killed me.
My plane just got cut in half and set on fire in mid air
Hmmm. I've only seen that "YOU HAVE BEEN KILLED" message when I auger an undamaged ride so far back in friendly territory that nobody's around to collect an auger kill. So a death for me but no kill for anybody else.
I think your details have cleared the matter up now. Obviously, you've discovered an Easter Egg! AH, in its quest for the ultimate in simulating WW2 flying, has included gremlins that periodically destroy an otherwise perfectly good plane :D
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Now Pyro I hardly ever run film at all, do you suggest I film every sortie?
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Pyro,
having an option to have the film enabled only when firing guns would be cool option.
Sort of like a real gun camera might have worked.
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Hmmm. I've only seen that "YOU HAVE BEEN KILLED" message when I auger an undamaged ride so far back in friendly territory that nobody's around to collect an auger kill. So a death for me but no kill for anybody else.
But I did not auger, I got cut in half and set on fire in midair...
And Pyro what about this Linksys thing? I has been connected to "invisible planes" by some people.
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we've got to protect our phoney-baloney scores gents!!
we must end the invisible plane menace now!
lets all not fly till it's fixed!!
(2 weeks later, normal arena numbers a comfy 250 at peak)
ok guys, they got it whipped!! you can come back now!!
(2 weeks later arenas's back to 450 at peak)
HEY!! WTF!! I THOUGHT THEY FIXED THIS!!!
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I tore the wings off a Tiffy one time certain I was under the speed needed to do that.It basdicly tore me in half.Wonder if maby that might have happend here due to some fluke.On asnother note pyro and slightly off topic.In Air warrior there was an Option at the end of a flight you filmed that said.You have recorded a film.Do you wish to keep it. You could also name it at that time.It was a nice option.Any way we could incorporate that into AH?
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Invisible planes? Here is my experience about the subject.
Two months ago I was fighting against a C205, I hit him really hard, no way to survive that. I saw the C205 going down (in fact diving) and supposed it was done, so I go away trying to get some alt. Few minutes later I haven't received any kill award but, suddenly, from nowhere, BANG BANG BANG and while I was going down in flames I got the kill award of that 205 at the same time he got a kill award of me.
Later, talking with the C205 pilot he told me that he saw my tracers going directly to him too late, but, for some reason, he was still alive and undamaged and deciced to dive away, then he recovered alt in a zoom, and fired me at my dead six. To his surprise, no damage was done to my plane but he had speed only for that burst so he broke and headed his home base. Few minutes later he received the damage of my previous burst and few seconds after that I received his impacts, both of us were destroyed with nobody nearby.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Invisible planes? Here is my experience about the subject.
Two months ago I was fighting against a C205, I hit him really hard, no way to survive that. I saw the C205 going down (in fact diving) and supposed it was done, so I go away trying to get some alt. Few minutes later I haven't received any kill award but, suddenly, from nowhere, BANG BANG BANG and while I was going down in flames I got the kill award of that 205 at the same time he got a kill award of me.
Similar weirdness last night:
I'm flying a Bf 109G6, with gondolas. For those who don't know, that's one 30mm, two 20mm and two 13mm guns. That's a fearsome amount of firepower, by any standard. I had just dropped a 250 kilo bomb on a Knit field and was climbing out to provide a BuffCap over our nearby CV.
Passing 21k, I spot a Tempest heading for the CV at about 15k. So, down I go. Seeing me coming the Tempest pilot does a split-s and dives away. I simply ease out and begin my climb again. Well, the Tempy pilot must have been feeling cocky, because he climbs, following me. Well, the 109 climbs really well and he's not closing the range, still back about 5k, 2k or so below. I figure that now is a good time to reverse, because I'll have a considerable E advantage coming back on him.
So, what does this taterhead do? He sets up for an HO. He's going to put his 70 perks on the line trading fire. Not especially bright in my estimation, but hey, it's his funeral and his perks. I open fire at D1.0 and score hits immediately. As the range drops to pointblank, the Tempest explodes. However, his Hizookas shoot off my left wingtip. I ease out of the dive, the 109 barely controllable. Having very little experience with 109s, I'm surprised how badly it handles without that few feet of wing. I decide to ease over to our CV and bail, rather than try to fight my way through the crowd of Bish at A41 to make a landing attempt. After I bailout successfully, I check my stat and score pages. There's no indication of a loss in my K/D, no credit for the Tempest either….. Huh? I saw no indication in the message buffer that either of us received a kill or killed notice. Strange indeed.
I continued flying the 109G6 for another sortie. I was surprised how effective the little fighter is if you apply strict energy tactics. Ultimately, I finished my three sorties with 7 kills and no losses, rather than the 8 kills and 1 loss I expected. Typically for this type of aircraft, kills included a Lanc and B-17. Plus two PTs, two F4U-1Ds and a single Bf 110G2. That dead Tempest must reside in airplane never-never land. :D
My regards,
Widewing
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must have something to do with the "Area 51" map :)
I didn't see the plane but the pilot looked just like this:
(http://www.ufo-store.com/img29.gif)
:)
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Originally posted by Widewing
I'm flying a Bf 109G6, with gondolas. For those who don't know, that's one 30mm, two 20mm and two 13mm guns.
Widewing
Ugggggggggggg
Try flying the g6 or g10 without gondolas and 30mm
performance hit from those extra 20 guns plus the different rof makes them almost pointless on that a/c :)
109F4 and G2 with gondolas ok. g6 and g10 no!
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Originally posted by moose
Ugggggggggggg
Try flying the g6 or g10 without gondolas and 30mm
performance hit from those extra 20 guns plus the different rof makes them almost pointless on that a/c :)
109F4 and G2 with gondolas ok. g6 and g10 no!
I flew it with and without the gondolas. Ironically, I killed a B-17, Lanc and two PTs without them, two F4Us and a 110G2 with them. ;) Both Corsairs were CoE and CoAlt (around 22k, 350 mph). Both died via severe off-angle deflection shots. A fully armed G6 is a snapshooting monster.
I think I figured out what happened to the Tempest, maybe....
We were near my country's CV and within ack range. Perhaps, the ship ack exploded the Tempest as I was shooting at it. Other than that, I can't think of another reason for the odd result.
My regards,
Widewing
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Had some wierdness the other night shooting down a b26. I shotoff it's wingtip and tail but it continued to fly as if nothing had happened- and still shooting at me...grrrrr. About 2 mins later it went into a death dive as if it had just taken the damage, to him it may have looked like an invisible con but it was lag- got it on film too, it's pretty funny.
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I didn't believe until this has happend to me.
Less than an hour ago, at about 10:15 eastern.
I heve sent the film to support@hitechcreations.com.
I it is amazingly neat and clear.
A P51 at 850 yds on my 12 o'clock, passes my left wing and vanishes, some pings are heard but nothing on my 6, 3 seconds after the first pings a P51 apears 400 yds . on my 6 and continue there until the kill. The name of the awarded is in the text buffer, but there were others planes around and I cant certify is the same pilot in the P51.
The server was runnig smooth and there were 49+34+35 players, and no more than a dozen arround me.
Forgot to talk to the other guy though.
Originally posted by Pyro
....Anyway, the quickest solution to a problem like this is to get it on film and send it to support@hitechcreations.com and to talk to the other guy. Even if you don't have a film, talking to the other guy can shed a lot of light on it for us or you or all of us.
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Today in a suicide dive on a CV in a F4UD I dropped and ran.I was amazed to live through it and 2 mins later as I flew alon with nothing nearby I explode.Checked Que and it was outta sight.WHo knows.Area 51 map stuff
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Originally posted by DrDea
Today in a suicide dive on a CV in a F4UD I dropped and ran.I was amazed to live through it and 2 mins later as I flew alon with nothing nearby I explode.Checked Que and it was outta sight.WHo knows.Area 51 map stuff
Had something like this last night. Lanc was 5k ahead of me, then 5k behind me, then 5 k ahead of me again. I checked net status and found huge spikes in variance of delay and que time. This has become commonplace in recent days. Finally, the spikes settled down and I was able to bag the Lanc, once I knew where it was for sure. It was like chasing a shadow.
My regards,
Widewing
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No, the pilot who killed me wasn't the P51, but it is easy to find his name.
Checked my film with the ahfilm utility I have found the names of all flying arround, only one P51 there, and even you can "jump" in the cockpit of this P51, just to see again how "you" (the P51) exites the scene and re-enter at the six of the "enmy" (me) 109.
Good program the ahfilm!, I haven't use it before. Very nice.
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I've a question about AH films : they record what happen on your FE no ?
So why should this P51 have another behaviour than what you've
seen online ?
In fact I only trust HTC about film interpretation
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For what it’s worth, I never see odd stuff that I recall.
Since the MA connect has cleared up considerably in the last month, there WAS lotsa warpage, but I didn’t find that odd other than it wasn’t the norm prior to the AW exodus. Certainly not any cheats. Anyway, I usually film when going into a fight for various reasons.
2 nights ago I was flying with Central dragging some planes around (which is half the fun of the Dora), and looking back at the cons at 1.0 after they bit. 1.0 went to 1.2, to 1.4, I was laughing wondering why they were still there at 1.6 setting up the next BnZ E run which would be good whine inducing kills turning the tables.
Then “CRACK, ping boom” times 4 in a split second, TOWER.
Someone got the kill message, and open channeled me to the tune of “Bet you didn’t see that Creamo.” I certainly was doing a full time straight check 6 drag amusing look, and I positively hadn’t seen him. I thought I had ran right into a GV in drag mode. Then I read all this invisible plane BBS stuff. So I checked the scores. Scores say no GV kills.
Hmmm, maybe a high out of range plane came down seems plausible. Dunno, was impaired beings 1 of the last flights of the night on a weekend.
Point is, it’s the 1st time I was so miffed on SA.
Then to read related “invisible” threads that seemed to coincide what I found odd, might just be a coincidence. He pry was high and whipped my ass.
If it was a invisible plane, he knew it.
Stew on that.
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Yes, there are invisible planes in here. When Bishops reported rockets showing up at A8 Mindy map, I went to the town in an Osty.
After watching the base flash for about 10 minutes, I looked up and paratroopers were appearing in the sky with no C47 visible.
This was reported in bug forum but I did not get a picture of it.
DJ111 asked me several times if I was kidding and went to A8 when I convinced him I wasn't.While there he saw rockets with no plane and got a proximity kill on some one neither one of us saw.
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Originally posted by Widewing
You might not find it so amusing if you saw your K/D drop by 1.4 ............5.2 down to 3.8 due entirely to discos is not a minor difference.
5.4 to 3.8 with only 12 discos, I don't think so. The only way this could happen is if it was very early in the tour. Then all discos had to happen in a 1 or 2 day period. I personnally don't have much of problem with discos, so don't fully understand the frustration i guess.
At least state the facts honestly. No way has discos dropped your K/D 1.4.....from past tours scores I see no evidence of a 5.4 being sustainable
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Well... last night i filmed the first occurence of an invisible plane i have ever encountered....
An La7 attacks a buff from lo 6. The buff opens up on him, and gets him smoking, he vanishes!! ... but!! I notice the buff is still shooting, and tracks something from its lo 6 to lo 12. The la7 then reappeared and went boom.
Obviously the buff could see the con, but it vanished on my fe
SKurj
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Originally posted by AKWarp
Someone (can't remember who) had an ordeal the other night where an invisible plane was blowing up a town. Several people saw the event and I understand it was filmed.
Rocket exhaust was appearing out of thin air and the town was taking damage, but no aircraft or GV was visible.
Did whomever filmed this post the films?????
Ever seen lag so bad that some gents launch from beside the CV?
Ever seen the CV gun tracers depart from some rediculous spot a mile to the side/rear/front of the CV when you're looking right at it?
I have.
I've also seen planes move at mach 12 (dar dot included) across the sky, and end on my six or someone elses.
I chock it up to TERRIBLE lag.
Sometimes I can tell it's on my ISP/TELCO end, but usually, it happens when the arena is loaded up and a great many people are in the same field of view.
We've been complaining for months about issues that all point in the same direction.
Next time you see "invisible plane" evidence, check the roster and see how many people are on board. I'll bet it's high.
Viper
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Originally posted by BigGun
5.4 to 3.8 with only 12 discos, I don't think so. The only way this could happen is if it was very early in the tour. Then all discos had to happen in a 1 or 2 day period. I personnally don't have much of problem with discos, so don't fully understand the frustration i guess.
At least state the facts honestly. No way has discos dropped your K/D 1.4.....from past tours scores I see no evidence of a 5.4 being sustainable
That was based upon the misunderstanding that a disco = 1 death. It turns out that it equals only 0.5 deaths. Therefore the difference should be rightly halved. This still adds 4.5 deaths against 103 kills, plus actual deaths. So if I had 22 deaths +1 +4.5 we have 27.5. 103/27.5 = 3.74 103/23 = 4.47, or roughly half of the 1.4. No dishonestly involved.
As to sustainable K/D, don't kid yourself, maintaining 4.0 is easy if you decide that this is one's priority. If I flew the Yak all tour, avoided bombers, GVs and ack (like some do), I could double that with ease. With ease. Hell, almost anyone could. It would be as boring as hell, but not especially difficult. Careful flying, good SA and a healthy dose of running can generate wildly high K/Ds.
My regards,
Widewing
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Understand now I think...just sounded little overstated. I can see if K/D is important to ya, would be frustrating to get bunch of discos. I guess I am glad I only get a few a month.
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Originally posted by BigGun
Understand now I think...just sounded little overstated. I can see if K/D is important to ya, would be frustrating to get bunch of discos. I guess I am glad I only get a few a month.
It's important to me, but not an obcession. As I've stated, getting the K/D up isn't hard. Doing it like Mathman and Leviathn, mostly in furballs, that's impressive.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Apache:
I think I have been a "ghost" plane twice. No net status, just froze. Text buffer working normally. No icons on any aircraft, friend or foe, just dots.
However, no matter how I tried, I couldn't close on the dots, so I don't know how these "ghost" planes shoot folks down. Maybe my state was just too far gone to id any ac. It only lasted about 1 to 2 minutes, then I disco.
Like Widewing, the router change has really porked the arena for me as well.
I have experienced this exact thing a few times now, although not since I rebuilt my system. I had wondered how I appeared on other's FMS, not that I was a threat, as you noted the dots were unapproachable. I guess we must have been invisible to others as we would have been easy pickings, then again maybe we were flying around in a wingless, flaming wreck on their FMs.
Its weird how the text buffer keeps working.
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"In fact I only trust HTC about film interpretation"
Thats a good way to put it. I have filmed cons that were warping like mad. On play back they were smooth as silk. I don't trust film much after that. They likely know more about what they are looking at.
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I filmed an invisible plane tonite!! It was Spof! He told me he was right behind me, so I filmed it! I check the film but I did not see him which proves he was in an invisible plane!
Sorry Spof but I ratted ya out!!
Funny thing is he did not shoot me! Huh?
:)
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i checked the film i made of the invisible la7... i didn't start filming until he dissappeared. Only prob is .. in the film the la7 is visible
+(
SKurj
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i checked the film i made of the invisible la7... i didn't start filming until he dissappeared. Only prob is .. in the film the la7 is visible
Skurj and anyone else,
If you filmed an anomaly go ahead and send it in even if the film doesn’t show what you saw in game. Describe what you saw in game even if its different that what the film shows. There might be some smoothing going on. I’m sure there is additional information in the film than what is visible to the user through the player. I’m sure they have magical spells to extract out additional information from a film. Combining your description against the data in the film might be what they need.
Regards,
Wab
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Its weird how the text buffer keeps working.
Well, I'd bet a sixpack that text is transmitted tcp and positional data udp. So its possible that non-garunteed udp packets are getting dropped or held up while the tcp text is getting through.
Just a WAG. (Wild bellybutton Guess)
Regards,
Wab
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That's how it works Wab... UDP is a one shot dealy, and aircraft updates are a one shot dealy... because if TCP transmissions get held up, you'll get some less than stellar results with aircraft if a packet that didn't make it before the next packet did... and then it arrives out of order, well the plane will go back real quick to that update... then shoot back to the next update.
That's why you receive messages despite no aircraft updates, when you log in- you'll get text... and if your connection isn't recieving UDP, it'll say "UDP not responding, switching to TCP".. but the whole time you receive text messages.
-SW
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1) Does anyone have Arena #s when this occurs (individual bish/rook/knights # and sum for a total)?
2) Has anyone seen this problem in an arena other than the MA?
3) Does the problem occur when really large groups of planes are within dot range or less?
These might be good info for HTC to work with to fix the problem.
Just curious,
Jarbo
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Originally posted by jarbo
1) Does anyone have Arena #s when this occurs (individual bish/rook/knights # and sum for a total)?
2) Has anyone seen this problem in an arena other than the MA?
3) Does the problem occur when really large groups of planes are within dot range or less?
These might be good info for HTC to work with to fix the problem.
Just curious,
Jarbo
If yuo read litle upward om the thread you may find:
I didn't believe until this has happend to me.
Less than an hour ago, at about 10:15 eastern.
I heve sent the film to support@hitechcreations.com.
I it is amazingly neat and clear.
A P51 at 850 yds on my 12 o'clock, passes my left wing and vanishes, some pings are heard but nothing on my 6, 3 seconds after the first pings a P51 apears 400 yds . on my 6 and continue there until the kill. The name of the awarded is in the text buffer, but there were others planes around and I cant certify is the same pilot in the P51.
The server was runnig smooth and there were 49+34+35 players, and no more than a dozen arround me.
This does for your # 1 & 3 questions.
# 2 I can't answer.
For straffo and easymo, to say that the films shows EXACTLY the same as was observed on-line, I was filming long before the P51 vanished. You see the same scenes in Film viewer and in AHFILM program.
Pyro has not answer yet but he must have got the film.
Some guys request a film to prove something, and when you get it they DON'T TRUST the film. LOL.
This has been my first and unique experience in this matter and was pretty skeptical about it before.
I have no any opinion about the causes. Dont state anything. Just wanted to help HTC in solving the case with what I experienced, not to convince anybody here.
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Originally posted by Morsa
For straffo and easymo, to say that the films shows EXACTLY the same as was observed on-line, I was filming long before the P51 vanished. You see the same scenes in Film viewer and in AHFILM program.
I just pointed the fact that we are not sharing exactly the same view (aka each FE show is own view) and so I'm not surprised that the film show the same think you've seen online.
My question is will the other guy FE / film show the same thing ?
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I have a question. What happens if your FE receives correct pos updates of a "invisible" plane but with a wrong plane number? For example, in front of you there is a La7 (lets suppose plane id 15), but due some kind of bug, your FE is receiving pos updates of a plane with -1435 id in front of you. It is clear that your FE will not be able to "draw" the plane type -1435, but will be able to draw its tracers, smoke, etc. That may explain why some people see tracers, rockets, etc comming from a clear sky.
In any case, this seems a problem related to the FE. As posted by some players, while a plane may be invisible for you, it may be perfectly visible for your wingman flying side to side.
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Nice hypothese Mandoble but that's the reason why CRC was invented :
to check the integrity of data.
The IP stack try to make sure the packet is not currupted but I bet that HT has done his own CRC code.
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My asumption is that, for some bug, the server is mistaking the plane ID "before" constructing/sending the pos info to some clients. So, CRC is ok, but packet content is wrong.
It his is the case, the client CAN'T trigger a dialog error indicating that an erroneous plane is nearby. It would interfere negatively with you while flying and getting constant error messages.
To elaborate a bit more my assumption lets rewind the tape:
1 - When your client doesnt receive pos updates of a plane in front of you, your client simply keepts it in its last known course and speed, but that plane is still being drawn and visible.
2 - The "invisible" plane possition is being sent correctly to the server by the "invisible" plane client cause while that plane is invisible for you, it may be visible for a country mate flying nearby.
3 - When a plane becomes invisible to you, is because your client receives some data that updates efectively the pos of that plane. If pos is not updated, go to point 1. Remeber that these planes are not natively invisible, they seems to vanish in front of you (for example), that is, they are, somewhat, updated in your client.
Mixing up all these points, my hypotesis is that for some reason the client doesnt render the plane.
Possible causes:
1 - The plane type id is erroneous and the client cant render it.
2 - Erroneous plane coordinates place it well out of range, so it is not drawn in your FE.
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No,planes CAN be invisable.I have been myself.Only problem is you cant read any planes.Just distant dots.I attacked a base with eggs and my squad mates ciould see the buildings explode,we were in contact on RW and they couldnt see me.The ACK was fireing at me but no vis on any planes.