Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Gixer on June 15, 2002, 08:37:31 PM

Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Gixer on June 15, 2002, 08:37:31 PM
It would be great if HT could remove this as not only does it cost 60perks. But you get ganged on by every other plane in the sky as they can so easily ID you as a perk ride especially a Spit perk  ride.

So please remove the "14" from the Icon so we can all enjoy this great addition to the plane set without being so easily identified. And while your at it maybe reduce the cost to around 10 :-)



...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Karnak on June 15, 2002, 11:32:08 PM
All perk planes, save the F4U-1C, suffer from the problem:

F4U-1C Corsair = F4U (ljust like the freebie F4U-1 and F4U-1D Corsairs)
F4U-4 Corsair = F4U4
Spitfire Mk XIVc = Spit14
Tempest Mk V = Temp
Ta152H-1 = 152
Me262A-1 = 262
Ar234B = 234

All those icons are unique to those aircraft (except for the previously mentioned F4U-1C) and they all call out a gangbang on the aircraft in question.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Wilbus on June 16, 2002, 04:32:18 AM
Yup, the different in that the 262 can easily run and it can stay it fight and stay alive without trouble. The F4u 4 can run but no better then an LA7 (which there are so many of that the F4u can hardly run anyway). The tempest can quite easily run and it's a great plane. Spit 14, well, atleast it can climb like a rocket on steroids :)

Ta152... what can it do? I mean, except for fly around at 35k and knock down any fighter that goes up there (except maybe spit 9's that stll outclimb and outturn it).

No, not whining, just think alot of planes should have their perk icons removed and/or their perk price lowerd/removed.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: whels on June 16, 2002, 10:24:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
Yup, the different in that the 262 can easily run and it can stay it fight and stay alive without trouble. The F4u 4 can run but no better then an LA7 (which there are so many of that the F4u can hardly run anyway). The tempest can quite easily run and it's a great plane. Spit 14, well, atleast it can climb like a rocket on steroids :)

Ta152... what can it do? I mean, except for fly around at 35k and knock down any fighter that goes up there (except maybe spit 9's that stll outclimb and outturn it).

No, not whining, just think alot of planes should have their perk icons removed and/or their perk price lowerd/removed.


of the perk planes 152, f4u-4, f4u-1c, spit14, Tempest, 262 and 234. only 2 could have thier icons removed cause they are the same as thier past versions eccentually. the F4U-4 and Chog,
they are basicly the same as the Dhog with no stuctural changes
on the outside to make them look diff from the other Hogs.

the other perk planes are so diff from other planes close to them
as te 152 to 190s and spit14 to earlier spits that they have thier
own  icon.  the Ta152 isnt a 190-ta152, nothing close to 262 or 234, Tempest isnt a Tiff otherwise itd had  tiff-XXX something name. all these planes had major redesign done, so need  thier own Icon cause they were/are so different.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Wilbus on June 16, 2002, 11:50:46 AM
Thus just unperk most of them.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Hooligan on June 16, 2002, 12:41:21 PM
It seems pretty clear that for the most part HTC wants perk planes to be easily identifiable.  I'm not sure why the F4U-1C doesn't get this treatment.  And I guess I have to add that I'm not sure why La-5s and La-7s get different icons.

Personally I think it is good that if you fly an aircraft with a significant performance advantage that you are easily recognizeable.

Hooligan
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Maverick on June 16, 2002, 01:18:26 PM
If you find the need to fly a perk plane it should be advertised. Just think of it as combat incentives that bring your targets to you so you don't have to waste fuel and game time to go hunting for the targets that you need the advantage over.  :rolleyes:

Leave the perk icons on. My vote.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Pongo on June 16, 2002, 04:50:06 PM
And its not fair that the LA7 can so easily be distinguished from an La5
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: senna on June 16, 2002, 07:27:26 PM
I agree, some identification but not too much is better. I actually think tyhe icon color should also be more like the color of the sky, that way you have to look and cant simply take advantage of a red icon to pick how many fiters and where around you. Possiblty fading icons as the distance changes and removing the range all together with a + or a- system to indicate closure or departure and rate info. A review and  possible change in the icon system would make me happy :)
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Kweassa on June 17, 2002, 02:31:48 AM
I've posted this icon suggestion some posts back. I think it's a good compromise which is within current limits of AH programming - just a little bit of change that might both satisfy the perk plane user AND the ordinary plane user.

 

1. All planes that have subtypes and variants display the icon for original model up to 1000 yards, regardless of perk or not.

 ie) a Spitfire MkIX at 1500 yards:  SPIT 1.5k
 ie) a Fw190A-8 at 2500 yards: 190 2.5k

2. Perk planes will have their own icon unit displayed once under 1000 yards.

 ie) a Spitfire MkXIV at 1500 yards: SPIT 1.5k
 ie) a Spitfire MKXIV at 900 yards: SPIT14 900
 ie) a F4U-1C at 3500 yards: F4U 3.5k
 ie) a F4U-1C at 500 yards: F4U-1C 500
 
3. Free planes retain the general icon defined at article #1 up to 500 yards, once under 500 yards detailed identification becomes possible for variants.

 ie) a Bf109G-10 at 1500 yards: 109 1.5K
 ie) a Bf109G-10 at 800 yards: 109 800
 ie) a Bf109G-10 at 300 yards: 109(G10) 300
 ie) a Fw190D-9 at 800 yards: 190 800
 ie) a Fw190D-9 at 450 yards: 190(D9) 450
 
4. Perk planes, which have other planes that closely resemble them will follow the rule under article #2.

 ie) a Tempest at 4000 yards: TYPH 4.0k
 ie) a Tempest at 900 yards: TEMP 900
 ie) a Ta152H-1 at 1500 yards: 190 1.5k
 ie) a Ta152H-1 at 800 yards: 152 800

5. Normal planes, which have simular resembling planes that technically do not fall under the "variant" category, will follow the rule under article #3.

 ie) a F6F-5 at 1000 yards: CAT 1.0k
 ie) a F4F-4 at 800 yards: CAT 800
 ie) a F6F-5 at 300 yards: F6F 300
 ie) a La-5FN at 1200 yards: La 1.2k
 ie) a La-7 at 1300 yards: La 1.3k
 ie) a La-5FN at 400 yards: La5 400
 ie) a La-7 at 450 yards: La7 450

 ......

 This idea looks a bot more complicated than what we currently have, but really, it is pretty much simple. The basic principle would be "identification according to range". The advantages of this idea is that people who fly perk planes can up their chances of survival by careful management of combat engagement without having to worry about drawing everybody near him like a magnet. But, it will also hold the perk concept in effect since if the perk planes wish to engage enemies, it would inevitably have to identify itself thus, notifying the enemies of its presence. Another good thing about this idea is there will be some advantages in getting close to your target - it will enable you to identify the various subtypes witin close visible ranges. Also, it will reward the experienced player since they will be able to identify the details about the enemy planes even before within certain icon ranges. For instance, an experienced player will be able to identify whether the guy behind him is a Spit9 or a Spit5, based on his judgement on speed, closure rates.. etc and plan his move accordingly, whereas a inexperienced player will not be able to identify whether it is a 5 or a 9, and will find out only after his move.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: tofri at work on June 17, 2002, 06:40:08 AM
(http://www.plauder-smilies.de/cry.gif)
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: DmdNexus on June 17, 2002, 01:07:11 PM
If you fly a "ming is better than yours" type plane, expect to be gangbanged.

That's the purpose of the tag.

Blend in with the rest of us sheep and say  "Baaaaaaaa".
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Wilbus on June 17, 2002, 01:36:30 PM
problem is every plane in teh arena is better then AH TA152...
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: CMC Airboss on June 17, 2002, 01:58:35 PM
No complaints here about the current setup and it seems to keep perk planes to a reasonable level for gameplay considerations.  Doesn't seem like the Temp, Ar 234, Me 262, or 152 would ever get acceptable alternates since their names are unique.  

But an idea when looking at the other side of the argument -

Double the perk cost to have the offending icon modifier removed? (i.e. Spit in lieu of Spit14)

MiG
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Karnak on June 17, 2002, 02:39:47 PM
If I could pay 120 perk points for a Spit XIV with a "SPIT" icon, I'd do it every time.

The single biggest reason that I don't fly perk planes has nothing to do with losing perk points.  It has lots to do with that fact that it isn't fun to have every fighter in the area after just you.  This is compounded when your performance advantages are marginal, if existant at all, over the free aircraft ganging on you.

It ain't fun to fly perk planes, so I won't.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Hooligan on June 17, 2002, 05:09:49 PM
Karnak wrote:

Quote

it isn't fun to have every fighter in the area after just you...


It isn't?  I was thinking of taking an F4U-4 up for a few sorties just so that I could feed hordes of drooling perk-slayers to my squaddies.

Hooligan
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Kevin14 on June 17, 2002, 07:39:21 PM
The anyone part of some of this is that camo doesn't matter at all in this game. You either see an easily visible black dot on the horizon or a tag over the dot. Like with the Dora if someone is on your six and you dive for the ground and then pull up, your top camo would blend into the ground and make you less visible. I like the idea of making the icons less visible from certain angles and distances.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: Tilt on June 21, 2002, 07:17:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
I've posted this icon suggestion some posts back. I think it's a good compromise which is within current limits of AH


This is neat but its a bit complex...........

actually AH has a short / long range icon switch already at about 6k and 3k.

hence the easy start would be generic type identification at 6k (ie La) and subtype at 3k (ie La5fn)

Tilt.
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: lazs2 on June 21, 2002, 08:34:51 AM
I think not giving the -1c a different icon than the a or d is an admission that the performance of the c is no better, indeed, worse than both of the others.   The c is also the plane that has the lowest cost and would most likely not be targeted much anyway.

The other planes have clear performance advantages and should be called out if they are to be in the same arena as other planes.

 I believe that all the spits perform enough different to get seperate icons.   I believe that all the 109's need seperate icons.
lazs
Title: SPIT14 Icon
Post by: TMASTadon on June 21, 2002, 02:49:01 PM
The perk planes HAVE to seperate identifiers. I actually like Kweassa's idea but there has to be something that tells us what we are dealing with. I wouldnt mind at least having a G, K, F on the end of those 109's but some abiguity is ok. I mean even the actuall pilots themselves would sometimes misidentify some planes in combat and their lives depended on knowing the flight envelopes of the enemy AC. Could you IMAGINE the howls on Chn1 in MA when people are getting punced by Spit14's & Temps thinking they are dealing with Spit5's or 9's or Typh's? :eek: Anything that has a signifcant flight performance advantage over its cousins needs to be identified as such. ACM begins with knowing the flight envelope of your AC and the flight envelope of the AC you are fighting. Computers just cant, at this stage allow you to take a look at a plane and tell what kind it is. I cant even tell the diff between a Spit5 or 9 or P51B or D until I get REAL close and can see the paint on it. But I dont mind that so much, it adds a lil something to the game and their performance levels arent so different as to be a major deal.