Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Dago on June 16, 2002, 08:04:03 AM
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Lately this board has become irrelevant and downright dissppointing. Its filled with flames, or actions of stupidity.
Because of that, I don't think I shall participate anymore, either posting or bothering to look at it. I am removing my bookmark to it and don't plan to return anytime soon. Too bad it has gotten so bad. :(
Dago
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You must filter out the bad, retain the good. Same practice I use in every day life. IMHO, there are too many good things on this board to not visit it once in awhile.
People that post on this board come from all walks of life. Some that we can relate to and some we cannot. I tend to read the post from people I can relate to.
Quite simple actually! :)
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Actually...
If you were really all that mature, you wouldn't post any 'signing off the board' messages because it's only adding to the 'irrelevant and downright dissppointing' aspect.
Just an observation.
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Stick around, in the last few weeks Pyro has done a good job of keeping the forums sensible and handing out ban's to those who have abused the forums.
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Hell, stick around for the good stuff that is here, and add to it! :)
SOB
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I've contemplated leaving as well, but I stick around ta see what kinda crazy sh*t the FDBs will post next.
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I agree with evildingo... Sorta like the "quitting forever if I don't get my way posts". Well no... it's exactly like that come to think of it.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I agree with evildingo... Sorta like the "quitting forever if I don't get my way posts". Well no... it's exactly like that come to think of it.
lazs
or like someone posting a whine about the a original post.
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BBS is like life..You forget the crap and remember the good stuff.
Sermon over...
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I agree don't leave and stay at posts your mind can understand
and just look at how futile other peoples minds are and laugh and say how futile they are;)
but if you still go
;) ;)
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Originally posted by Revvin
Stick around, in the last few weeks Pyro has done a good job of keeping the forums sensible and handing out ban's to those who have abused the forums.
The fact that this board has reached the point where it needs to be policed this extensively says it all. I have been coming to this board since October 2000 and enjoyed it thoroughly. But when censorship becomes necessary, then I maybe I need to find some place else to hang out. Censorship in and of itself is bad. People making sufficient posts to justify censorship is worse. If what I have to say is offensive enough to justify censorship, then I belong somewhere else anyway.
Is this board to become like the other ones where only cheerleaders are allowed to post? Negative posts may drag the product down. Not being allowed to make negative posts will do the same. There must be some happy medium where people are responsible enough to post pertinent items that don't demand censorship, but still permit criticism and humor.
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Without this board I would have never learned the word "tard"
That in itself was worth the price of admission.
I look foreward to more small little tidbits that expand my horizons and increase my enjoyment in life.
To leave would negate any chance of me expanding my vocabulary.
To leave I would miss the raw testostrone dripping from my moniter..
I would miss out on what it is to be a man, and that is something I can't risk.
If I didn't come here, I wouldn't have known that flying certain planes reflects on ones manhood...or lack of.
These things are VERY important to me and I look to this board for guidence..
Without the guidence here, I would have long ago been labeled a tard..
But browsing the posts, I see an awful lot of people that probably got picked up by that little bus out in front of their house when they went to school..
Could be wrong.
;)
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All nice streak, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Of course criticism is ok, worded respectfully and without malice. I believe that as well as you. Criticism rank with sarcasm and suggestion of bias and belittling the efforts will draw fire. There are people that offer advice and ask for change in a way that doesn't neglect respect. There are plenty of examples of those that haven't.
You seem to be suggesting while you believe censorship is necessary, you'll leave if it happens. Some may leave, others may stay, but the environment hopefully will be better. You yourself have alluded to the degradation in quality of the posts- would it have been better to crack down earlier, or wait until now? I think HTC has given us the chance to grow up, we've neglected to do it on our own. It doesn't appear we are going to change, so they will mandate the change on us. Hey, it's their board, if they don't want to be associated with the type of behavior that has occurred, that is their choice to make.
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You guys seem to forget this is HTC's board, a showcase for their product and the community around it and not some independant board like AGW. HTC have been more than lenient with the type's of posts made here both the flamers and adverts for other sims that people post here to stir the pot. Crying censorship is the last defense of a abusive anti-social person 99% or the time.
People come here to learn about Aces High and hte community around it. Some people will not even try a game if they think the community is going to be nothing but trouble so I'm glad HTC is cleaning the forums up. Do you want to be judged by a visitor on the actions of a small minority of bad apples?
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Crying censorship is something I will always do whenever someone takes the position that the solution to someone saying something they disagree with is to shut them up. You can insult me all you want for "crying censorship", but I would rather have Citabria free to rant and rave and have child pornography via the internet accessible in public libraries, than have anybody decide what is okay to communicate.
If HTC takes the attitude that this board exists soley to promote their product and censor the hell out of everything that doesn't doesn't fit in with that concept (which they haven't in the past), it will become like the other fanboy message board of their competitor: virtually empty just like their arenas. Having people saturate their message board with posts that makes their community look unappealing to potential customers is probably bad for everyone involved. But simply censoring the posts does not solve the root problem: the type of community that makes those posts in the first place.
If the problem is only a few individuals, then banning them definitely solves the problem. But from my point of view, the problem seems to pervade a significant number of the posts made by a diverse range of people including many of the core customers of this product.
Is there really even a problem? Or is it just our perception that the board has become negative? Hasn't this board always been chock full of whiners, flamers, trolls, etc? Maybe we should all take what we read here with a lot of tongue in cheek humor and try as hard as possible not to post anything at all unless it will do something constructive or entertain somebody.
The HTC O-Club is simply the best place on the net for humor and debates. I have gotten many of my non-flight sim friends going there because it is so entertaining. Why can't the general discussion board be the same except for the focusing on AH itself?
I love this game and greatly appreciate the people that have given it to us. I am sorry that we the customers are so demanding that HTC employees' pride gets injured by the non-stop insults and criticisms. But as long as so many people are coming here and complaining, that should be a compliment itself since it means they are still obsessed with playing this game and striving to make it even better.
Maybe HTC should jack the price back up to $30 a month. I have finally finished school and can afford to be part of the exclusive community that was possible at that price.
Hey, there's an idea: paying customers wouldn't get banned for being offensive, their monthly fee goes up $15 each time they screw up so that they partially pay for the potential customers that they are costing HTC. Of course wealthier players with bad attitudes could compete to see who could rack up the highest subscription rate and non-subscribers would be subject to banning, especially if they just quit because of their astronomical monthly fee :D
For the record, while Citabria/Fester has demonstrated poor sportsmanship in the past, I didn't see what he said in that post that got him banned? Looked like a typical boring repetitive whine for plane x instead of plane y with numerous insults to anyone who said differently which has been a staple on this board since I have been here. I don't remember RAM or the people that constantly attacked him ever getting banned... and that whole thing was as negative as anything I have ever seen here.
Besides, having colorful characters that people despise can actually be a good marketing tool, look at what it has done for wrestling, football, basketball, and the US government.
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I respectfully disagree.
You say "a better community" is the answer, but you don't say how to create a better community.
You acknowledge abusive behavior is bad for business, but don't associate banning the individual as a form of censorship.
You don't think things are that bad. I think they have degraded considerably in my time here.
This board is hostile. It will run customers away if it continues this way. You are already using some of the catchphrase words of a board in decline- "fanboy" chief among them. If the perception is that if you challenge HTC you will get a virtual mugging, many will not want to stay here. This means that control must be exerted on both sides, complainers and fanboys, as both are equally at fault. And don't think for a second what happens here doesn't help form what happens in the arenas, so allowing abusive behavior here can help lead to an abusive arena.
So... do you watch it all slowly slide into the toilet or do you take some kind of action? If not banning and censorship, then what?
As far as Cit goes, he's pretty much begging for it. He seems to go through cycles where he builds up and has an outburst, then is cool for a while. Pyro merely banned him from the boards, not the game. Cit refused to take the timeout like a man, so maybe it will be the game, too.
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Has any game successfully stopped a "decline" once it has begun? Taking punitive actions might slow it. Or they might accelerate it. I agree the mood here can be pretty negative lately, but I think that it is merely a cycle and not a steady trend of decay. Raising a big ruckus about it is only more negative can could help make it a trend. I am quite sure that there were plenty of "attacks" and poorly worded "whines" in the past. Why all the emphasis on the ones happening now?
If the current "policing" is about getting people to respect each other, especially the people working so hard on the game, why didn't it start a long time ago with the nonstop whining about LW planes or the Hog 1C? I personally don't ever let anything posted on a public internet message board really upset me... just letters on a screen.
However, some posts do make me laugh, and some even make me happy. Like the announcement of the P-40B :D
I can't control how other people post or respond. Nor do I really believe I should.
Yes, banning is censorship. What I was saying is that weeding out a few individuals is a normal acceptable thing that can solve a small problem. Introducing a policy that impacts a significant number of the members would be unacceptable. Public libraries don't generally make pornography and profane material available to children, but if every book that had a curse word or nude photo was removed, the library would be half empty losing many books that are worthwhile. WB3 and WW2 online have leaned to the one extreme while AH was always open. Given a choice between a "positive" board ruled by an iron fist and a "negative" board that is open, I prefer the latter. Of course it is best to have a board that is "positive" by its very nature, but by definition you can't make people be that way. You can however have a community that attracts positive individuals and ignores or rejects negative individuals without using banning. But once again, that is not something you force.
You either have a good community or you don't. No amount of banning will change that. I think this is still a great community regardless of any negative posts. I don't accept the idea that bad apples make the whole bunch rotten. If other people view the community negatively based on a few bad posts, maybe the community is better off without them?
It is HTCs business. They can and will do whatever they want with it. But as long as I am free to give my opinion here, then I will. When I am not free to give my opinion here, then I will find someplace else. As long as I enjoy the game, I will play it. When I don't, I will find another game. The two subjects, the message board and the game, are somewhat separate topics. However, one of the best aspects of this game is being able to speak directly to the developers knowing they are listening. I would like to retain my right to whine about any topic any way that suits me :D If my whine is invalid or stated in such a way as to be insulting, can't others just ignore it? Trolls only cause problems when others respond to them. Otherwise, their posts fall to the bottom of the pile unread.
Understand that I realize anything I say is all speculation for me. I have only been online for a few years and I don't think even real psychologists have studied the dynamics of internet culture enough to know what is "right" and what is "wrong" and how to correctly regulate the behavior of people in this medium.
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Now see what you've done Dago?!! Aren't you glad you're leaving? :rolleyes:
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This is not about shutting someone up because they disagree with you.
What Cit did would be the same as you walking into a bar and jumping up onto a table shouting and gesturing at the landlord. Cit was asked to leave but instead of taking it on the chin or apologising to HTC (in which case this whole thing would have been forgotten) instead he takes to running back into the bar and winding up the landlord again. Would you frequent a bar that had this happen on a daily basis? if you were the landlord would your fuse not be near burnt out if this happened daily?
Pyro has posted numerous times about the number of offensive posts and flaming going on. He's not laid down any rules about posting but just asked that people consider what they are posting before hitting that 'reply' button. The flaming and offensive posts continued so he has taken steps to try and sort it out its that simple. Throwing words like 'censorship' around is just plain silly.
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actually kieran...the adage goes: 'you can't eat your cake and have it too'
common confusion
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Originally posted by Revvin
This is not about shutting someone up because they disagree with you.
What Cit did would be the same as you walking into a bar and jumping up onto a table shouting and gesturing at the landlord. Cit was asked to leave but instead of taking it on the chin or apologising to HTC (in which case this whole thing would have been forgotten) instead he takes to running back into the bar and winding up the landlord again. Would you frequent a bar that had this happen on a daily basis? if you were the landlord would your fuse not be near burnt out if this happened daily?
Pyro has posted numerous times about the number of offensive posts and flaming going on. He's not laid down any rules about posting but just asked that people consider what they are posting before hitting that 'reply' button. The flaming and offensive posts continued so he has taken steps to try and sort it out its that simple. Throwing words like 'censorship' around is just plain silly.
Not only that Revvin, but it's HTC's board they have the right to censor anything they like :)
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I love all of you guys....even the whiney ones:)
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I met Dago and his son once at OshKosh. 5 years ago, I think.
Nice guy, I guess his leaving is a bad sign. I'm just poking my head in after almost 2 years away. Looks pretty vicious around here these days.
Not a good sign...
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well put streak eagle but... In the end, it is their board and they have the right to do as they wish.
My standards for what is offensive are different than some of you others. so are theirs I would imagine.
I think the board and it's denizens works pretty good right now so far as weeding out the dishonest and stupid. I wish it did better at weeding out the insipid and the cheerleaders but.... everyone has different priorities.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I wish it did better at weeding out the insipid ..
lazs
Then where would you post Eeyore? ;)
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well ripsnore... I get called a few things but "insipid or even "cheerleader" aren't usually amongst them... U on the other hand... heck, the only way yu could be more insipid is to put a smiley face at the end of your posts. Heck... if possesion of knee pads was a crime you would be a married to some bubba in Folsom by now explaining to the other cons how you find hairy backs to be sexy.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
well ripsnore... I get called a few things but "insipid or even "cheerleader" aren't usually amongst them... U on the other hand... heck, the only way yu could be more insipid is to put a smiley face at the end of your posts. Heck... if possesion of knee pads was a crime you would be a married to some bubba in Folsom by now explaining to the other cons how you find hairy backs to be sexy.
lazs
LOL!
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LOL :D
Lazs you are indeed one of a kind. So much for THAT beer.....
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Originally posted by streakeagle
Has any game successfully stopped a "decline" once it has begun?
There are many ways to define "decline". I think 1.10 will eliminate some of the reasons for much of the squeakin' going on now. Of course there will be new things to complain about.
In the military, at least the Air Force, it has long been said that "a squeakin' GI was a happy GI."
Most meaningful way to measure decline is in the subscribed player base. Are the numbers dropping? Not that I can tell.
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Not true, as a victim of this ecomomy I can tell for certain that life itself has become irrelevant and downright dissappointing. Filled with flames AND actions of stupidity.
Which is why I come here. Where else can you go to read about people getting pissed about an HO or killshooter or fluff this and quake that. Too bad these weren't the most serious problems people had to face these days.
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zipity:
I read your post, saw you were from a heavy bomber group - I remembered that bobn from WB - head of the Red Raiders - passed away from a stroke - so I couldn't agree with you more.
Alot of people here will check your 6 if you can show you're not a dweeb and will cover their 6. Which is a helluva lot better than almost everyone in real life.
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Wow, I remember bobn, sorry to hear that..