Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Drunky on June 18, 2002, 09:18:21 PM
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For many months I have really, really been enjoying the CT. I offers much that the MA does not anymore; a sense of a small community, courteous respect and an overall sense of maturity.
That being said I've noticed the ever persistant over-balancing of allied vs axis. Nothing new. Been there, done that many, many times before. Asked before for some allied to switch. Many times have seen people switch...people I respect, (36DD comes to mind tonight)...people who want to fight not gangbang.
The real problem...squads
To wit...tonight axis were outnumbered. Nothing new you say...except it was 34 to 9...almost 4 to 1 . Okay..you say...whoopeee, that happens.
Of the 34 allied I counted 29 allies in three (3) squads (I will not mention squad names that's not the point) but that greatly offset the entire arena.
When asked for people to switch...only individuals switched...not squads.
If squads are going to fly the CT (especially with the low numbers) perhaps we should consider a rotation or schedule that allows for parity within the CT. Otherwise we greatly reduce the level of quality that the CT has maintained.
If ya only want to gangbang....go to the MA and join the biggest country...enjoy the banging'
If ya only want to take bases...go the the training arena...lot's of bases and noone to defend them all.
If ya only want to fly against courteous, capable, mature pilots in a balanced, enjoyable enviroment...then join the CT but keep the numbers even
There...rant over...I feel better
Drunky
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Obviously that looked like great cheating. Even I was fooled :D
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Originally posted by Drunky
The real problem...squads
To wit...tonight axis were outnumbered. Nothing new you say...except it was 34 to 9...almost 4 to 1 . Okay..you say...whoopeee, that happens.
Of the 34 allied I counted 29 allies in three (3) squads (I will not mention squad names that's not the point) but that greatly offset the entire arena.
Drunky [/B]
I'll tell you who one squad was. VF-27 which I am proudly a member. Drunky, you Axis guys have no trouble showing when you got the rides you like do you? If it's LW vs anybody your there in force. We wait usually at least five weeks between PTO set-ups. We don't whine, we don'y boycott, we fly what we got waiting for that one week of PTO so we can fly our rides. We fly Russian which we hate, we fly RAF, which we hate, and we fly USAAF which we are bored with. WE do show however and we do fly, weather we like the arena or not. If the problem in the CT is squads it's because of a lack of participation on the Axis side. If your rides are not there you don't show, or the ones that do get on chnl 1 and berate us because we are flying what we want.
We've been dodging jets, and FWs for weeks, and instead of going somewhere else to fly we stick it out like it or not because we're dedicated to the CT arena. Don't whine about us whine about your fair weather axis flyers who are out in force when the rides they like are available. Then don't show if they don't like the set-up. But we're there weather it's one we like or not, supporting this arena. You, and Vulgar can blow your insults right out your six and sleep with it. I'm pissed with all this baby crap your passing, as hard as we work to be there, then the one time we get our planes, you guys act like kids and don't show, or whine the whole time. We're an Allied CV squad, it's not our job or intent to make it easy on you, thats your squads job.
In warbirds I formed 2 axis squads to keep the numbers even in their version of the CT. I'm not impressed with a cry baby who'll be jumping with glee next week in his 262 or TA-152, next week, but can't fly this week. This crap gets old , quit whining and start flying. Most the JGs in AH are excellant and would kick butt in anything they flew. So quit squeaking about my squad complain about your owns lack of support of the CT.:mad:
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Not worth reading
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Sorry Drunky,
I realize the numbers were off, however, we mostly stayed away from the fights to avoid flooding the area you guys were in. We had coordinated a Joint Ops Mission with VF-27 (our fellow squids) and had been really looking forward to working with each other for the first time; more so do to the arena being down for a day earlier, and PTO setups are weeks apart.
For the most part early on this evening, we were simply trying to get some of our newer guys to successfully take a fully loaded F4U off of the CV without splashing. Later, we ran one co-op mission with VF-27 on a port that wouldn't have (or shouldn't have) made a difference to the arena overall, to get a feel for working together.
We will switch to balance numbers, and do so often, however, we'd prearranged tonight's activities with VF-27 and were anxious to fly with our new commrades. This afternoon when I was in the CT, I flew against VF-27; all of whom were flying Axis.
Sorry again for the hard feelings it caused, but also realize that berating and saying folks have no honour etc on ch 1 does little good in the grand scheme of things.
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I agree completely with what Lowe said.
Anyways when the numbers get bad, we do Jabo raids, not fighter sweep, to do some good for our side. We did 2 fighter-bomber raids tonight and only 1 sweep.
We will fly axis in the future if the numbers dont look so good, but we have a squad that is a CT based unit, and thats how we will fly it.
If its bad ratio wise next time, we will fly as "880th Sentai" our evil universe double.
Regards.
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I will have to agree with all of my guys and our fellow "Squids" from 880 sqdn. F.A.A.
We are a squad based on a Pacific based USN Carrier Squadron - PERIOD. We wait 3 to 4 weeks for a PTO scenario to finally come around, you can bet your family jewels we are going to fly the planes are squad is based.
We are very true to our Navy theme - you will find us flying planes off the CV's as long as one is available. PERIOD. We don't run and grab the hotter land planes, which we could easily, but usually end up flying the old Hurricane or if luck is with us the Seafire.
I don't want to hear this "BS" about side balancing. As Lowe said above, we flew the Spit & Hurri 1's in BOB, the Russian klunkers (not the LA-7's) in Stalingrad & Citadel and the Spit V & Hurri II in the Afrika scenario when the Allies were pretty damn thin and the skies were black with Axis birds. Several times VF-27 has went AXIS and flew to even things up when it was totally one sided and even split the squad to try to work up some action.
As was pointed out, most of our guys will go and fly Axis when not on squad nights but come squad night we are going to be sitting on an ALLIED carrier deck.
As for the imbalance tonight in the CT - exactly how many of us jumped you? NOT ONE. We flew two sorties in the CT before it crashed (again) and never saw a single con. So did we jump on what was there? No we went over to the far side of the map and hit a CV group and a port. There were 15 of VF-27 and 8 from 880 Sqdn. and no one got a kill.
IMHO you would do better to quit "WHINING", get off your can, and get to actively recruiting (That is what we did) for some players that like to fly Axis or like a REAL challenge and get them in a squad and flying on the Axis side. It can be done - I belonged to JG 51 in Warbirds and we were the terror of the Historical Arena. We could put up 36 pilots and usually averaged 25 a squad night. Very few Allied squads that could stop us even with their Mustangs, Corsairs, Juggs, Lightnings & hordes of EVERY DAMN MODEL OF SPITFIRE EVER MADE! INCLUDEING THE DAMN PROTOTYPE!
Lastly, VULGAR - about that crack about me "Not having any Honor" - be VERY VERY glad there are two monitors and a "long" string of wire between us mate. I am a Firefighter & EMT and consider myself very honorable.
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Look forward to many more co ops with the VF-27 in the future. It was a real pleasure flying with those guys last night. A fine bunch of pilots there.
Good to see a dedicated Hellcat squad, but then I have a soft spot for the Hellkitty anyway. :)
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Fly which ever side you want but please, PLEASE...leave the frigging Bish bases alone! Arena got inadverdently reset again last night. When I checked last night, there were three, but the above mentioned squads were attacking P40. This didn't cause a problem immediatley, but another was apparently taken later (after I logged off, of course), reducing the Bish to one and causing a reset. Now I'm stuck at work for the next nine hours, and can't reset things.
Sabre
CT Staff
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Yeah sabre that was our mistake. I thought the bish fields were AWAY from the action. I should have noticed, but in the CT with only two sides, its green and red. I dont look at the little symbols. What in '@#$@ name is the enemy port doing in the middle of friendly land?
We were quite embarassed that we dumped the map but the more I think about it, the more that kind of thing should be minimized. Particularly for the CT. We dont care a whole lot about the download (hell only 40 of us anyway), so next time, if there is such a blatant mistake on the map........
And to vulgar corwin and drunky. Guys, next time pay attention. We were no where near any of the action. We included 20-25 pilots. That means when you were throwing your hissy fits and spoiling the normally civil environment of the CT (only the second time I have had to squelch someone in there), why dont you look around first and figure out what the hell you are talking about. allied 25-32 = 7
axis pilots = 10 (when you were crapping all over yourselves)
Get a fricking grip and dont behave like that in the CT. All three of you guys are excellent pilots, and normally have been a little more mature. Was this a beer thing perhaps?
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Squads should fly together. That's the reason they exist. If my squad is in the CT I'll 'try' to even the sides if it dosen't disrupt any prior plans for the night but there are squads that see themselfs and either Allied or Axis. I understand there reluctance to switch and I don't think less of them.
I've been playing online flight sims for seven years and I have to say in all honesty that I just don't understand this fixcation on side balance. I'm not trying to flame anyone because there are some people who really think it's important. I'm just not one of them.
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All,
First I would like to apologize for the tone of my post. It was out of frustration, not entirely fair and as ergRTC said, beer was involved. I'm called Drunky not because I fly goons a lot. I fly with a twelve pack next to my computer. I start flying good around the 3rd beer and begin to fly bad around the 9th ;) Usually I try not to post after a certain point...but it happens from time to time. For that, again, I apologize.
Second, in response to Lowe...I typically fly Axis because they are usually outnumbered...I always have. I ended up joining a LW squad because I became good in their planes.
During Stalingrad I also flew Russian because they were outnumbered. Didn't like flying the Russian planes the same as you didn't. I fly almost every night in the CT regardless of theatre of operations. I fly regardless of the plane set. So, I would appreciate if you do not use blanket LW statements when referring to me as it does not wholly apply.
I enjoy flying Allied also. When I yearn to fly a P38 (one of my personal favorites) or a Spit (because they are fun) I typically go to other arenas. Ocassionally, when numbers are close, I have gone allied and had fun also ;) It's kinda fun killing your mates from the other side.
Chanter...I didn't realize that two of the squads were not engaging directly. Although I believe that one squad was. ergRTC that would make your math a little different than 32-25=7 vs 10.
I was at A3 with 8+ cons. I looked on the map and saw 3 sectors with con bar around A8 (I believe...the closest base next to A7). A8 (again I'm not sure of the base number) had just been attacked by P47's from A7 and so I figure that we were getting hit at two bases with almost 4 to 1 odds. I jumped to conlusions because of the dar bar up north and for that I also apologize.
I will repeat once again what I said orginally...would it be feasible to stagger squad nights in order not to overbalance the CT. I will also see about starting a squad night for JG2 in the CT. Before you pooh, pooh me again...please keep in mind...last night there were 32 allies in squads...that's around the usual number for both sides in the CT on most nights.
One last thing...when I asked for someone to switch sides some agreed to and that is greatly appreciated. The best response I received other than that was a simple "NO"...although I missed who it was from.
I am aware that VF-27 flies Tuesday and Thursday in the CT. I was not expected other squads there also. A quick explanation that the VF's and 880 were doing a joint op would have been instructional and apprectiated.
again...and one last apology for my behaviour.
And btw...Lowe, I hope you understand if I dont "blow your insults right out your six and sleep with it":p
Otto...I don't have a direct fixation about have balanced sides...I have a fixation with not facing 4 to 1 odds.
Drunky
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I knew there was beer involved!
I was at a7 flying a ki with contsel when the 47s came and ran (got 2 of em), then I had to switch to allied for squad night. I think the 32-25 is correct though, since 880 joined in on our fiasco down south. I am not sure how many guys were in 880 but at the beginning of squad night we had 15 and many late shows added to that.
I looked up near a7 when you started complaining, and it did look like many allied sectors, but not a whole lot of planes total.
Somebody was complaining about vulching, was that axis? and did that have anything to do with the discontent?
Normally the bucs come and play but I did not see them. The assassins have not been around either. Must be free beer in the MA.
I just think this was one night of seemingly bad numbers. Nothing more..........
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NP Drunky just showing my arse ;)
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The 308 made the decision before squadnight yesterday to fly Axis because we anticipated that IJN would be outnumbered . Was nice to see 40 some players in the arena though even if 30 of them were on one side .
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I think squads are great. Have actually considered joining one. But I also think "squad nights" in an underpopulated arena like the CT are a bad thing.
The CT is my favorite arena, and until last night, I have always witnessed at least a token effort to balance sides. But I suppose with the stretch between Pacific setups and the emergence of two -- maybe three -- full-time carrier-based squads, it was just a matter of time before something like last night's prison rape happened. I do think it could be avoided.
I'm not suggesting anyone break up squads. They join to fly together. But I am suggesting that if multiple squads -- especially large ones -- insist on descending upon the CT on the same night and time, one or more of those squads should be willing to fly for the disadvantaged side. There's nothing revolutionary about this. It is the same spirit of cooperation that has been evident in the CT from Day 1 with individual fliers.
Another option might be to coordinate among squads so that they are not all in the arena -- operating as squads -- on the same night.
I don't understand the use of the CT for training missions. I do understand the "joint ops" concept -- but what's the point if there are not reasonable numbers on the opposing side? Is it not essentially the same as practicing/milkrunning in the TA? You can fly your chosen bird(s) in there without waiting for a PTO setup. There are carriers to practice takeoffs & landings. There are nmy carriers and bases to attack. There are gangbang opportunities (usually someone is foolish enough to take you on).
Yeah, it would be lovely ... at least from the all-allied-all-the-time squads' standpoint ... if some axis squads would organize and populate the CT. No argument there. And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its bellybutton on the ground when it hopped.
The thing is, wouldn't a IJN-based squad have the same frustration in the CT as you USN fellows? Waiting for PTO setups would really be a squeak, and they'd be moaning about being forced to fly LW planes the rest of the time.
I'm a firm believer in not dictating what planes people can fly. But when squads alter the balance in the CT, they are dictating to me. In our current setup, I've gotta 'turn japanese' or be part of the problem.
Splash1
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Actually splash we havent moaned about non PTO set-ups, we have asked for more PTO set ups but havent moaned.
Squads in the CT is a good thing it brings more people, what we need is more Axis squads in there even if I have to start one.;)
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whow splash hold the phone.
What the hell are you talking about?
Most of our members fly CT only. I am one of them. I am a 'mia' rtc member in the MA but I have not flown there in months. YOU really need to pay attention. Our squad members are required to send in what exactly happened on each of there sorties. How many kills did we have? 1.
Yep 17 odd squad members, 1 kill. I dont think the 880 had any either. Whatever you are talking about is a figment of your own imagination.
I would not call 1 kill a 'rape' in any sense of the word. You have a problem that has nothing to do with numbers in the arena. If you were having problems flying and enjoying yourself while playing in the CT, that was your own fault.
A kwik bit o advice. Wanna live? get a squad. Makes the game way way more enjoyable. You can always fly alone, but you need a squad if you ever want to experience what real aircombat was like.
If you ever want to give it a shot, show up on a tuesday or thursday and hang with us. (as long as the xo and co were not too offended by your dillusional comments).
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Apologies Lowe,
I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't say you were moaning about the lack of PTO setups. I know you have been lobbying for more frequent PTO setups. I understand there is a difference -- tho subtle. ;-)
What I was suggesting was that an IJN squad formed for the CT would have the same frustrations as your squad waiting for setups featuring their chosen theater, and end up moaning about having to fly LW planes in the interim.
Originally posted by Dennis
The thing is, wouldn't a IJN-based squad have the same frustration in the CT as you USN fellows? Waiting for PTO setups would really be a squeak, and they'd be moaning about being forced to fly LW planes the rest of the time.
Perhaps "moan" is too loaded a word, but you did say you hated flying Soviet and RAF planes and were bored with USAAF.
More numbers in the CT is a good thing only if they're not all on the same side. But that's just my opinion. Everyone's got one.
Splash1
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"Perhaps "moan" is too loaded a word, but you did say you hated flying Soviet and RAF planes and were bored with USAAF."
..but it hasn't stopped VF-27 (or us) from flying them in the interest of keeping the CT populated.
As to the training portion - what's the problem? We (880) picked an obscure Carrier Group in the middle of the ocean for a sortie to deliberately not interfere with the furballs occuring between whatever two bases were involved. We didn't offset the balance so unfortunately I'll have to disagree with you there. I'll bet had someone been in the area where our newest member was floundering about, they'd have happily ripped him a new one time and time again without batting an eyelash, delighted in their great fortune to have flown a (insert # of kills here) sortie.
For the first time since I've been in the CT (not long - 4 months tops) I squelched channel 1. That is my usual start up sequence for the main, .squelch 1 .squelch 6. I never squelched it in the CT prior because it was used to convey congratulations and salutes for well fought battles. I guess I jinxed myself however, because right after I posted here about what a mature arena the CT was, there was an exchange between two "mature pilots" (oddly, neither one has been in there since) that would have made a sailor blush. I'm not offended by the language and all the "cute" ways folks spell things to avoid being muted, but I'll bet you there were some that would have been.
Let's all just quit the pissing and moaning and go back to flying historically matched fighters against each other in a gentlemanly manner; it's more fun that way. :)
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Originally posted by ergRTC
whow splash hold the phone.
What the hell are you talking about?
.....some ranting snipped here for brevity's sake ....
A kwik bit o advice. Wanna live? get a squad. Makes the game way way more enjoyable. You can always fly alone, but you need a squad if you ever want to experience what real aircombat was like.
If you ever want to give it a shot, show up on a tuesday or thursday and hang with us. (as long as the xo and co were not too offended by your dillusional comments).
Yeah erg, you're a walking billboard for recruitment.
As I said in my post, I've been thinking about a squad. Until just very, very recently, I was even eyeing VF-27 -- is that the one you're with? I've enjoyed getting the feel of the game (new to flightsims) for awhile now, but agree I might live longer with wingies to watch my tail.
Not that living longer is a prerequisite for my enjoyment of the game. I generally have a good time and get shot down plenty -- especially against the calibre of pilots in the CT.
In any case, I don't think I'm going to "experience what real aircombat was like" by playing a PC game ... squad or not.
Anyway, on your "1 kill" rant ... you guys brought your squad into this issue. Drunky left names out, because it was the issue of imbalance he was addressing -- trying not to make it personal. I don't think VF-27, by itself, was the problem. Personally, I was shot down probably three times trying to defend a base with maybe 3:1 odds. They were flying P38s. Don't remember the squad name, but there sure seemed to be a whole lot of'em.
You can call it a figment of my imagination if you like. Apparently at least a few others (those flying Japanese last night) share similar figments. That's ok. Think what you want. I don't think anyone in this thread pointed an accusatory finger directly at your squad. The issue, I thought, was the concentration of power caused by too many squads upping for the same country, at the same time, thus diminishing the choices -- and chances -- in the game for others.
As for me, after a short while of flying at a disadvantage, I got two kills and an assist manning a destroyer gun against a swarm of VF-27 Hellcats kamikazi'ing a fleet before I logged. So the night wasn't a total loss.
No offense, but I think you should just cool off and let your xo and co do the talking for the squad.
Splash1
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I am plenty cool. You are just getting all the stuff I had to hold down from spouting on channel 1 . CO and XO wouldnt take the leash off.
No offense to you personally. We noticed someone was manning a gun near the end there. We had a great little cv hunt mission planned, but by the time we all got in the air the cvs were on each other!
Also, we were not suiciding. Or at least trying not to. In our squad scoring system we now count a2g attack deaths (like anyone outside the squad cares) but that means that we do not intentionally do 'suicides' on carriers or any other target. We try to attack and sometimes screw up.
As far as ignoring the rant, that is the problem. You refuse to admit that you couldnt handle a 10 axis to 7-10 allied ratio. Which is what was out there. For a lonewolf, ratio should never be a problem. It is alway you vs the enemy.
I am not 'angry' at anybody, just wish you would accept responsibility for some pretty silly behavior (but come to think of it, i dont remember you broadcasting much on the main channel I have it filmed will go back, maybe make a collage...). I would be thrown out of the squad for whining like that on channel 1.
p.s. the carrier attack was much earlier in the evening, around 10:20 pm, the arena crashed near 11:00 when we were attacking a bish field like idiots.
I will shutup now, before I get thrown out for posting this stuff.................
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Sounds like I missed one heck of a night in the CT!
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I for one much prefer being a bit outnumbered then outnumbering (ok not as the bish outnumber in the MA where ya never get a fight unless they have 5-1+ advantage) but a fun fight, 2 vs 1 numbers :)
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Well I dropped in late to that party right before the reset happened. When I saw ~40 players in the CT I thought to myself..."HELL YEAH!" But then I saw it was too damn many to not enough. Although I did notice the big red bars way off from where the fighting was happening around 1,2,3 area.
I made some tongue in cheek references to the unequal numbers once I saw all the squadron members for those three squadrons. Unfortunately I could only find one other LJK member and he logged after two flights in the MA about 20 minutes after I went in looking for people to bring to the CT.
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Why is it everybody thinks as soon as there is a side imbalance that its a "2 field fight 10 miles from each other" gang bang?
I was there. It wasnt. Trouble is the culture of the MA where thats all it ever is, folks all jump to conclusions. Like Chanter said, 880 FAA deliberatley rolled 2 heavy strikes vs ground targets (ya the bombs really are for something) and avoided sweep missions entirely.
There is more to arena action than just ratios.
Cripes, the sky isnt falling. Relax.
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I'll poke in with a couple of final thoughts on the subject then butt out.
Obviously a number of people are comfortable with 'squad nite' imbalances in the CT. That's cool.
I just don't think it's universally agreed that such a numbers imbalance is going to attract more people to the arena. I suspect -- could be wrong -- that Reschke's initial reaction is a common one. I also suspect he had a pretty tough sell getting folks in the MA to follow him to the CT under those conditions.
The long and short of it is that it's been suggested that the squads consider coordinating with one another rather than all flying at the same time for the same country, and the ones in question are not interested in doing that. It was a suggestion. It was booted. End of story. We all get along from here.
Finally, much has been made of the ingracious chatter on channel 1 Tuesday night. Fair enough. I saw it, too, and some of the taunting I read was excessive -- but no more so than the name-calling in this thread on this bulletin board. Such attacks and insults are inappropriate in either case, and only serve to goad a response in kind.
See y'all on my six in the CT.
Splash1
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You are right splash, I have been a bad monkey. We are currently working on a fix for this problem (squads from the same side having squad night together, not me being a bad monkey).
I think your suggestion is a good one, but the problem lies in the lack of any axis ct squad existing outside of the lw plane set. We are heavily discussing this within the vf27.
We will keep the ct posted.
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I'm used to fighting against the odds from my time with the 27 Sentai in WB 2.xx Historical Arena. So I decided that we (308 RAF) would fly Axis this setup. It still was no fun. Don't know if it is the plane mix, but I felt helpless. Called squad night off early and logged. Didn't fly rest of the week.
I have no solutions - unless it is give the Ki-84 to the IJAAF!
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You felt helpless with the zero? Man, whenever I get behind a japanese plane and come across f6fs or f4us I feel like I have the sweet position. Since we fly against the japanese planes all the time I have come to really respect them, and enjoy flying them when we practice. I have had very good luck in the ki and the zero against american iron. I dont fly the nik for obvious reasons, but that plane kicks some serious butt I hear.
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erg
It was more going into combat 2 against 6, with the 6 being P38's
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ahh.........
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Originally posted by ergRTC
You are right splash, I have been a bad monkey. We are currently working on a fix for this problem (squads from the same side having squad night together, not me being a bad monkey).
We will keep the ct posted.
LOL!
:)
eskimo
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Hey Wild Blue, I know where you're coming from. You guys have many times split your squad either side to help the balance. We are trying to establish a 308 RAF presence in the CT, so naturally we like to fly allied when British planes are available. We try to make up for it by lying Axis at other times. Also, of course you want to fly USN iron when possible. We knew going in that we would fly IJN to give you guys an opponent - there were just too few of us to make much of a difference, although we had a great time with a squad of P47's earlier in the night.
I don't know the answer, and I hate to see Lowe and oboe formally split the squad when you guys do such a great job of informally sidebalancing.
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ROFL WildBlue :p
Shine on you crazy diamond
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Okay, my little week long rant is over. Made a few good points, and a few that were out there in left field:rolleyes: . I've calmed down, deleted posts, and got off my high horse now. Everything else combined with a few RL snags had me pretty worked up, lol.
all.