Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bozon on June 21, 2002, 10:38:10 AM

Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: bozon on June 21, 2002, 10:38:10 AM
I joined my squadies trying to capture a knit base.
after some skirmishing and putting all 3400 bullets of the p-47D11 "spitbolt" into good use, I was running back home on the deck with a 109 trailing me from afar.

as I'm approaching home base, I see a dot growing on my 10oc. that dot turned out to be a knit goon otw to my base.
as I had no bullets to shoot him down, I passed him by wing-to-wing, waved goodbye and continued running for landing with the 109 behind me (and calling goon's location on country channel).

comming close to the base I see the town fully down, with no freindlies in position to kill the goon. So I turn back and decide my only option is to ram him.
I closed on his 6 and flew through him as he goes straight and level. I was "inside" him for over a second - my jug broke into pieces while the goon went on for the drop...

the points:
1. how "legit" is this ramming?
2. if so, how should I do it to make it work? I made sure to come slow enough so on his machine the update would put my jug inside his c-47 as well. could be net lag caused a quantum leap on his machine?

Bozon
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: K West on June 21, 2002, 10:52:43 AM
"So I turn back and decide my only option is to ram him."

 And some of you maroons (see past collision whines here and in the gameplay forum) actually want to change the current collision system to ensure mutual "death"?

 Bozon, you died because YOU rammed him. He did not collide with you so he was fine.  IN AH you cannot intentionally RAM anyone in AH with the nose of your aircraft, no matter what some of the vocaly ignorant bleet out on channel 1 (nIce rAm dWeEb!) in the MA.

Which is as it should be imNSHO.

  Westy
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Ripsnort on June 21, 2002, 10:54:17 AM
What westy said.
Title: Re: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Gypsy Baron on June 21, 2002, 11:41:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by bozon

-SNIP-
2. if so, how should I do it to make it work? I made sure to come slow enough so on his machine the update would put my jug inside his c-47 as well. could be net lag caused a quantum leap on his machine?

Bozon


 You should have flown under him and then pulled up sharply
 in front of him, thereby hopefully causing HIM to ram you...

 I accomplished this ONCE against a Lanc after I was out
 of ammo in a 109...he died, I didn't...
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: bozon on June 21, 2002, 12:15:03 PM
Quote
And some of you maroons (see past collision whines here and in the gameplay forum) actually want to change the current collision system to ensure mutual "death"?

hehe, never asked and never will ask for such a thing :)

just wanted to know how many of you think this is "dirty playing" and/or how this collision thing works.
(btw, I've read the other collision thread by now)

Bozon
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: jarbo on June 21, 2002, 12:29:16 PM
Well this may be overkill, but this is how I understand net lag in the game.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: DmdNexus on June 21, 2002, 12:32:51 PM
Well... sheesh.. bust my bubble,

And here I was thinking all Goons were EWEs when they are really RAMs!
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: AKIron on June 21, 2002, 12:35:47 PM
Have to disagree about not being able to ram another plane. It doesn't seem too difficult to do if neither plane is manuvering very much and both are on the same flight path. Net lag does make it difficult if the above is not true.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Fester' on June 21, 2002, 01:45:01 PM
IVe done it in a yak on a number of times when I run out of ammo and dont feel like RTB'ing.

YOu need to be fast enough to overtake the target, just figgure that his FE will always sho you 20-30 yds behind where you see yourself to be.

You need to fly through him fast enough to accomodate this discrepancy.

Of course if he is manuevering this really complicates the matter.

Ive tried it twice and was successful both times.  Both were against non manuevering relatively slow targets.

Yes it was a mutual death, but IM a score potato and that extra kill really strokes my ego.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: SKurj on June 21, 2002, 01:45:02 PM
its difficult but i have intentionally rammed planes a couple of times... and several times by accident +)

I used my goon to ram a fighter intent on killing my troops.. it worked... +)
the slower both cons are travelling the better the odds you both will detect a collision


SKurj
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: AKSWulfe on June 21, 2002, 02:31:45 PM
See, but you guys aren't actually ramming when you use net lag to force your ghost plane into the other players on his FE.. you're just gaming the net...

Can't say I haven't done it, but it's not actually ramming.. :)
-SW
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: AcId on June 21, 2002, 03:41:32 PM
I've rammed a goon with a winchester Typh before. We both went down, mission accomplished :D
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: rc51 on June 21, 2002, 03:42:25 PM
There should be NO place for ramming on purpose!!!!!
That Is the most moronis crap Ive heard yet!
Learn to fly then learn to fight and stop trying to find the cowards way out of a mess!!!!:mad:
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Mr Hanky on June 21, 2002, 04:35:07 PM
Whenever there is an Me-262 in the area, I will up in a goon and try to ram him.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Kratzer on June 21, 2002, 04:41:49 PM
Disallowing ramming on some sort of moral or ethical basis is ridiculous.  If someone flies well enough to hit someone else on purpose, let 'em.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Dinger on June 21, 2002, 05:04:43 PM
Airing the Orchid's right: dive in below, and pull out in front of the enemy.  Fly down the direction of flight of the target.  If he doesn't move, he collides.
It is a ram, a "lag-ram".
I did it once intentionally and got a C47 vs. C47 A2A kill.  He came back, and we had one of the better dogfights I've experienced.

It's extremely rare, and the conditions have to be perfect.  99.9% of the "rams" you hear about on channel one are not lag-rams.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Thrawn on June 21, 2002, 05:15:32 PM
I've rammed a Lanc and a Niki with a goon before, to protect my drunks.  Worked like a charm.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Hangtime on June 21, 2002, 05:18:44 PM
I've rammed a buncha times. It's easy to play chicken in a virtual airplane. It's fine indeed to hear the immediate whines. I keep a  nice fresh gouda in arms reach so that I might savor the whine more fully.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: X2Lee on June 21, 2002, 07:44:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by K West
"So I turn back and decide my only option is to ram him."

 And some of you maroons (see past collision whines here and in the gameplay forum) actually want to change the current collision system to ensure mutual "death"?

  Westy


Ya maroon, all I says before is a ram kills both pilots in the REAL world.
Yall harp about the game being real, well 2 planes collide they BOTH go down...
Dont take a maroon to figure that out. I think planes crashing into
the cvs outta do damage too. Guess Im a maroon again. we all know that wouldnt be a viable tactic  :rolleyes:
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Viper17 on June 21, 2002, 08:34:18 PM
The Russians used it to down bombers. Think thel called it "Tarrin" or something.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Wotan on June 21, 2002, 08:56:18 PM
This is why no one can "ram you". What you see on your fe is what matters. The goon didnt see a colision you died you got the damage.

All those other threads where folks claim "they know how to ram" or know that folks purposely rammed them is nothing but bs.

If you collide on your fe its your fault just like killshooter.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: J_A_B on June 21, 2002, 09:46:49 PM
All those other threads where folks claim "they know how to ram" or know that folks purposely rammed them is nothing but bs.

Actually it isn't BS, although you're correct in that the FE that detects the collision is the person who gets killed from it.  What you have to be able to do is guess the lag and put your plane where it hits them on their FE.    Not easy by any means (far easier to just shoot em), but not impossible either.  The worst part about it is, if done properly, you kill the other guy and get away scott free.

If you actually DO hit them, chances are he won't die because his FE won't see the collision.

Trying to use this offensively on purpose is gamey and pathetic.  I wouldn't call it cheating per se, but it's not far removed.

J_A_B
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Dinger on June 21, 2002, 10:20:15 PM
J_A_B I concur.  IT's a dumb tactic.
It works when people are asleep.
This is one of the few cases where informing the public helps prevent it.  Air is big; planes are small.
I only recommend it if you're flying a C-47. Any other plane, if yourve wated your ammo and there's a C-47 nearby, you're an idiot, and you deserve to die. Period.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Fester' on June 22, 2002, 12:24:03 AM
I havent tried the net lag lead ram.  The times Ive done it Ive simply flown through slower planes at enough speed to carry my plane through enough space to show on his FE.

Intentional Ramming was done in real life.  Dont get your panties in a bunch.+

I dont see it as gaming the game, at least it wasnt the times I did it.  I flew right up his 6 and we both died.  That ws the intent and that was the outcome.

The ethics police in here crack me up, next you'll be telling me to put pants on when I fly :)
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Shane on June 22, 2002, 12:29:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
All those other threads where folks claim "they know how to ram" or know that folks purposely rammed them is nothing but bs.


not it's not... i was bingo ammo once in a spit, this other spit couldn't get me after some tnb he took off level ( i was on his 6 in the tnb saying "bang bang".  i eventually got under him and then tried my damnedest to go up in front of him to see if i could get him to ram *me* - sure enough he did, actually it was mutual, he blew up and my tail came off.

so it *is* possible to game the collision code, but it's not easy, nor guarenteed that you'll get the other guy to ram *you* as opposed to misjudging and taking the collision oneself.

:rolleyes:
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Wotan on June 22, 2002, 02:38:57 AM
repeat it with film.

Every has some story as to "guessing lag" BS
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: bozon on June 22, 2002, 09:24:42 AM
Quote
Air is big; planes are small.

Dinger/CFIT,
are you an air traffic controller by any chance?

Bozon
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: SELECTOR on June 22, 2002, 09:47:07 AM
make rams death for all parties concerned..its only fair..or turn it off completly..:D
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: J_A_B on June 22, 2002, 11:06:13 AM
"Every has some story as to "guessing lag" BS"

If you think it's impossible to do on purpose, then why does it happen on accident?  EVERY collision in AH involves lag to some extent; the only difference between an accidental collision and a deliberate one is intention.

J_A_B
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Kevin14 on June 22, 2002, 11:36:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rc51
There should be NO place for ramming on purpose!!!!!
That Is the most moronis crap Ive heard yet!
Learn to fly then learn to fight and stop trying to find the cowards way out of a mess!!!!:mad:


OMG, It would take bravery to ram someone, sacrifice your possible perk points to keep a base yours. Like how Bozon started out this thread he had no ammo left and wanted to kill a goon instead of letting it capture his base. Collisions should take an effect on both players, its not fair that the person with a faster computer gets the down side of the deal.
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: Mino on June 22, 2002, 12:28:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
I've rammed a buncha times. It's easy to play chicken in a virtual airplane. It's fine indeed to hear the immediate whines. I keep a  nice fresh gouda in arms reach so that I might savor the whine more fully.


LOL :)

Where you been Hangtime?
Title: goon ramming. etic and technic
Post by: SKurj on June 22, 2002, 01:30:21 PM
Its not fair SELECTOR +)

this has been discussed many times...

If you both die... the host detects a collision on player A's Fe, but none on player B's Fe, who missed the collision by 100 meters.  Player A blows up almost immediately, player B blows up 1.5 seconds later when he is well past the 'collision' that never happened on his Fe.

Now, if u listen.. u can hear the whines already

Collision modelling is fine as it currently stands.  if YOU don't evade YOU will hit something  and thats all that matters.


SKurj