Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: akak on June 23, 2002, 02:58:14 PM
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Here's a film of me fighting a Bf109 in a P-38L. It's a damn good fight and probably ranks amongst one of the best 1v1 fights I've had in the 6 months I've played AH.
P-38L vs. bf109 (http://www.hispanicvista.com/ahfilms/film57.ahf)
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Nice fight. And amazing how the P38 can hang on prop (+flaps) at 80mph and still be a stable gun platform, ;)
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ride a n1k on prop at 20 mph while firing. be even more amazed ;)
nice film too! :D :D
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i knew tac would mention the n1k :D but guess what? HT doesn't have any plans on changing it anytime soon prolly won't change 'til we get another n1k ver. or another uber plane for newbies and only HT knows when that's gonna happen.... could be years away :(
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Originally posted by Kaz
i knew tac would mention the n1k :D but guess what? HT doesn't have any plans on changing it anytime soon prolly won't change 'til we get another n1k ver. or another uber plane for newbies and only HT knows when that's gonna happen.... could be years away :(
Niki isn't all that scary, in fact it is one of the easiest planes to shoot down. Niki strengths are its decent turn rate and 4x 20mm cannons. I know Tac and I disagree on this but I think that roping Nikis is the most effective way of shooting one down. In my opinion, the P-38L is just more effective in the vertical and can easily counter the so-called "uber" vertical ability of the Niki.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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I would only agree to that akak if the 38 had massive E advantage... as in n1k is 250mph and 38 is near compression. It WILL hang on prop and stay there until you flip over in stall and whack you with d900 spray while in full control at 20 mp'ish...with WEP on too :D
Ironically, the only way I find to actually ROPE the damn n1k is to LET it get close (but not at a fast close rate, maybe weaving left and right with shallow flat sciscors till it get to within d1.3).. then POWERDIVE to near compression and pull hard up on a hammerhead. If you time it right the n1k will be at d1.5 or d1.7 when you pull up, and if he follows you on the zoom he starts with lower E and with separation disadv.. thats when you can actually rope it. With a P-38 you can do a nifty trick to "flip around" instantly and not give the n1k a big, fat view of your dorsal planform... pull the 38s nose up till speed is actually 10 or 0 mph (with full flaps out btw), cut 1 engine throttle out, rudder hard to that engine's side.. the 38 will flip sideways superfast.. cut both engine's power halfway through the flip but keep the rudder pressed.. when nose down let go rudder and pull nose DOWN (no matter if nose IS pointing 90 degree down, your flaps will make it nose up and enter a flat spin, so KEEP pressure on nose down at this point). retract flaps while your powerless 38 falls earthwards.. and you can give the engines juice when you 100mph or more, giving them full power before that can stall you (well, my dual throttle is laggy in 1 engine so putting full on both makes 1 engine power faster and it enters me in spin, if you dont have this problem, juice em up at your convenience!)
Sounds complicated but you'll get to do it in a snap after a few tries.
Sadly, kaz is right. I dont even know if hes going to change it.. or fix the 38 dive flap and retracting flap issue.. OR if he even plans to add the auto-butterfly flaps to the n1k (last I heard they werent). Heck, im not new to waiting.. dozens of tours and still no green 38 heeheee *hint* *nudge*
*KICK*
-runs away-
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I don't care weither they change the n1k2 or not, for me it is a total BS FM but I made my peace with that fact. I don't fly em and I'm careful attacking them.
I agree with Tac, you have to be very careful trying to rope&dope a nik, their E retention is unreal and their stability at 0-20mph unbelievable.
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Great info on the 38's flipping ability. I used to fly the 38 often in AW but I've found I get owned a lot flying it in Aces. Could you elaborate on one part of this? I can flip the 38 like you mentioned quite nicely, the problem is it always seems to get atleast two tumbles before I regain controlled flight. the 38 is obviously in a major stall at the top of that climb and only it's amazing flaps keep it hanging there. My question is, can you immedinately recover without doing a few tumbles? I've wathced my fims from these maneuvers, the 38 is amazing at the top of these moves.
Thanks,
UnDeth
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the tumbles you say are caused by your flaps pulling nose up. Keep a steady nose down force on your nose, you wont tumble. Also, that is why you cut both engines halfway in the flip, the engine you have on will cause you to roll in that direction after the flip, giving you a lot of control problems at near 0 mph. So cut it off and voila! no rolling tendency :)
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Another way to do it, which is more simple but does not present itself very often when in combat is to actually do it without using flaps.
The 38 wont have any nose-pulling tendency due to the flaps, BUT that means you will have to literally fly straight up..so you wont be able to twist a bit if the con on your 6 sprays your way.
To do it without flaps, just point nose up till below 40 mph.. best if near 0 mph, cut 1 engine, rudder to that engine's side and it will flip.
Now, to not tumble on this one you need to CUT power to the engine thats still on when your nose points below horizon and give FULL power to the other engine. when your plane no longer pulls to a side, turn both engines to full power and go baby!
1)nose up till 0 mph
2)cut engine #1 to 0 man
3)rudder hard to side of engine #1
4)when nose below horizon CUT engine #2, at the same time turn Engine #1 to full power
5)let go of rudder after engine #1 is turned back on
6)with your 38 nose now pointing straight down, get both engines to max man and enjoy.
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Here's a film with several ways to do the hammerhead.
At the end I put in a "Panic" Hammerhead, VERY usefull when you got a conga line on your ass. Its basically the same hammerhead as mentioned above except that this one does things in opposite way. You zoom up with engines to 0 man to kill your speed quickly and flip by powering the engine on the side you want to flip to, once nosed down, full power. With a conga line on your ass, if you survive to flip, chances are your opponents are doing a loop as they pull to get back on your 6, which will give them a WHOLE lotta separation all the meanwhile you've been on a powerdive and gaining mucho speed while your opponents are on top of loop at less than 100mph. Of course, the trick is to not get shot while you do it *G*
http://www.geocities.com/tacwraith/TAC38HAMMERHEAD.zip
EDIT: Above link is a GEOCITIES link. You will need to COPY the link and paste it in your browser to download.
1 meg long.
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Heya Tac,
I lost a F4U-4 to a NIK2 the other day in the same way you discribed. I was using a virtical rope and he got me while standing on his arse at 20MPH. I'm not a big NIK2 whiner but this one really surprised me. I have the film and I will post it in another thread.
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Tac,
Couldnt download the clip...would love to see it. colud you check the link or even email it to me ... macmac123@aol.com.
Thanx
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Originally posted by Tac
I would only agree to that akak if the 38 had massive E advantage... as in n1k is 250mph and 38 is near compression. It WILL hang on prop and stay there until you flip over in stall and whack you with d900 spray while in full control at 20 mp'ish...with WEP on too :D
I've never had to do that to rope a Niki. The only time I've been caught by a Niki while trying to rope one is when the Niki had an overwhelming altitude advantage over me. I thought I had forced the Niki (flown by Javier) to blow enough E for me to rope him but he caught me as I was coming over the top. The only time I dip my nose down for some extra speed is when I'm around 250-275mph on the merge, then I'll dip my nose down and unload until my speed gets above 300mph and then pull into the rope using either a normal basic zoom climb with either a stall loop or hammerhead to get over the top, a double Immel or even sometimes if I see the Niki still coming up after the double Immel, I'll throw in a hammerhead or a stall loop on top of the double Immel. If I've got a lot of E at the merge, then I'll do a triple Immel for the rope. I have a tougher time roping Spitfire MkIX's then I do Niki's.
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th FG - Riddle's Raiders
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Originally posted by Tac
I would only agree to that akak if the 38 had massive E advantage... as in n1k is 250mph and 38 is near compression. It WILL hang on prop and stay there until you flip over in stall and whack you with d900 spray while in full control at 20 mp'ish...with WEP on too :D
Ironically, the only way I find to actually ROPE the damn n1k is to LET it get close (but not at a fast close rate, maybe weaving left and right with shallow flat sciscors till it get to within d1.3).. then POWERDIVE to near compression and pull hard up on a hammerhead. If you time it right the n1k will be at d1.5 or d1.7 when you pull up, and if he follows you on the zoom he starts with lower E and with separation disadv.. thats when you can actually rope it. With a P-38 you can do a nifty trick to "flip around" instantly and not give the n1k a big, fat view of your dorsal planform... pull the 38s nose up till speed is actually 10 or 0 mph (with full flaps out btw), cut 1 engine throttle out, rudder hard to that engine's side.. the 38 will flip sideways superfast.. cut both engine's power halfway through the flip but keep the rudder pressed.. when nose down let go rudder and pull nose DOWN (no matter if nose IS pointing 90 degree down, your flaps will make it nose up and enter a flat spin, so KEEP pressure on nose down at this point). retract flaps while your powerless 38 falls earthwards.. and you can give the engines juice when you 100mph or more, giving them full power before that can stall you (well, my dual throttle is laggy in 1 engine so putting full on both makes 1 engine power faster and it enters me in spin, if you dont have this problem, juice em up at your convenience!)
Sounds complicated but you'll get to do it in a snap after a few tries.
Sadly, kaz is right. I dont even know if hes going to change it.. or fix the 38 dive flap and retracting flap issue.. OR if he even plans to add the auto-butterfly flaps to the n1k (last I heard they werent). Heck, im not new to waiting.. dozens of tours and still no green 38 heeheee *hint* *nudge*
*KICK*
-runs away-
Tac, what throttles are you using? I've been tryin to find dual throttles for some time now?
Thanks in advance
Zaphod
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Originally posted by humble
Tac,
Couldnt download the clip...would love to see it. colud you check the link or even email it to me ... macmac123@aol.com.
Thanx
Read buddy, you have to copy the link and paste it on your address bar in the browser. Geocities does not allow linking to anything but html pages, but if you type the link in your address bar and press GO, it will download it.
F4UDOA: I bet he was firing AND with full wep all the time. heehee. id love to see your film :)
Zaphod: I have a SUNCOM dual throttle. I highly reccomend it. HOWEVER you should bear in mind that
A) SUNCOM is out of bussiness
B) Its an analog stick. It WILL spike like a slut's orgasmogram readout eventually
I'd go for a USB myself if I knew of one that didnt go over 100 bucks. Them toys expensive dammit. If anyone could tell us of a dual throttle USB stick, please give URL!!! :)
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Tac, the move you talk about should be able to be accomplished with a single throttle and individual engine kill/start switches right? Or do you have to cycle the throttle to bring the recently restarted engine up to full power?
Just curious.
TY
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Sure you can do it with single engine throttle. You'll have to have mighty fast fingers to hit shift-1 or 2 and then move the throttle lever all the while keeping your other hand on the stick...
but chances are its too hard to do it.
You may try mapping 1 of your engine's throttle to a stick/throttle stick key so you can do it. Its tricky enough to time it right with a dual throttle, i dunno if a single throttle can pull it off. Let me know if you can! :)
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I think I missread your initial post, but I in my missread I think I might be able to do it with a single throttle, the flip reverse.
Can you start and stop engines independantly? I think I remember reading that you can, tho I dont know the keystroke to kill or start engine 1 or 2 separately. I know kill both engines is E. Maybe shift-1-e to kill engine 1. Something like that.
Anyway, At the top of the manuever, to bring power off 1 and accentuate the yaw control to the left, just kill engine 1. Youd probably have to restart it again right away given the ramp up time, but I think it would have the desired effect of removing power from that engine.
A keystroke like that could be mapped to a button or hat on the stick to make the procedure easier while using a single throttle.
Think that might work?
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Originally posted by Tac
A) SUNCOM is out of bussiness
B) Its an analog stick. It WILL spike like a slut's orgasmogram readout eventually
I'd go for a USB myself if I knew of one that didnt go over 100 bucks. Them toys expensive dammit. If anyone could tell us of a dual throttle USB stick, please give URL!!! :)
Check out the Rockfire USB game port adaptor. It will allow you to use your SunCom through the USB port instead of the legacy analog game port you have now. Will eliminate any spikes caused by the analog signals from the game port and still allow you to program your SunCom throttle. Works with my Suncom throttle as well as my CH Pro Throttle. Now I just need the USB Pro Pedals so I can use the dual throttle in AH
:p
ack-ack
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I do have my suncom throttle using a USB adapter, it does not eliminate the spikes, it just allows it to plug to USB port. You did say spikes from gameport, but the stick itself also spikes. Need a digital only stick for this hehehe.
OriginalFester ;) :
Shift-1 selects engine 1. Any throttle related command (manifold, turn on/off) you do will only affect engine 1
shift-2 selects engine 2.
shift-e selects BOTH engines.
as to mapping it to stick... I really dont know man.
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I think if you turn one engine off, then hit shift-e, it will turn the engine back on.
You have to hit control-e (I think) to control just the engines that are still running (not a problem in 2 engine planes, is handy with 3 or more).
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Thanks much TAC.
Your film was quite helpful, esp the WHEEEE parts, I found that quite helpful :)
I don't think I was cutting the other engine early enough and I was over rotating. I still don't look as good as you doing them but I can execute the maneuver fairly well now.
I wish I had a nice dual throttle...
Thanks again for the tips.
UnDeth
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Originally posted by Tac
You did say spikes from gameport, but the stick itself also spikes. Need a digital only stick for this hehehe.
Then you have failing potentiometers in your throttle. One thing I learned from my time at CH was if the game port wasn't causing the spikes than 99% of the time it's the potentiometers in the stick. Try cleaning the contacts on the pot with contact cleaner and see if the spikes go away, if not then try replacing them. If I remember correctly, the SunCom throttle uses the same 100k pots as the CH sticks, so finding replacement potentiometers shouldn't be hard.
Ack-Ack
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akak now u have my mind working overtime:p using a cheap as u can get stick (it's my bro's stick). works well for its intended purpose, flight simulator 2k, fly! etc. but sux majorly in AH and the spiking is getting worse.
so i'm thinking maybe i can replace the cheap as heck pots with some real industrial strength ACME pots :D
don't let me down now say it can be done!!:)
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Originally posted by Kaz
akak now u have my mind working overtime:p using a cheap as u can get stick (it's my bro's stick). works well for its intended purpose, flight simulator 2k, fly! etc. but sux majorly in AH and the spiking is getting worse.
so i'm thinking maybe i can replace the cheap as heck pots with some real industrial strength ACME pots :D
don't let me down now say it can be done!!:)
Usually if you contact the joystick's manufacturer and tell them you have a failing potentiometer, they will send you some out either for free or for a small charge. If they won't ask them for the potentiometer specs so you can get one from a company like State Electronics (http://www.potentiometers.com/).
Ack-Ack