Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wilbus on June 23, 2002, 04:58:31 PM
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Ok, I am seriously pissed off, VERY nice sortie in my 190 A8, 4 kills then I come down on an LA7, fill him from top to bottom, wingtip to wingtip, tail to cockpit with 20mm and as we all know it can take more dammage then anything in the entire game and he kept flying, sooo I contineued after him and after about 1 min blew his tail off, now, while I blew his tail of hom this GD "friendly" LA7 dweeb comes from underneth me (I use tracers so he saw me firing) pull up right infront of me and steal my kill AND kill me! Change the freaking thing and make it something similair to stick freeze when you stick stirr. Freeze controll for 5 or 10 seconds. As it is now it just plain SUCKS, getting killed because some dweeb pull up infront of you, THEY should be penalized for it!
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PS. SOrry bout all typos, I am stilled Pissed off.
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I still like killshooter the way it is, for many of the reasons brought up in the other 3,482,397 posts about it.
SOB
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I would rather have your guns freeze for 5-10 seconds, then killshooter, but i guess i could live with it.
BTW: I think kill shooter should be disabled on perk planes. Most perk planes have Big guns (262, 152, Temp, ect) and it only takes 1 ping to do you in.
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The other 3,482,397 post have all been right, it sucks bad, dweebs can do whatever they want missuse the system to 100%.
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Wow....very nice. I especially like the way you throw the LW gun whine in there with a subtle phrase like:
fill him from top to bottom, wingtip to wingtip, tail to cockpit with 20mm and as we all know it can take more dammage then anything in the entire game
I believe you deserve extra bonus points for that.
Oh...by the way, to stay on topic....killshooter works just fine the way it is. IMO of course.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
The other 3,482,397 post have all been right, it sucks bad, dweebs can do whatever they want missuse the system to 100%.
When there's a friendly following a con with you, be easy on your trigger finger, kinda like you would in real life. No need to punish the guy in front of your guns any further than he already is. The ability for the guys pursuing him to screw up and shoot themselves down is sometimes the only thing he's got going for him.
SOB
PS. Don't screw up and shoot your teammate next time, and you won't get killshootered.
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Originally posted by SOB
PS. Don't screw up and shoot your teammate next time, and you won't get killshootered.
That's unfair, SOB, and you know it :).
I know you've put it tongue in cheek, just to stir the pot a bit...that's not bad, but I think you already have done that with what you had already posted without needing to get him more mad with that last PS ,huhm? :)
I don't think KS is bad, even when yep, I've been in Wilbus' boots a couple of times and I've also cursed really loud. Problem is, that of all the tradeoffs I can think about, killshooter may not be the best...
but is the least bad.
One thing I agree, is as someone stated: disabling KS in perk planes and substitute it for some kind of gun freeze or control lock is a very very good idea.
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Killshooter = good
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I just wish the bullets I am firing worked as well as killshooter bullets. I've never survived killshooter bullets :D
Take a breath Wilbus, could be worse. Could have WB's collision bubble here. You want to talk about pissed ???
NOTHIN is worse than that.
As my kitchen set can attest..
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Imagine your frustration if that friendly dweeb LA7 tried to shoot that enemy LA7 over your shoulder only to hit you and take your tail off.
I prefer the current "lesser of 2 evils" system.
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Originally posted by Steven
Imagine your frustration if that friendly dweeb LA7 tried to shoot that enemy LA7 over your shoulder only to hit you and take your tail off.
I prefer the current "lesser of 2 evils" system.
I don't think that's what he wants either.
I sympathize with Wilbus, I've kill shot myself because of some stunninghunk jumping in front of me.
Bullets hitting friendly planes just shouldn't do anything, not hurt yourself and not hurt the friendly plane.
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Sling, Knight LW cannons have been neutered , I am dead serious on that matter !
:mad: :mad: :mad: QUAAAAH !:mad: :mad: :mad: ;)
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Not enough ? and !, but otherwise, it has a good beat and you can dance to it....I give it an 8.
Cobra Out!!!!????))))___!!!!!???""!!!::!!!!
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I've never died from killshooter when I didn't mean to do it.
Very simple to avoid.
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I've never died from killshooter when I didn't mean to do it.
Oh so you do sometimes on purpose:eek: :confused: :p
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I'd agree if it weren't for Wil berating the poor bugger on ch2 after the "incident". Pretty sad display really.
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Originally posted by RRAM
That's unfair, SOB, and you know it :).
I know you've put it tongue in cheek, just to stir the pot a bit...that's not bad, but I think you already have done that with what you had already posted without needing to get him more mad with that last PS ,huhm? :)
Yeah, maybe just a little unfair, but I had to do it anyhow. :)
SOB
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Originally posted by Aub
I've never died from killshooter when I didn't mean to do it.
Very simple to avoid.
Just wait till some turkey flies through your bomb blast at 10ft while your at 10k :D
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Here's one I run into more often then the group-hug chasing a single con thing. You climb to 14k and bounce an F4U just 2k under you. He freaks 'cause he knows he's a dweeb, so he runs for your field with all the speed he can muster, dives into the ack and starts shooting the first plane he can find. Meanwhile, you catch up to him and end up killing yourself trying to save the one plane on the ground.
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jpeg said:
Bullets hitting friendly planes just shouldn't do anything, not hurt yourself and not hurt the friendly plane.
I agree; this is the only possible solution. Not the best solution, but the only one that will satisfy all parties.
I think we agree that there needs to be something in place to prevent or at least limit griefing. The question is what should it be?
Way back in the past, HT coulnd't help shooting friendlies so got into trouble with AW's PNG feature a few times. And this event damaged his psyche to the extent that to this day he refuses to implement a PNG system. OK, so be it.
Problem is, PNG worked. Killshooter doesn't work. True it prevents 1 form of griefing, but by its very nature it's a wide-open door for another type. If you don't think we have a griefer population that exploits killshooter, you're kidding yourself. And even if you don't buy that, you have to admit that there is a huge number of players, who probably don't consider themselves to be griefers, who regularly cut in front of other guys because they know they can get away with it. So the net impact is as if we had a large number of deliberate griefers. Killshooter is supposed to prevent griefing, but it doesn't. Hence, it's a failure.
So, if PNG is out of the question, the only option is to turn off friendly bullets just like friendly collisions. Guess what? There'd be no possible way to grief then, either directly or indirectly. And how is that any less realistic than killshooter? Killshooter is less credible than JFK's "magic bullet". At least with no friendly bullet hits, you don't have bullets reversing course ;).
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I have to dissagree with the above post. There is nothing that satisfies me more than when I am being chased by 4+ enemies, when all of a sudden a couple of them blow up for shooting their teammates in front of them. Gives me a warm, fuzzy felling just thinking about it :D
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bullets not hurting friendly planes would result in a shootout like in Top Secret movie. Bunch of Germans and Americans were fighting hand to hand, a hero takes machine gun and sprays wild at all of them. Only Germans fall down...;)
No selective lethality, please.
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Yep I hate killshooter because guys know they can get away with it. Thats why I think both parties should be accountable. 50% guy in front, 100% guy in rear in terms of hits not total damage.
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HATE killshooter,Id rather you were able to kill friendlies,but have it emblazoned accross the screen 'JOC killed a friendly!!' and you'd have to live with the embarrasment,Ive been killed 3 times this week due to idiots bursting to claim a kill getting in the way of my rounds, f&%^*&&&ers :mad:
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Our killshooter is a nonsense. That kind of punishment is absurd and is against any kind of gameplay and fun.
Just imagine the typical player with few minutes to play, most of that time just traveling for base to combat zone and then "ping" and back to the base. And dont tell me that the blame is always in the shooting plane, i've seen some pilots geting into the bullet streams of others on purpose, with no angle at all to even steal the kill.
Disable the guns for some minutes, reduce the ammo counts proportionaly to the damage done, whatever but killing the plane.
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Originally posted by Aub
I've never died from killshooter when I didn't mean to do it.
Very simple to avoid.
you will... and then after about the 7th or 8th time you will think,
KILLSHOOTER SUCKS! :eek:
I guess Id rather take the damage than killing a buddy tho.
But the guy that cuts you off? Would be nice to have selective killshooter
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Originally posted by Bullethead
jpeg said:
Problem is, PNG worked. Killshooter doesn't work. Killshooter is supposed to prevent griefing, but it doesn't. Hence, it's a failure.
So, if PNG is out of the question, the only option is to turn off friendly bullets just like friendly collisions. Guess what? There'd be no possible way to grief then, either directly or indirectly. And how is that any less realistic than killshooter? Killshooter is less credible than JFK's "magic bullet". At least with no friendly bullet hits, you don't have bullets reversing course ;).
Man makes too much sense, from a realism standpoint and a gaming one. I think you should pay a price tho, bullit streams tho freindlies is too airwarriorBS.
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Killshooter is needed unles somehting just as efective is introduced and proven to work.
Kill shooter is handy at times, i was up in the air and i had a job come in so i needed to ditch, could have just stuck my nose forward but i went out a far more interresting way
i shot at my squaddie instead :)
satisfaction + death lol
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The typical example:
A friendly LANCASTER being pursued by the typical omnipresent Spit and you pursuing the spit.
You shot at the spit and BOOM, but.... hey, some bullets pass through the Spit explosion and hit the LANC, now you are spinning down wingless ...
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
The typical example:
A friendly LANCASTER being pursued by the typical omnipresent Spit and you pursuing the spit.
You shot at the spit and BOOM, but.... hey, some bullets pass through the Spit explosion and hit the LANC, now you are spinning down wingless ...
reduce the risk of kill shoter use a mc202 ;)
J/K :)
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That would also reduce the chances of the LANC to get alive :p
Just that happened to me twice the past tour, the moment where you see the distant small "flash" in the friendly buff through the enemy explossion is sublime ...
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Turning Killshooter off will make matters worse. Then killstealing will become an artform in itself. Can you imaging what it would be like. Mayhem.
My suggestion is that friendly bullets have no damaging effects but have a cost in perk points, say 2pps for every time you hit a friendly with enough ammo to damage it and .10pps for every bullet strike if you don't. IMHO that would stop the vulching.
Another thing I would love to see somewhere in AH is a feature which allow 2 pilots to exclusivly engage each other. If two pilots are in an area with no-one else around and they both agree to an exclusive engagement then both would get say a blue icon and would then be invincible to others who want to butt in on the party. However when there is a victor anyone is free to engage the winner. The main purpose of this is to of course promote the 1v1 which I am so fond of. I realise this would not be everyones cup of tea. Just an idea. Because if there's one thing I hate more than killshooter is when your tangling in a nice co-alt 1v1 and you look up to see half a squadron of spits diving in.
Gremlin.
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Would the invisible guys be able to shoot at other planes ? If so, I am all for it ;)
Straffo's suggestion is nice too. And to be even more radical, use c47 !
As for killshooter, imagine a situation where your bomber formation carpet bombs ground vehicles fighting each other. If killshooter is on, buffs die. If it is off, they are 21st century buffs.
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hehe Hristo, I said 'Invincible' not 'Invisible':D
Grem.
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oops, my bad ;)
still, invincible but shooting, hmmm....
Green channel: there are two fighting, 10, 11, 2, 5k ,both blue icons
Green channel: omw
Green channel: omw
Green channel: omw
Green channel: omw
Green channel: omw
Green channel: omw
imagine what happens to the victor after that
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Killshooter is good!
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Killshooter is fine.
Learn trigger control.
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Killshooter is fine the way it is.
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I have to agree with Wilbuz. Sometimes you just don't see them! I had friendlies come screeming in outta nowhere with less than 200 between you and the enemy. Absolutely no chance of letting up on the trigger. Period. Sometimes the fights actually last a long time and you can get fixated, then when the shot finally comes, you kill yourself. That is rediculous and a terrible reward for all your hard work.
Though I suggest the 'control freeze' happens to the friendly being hit, not the shooter. That could 'simulate' or 'substitute' for the damage he/she should have happened. All though that could be abused by individuals, they could be reported for their behavior just like when the get to creative on ch. 1.
Something has to be done about it IMHO. Especially in an open arena where it's every one for themselves.
ts
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Originally posted by Gremlin
say 2pps for every time you hit a friendly with enough ammo to damage it and
I like the idea, you'll be aware of that after the flight when you see you have -200 perks in the hangar ;)
Perk counter would need to be a signed value.
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SA
It applies to both watching enemies and friendlies.
-SW
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I think killshooter should be increased.
Not only does it kill you, but every friendly in the zone, and it makes you loose a base.....
How do you like them apples!
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
I think killshooter should be increased.
Not only does it kill you, but every friendly in the zone, and it makes you loose a base.....
How do you like them apples!
rofl! That's funny man.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
Ok, I am seriously pissed off, VERY nice sortie in my 190 A8, 4 kills then I come down on an LA7, fill him from top to bottom, wingtip to wingtip, tail to cockpit with 20mm and as we all know it can take more dammage then anything in the entire game and he kept flying, sooo I contineued after him and after about 1 min blew his tail off, now, while I blew his tail of hom this GD "friendly" LA7 dweeb comes from underneth me (I use tracers so he saw me firing) pull up right infront of me and steal my kill AND kill me! Change the freaking thing and make it something similair to stick freeze when you stick stirr. Freeze controll for 5 or 10 seconds. As it is now it just plain SUCKS, getting killed because some dweeb pull up infront of you, THEY should be penalized for it!
ok here is an idea.
as some of u are fond of saying it takes 2. and it does for KS,but as of right now, only 1 gets punished, the other goes scott free, either both get nail,or neither.
now for my idea:rolleyes:
ur shooting a enemy, friendly pulls up infront of u, or flies through ur plane or what ever. he get shot down by ur bullets, he/she loses thier plane. now things are set in motion. the friendly who
gets killed gets a mark on record for the tour as killed by friendly. 3 marks in 1 tour and u lose 50 perks, every mark after 3rd 1 is 50 more perks. maybe say after 5 u go PNG(no better word) and
only get goons and GVs for 24 hours.
now for the shooter
ammo counter resets to 0, u must land and replane to clear it.
for shooting down friendly plane u lose 20 perks, plus if its a perk plane he was in u lose half of what it cost or maybe full cost.
after 3 friendly kills, u go PNG no bombs/bullets for 24 hours, only goons/GVs. after 1st 3, each 1 after is automatic 24hour PNG.
lets say after 5 PNG changes to 48 hour PNG each time.
all is kept for a tour, and resets at start of new tour.
u can go - in perkpoints, and would have to build them back up for perk rides.
whels:D
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I can still count the times I've died to killshooter on one hand. :) (includes the CT as well.)
Now when killshooter is OFF, like in the TODs... I find I hit friendlies more often. ;)
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Best killshot ever was Santa & I both dying... while going for the same chute :D
But like Nifty said, it hasen't happened to me a lot. (I'd realy like to see killshooter off, just for one day... what a mess, poor squaddies ;))
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Best killshot ever was Santa & I both dying... while going for the same chute :D
LOL I'd have payed to hear what was said in RW after that!! :D
P.S. Whose chute was?...Creamo's? :D
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HOWARD JOHNSON'S RIGHT!!!
I think Bullet Head mentioned "PNG" I wasnt in AW when this was used, but as I understand it your bullets will damage a friendly plane. If you shoot down 2 or 3 (cant remember) friendlies in a day you dont get anymore ammo for that day. You can fly buffs or fulfill a role with the Ninja Recon Unit but no bullets. It's a 24 hour penalty.
Much MUCH more appropriate course of action in my mind. Anyone who was there have feedback on what it's shortcomings were?
For the record, Killshooter works, but it certaintly isnt perfect, looks like most are split on it's effectiveness and impact on quality of gameplay. If it's that tight then there is probably room for improvement. I dont know that I like just having no damage at all with bullets streaming through planes either, but then again, I think we should have friendly collisions, call me a freak I guess :)
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He was pissed, Kirin & I are still laughing :D
don't remember who it was, just another chute :)
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Come on wilbuz you know better.
Good pilot like you has died to Killshooter what, 3 maybe 4 times a year? Only guys yelling for killshooter changed are those flying in packs IMO.
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I flew AW for a long time - since '88.
PNG was fun.
It was great to get 3 or 4 guys on your 6 and have 2 or 3 of them get shot down by their mates.
After B17 (a player) made an bellybutton of himself by repeatedly killing folks, AW removed the PNG and allowed gangbangs with out penalty.
IMHO, some kind of mutual penalty should apply in the killshooter situation.