Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on June 23, 2002, 07:02:11 PM
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Is this (http://www.morons.org/articles/2/1691) true?
As is their right (or was their right, anyway) in this country, a group of students was planning to offer peaceful (and even silent) protest in the way of turning their backs to Bush while he was taking. But no, apparently the right to dissent, the right to disagree, has been sacrificed on the alter of.....something, either the "police action" on terror (it's not a war - Congress hasn't declared war, and the Constitution, the document dearest to my heart, says that only they can declare war), to Bush's thin-skinnedness, or whatever - to me, it doesn't matter, as I'd sacrifice my life before I sacrificed that right.
Anyway, on with the story: while lining up to enter, graduating students were told that they would be expelled and arrested if they turned their backs. They were alerted that dozens of staff members and police officers would be watching the stands, as well as the Secret Service. A few students asked for the definition of expulsion....did it mean removal from the stadium or refusal of their diplomas, or both? One of the persons at the front said "Both. And what will your parents do when they are paged from the crowd to bail out their son?"
So, resolute in their faith in the 1st Amendment, some students turned their back on Bush despite the threats against their entire futures. And they were immediately led out of the stadium by the cops. During the walk, the cops refused to say whether or not the students were under arrest. At the exit, the cops informed the students that they were being charged with disturbing the peace, but if they left (and this is THEIR GRADUATION, mind you), the charges would be dropped.
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Ausgezeichnet! :D
Hopefully Bush will start shooting them next! :rolleyes:
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*Sniff Sniff*
I smell urban myth.
Somebody check Snopes.
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Just did, no mention of it yet.
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liberal urban whine
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ok, so, citizens execising thier 1st amendment right to protest should be shot?
how very american.
maybe we should pledge allegience to herr shrub, instead of to the flag of the US of A?
just saying...
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who got shot???/
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Originally posted by john9001
who got shot???/
Buckwheat!! Buchwheat has been shot.! I repeat Buckwheat has been shot!!
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That is a roadkill story, probably based upon a true one. When GW was Guv, a student stood up and yelled naughty words in the State Legistature. He was charged with what ever the rule was he broke, but has since left Texas for parts unknown.
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Originally posted by KG45
ok, so, citizens execising thier 1st amendment right to protest should be shot?
We can only hope!
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Quote:
"it's not a war - Congress hasn't declared war, and the Constitution, the document dearest to my heart, says that only they can declare war), to Bush's thin-skinnedness, or whatever - to me, it doesn't matter, as I'd sacrifice my life before I sacrificed that right. "
ROFL!!!!
Cabby
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"By sharing the pain of a friend, or bearing the hopes of a child, or defending the liberty of your fellow citizens you will gain satisfaction that cannot be gained in any other way," Bush said.
Shrub said this while people were being expelled for doing just that.
Ol' Adolph would be proud to see his philosophy lives on......
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Well...considering that the source is http://www.morons.com, I think we have the answer to two questions right there.
1) What is the credability of the source, and
2) is it possible that some liberals know what they are
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I can't link to the Columbus Dispatch article from last Tuesday because registration is required.
"Ohio State University's high-profile commencement last week continues to grab national attention. But not the kind the university wants.
Held in Ohio Stadium with President Bush as speaker, the event has become a rallying cry for free-speech protection.
Ohio State has received more than 1,000 e-mails criticizing its handling of graduation -- mostly complaints that officials tried to silence protesters and took a blatantly pro-Bush stance.
University spokesmen say the cyber chatter has spun out of control and is riddled with inaccuracies.
Much of the flap concerns comments by Richard Hollingsworth, associate vice president for student affairs, who, as the ceremony began, threatened arrest for any disruption of commencement.
"Disruptions, including obstructing the view or hearing of others, will not be permitted. Persons who fail to follow the directions of university and law-enforcement officials will be removed from the stadium and subject to arrest,'' Hollingsworth told the crowd.
He had similarly warned graduates at rehearsal the day before.
Ohio State wanted to ensure that the event stayed focused on the graduation, said Lee Tashjian, vice president for communication. "We, as a university, certainly have no problems with dissent. But what we meant is peaceful, nonviolent dissent.''
The American Civil Liberties Union said OSU was within its rights to set limits, but the warning probably had a chilling effect.
"It's that open-ended structure of the threat, the standardlessness, that makes it pernicious. You don't know where the line is so you censor yourself,'' said Raymone Vasvari, legal director of ACLU's Ohio office, based in Cleveland.
"Is there a right for people to boo in (the stadium)? Probably. Is there the right for 50 people to boo and drown out the speaker? Probably not.''
Yoshie Furuhashi, an OSU graduate student who opposes U.S. foreign policy, among other things, and protested at commencement, said Hollingsworth's comments worked. "There would have been more people protesting if it hadn't been for that remark,'' she said.
A protest outside the stadium drew about 30 people who complained about Bush's politics and policy in Afghanistan.
By OSU's count, two students and six visitors stood up in the stadium and turned their backs to Bush while he spoke.
"They were politely approached (and told) not to obstruct the view of others, and they complied,'' said OSU spokeswoman Amy Murray. The protesters moved into aisles.
Standing up at graduation differs from rising during a football game because "in a football game . . . everybody at the stadium is standing up. And that's not a 20-minute long play, either,'' Murray said. Bush spoke for about 20 minutes, talking about the value of community service.
Tashjian said many of the e-mails, which ranged from effrontery to eloquence, were copied to various OSU officials, so he doesn't know how many people actually wrote.
"We have zero that came from people at the ceremony,'' he said.
The flood of feedback began after an Associated Press story was posted Friday on Yahoo's Web site that Tashjian said contained several factual errors, including that OSU asked for a round of applause for President Bush. The request was for OSU President William E. Kirwan because it was his last OSU graduation.
One New York watchdog group, Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting, sent 27,000 e-mails on Monday, critiquing media coverage of the event. Mikael Elsila, a Brooklyn, N.Y., musician, said the message shocked him.
"To me, that sounds like the beginning of a police state when you can't turn your back on the president,'' Elsila said.
Murray said the ground rules were set by top OSU officials who were mindful of another high-profile visit that went awry. In 1998, protesters heckled, shouted and chanted while U.S. cabinet members tried to discuss relations with Iraq at a town meeting in St. John Arena."
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Originally posted by john9001
liberal urban whine
LOL!
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Ahhh, we reap what we sow! Just remember, the same students, some of them, will be running the country someday...:rolleyes:
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Jeffrey Miller, Allison Krause, Bill Schroeder, Sandy Scheuer
We reap what we sow.
All dead May 4, 1970. Kent State University.
The reast of these student protesters from the same era ARE running the country now.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Jeffrey Miller, Allison Krause, Bill Schroeder, Sandy Scheuer
We reap what we sow.
All dead May 4, 1970. Kent State University.
The reast of these student protesters from the same era ARE running the country now.
Thank you for proving my point, we've been on a downhill slide since the mid-60's...:(
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Thank you for proving my point, we've been on a downhill slide since the mid-60's...:(
Minority representation ..........better
Opportunity for women ...........better
Information available to citizens .........better
Crime rates .........best in 30 years
Unemployment ............excellent numbers
Home Loan interest rates ..........lowest in 40 years
I hope the slide continues. :)
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At least your optimistic, I could rant for hours what liberalism has brought to our nation, short of why the Al Queda hates us as well....:rolleyes:
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as much as I hate to admit it. but from reading the parts of the story posted here, I don't think you can pin this one on Bush. IT looks like the 'college administrative flunky' was on a power trip, and didn't want the students to embarass him while his hero GW was there. You cant really hold the man responsable for what one of his fanboys did.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Minority representation ..........better
Opportunity for women ...........better
Information available to citizens .........better
Crime rates .........best in 30 years
Unemployment ............excellent numbers
Home Loan interest rates ..........lowest in 40 years
I hope the slide continues. :)
What was that about crime again? ;)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29717-2002Jun22.html
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bringing an end to a decline in violence that had resulted in the lowest crime levels in a generation, according to FBI statistics.
From your article.... Darn that Bush
:)
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I fail to see any proof in his statement, I don't think his intent was to provide any .
Of course we're a much better country than we were in the mid sixties, I can even eat in the same resturant as a white man now, or vote, or even protest if I so desire . Pornography has improved by leaps and bounds, allthough there was a concavity in the the eighties but the industry recovered quite well. No more compulsory christian prayer in public schools. Then they're is energy conversation, the gender wage gap.. well I can't really think of anything that has gotten worse .
Did american chicks even shave their pits back then ?
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liberals define "freedon of speech" as the "right" to disrupt someone else's speech
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Yeah Rip, and you can pin those crime rates, and the means to reduce them, on the failing drug war..
-SW
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Originally posted by midnight Target
From your article.... Darn that Bush
:)
Oh yes! I'm sure the criminals woke up and said "Hey, Bush is Pres, lets go commit more crimes!" LOL! :) Society is just a little more complicated than that, Reagan-supporter ;)
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True Rip, but I'm still waiting for you to tell me how we've been on a downhill slide since the 60's.
(This should be fun)
:cool:
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This article seems like a cheap knock off of an article that circulated some 3 years ago:
President Clinton was to give a speach at a college. The students were informed that anyone who turned down his unsolicited proposal would be expelled.
The first 4 students that Mr. Clinton propositioned turned him down and were removed by the police. After being separated from the crowd, they were told to go find a more apropriate school like Yale or something.
The president then happened upon a young curly haired Puerto Rican exchange student that, when propositioned replied "What's in it for me?". He seemed satisfied with the president's reply of "Beer, sex and a ride home." The Puerto Rican accepted the terms (though stating the ride home wasn't really needed) and the whole ordeal came to an end.
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Your freedom to protest is no more "free" than your right to free speech. You can, but if you don't go about it right it can cost ya. I don't really believe this even happened, however if it did... let me illustrate my point.
P.S. Notice my forethought in editing this poster. THIS little action will keep the HTC BB police from locking my account. However, I could have been obnoxious and risked banning. See? Hmmm?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
True Rip, but I'm still waiting for you to tell me how we've been on a downhill slide since the 60's.
(This should be fun)
:cool:
RAP!!! :D
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Originally posted by midnight Target
True Rip, but I'm still waiting for you to tell me how we've been on a downhill slide since the 60's.
(This should be fun)
:cool:
morally
If you can't see/feel that, you must be one of those leading the slide
I'd push it back to the 50's with the 80's turning the faucet wide open ... IMO
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Originally posted by Eagler
morally
If you can't see/feel that, you must be one of those leading the slide
I'd push it back to the 50's with the 80's turning the faucet wide open ... IMO
Sure, if by morally you mean racial segregation, sexism, McCarthyism, religious intorlerance and state censorship etcetera etc .
Yep society went down the crapper when men started letting their sideburns grow. Aint that right Edith .
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the only really huge decline (moraly) I see since the 50's-60's is most americans don't raise their own kids anymore.
we let a bunch of wacked out lesbian activists convince most women that their life had no value without a paycheck, and took a huge turn for the worse on that day.
so mothers drop their kids at daycare so they can go out and 'be somebody'. what a load of crap
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Good point capt. apathy, I agree, I used to see this a lot with military couples. Not sure how much it has to do with lesbian activists though .
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
the only really huge decline (moraly) I see since the 50's-60's is most americans don't raise their own kids anymore.
we let a bunch of wacked out lesbian activists convince most women that their life had no value without a paycheck, and took a huge turn for the worse on that day.
so mothers drop their kids at daycare so they can go out and 'be somebody'. what a load of crap
Now this is funny! Kids are important capt., however the women's movement didn't abandon the children. It gave families and women the option of how the children could be raised. It is entirely possible that the woman of the house might be a better wage earner. No one is saying the man can't stay home and watch the kids.
Freedom of choice means freedom of choice. It doesn't mean freedom from bad choices. Do you really want to legislate the choices people make in raising their children? Or do you want to eliminate the freedom of choice for some (women) altogether?
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'liberal p****s' are so glad to be led by such great warriors as
george 'daddy got me in the TANG' bush
and
dick 'i have other priorities than military service' cheney
liberals are so ashamed of these p****s
JFK - capt PT-109
George McGovern - 35 mission in B-24 over Germany
Max Cleland - body parts left in 'nam
Bob Kerry - body parts left in 'nam
John Kerry - multi-medals
dam them liberal p***s - how can they show their faces in public?
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Originally posted by KG45
'liberal p****s' are so glad to be led by such great warriors as
george 'daddy got me in the TANG' bush
and
dick 'i have other priorities than military service' cheney
liberals are so ashamed of these p****s
JFK - capt PT-109
George McGovern - 35 mission in B-24 over Germany
Max Cleland - body parts left in 'nam
Bob Kerry - body parts left in 'nam
John Kerry - multi-medals
dam them liberal p***s - how can they show their faces in public?
Bush Sr. (TBM pilot, WW2, shot down)
Dole (Wounded I believe)
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One of the most important mandates in recent history and it gets less coverage than a missing 14 year old :rolleyes:
In case you guys blinked during your local news and missed it:
For too long, the citizens of the Middle East have lived in the midst of death and fear. The hatred of a few holds the hopes of many hostage. The forces of extremism and terror are attempting to kill progress and peace by killing the innocent. And this casts a dark shadow over an entire region.
For the sake of all humanity, things must change in the Middle East.
It is untenable for Israeli citizens to live in terror. It is untenable for Palestinians to live in squalor and occupation. And the current situation offers no prospect that life will improve. Israeli citizens will continue to be victimized by terrorists, and so Israel will continue to defend herself, and the situation of the Palestinian people will grow more and more miserable.
My vision is two states, living side by side, in peace and security. There is simply no way to achieve that peace until all parties fight terror.
Yet at this critical moment, if all parties will break with the past and set out on a new path, we can overcome the darkness with the light of hope.
Peace requires a new and different Palestinian leadership, so that a Palestinian state can be born.
I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror. I call upon them to build a practicing democracy based on tolerance and liberty.
If the Palestinian people actively pursue these goals, America and the world will actively support their efforts. If the Palestinian people meet these goals, they will be able to reach agreement with Israel and Egypt and Jordan on security and other arrangements for independence.
here is the rest as it exceeded post size limits:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39207-2002Jun24.html
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it's not the freedom of choice that i have a problem with.
it's the way the activist types look down on a woman who says she's stays home and raises her kids. "you're 'just' a house wife" or "oh, so you don't work?"
and btw the freedom of choice still doesn't apply to men. even in this 'enlightened age' you're still a dead-beat if you're a man who isn't employed.
my wife stays home and raises our kids. she puts in a full day. and still gets. 'what do you do with all that time', or 'I couldn't stand to stay home and just do nothing'
women today are looked down upon as much if not more for not working outside the home as women where looked down upon in years passed where for working outside the home.
so now both parents working out side the home is the rule.
schools are trying to teach your kid right and wrong(and I doubt if they even have a clue themselves)
with both parents working you automaticly have almost twice as many people in the job market, which anyone who's had even the most basic economics class can tell you devalues the hours you do work. simple suply and demand
so you both work twice as hard for less money plus pay for daycare, while a stranger raises your kid, and if either one of you decides to stay home and handle it you're treated like a worthless slug.
parents have to schedual the 20-30 minutes they spend with their kids. and then when he joins the telaban they wonder where they went wrong.
that's all the rant I've got in me for now- Apathy out.
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yep, capt. apathy
all in the name of a few more $$$ and toys
history will show the direct correlation, too many defending their selfishness now to make your point
too many would rather dump the kids and run, to bad for the kid and our future generations as they will do as done unto them not knowing a difference
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Nostalgia is a terrible thing and shouldn't be trusted.
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Hear hear, Sandman.
Rip, I'm sure that liberalism has caused plenty of problems, but it's also done some damn good things for this country, many of which have been listed. Conservativism has also managed to fek things up pretty good. Liberalism is the force that puts reform in motion and gets our tulips off the ground. Conservatism keeps it in check and makes sure it doesn't go to far. Liberalism exerts the same force on reactionary, conservative movements. They're both necessary, as much as I dislike a lot of conservative thinking.
Brainless, knee-jerk liberals piss me off at least as much as the conservatives do. It comes down to being intelligent about what you stand for.
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ispar,
Reasonable, itelligent, well worded posts are not allowed! ;)
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Originally posted by KG45
'liberal p****s' are so glad to be led by such great warriors as
george 'daddy got me in the TANG' bush
and
dick 'i have other priorities than military service' cheney
liberals are so ashamed of these p****s
JFK - capt PT-109
George McGovern - 35 mission in B-24 over Germany
Max Cleland - body parts left in 'nam
Bob Kerry - body parts left in 'nam
John Kerry - multi-medals
dam them liberal p***s - how can they show their faces in public?
And I suppose these hero's would be standing in line to make tulips of themselves in protest of a war on terrorism (ROTFLMAO). Nice try, but Liberals and Democrats aren't what they used to be by any stretch of the imagination.
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You have to go back much further than the 50s or 60s to see where we made that wrong turn into a liberal path and screwed things up. My great great great grandfather claimed we screwed everything up in his time, the 1860s, when we freed the slaves. He hated Liberals.
His son claims we screwed things up in the 1870s-1890s when we quit slaughtering the Native Americans and put them on reservations. He hated liberals.
My great grandfather claims we screwed everything up when we gave women the right to vote and abolished child labor and sweat shops. He hated liberals.
His son, my grandfather, claims we screwed everything up when we gave African Americans the right to use the same drinking fountains and the same Universities us whites do. He hated liberals.
My father blamed this whole sorry-ass state of affairs our great nation has come to on the anti Viet Nam protesters and non- European (read White) immigration... He also hates liberals.
Me? I'm liberal. I'm proud to feel an affinity for my fellow liberal/activists who have accomplished so very much for social equality and basic human rights in America. Thank God liberal thinkers were able to convince America women deserved the right to vote. Thank God liberals managed to convince Congress children belonged in school- even the children of immigrants- rather than working 12 hour days in a sweat shop. Thank God liberals fought for the abolishment of the "poll tax" that had denied the vote to African Americans. Thank God for every labor union for their efforts in slowing the erosion of our middle class.
And thank God for the liberals who showed us the fallacy of Viet Nam.
It's easy to be a conservative. All you have to do is maintain the status quo, never change anything unless you want to change it back to the way it used to be, and declare all social progress finally completed.
It's much tougher to be a liberal. It requires you to present revolutionary ideas that oftentimes are at odds with the powers that be. You will be personally attacked and your ideas will be ridiculed as preposterous. Case in point? Governor Moonbeam. Do you know how Jerry Brown got that nickname? Because he commented that we would be able to to put satellites into orbit that could beam audio and video signals from point A to point B.
See what I mean?
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Elf
If your going to start protesting the war on terrorism... please, please... refer to my posted poster :) And no, it's not so easy to be conservative. I don't like some of the things liberals try to shove down my throat, mostly in the form of the Democratic Party. To save a good bashing by the militant left, I'll leave you to guess what those things may be, however... I guess my point is the hard liners. I prefer not to stomach or approve of some of the petty garbage the liberal left throw at me. There's plenty of things I don't like about the conservative right (Generally Republican) too, just not nearly as much. Therefore, I choose and reserve the right to lean right, not left. ...but please, liberals and Democrats didn't build this country alone.
Abraham Lincoln was a REPUBLICAN!!
(OH THE HUMANITY!! gasp, horror!!) :D
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Back to the original topic Sandman posted. Did the students have a first amendment right to protest at the graduation commencement ceremony?
What comes to mind for me is they didn't, due to the invitational nature of the ceremony, i.e. invitations were sent out by the graduates for guests to attend, making it an assembly of like-minded people...which is protected by the constitution.
Regarding freedom of speech, this is not mentioned in the first amendment...freedom of the press is specifically mentioned. And also the press has responsibilities and is accountable for what it prints. If you don't like or agree with the editorials, you can write a letter to the editor. You sign your name to it and take responsibility for what you write. In this way, you're excercising your freedom of speech through freedom of the press.
Protesting, picketing and demonstrating are legal devices, providing all the proper request forms are filled out and permits obtained. This is to help insure there is adequate fire and police protection on the scene. I'm sure this has to do with city codes, etc...
Taking all this into consideration, I don't equate these students' rights with what they were planning on doing at the ceremony, and, in my opinion, the university should be applauded for standing up for the constitutional rights of the assemblage by removing potential troublemakers.
Les