Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Obear1971 on June 25, 2002, 04:07:36 AM
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Aircraft Strength and Losses
British Air Force Strength During the Battle of Britain
Number of immediately available fighters, according to "The Battle of Britain" by Peter G. Cooksley (Ian Allan Ltd., 1990)
Hurricanes Spitfires
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21 August 615 326
30 August 580 287
8 September 530 275
15 September 472 256
2 October 482 281
18 October 512 285
Losses in the Battle of Britain
July 1940
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R.A.F. Fighter Command
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Hurricane 33 destroyed, 17 damaged
23 killed, 0 missing, 11 wounded
Spitfire 34 destroyed, 24 damaged
25 killed, 0 missing, 9 wounded
Blenheim 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
9 killed, 0 missing, 1 wounded
Defiant 6 destroyed, 1 damaged
10 killed, 0 missing, 2 wounded
TOTAL: 77 destroyed, 43 damaged
67 killed, 0 missing, 23 wounded
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Luftwaffe
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Dornier Do 17 39 destroyed, 13 damaged
30 killed, 74 missing, 19 wounded
Junkers Ju 87 13 destroyed, 11 damaged
10 killed, 12 missing, 3 wounded
Junkers Ju 88 39 destroyed, 11 damaged
52 killed, 67 missing, 11 wounded
Heinkel He 111 32 destroyed, 3 damaged
52 killed, 85 missing, 6 wounded
Messerschmitt Bf 109 48 destroyed, 14 damaged
17 killed, 14 missing, 13 wounded
Messerschmitt Bf 110 18 destroyed, 4 damaged
13 killed, 17 missing, 2 wounded
Other 27 destroyed, 1 damaged
19 killed, 33 missing, 15 wounded
TOTAL: 216 destroyed, 57 damaged
193 killed, 302 missing, 69 wounded
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August 1940
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R.A.F. Fighter Command
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Hurricane 211 destroyed, 44 damaged
85 killed, 1 missing, 68 wounded
Spitfire 113 destroyed, 40 damaged
41 killed, 3 missing, 38 wounded
Blenheim 13 destroyed, 10 damaged
6 killed, 3 missing, 0 wounded
Defiant 7 destroyed, 3 damaged
7 killed, ? missing, 4 wounded
Beaufighter 0 destroyed, 1 damaged
0 killed, 0 missing, 0 wounded
TOTAL: 344 destroyed, 98 damaged
139 killed, 7 missing, 110 wounded
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Luftwaffe
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Dornier Do 17 71 destroyed, 30 damaged
70 killed, 129 missing, 57 wounded
Junkers Ju 87 57 destroyed, 16 damaged
35 killed, 58 missing, 19 wounded
Junkers Ju 88 89 destroyed, 32 damaged
94 killed, 182 missing, 19 wounded
Heinkel He 111 89 destroyed, 15 damaged
113 killed, 204 missing, 35 wounded
Messerschmitt Bf 109 217 destroyed, 45 damaged
54 killed, 91 missing, 39 wounded
Messerschmitt Bf 110 119 destroyed, 40 damaged
80 killed, 113 missing, 22 wounded
Other 27 destroyed, 4 damaged
17 killed, 27 missing, 10 wounded
TOTAL: 669 destroyed, 182 damaged
463 killed, 804 missing, 201 wounded
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September/October 1940
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R.A.F. Fighter Command
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Hurricane 294 destroyed, 77 damaged
107 killed, 2 missing, 10 wounded
Spitfire 195 destroyed, 76 damaged
67 killed, 1 missing, ? wounded
Blenheim 12 destroyed, 4 damaged
26 killed, 3 missing, 55 wounded
TOTAL: 501 destroyed, 157 damaged
200 killed, 6 missing, 162 wounded
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Luftwaffe
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Dornier Do 17 82 destroyed, 36 damaged
147 killed, 94 missing, 50 wounded
Junkers Ju 87 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
1 killed, ? missing, ? wounded
Junkers Ju 88 175 destroyed, 85 damaged
251 killed, 227 missing, 74 wounded
Heinkel He 111 131 destroyed, 78 damaged
203 killed, 184 missing, 67 wounded
Messerschmitt Bf 109 326 destroyed, 96 damaged
77 killed, 159 missing, 36 wounded
Messerschmitt Bf 110 124 destroyed, 26 damaged
91 killed, 109 missing, 17 wounded
Other 43 destroyed, 7 damaged
23 killed, 35 missing, 16 wounded
TOTAL: 882 destroyed, 331 damaged
793 killed, 808 missing, 260 wounded
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Spitfire vs. Hurricane during the Battle of Britain
>From "Spitfire Special" by Ted Hooton:
Spitfire Hurricane Time
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Average Strength 295 461
11th Group 137 243
Average Strength 38% 62% July 1 -- September 30
German shot down 43% 57% July 1 -- September 30
Bf 109 shot down 49% (of all lost) July -- August
Bf 109 shot down 54% (of all lost) September
Combat losses 39% 61%
Accident rate 7% 7%
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Spitfire vs. Bf 109 : 219 to 180 lost.
Hurricane vs. Bf 109 : 272 to 153 lost.
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British Air Force losses during WWII
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B. C. A.C.C. F.C. T.A.F. C.C.
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1939 40 3 | 288
1940 509 1186 |
1941 985 651 233
1942 1543 688 302
1943 2474 569 177 279
1944 2904 397 1305 305
1945 708 64 633 132
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Total 9163 70 3558 2115 1579
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Abbreviations: B.C. Bomber Command; A.C.C. Army Co-operation Command;
F.C. Fighter Command; T.A.F. 2nd Tactical Air Force; C.C. Coastal
Command. Numbers include aircraft that returned to base but were
not repairable. Source: Jane's 45-46.
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Finnish Air Force Strength, november 1939
Fokker C.X 29
Fokker C.V 7
Fieseler Fi.156 Storch 2
Blackburn Ripon 8
Junkers K.43 7
VL Saaski 3
VL Kotka 1
Fokker D.XXI 36
De Havilland Moth 3
Bristol Bulldog 10
Bristol Blenheim 16
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Air Force Strengths on 10 May 1940
Belgium
Fairey Fox 98
Renard R 31 21
Gloster Gladiator 15
Hawker Hurricane 11
Fiat C.R.42 23
Fairey Battle 14
The Netherlands
Fokker C.X 11
Fokker T.V 9
Fokker D.XXI 28
Fokker G.I 23
Koolhoven F.K.51 16
Douglas DB-8A 11
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If I remember right was it that if germans would have done 1 air attack more vs England, RAF would have been destroyed but Göring stopped attacks because high losses.
I maybe wrong but thats how I remember it.
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For a country who attacked Russia we sure had small airforces ;)
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<<>>
That is not what I have read. Germany never came close to wiping out Fighter Command, which would have been the first step in winning the battle. It was a tough fight for both sides, but Fighter Command remained effective throughout.
Prior to the battle, a German LW general (I forget who) calculated that they would need to attain a 5:1 K/D over the RAF in order to achieve their goals, something they had never done before, not even in Poland or France. The LW ended up losing more planes to accidents than they had expected to lose in combat for the whole battle.
All this from : Stephen Bungay, "The Most Dangerous Enemy - A History of the Battle of Britain"
ra
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These numbers are missleading when taken out of the context of the battle's strategy and the technology employed at the time. There are some very important facts which are the reason for why the RAF was so successful - and it was not due to better pilots or better planes. Many of the LW pilots were seasoned vets from the Spanish civil war.
RAF had very good military intellegence and RADAR.
This allowed the RAF to choose their air combat battles effectively.
Early on, fighter command chose to engage only bombers and ignore fighter to fighter battles as much as possible.
RADAR and MI allowed the RAF to know where the bombers were, their altitude, aproximate numbers, how long they would be in route, and where they were going to attack. So the RAF could effective deploy and intercept and did not have to constantly fly BARCAPS and sweeps. They could sortie a consentrated force from several fields and vector directly to the most critical enemy bomber formations.
After crossing the English channel the LW fighters had little fuel, only enough for about 10 to 15 minutes over southern England for dogfights - so they could not effectively sweep. In fact after a certain point, they could not escort the bombers at all.
The bombers had to rely upon their speed and guns for defense - which did not help them much.
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I think the problem was that if they continued to bomb airbases in another week or 2 they'd of run out of pilots.
Trained pilots were in short supply, and it takes time to train a pilot properly.
AC Numbers while low at one point were never as close to low as the LW needed to invade.
Basicly, they never had a chance to invade.
Once frustrated with Englands tough nut to crack Hitler turned East to mother russia. This saved the world by giving the USA time to gear up & mobilize. Without Russia mauling the german army's there would have been no Normandy invasion.
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Actually fighter comand was being hit hard, the german airforce at the start of the BOB concentrated there bombing on the RAF airfileds, this had a HUGE effect on the ability to wage air war for the RAF.
They then changed there tactics and decided to bomb London instead, thinking that it would break the will of the people if there capital city was bombed flat.
This gave the RAF time to re-build there depleated airforce. and tired pilots
This decision was a huge factor in the outcome of the war.
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For every day of the Battle of Britian. the RAF had more fighters then they had the day befor..and every day they had more then twice as many pilots as they had fighters..
The LW never even came close to winning that battle. Not on any given day.
The British had focused thier empire on preparing to defend thier island from the sea and air..the germans had never given thought to the opposite.
The LW got thier butts handed to them in the BOB.
Read Chaper one of Brute Force by John Ellis.
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hmm got my info from a visit to the wwii warbunkers in london, were churchill etc went dureing the raids, though that was about as good a sourse of info your EVER going to get
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There's a good article on logistics during the BoB in one of the RAF airpower journals at http://www.raf.mod.uk/airpower/doctrine
It's in the Winter 2000 edition
Basically, the only period when the Luftwaffe put real pressure on the RAF, late August/ early September, they did so by flying an unsustainable sortie rate.
The RAF could not continue to fight at that rate, but the Luftwaffe could afford it even less. Losses for the Luftwaffe fighters were high, replacements low, and serviceability fell. By the endof the first week in September, it was the Luftwaffe that needed the break provided by attacks on London, far more so than the RAF.
Supply of aircraft was never an issue for the RAF, so much so that front line strength never fell, and reserves of Hurricanes and Spits in storage were never totally depleted. In contrast, the Luftwaffe by September had less fron line strength, and less pilots, than when they started the Battle.
By early September, the RAF had more fighters in the front line than the Luftwaffe, who had seen their strength fall from about 900 109s at the start, to around 650 operational 109s. If you take out unserviceable aircraft, the Luftwaffe had even less fighters ready for operations.
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Uhhhh... There is one thing missing here... It might not have had that big of an effect overall... but there were American pilots there too. Too many people think of the BoB as a purely British effort, American boys lost their lives too. Just thought I would make that reminder. And from what I've read, it was only a test to see how Britain would/could respond. Not to mention keeping them busy while other efforts were made.
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Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colourful rag is unfurled
Neil Peart
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another factor was where a/c and pilot losses occured.
RAF was on the defensive, fighting over england. if a RAF plane was shot down, but the pilot bailed, he was potentialy available to fight again soon. but a LW pilot lost over the UK was out of the war for good. during the BoB, aircraft shortage for the RAF was never critical, but pilots were in short supply.
Fighter Command was pushed close to the brink, but bad tactics on the part of the LW, including bombing AFs that weren't FC and not conducting follow up raids on AFs, allowed the FC the escape a real crippling blow.
also, the LW never really concentrated on the UK. hitler was way more interested in invading russia.
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Wildblue, there were only a handful of US pilots in the BoB. You shouldn't mistake Hollywood movies like Pearl Harbor for history.
ra
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Originally posted by ra
You shouldn't mistake Hollywood movies like Pearl Harbor for history.
Wait a sec... are you saying that toejam was FAKE? I refuse to believe that Jerry Bruckheimer would lie to me!