Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: narsus on June 26, 2002, 07:28:29 AM
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Giving this a good deal of thought, I am one of those who think marajuana (sp?) should be legalized, havent had a joint in about 7 years or so, but I digress. We spend millions and millions on trying to catch the ones running the drugs. Where the real problem is the ones using the drugs. What if we put more money into rehab programs and fine the users of drugs.
Now when I say fine I dont mean a $500 slap on the wrist I mean like a $3000 punch in the stomach for the first offense can even throw community service somewhere in there. No jail time needed just make it really stinking expensive on the user. Granted this wouldnt stop the hard core addicts that is what improving rehab is for, but I believe it would stop a good deal of the casual users.
Well I know this isn't a perfect solution, it's better than what we are doing now.
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i believe they need to work more on stoping drugs like cocaine and meth, heroin, and the drugs that kill people. even alcohol IMO is more dangerous than marijuana.
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hmmm, talk about reverse discrimination :)
so if you can afford it you get a fine, if not you get sent to rehab on the tax payers/"causal" drug user back??
Han, Same crime should = same sentence
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Either way you dice it Eagler, it's no different than what is currently going on.
If you can afford to pay court costs, ASAP (Alchohol Safety Action Program- but it is a class that both DUI,DWI and possession charges go to), and do the community service... you'll get off fairly easily... compared to if you can't, that just opens up a whole can of worms. Chances are they are gonna throw ya in the jail for 6 months.
-SW
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tobacco and alcohol kill more than 400k a year(give or take a k) Doesnt that tell you something about people and government.
hardcase
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Originally posted by hardcase
tobacco and alcohol kill more than 400k a year(give or take a k) Doesnt that tell you something about people and government.
hardcase
I'm trying to count how many people have died from marijuana, but I can't count that low :rolleyes: But there are too many people that would rather control somebody elses life to set right the hypocracy in the alcohol/drug laws.
I wonder how many harden criminals were/are created in prison because a guy that liked to get high is sent there with TRUE criminals and has to learn their ways just to survive in prison. Then he gets out to find that because he's been to prison he can't get a good job. For pot? :confused: Heroin or Cocaine or Meth I can understand because they kill people and they ruin lives and people do commit crimes to get their "fix" but pot?:confused:
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I saw on the side of a DC metro bus yesterday, something quite disturbing.
There was something like 700K marijuana convictions (ie: in jail) in the year 2000...
Underneath that it had another statistic.. I don't remember if it was simply crime related arrests or what.. but below that, it said, "Where do you put us all?"
-SW
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Comparing problems due to legal drugs vs problems due to illicit drugs is impossible. Of course there are more problems occuring from the legal drugs, because most of us limit to the ones allowed by law.
If you're going to sit there and say that filtered cigarettes are more harmfull than rolled joints then, well, your quote would be a pretty good example of marijuana damage.
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Depends on what your definition of "filtered" is Fatty...
I guess by filtered you mean the butt, well if it's a menthol that argument gets thrown right out the window. Care for some fiberglass in your lungs sir?
And does it really matter what filter they throw on the end of those things? Not when they are throwing more garbage into the cigarette themselves. Smokin' a tobacky cigarette using no filter with tobacky you grew yourself does far less damage than a filtered Camel, Marlboro Red, etc, cigarette.
When there was a prohibition against alcohol in this country, guess what went up? Alcohol consumption AND crime rates.
-SW
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Already have a bit of fiberglass in my lungs, thanks. Everyone does.
I'm indifferent to the legalization of marijuana (I would actually prefer it to the silly backdoor medical route tried over the last 10 years), I just get tired of the arguments that this stuff you're holding deeper in your lungs as long as possible is somehow a healthy alternative to cigarettes.
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There's a war on drugs?
Masher
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We spend millions and millions on trying to catch the ones running the drugs
This version of the war is more profitable
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Fatty, I dunno.. legalization, decriminilization. One means they sell it like tobacky/alcohol... one means you aren't a criminal if you get caught with it/doing it.
One guarantees it can be taxed, sold, and possibly monitored better. The other guarantees the government still doesn't lose, and the tax payers win. The people caught pay the fines, the tax payers don't gotta pay for their bellybutton taken up space in jail.
Do you believe it's a jailable offense?
Is marijuana a safe alternative to cigarettes? No, is anyone arguing that? I dunno, if they are, they are dumb as rocks. However, is it just as damaging as cigarrettes? Yup. Is it moreso? No, unless you smoke marijuana like you smoke cigarrettes. Would you smoke 20 joints in a day? No, but I know several people who smoke several packs of smokes in a day.
Does it damage your body like alcohol? No... they are both a drug that over a long period of use will naturally have negative repurcussions on your health. Alcohol is just an all around kick in the ass-> liver, kidneys, skin, brain, blood, heart, and several other organs get damaged. Of course, I'm not trying to do the compare list to say "oh well this isn't as bad".. they are both just as bad... but one you can do when you hit 21.
If it were to become a government regulated substance, it would become like alcohol is... drunk drivers are just as much a threat as stoned drivers who are just as much a threat as someone all doped up on pain killers or cold/flu medicine.
-SW
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Originally posted by Fatty
I just get tired of the arguments that this stuff you're holding deeper in your lungs as long as possible is somehow a healthy alternative to cigarettes.
Yes you are right that is a silly argument. I was told in health :D propoganda :D class that smoking one joint is the equivilent to a whole pack of cigarettes. Is it true? I have no idea. It makes sense, but it doesn't have all the additives that cigarettes have so maybe it's not true, I don't know.
I do know one thing. I get more benefit from pot than I do my pack of winstons. When I smoke a cigarette I feal nothing, other than filling that empty hole in my chest that MUST be filled or it leads to anxiety attacks (nic fits). I don't get that with pot. I mean I get in a bad mood for a coule of days if I run out, but nothing like if I run out of cigs. After a couple of days w/ no reef Im ok and have forgotten about it. HAHAHAH I just think about quiting cigarettes and I end up with a nic fit.
It all comes down to hipocracy, too many laws and idiots in charge in washington/state capitols. Liberty? Freedom? heh what are those?
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AK and others
As I said jail time just wastes the tax payers money fines could pay for that, and community service is well a community service. As I said not a perfect plan, as far as things being bad for you the list doesn't just include alcohol, cigarrettes and drugs. Hell supposedly a glass of wine a day is good for you.
I don't know where to draw the line, I smoked pot for a semester in college that was about it, worse thing i had was the munchies.
The difficulty truely is where do we draw the line, hell sweet & low causes cancer in lab animals. It would be great if people would just be more responsible, but that isn't going to happen.
As some of you have commented the current "war" on drugs isn't what i would call effective. Something else should be done, or does it.
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A glass of wine is good for the heart, but it still has to be converted to alcohol somewhere..... and filtered from your blood somewhere.
And how many people have just A glass of wine?
-SW
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Obviously the recreational user could not go through a pack of joints like a pack of cigarettes, but habitual users absolutely. Take away the illegality of possession and I'd fully expect to see people working their way thru packs. I don't even have a problem with that though, until it gets to a situation like tobacco where the users health problems become a drain on resources. Are the enforcement costs greater than the potential health care costs likely from wider usage?
As far as jailable see previous. I've no problem with the current status, but I'd be equally ambivalent to completely legalizing it (regulated substance, obviously). If it were on a referendum I'd probably flip a coin to vote or completely abstain.
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I usually have just A beer when I have some. And that's not too often either.
Where's Swoop? He's living in Holland right now. Don't they have marijuana legalized over there? How is that working out?
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Why would I care how many adults in USA kill themselves every year with tobacco, alcohol and drugs or junk food? Or for that matter choose to end their germ line by not procreating which is more permanent and fundamental then mere individual death?
In my view the nature of those people is the cause of the phenomenon (I would not even call it a problem as that may seem judgemental), so denied one way of terminating themselves they would just find another.
As for the children affected, I do not see why I should worry about them more then their own parents.
Legalising drugs would make my job as a parent much easier in protecting my children. Yes, the cheap pure drugs would be sold in drugstores and there would be ways for determined children to get them through adults - like they get beer now.
At the same time my children will not be subject of constant personal attention of highly-motivated personally-interested persuasive and talented pushers backed by multi-bilion dollar industry that does not have to comply with any laws and regulations on advertising, quality etc.
I would also be less at risk of being robbed by some drug addict in need of money to support expensive habit.
Also most of bad guys out there in the world - guerillas, terrorists, etc. would be deprived of major source of revenue.
Of course if steel manufacturers and steel workers can donate respectively money and votes to keep foreign steel out of the country to maintain their profits and redundant jobs, it is only natural that drug lords and millions of people working in drug enforcement and prison would donate money and votes to keep their profits and their jobs.
miko
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If you are curious as to what kind of drain habitual users would have on the workforce or economy... take a look at alcoholics. Are they a drain and in great numbers?
You can't compare marijuana to tobacco in terms of doing it. They simply do not compare. Comparing alcohol and marijuana is how it works. You don't get all retarded and toejam after smoking a pack of smokes.. you smoke a "pack" of joints, and you'll be so lit everyone around you will know your doped up out of your mind.
You'd get fired for being drunk on the job, why shouldn't you get fired for being blazed outta your mind on the job? EDIT: Well that's actually a companies choice to fire you for being drunk as it is right now. Alcohol isn't even on the list of substances to be tested for in the workforce. Sweet! I feel so safe knowing I can work around a bunch of drunks and there's no federal policy against it...
-SW
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The war on drugs has been declared for 30+ years. No end or victory in sight. President Bush compared the effort needed for the war on terrorism to the war on drugs. I hope he was wrong.
We should do a Vietnam on the WOD. Declare victory, legislate to put driving while stoned on the same level with DWI. Provide rehab at goverment expense. Prescribe additive drugs to the addicts. Kill anyone bringing blackmarket drugs into the US. Make it a capital offense to found in possesion on non-tax stamped drugs.
None of this will ever happen. What would we do with the out of work Drug Agents?
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If it were to become a government regulated substance, it would become like alcohol is... drunk drivers are just as much a threat as stoned drivers who are just as much a threat as someone all doped up on pain killers or cold/flu medicine.
-SW
Noway i drive normally in my car when stoned never had any accident in 8 years
the few little accident i made when i was really sober
There is a big difference between being stoned and drunk
When ur drunk u totaly have no control over ur body no coordination at all.
When ur used to marihuana it's not a problem i can still concentrate . I wont talk crap etc. etc.
Again Alcohol is a hard drugs and marihuana a soft drugs.
Come to holland and u know better
:cool:
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BUG, I'm not arguing here...
It's true, all drugs have a negative impairment on your reaction time and coordination. You ain't exactly top dawg in the driving skills when your high. It ain't as bad as drunk, because when you're drunk you do some crazy toejam like racing and just speeding around. You're more cautious when you are high, but there's still the chance you and your car could end up in a ditch somewhere... or worse, kill someone else.
-SW
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No stoned i can be even more concentrated.
Stoned i got my drivers licence
Stoned i got my diploma proces technic
when i'm drunk i don't feel coordinated it's a way other feeling
especially the next day
In the army i got best shooter in darkness from the whole platoon
by a little smoking from it
It was very helpfull when i started to learn drumming and listening to music
but i smoke average 3-4 a day so i'm used to it
it's like coffee
and i will never ditch my beetle
safety is important
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I'm not disagreeing that you can do it BUG. I would say, based on what I have done, that I can do what you do.... dunno if I could fire a high powered rifle at night at hit the target well, as I haven't done that yet... maybe in a year or two. ;) But driving, yeah man, that's easy as pie when your high. When you're drunk, you're weavin back n forth on the road.. just ain't no good for nobody.
But reaction time is a little slower when you are stoned as opposed to not. If you are a lil buzzed, then it ain't gonna be as bad.
-SW
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Ok someone who is using it only a few times a year better not drive.
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When you outlaw pot. Only outlaws will have pot.
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Guys, stop comparing it to alcohol and cigarettes.
If someone invented alcohol today, it would be so totally illegal. Class A drug. Same thing with cigarettes. The ONLY reason those things are legal now is because there would be a short and brutal civil war in any country trying to outlaw them.
That is the reason why alcohol is legal and drugs arent. Alcohol is more dangerous than "soft" drugs, but that is not the point. There is no line at alcohol saying everything less dangerous than this is ok.
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
BUG, I'm not arguing here...
It's true, all drugs have a negative impairment on your reaction time and coordination. You ain't exactly top dawg in the driving skills when your high. It ain't as bad as drunk, because when you're drunk you do some crazy toejam like racing and just speeding around. You're more cautious when you are high, but there's still the chance you and your car could end up in a ditch somewhere... or worse, kill someone else.
-SW
I've been pulled over for speeding 3 times in my driving life. I was sober each time. I've had 2 wrecks in my driving life, 2 months apart, one my fault the other not, I was sober both times. I've run one stop sign that I can recall in my driving life, I had drunk 4 beers at bowling and it was a stop sign that I stop at twice a day going to and from work. I got lucky because after I realized what I had done (about 10 seconds) I made a uturn to turn on the street I had just run the stop sign on (yeah I was supposed to take a left there :rolleyes:) When I got back to the stop sign there was a cop there. WHEW!!!!! >< that close to a dwi that I most defenately would have deserved. I stopped drinking at bowling after that. I've never been pulled over or had an accident while stoned.
Personal responsibility.........Person al responsibility.........Person al responsibility.........Person al responsibility.........Person al responsibility.........Person al responsibility.........
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another typical drug thread ... ZZZzzzz :rolleyes:
grow up and get sober or is it get sober and grow up :)
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Alcohol is a drug Hortlund.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Alcohol is a drug Hortlund.
-SW
Well gee...thanks for clearing that out SW
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So why can't I compare it to marijuana?
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
So why can't I compare it to marijuana?
-SW
Well, you can, but it would be like comparing marijuana to cocain. Both are drugs, but they "work" differently, they simulate in different ways. It would be pointless. The kind of "rush" you get from alcohol is totally different from whatever kind of rush the potheads get from their marijuana.
(I have never tried any drug (other than alcohol; Thank you SW), all this (alleged) knowledge comes from reading hundreds of police reports)
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They are both depressants.
Sure, they work in different ways... but not all that much different. One makes you a clumsy horny ass. The other makes you chilled out.
Neither are addictive.. EDIT: well unless you are an alcoholic.
Also, why do you call people who smoke marijuana potheads? Are you a drunk because you drink alcohol?
-SW
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Actually SW, marijuana is more dangerous than you might want to admit. (Alhough of the two, alcohol is the bigger killer)
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How so? I'm interested...
-SW
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IMO people who smoke marijuana are criminals (kinda obvious since it is agains the law).
Not only are they criminals, they are criminals involved in drug-related crimes (dunno exactly how to translate that).
As such, I have choosen the derogatory lable of "pothead" to describe a criminal individual involved in drug-related crimes.
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How are they in drug-related crimes if they grow their own, or buy from someone who grows their own?
Pothead is actually a term to describe a marijuana abuser, someone who smokes it daily.
-SW
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The "War on Drugs" will never end. There are too many people profitting on both side. Law enforcement agencies and corporations on one side and drug lords on the other.
The stupidity of these laws will never overcome the cash.
F.
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Speeders and internet cams that have nekid women too Hortland! Jail all them hippy law breakers.
You got a ugly bellybutton wife and a toejamty car?
Yup.
Burn one, you'd be WAAAYY less anal and annoying. I'd not even call the cops.
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Originally posted by Furious
The "War on Drugs" will never end. There are too many people profitting on both side. Law enforcement agencies and corporations on one side and drug lords on the other.
The stupidity of these laws will never overcome the cash.
F.
Law enforcement agencies profit?
Damn, I need to talk to the Chief. We're doin' somethin' wrong.
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I think I know what the problem is Apache, see, you're supposed to sell BACK the drugs you get off of the offenders... THAT's where the profits at man!
;)
j/k
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I think I know what the problem is Apache, see, you're supposed to sell BACK the drugs you get off of the offenders... THAT's where the profits at man!
;)
j/k
-SW
Well I'll be damned. Oh well, we're in the south. What can I say. :)
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In holland ur not a criminal
It's legal
:cool:
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The War on Drugs (WOD) has been declared for 30+ years. No end or victory in sight. What we should do is declare victory (Vietnam precedence applies) and move on to important things like passive prevention and education. We should work on the conditions that contribute to persons making bad choices.
Treat it as it was treated prior to the 1930's. A social illness and personal illness. Tax it and give it to those who are addicted. This would contribute to crime prevention. Have a heroin addiction, here is you fix. No need to pillage or kill for the next one. However, if you are found in possession of black market drugs, then you will be executed. If you deal in or facilitate black market drugs, you will be executed. No exceptions.
When President Bush compared the War on Terrorism to the WOD, I cringed. I hope we do better in the WOT than we have in the WOD.
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Don't bet on it. I don't see an end or victory in sight for the WOT either.
...then again... maybe there is an end in sight. Election.
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"The war on drugs is a war against personal freedom" -Maynard
-SW
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sandman, what does a hardon have to do with the WOT?
ohhh... you said ELECTION, not ERECTION! Been watching too much World Cup in Korea/Japan. My Rs and Ls all are backwards! :D
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http://www.drugpolicy.org/action/index.html
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Originally posted by Creamo
Speeders and internet cams that have nekid women too Hortland! Jail all them hippy law breakers.
You got a ugly bellybutton wife and a toejamty car?
Yup.
Burn one, you'd be WAAAYY less anal and annoying. I'd not even call the cops.
This is you brain on drugs...
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Apache,
just an example:
$1.275 Billion for a 21st Century Policing Initiative that will help communities hire, redeploy, and retain up to 50,0000 law enforcement officers to target crime and drug "hot spots". This initiative will also help equip officers with the latest crime-fighting technologies, and engage entire communities to work together to prevent and fight crime;
$22 Million Increase for the Drug Enforcement Agency, including $13 million to assist the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) with its efforts to automate and improve access to critical law enforcement and intelligence information, and $9 million to support investigations to dismantle drug trafficking organizations;
$50 Million Increase for the Southwest Border Patrol to help the INS deploy "force multiplying" technology, such as infrared and color cameras and ground sensors to aid Border Patrol enforcement and drug interdiction efforts;
$29 Million Increase for International Programs, including: the State Department's International Narcotics Law Enforcement Affairs' efforts in the Andean countries and Mexico, and to provide assistance to enhance multinational cooperation in our anti-drug efforts.
This doesn't include money from other sources such a property siezures, etc.
How many people does the DEA employ? Do you think they want to see an end to the "War on Drugs"? Hell no, they don't.
What about the companies selling them materials and equipment?
I have alot of respect for law enforcement. I just think we are wasting money and effort enforcing stupid laws in this case.
F.
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I would actually prefer it to the silly backdoor medical route tried over the last 10 years
Doing chemo right now, the non sedative anti nausea cost the hospital 24 dollars each. Sedative type, dont stop the nausea and you stil have no appetite. Since i went back to smoking dope, I eat, dont throw up,have no nausea, sleep well. If you never needed it for somee silly medical reason, consider yourself lucky. From those that do need it, ,it is far from silly.
By the way Hortland that makes me a criminal pothead.
I don't feel like a pothead.
hardcase
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Originally posted by hardcase
I would actually prefer it to the silly backdoor medical route tried over the last 10 years
Doing chemo right now, the non sedative anti nausea cost the hospital 24 dollars each. Sedative type, dont stop the nausea and you stil have no appetite. Since i went back to smoking dope, I eat, dont throw up,have no nausea, sleep well. If you never needed it for somee silly medical reason, consider yourself lucky. From those that do need it, ,it is far from silly.
By the way Hortland that makes me a criminal pothead.
I don't feel like a pothead.
hardcase
No hardcase, you should be able to get whatever eases your pain but can't compare your dope smoking to someone who does it just to get high - read: escape from reality
Personally, I think Dr's and their scripts (just wonder how many ppl are really straight) of "legal" meds are creating a world of zommies worse than any bunch of midnight munchie eating dopers ever could...
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escape from reality
If this is all thats required for something to be illegal, HTC better find another line of work.
SEA, Sim Enforcement Agency. The "WAR on SIMS".
YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO ESCAPE REALITY. IT IS THE LAW!!!
F.
If I remember my research right, the initial illegalization of marijuana was brought before congress by the nephew (?) of Mr. Dow, whose company had just developed a chemical for breaking dow the lignin (sp?) in wood products. Until that point, Hemp was much simpler to break down to create paper products, rope, etc. By demonizing the recreational use of marijuana, it was illegallized, thereby increasing the need form Mr. Dow's chemical product.
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*pfffffffffffffffsssshhhhtttt*
*cough*
ahhhhhh.
um, what were we talking about???
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puff puff give, puff puff give, dont be fuking up the rotation hangtime.:)
i'm saving one J for 1.10 release!!!! BRING IT ON
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Oh look that was my first post.. aint that sweet?:)
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I've gone into the details as to why all drugs should be legal many times, and wont do it agin now.
but I would like to say that not only should pot be legal, I'm compiling a list of guys for whom it should be manditory.
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I'm compiling a list of guys for whom it should be manditory.
will the list be sorted by need, or alphbetized?
;)
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by need, as in how high do I need them to get before I can stand to be around them.
the sad thing is that many of the guys who are against legalisation are on the manditory list
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I am doing my personal War on Drugs!!
Every time I am in possession of some quantity of marijuana, I burn it ASAP!!!!!
This is the way to fight the drug!!!
BURN IT!!!!
:D
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The USA didn't learn from the war on alcohol
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
by need, as in how high do I need them to get before I can stand to be around them.
So if I have understood this correct, you feel it is easier to socialize with drug abusers? Well, to each his own I suppose. Sometimes all the pressures of a normal social life can be too heavy huh? Better to just sit around high on pot with a dumb smile and escape from all the pressures of normal life.
Can you say pathetic?
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So if I have understood this correct, you feel it is easier to socialize with drug abusers? Well, to each his own I suppose. Sometimes all the pressures of a normal social life can be too heavy huh? Better to just sit around high on pot with a dumb smile and escape from all the pressures of normal life.
Can you say pathetic?
:rolleyes: Can you say normal?
Can you say Bar, Pub, Club, Cafe, Starbucks...etc etc?
All those places thrive on gathering drug abusers together in one place to sit around high with a dumb smile and escape from all the pressures of normal life. In fact a normal social life is to a great degree defined by taking drugs. Most people abuse drugs as part of their social lives... indeed if you don't drink alcohol or coffee/tea, chances are you're a bit of a social outcast.
I'm afraid the whole of human history is a story of drug peddling and drug abuse... coffee, tea, opium, hashish, cocaine, etc etc. indeed some of the weirder scientists posit that drugs are responsible for the very evolution of language, and therefore culture (and by extension whatever passes for your social life).
"You know, this is a very complicated case - lotta ins, lotta outs... err... you know... Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict... err... drug... ah... regimen to keep my mind, you know, err... limber."
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Hortlund, you need to work on your sarcasm-interpretation skills...
You sorta completly missed the point :)
Daff
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So if I have understood this correct, you feel it is easier to socialize with drug abusers?
no, not at all but certain 'personalitys' can deffinatly benifit from a little chemically induced rectal extraction.
btw you're moving up the list;)
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LOL well you know me and lists. So what would I have to do to top it?
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sorry man, but with some of the guys I've worked with over the years, you really don't have a shot at the top 10 unless I've met you personaly:D
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Damn...
What if I would do a JoeCrip on you and chase you around the MA with check-6 calls? Any hope for the top 15 at least?
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LOL. Gawd, that's funny Hort... :D
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LOL, that might work. probably honorable mention at least