Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Pooh21 on June 27, 2002, 05:47:04 AM
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I have been flying this thing lately, mostly to kill aircraft. Rather fun to get someone slow and then nail em with a 40mm. The last couple of days though I have been trying it out again against gvs. Going against panzers is fine 3 hits usually kills them, 2 will usually disable them. That is if the little .30 popgun on the top dont shred you. Flaks are the same 2-3 hits they go pop. What I dont get is the m3s and lvts ability to withstand damage from my hurris 40mm. Today as an m3 was just outside our town at 50 went in shot at d600 I got 2 distinct hit spites about 4 near misses, I pull up shred-crash-bang in tower. Later there was another m3 went down 1 hit pull up expecting him to blow. Nothing, but shred rip pop, there goes radiator. I dove on an lvt today but 3 hits on his top. Only result was his turret knocked out and engine. 2 seconds later I was back in the tower. This being said I think the guns on this thing are useless. Hard to hit with them, got to get in close, durng which the whole time those gvs MGs will shred you. About the only advantage this thing has over Il-2 is that its not as big of lalanikispit magnet. If we ever get a ju-87g or a Hs-129b3 about the only thing they would be good for is bait. The turret guns on the outside of the GVs are too durable and accurate, cannon shells and bullets going off and ricochetting off the turret top should at the very least be distracting to the gunner at best turn him into chunky salsa.
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Well, I think the damage model for GVs should be redone before any tank-killers like the Ju87G or Hs 129 are brought in.
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HTC hates the RAF, and that's why the Hurri2C is neutered. It's scandalous!
:)
No seriously here's a pretty good thread on the subject (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48482)
I too with the tankbuster planes were more usefull, but it looks like that would be a gameplay "concession" and I imagine there are as many people against it as there are for it. :confused: I guess I should just post and post about how HTC doesn't care, but that would be out of charactor for me. Instead I'll just point out what I want every frew months while making fun of others. I'm a jerk that way.
-Sikboy
[edit] Fixed broken link [edit]
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The best thing to do is use the Yak-9T. The cannon isn't as high of a caliber, but it kills gvs just the same, and it's a hell of a lot easier to aim.
Not only that, everyone secretly fears Yaks so they'll leave you alone. ;)
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i read a book by a USAAF 9th P-47 Jabo, in which he stated that they killed tanks w/ 0.50s by attacking at a low dove angle & ricocheting bullets off the road/ground to hit the armourless underside of the vehicle...bet that would be a 8i+(h & a half to program accuratly
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I have what is probably the same book, but the evidence is against this method of attack being effective.
Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/
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I have seen film of p51s and p47s bouncing bullets off roads and killing tanks. I have also seen interviews of p47 pilots talking about this very tactic and how effective it was.
The underside of tanks are not armored and 50 cals will penatrate
killing the crew and disabling the tank. Would they explode like they do in the game of coarse not this is a game after all.
A dead crew and shot up engine and other vitals still equal a dead tank whether it blows up in a large fireball or not.
Oh and the pilots also said this was the only way to attack tanks not APC's and FP's the bullets would simply bounce off the top armor of tanks.
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The undersides of PnZ IVs had 30mm of armor. A .50 cal striking it at 90 degrees might, maybe, get through. A deformed .50 round that has lost much of its energy by bouncing off of the road and is striking at an angle of 15-20 degrees doesn't have any chance whatsoever of piercing the belly armor.
Just because the P-47 and P-51 pilots thought they were killing the tanks doesn't mean they were.
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Oh man...not the .50 cal -bouncers again.
IT CANT BE DONE
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Did the 40mm's on the hurri really fire alternatingly . That's prolly biggest reason that the flakyak is superior to it . The recoil of those alternating 40mm's is like taking a one, two from a prize fighter; really screws up your aim . With the flakyak you can down bombers from up to 1700 meters behind them, I made a special gunsight for just this purpose, no hope of doing that with the hurri . Additionally you can fire off a couple of rounds at a gv and pull out before you are bellow 1000 meters, convergence makes this very difficult with the hurri .
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Originally posted by Samm
Did the 40mm's on the hurri really fire alternatingly .
I don't believe so. The rate of fire was slow (90-100 rpm) and the recoil pushed the nose of the plane down, so the pilots used to just stab the button for each pair of shots, effectively firing the guns semi-auto. They would ease up the nose as they fired to counteract the recoil. They would start firing at about 900m and get in up to four pairs of shots before pulling out to avoid hitting the target - the final shots being at around 150m, at VERY low level.
Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/
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Originally posted by icemaw
I have seen film of p51s and p47s bouncing bullets off roads and killing tanks. I have also seen interviews of p47 pilots talking about this very tactic and how effective it was.
The underside of tanks are not armored and 50 cals will penatrate
killing the crew and disabling the tank.
I guess this was the same P51 "tankbuster" from Saving Private Ryan?:rolleyes:
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Anyone know if Denys "Kill 'em" Gillam is still around - He is probably as much an authority on the IId as anyone. Here is what he said about it in Douglas Bader's book "It was deadly accurate, and we vied with each other to achieve the best results...The recoil from theses large-caliber cannons was tremendous and reduced the speed by 40 to 50 miles per hour".
I would think that the only way the cannon could be accurate & have that kind of recoil would be if they fired concurrently (not to mention the types of spins you would get into if one wing suddenly dropped 50 MPH).
He goes on to state that the Hurricane did a great job at absorbing punishment, himself taking large calliber directs hits more than once and flying home
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Been driving a panzer the last 3 days and what amazes,baffles, and astounds me is the pure A-10ish tank busting ability of the danged spitfire! 1 pass I lose my turret, top gun,engine, 1 track, and maybe my hullgun:eek: !!!
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Pooh...
The spitfire has Hispanos, undeniably the best gun for GV killing in the game!!
SKurj
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More gv busting updates. Was flying my 109G-10 tonight with just one 30mm went diving on an m-16 to distract him, figured what the hey, fired off a 3 round burst in his direction to get his attention as I pulled up. I saw no hit sprites, closest one landed maybe 5 ft away. I roll around, Boom! System you killed mudmonkey.
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Originally posted by whgates3
Anyone know if Denys "Kill 'em" Gillam is still around - He is probably as much an authority on the IId as anyone. Here is what he said about it in Douglas Bader's book "It was deadly accurate, and we vied with each other to achieve the best results...The recoil from theses large-caliber cannons was tremendous and reduced the speed by 40 to 50 miles per hour".
I would think that the only way the cannon could be accurate & have that kind of recoil would be if they fired concurrently (not to mention the types of spins you would get into if one wing suddenly dropped 50 MPH).
He goes on to state that the Hurricane did a great job at absorbing punishment, himself taking large calliber directs hits more than once and flying home
Hmm. Let's do some simple maths. The 40mm fired a 2.5lb shot at 2,000 fps - so two together fired 5lb at 2,000 fps. Multiply those figures together to get a momentum index and you score 10,000 (the units of measurement don't matter as long as they're consistent). Then consider that the Hurri IID weighed around 7,000 lb. Divide that into your 10,000 and you get 1.42 feet per second recoil force on the Hurri. Consider that at an attack speed of 250 mph, the Hurri is travelling at 370 feet per second and you will see that knocking 1.42 fps from 370 won't make much difference. To put it another way, multiplying the weight by the speed of the Hurri (in fps) gives you a momentum factor of 2.5 million - that's 250 times more than the recoil. A series of four pairs of shots might knock up to 10mph from the speed, and that's on the generous side.
The Hurri's biggest vulnerability was to flak, as it couldn't carry the armour plate required to give it protection.
Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/
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Ja, that phyisics makes a lot of sense, except that the gun is not 100% efficient, so maybe make it 12 MPH. Gillam probably didn't earn his deadly reputation by keeping his eye on the air speed indicator when he was firing his guns. Bet it feels like 50 mph worth of recoil though, especially when firing in a dive.