Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: gofaster on June 28, 2002, 09:24:21 AM
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Less than 700 manufactured, but in service from 1940 to 1945. Initial opponents were Italian FIAT biplanes and German Me-109Es until French collapse. Just before surrender of France, they were flown across the Med into Africa where the Vichy French puppet government used them against RAF Hurricanes. Armed with a single cannon in the nose and four 7.9mm machine guns in the wings, they were thought to be slower than the Me-109E, but more maneuverable and better gunned.
We should have some French representation, and the Dewoitine D 520 is considered to be the best French plane of WW2.
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Perk it!
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Some were used by the FAF, and the Russians had a couple they re-engined.
Yes, it should be created for a Battle of France scenario.
-SW
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I'm sorry sw but I think you confused the D520 and the MS406.
The finns put russian engine on the MS406
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Ah yes, you're right. Although the tail does look the same.
Hmmm... add 'em both then!
:)
-SW
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Did it see combat?
French pilots remember... rruunnnaawayyyyy
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Originally posted by straffo
I'm sorry sw but I think you confused the D520 and the MS406.
The finns put russian engine on the MS406
Yes, here is the MS406 in Finnish markings, used in the Winter War 1941-1944. Finland only had 50 of them in total. Most of the MS406 saw service in France (as brief as the invasion was - they threw cows at the Germans and then run awaaaaayyyy!).
Standard MS406 armament was a 20mm cannon with two 7.5mm machine guns, so I would think the D520 would be preferred by most pilots in AH because of the better gun lethality for the D520.
If the Brewster Buffalo is ever introduced in Finland colors, then the MS406 could be introduced in French colors, so that Finland has 2 planes (109G2 and Buffalo) and France would have 2 planes (D520 and MS406). Make sense?
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Concerning the D520/MS406 it won't work in the MA (to many late war wonder ...
but it can be used in scenarii
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I'm sure the MS406 (or even 410, if it was produced in decent numbers) would be a fun ride in the MA... even with it's current state.
I know I'd fly it, but hell.. I PREFER early war planes to the uber- monsters.
-SW
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Dewoitine D.520 -> Yes plz!
General data
Seats: 1
Date service: 2/1940
Performance
Engine: Hispano-Suiza12Y-45
Max. speed: 535 km/h
Power: 1x697 kW
Range: 890 km
Dimensions
Length: 8.60 m
Height: 2.57 m
Span: 10.20 m
Armament
Guns: 1x20mm HS-404, 4x7.5mm MAC34M39
(http://www.ottoweller.de/ah/DW-D520-1.jpg)
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How long was it in service, how much combat did it see and how many planes did it shoot down?
Westy
(not my 'yard stick' but I think it applies... ;) )
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<<>>
Much more than the Ta-152.
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More early war planes plz...
Breguet Bre 693 (234 produced)
Crew: two (Pilot and radio operator/rear gunner)
Max speed at sea level 360 kmh (224mph)
Max speed at 5000m (16,400ft) 495 kmh (308mph)
Climb to 4,000 m (13,100ft) 8min 30sec
Service ceiling 9,500m (31,200ft)
Range 1,450km (901mi)
Armament
20mm Hispano-Suiza Cannon (60rds+2x15 or 2x30rds, nose)
2 x 7.5mm Darne MGs (500 rds, nose)
7.5mm Darne MG (6x100 rds, rear cockpit)
7.5mm Darne MG (500 rds, ventral position)
2 x 7.5mm Darne MGs (engine nacelle firing aft)
Bobmload
8x50kg (8x110lb) bombs
Bloch MB.152 (699 produced)
Max speed 320mph (515kmh) at 13,125ft (4000m)
max cruising speed 280mph (450kmh)
service ceiling 32,810ft (10,000m)
range 373miles (600km)
Armamet
two 20mm Hispano 404 cannon (60 rounds each)
two 7.5mm MGs (500 rounds each)
OR
four 7.5mm MGs
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In service early 1940.
Initially 101 were delivered in May 1940. Some Sqn credits include: GC I/3, GC II/3, GC III/3, III/6 and III/7 who were credited with 147 kills, losing 85 fighters and 44 pilots. (pre-1942)
740 total produced, of which 411 were seized by the LW in 1942, some of which were passed to Italy, Romania and Bulgaria. In 1944, C I/8 was reformed and painting over German insignia, they fought against the last remaining German pockets in Southern France.
source - Illustrated Directory of Fighting Aircraft - Bill Gunston.
pp 10, 11.
Hope this helps,
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I think the D520 would match well against the other early-war types being introduced, and some that we already have such as the Macchi fighters and the early Spitfire and Seafire planes. Its biggest contribution would be in scenarios - Dunkirk comes to mind, along with some of the Africa campaigns and, of course, the Finnish wars.
I'd like to see the D205, the MS406, the Japanese Hayate fighter, and the Stuka added to the plane list (keeping with the tradition of adding planes 4 at a time).
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i'd rather see some planes of actual use instead of these hanger queens.
Some Russian or Japanese Iron for example.
How about improving some things? Like Correct loadouts for the 190F8?
How about giving the Germans a decent Buff? He-177 would fit that role.
People say it's not about "countries" because everyone has acces to the same plane. Not true, I don't like to fly anything non-German.
There are many late war and mid war planes that should be added before some hanger queens that will rarly be used in the MA.
Just my $0.02
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Originally posted by Soviet
People say it's not about "countries" because everyone has acces to the same plane. Not true
So where does that leave the French?
-Sikboy
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I'm guessing Soviet would rather see a French-marked P-63 than a D.520 :)
J_A_B
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Pffftttt that's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard Soviet.
-SW
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Hmmmm, if its an early war plane, and saw combat, Add it! :D
also would like to see:
"Brewster Buffalo",
B-25,
I-16,
"109T"
hs-123,
I-153,
Ba.65,
Early war italian bomber (for a malta scenario),
Gloster Gladiator,
CR42,
Swordfish.
And anymore early war planes that could help balance em!
Gloster Gladiator, CR42 & an early war italian bomber are on top of my list :)
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Originally posted by straffo
Concerning the D520/MS406 it won't work in the MA (to many late war wonder ...
but it can be used in scenarii
slaps straffo over the head and points him to a hurricane
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what i meant is The Germans need some stuff fixed "Like the damn 190F8 ARMORMENT!!!!!"
and also, i'm sick of these early war hanger queens. I want some nice mid-late war planes. Like the Tu-2S, He-177, Me-410, Il-2M3 with 2 37mm cannons. Yak-3 and Yak-3 with VK-107A engine.
I love scenarios as much as anyone but these planes really don't have much of a place in the MA. The only way Early war planes would get usage would be a rolling plane set. I'd say have it set so the time of the war changes every 20 hours.
A lot of things need fixing however, like new art for some planes (P-51, and B-17 are in need of a face lift and it would be nice for some new 190 and 109 art too). Bugs need to be corrected (like for instance if you select 2 250kg bombsi n the bf110g2 you get 2 500kg bombs)
New weapons need to be added like Mk-103 pods for the 190a8 (And yes they were used a fair amount don't start that they weren't used much) R4M rockets would be nice too. Panzerblitz rockets for the 190f8 (HT? Pyro? are you awake on this this has been requested for tours upon tours)
I have to say that a lot needs fixing before they start adding new stuff.
But to start work on EARLY war planes would be a waste of resources IMO
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Waste of resources for YOU. Not for ME. Not for anyone ELSE who wants to fly early war planes despite the arena being overrun by a large percentage of late war uber rides.
And the majority of things you want "fixed" appear to be German... so it's easy to see you're biased... nothing wrong with that, everyone wants their own stuff... but I want to see it all, there's time for more weapons and fixing art later down the road.
-SW
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Sorry but i gotto hijack
hands up
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yes, I'd like to see the Dewoitine D 520
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Nein ?
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Waste of resources for YOU. Not for ME. Not for anyone ELSE who wants to fly early war planes despite the arena being overrun by a large percentage of late war uber rides.
And the majority of things you want "fixed" appear to be German... so it's easy to see you're biased... nothing wrong with that, everyone wants their own stuff... but I want to see it all, there's time for more weapons and fixing art later down the road.
-SW
I'm biased now eh?
I don't know what other planes have wrong with them cause i don't really fly other planes other than German Iron. I'm sure there's people who fly British Iron only as well as other countries so can we knock off the LW hate for one minute here?
It is important that things are FIXED first before adding anything. The art, I agree can come later but fixes on some things are needed.
Loadouts can wait eh? How would you feel if the P47 was missing rockets? Or whatever you like to fly was missing a vital armorment? huh? I'm sure you'd want it too. People have been asking for the 190F8s correct armorments now for months and we haven't even gotten any word from Hitech or pyro or anyone of the sort.
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Soviet,
The Yak-3 with the VK107 engine only flew as a prototype during WWII. It didn't enter service in time to serve in WWII.
The single biggest non-hanger queen left to be added is the Ki-84. The Ki-84 would be in the top ten as far as usage goes, maybe even the top three. I can't think of any other aircraft left to be added that will place in the top ten. Do you want the Ki-84, Soviet?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Soviet,
The Yak-3 with the VK107 engine only flew as a prototype during WWII. It didn't enter service in time to serve in WWII.
The single biggest non-hanger queen left to be added is the Ki-84. The Ki-84 would be in the top ten as far as usage goes, maybe even the top three. I can't think of any other aircraft left to be added that will place in the top ten. Do you want the Ki-84, Soviet?
Yes, useful added to this game would be good. How is the Ki-84 in terms of performance? What i'm most interested in is deck speed and max speed at alt.
I may be Russian in ancestry but i really don't as much on Russian planes as I do german (German planes just always interested me more) Ok don't add the Yak-3 with a VK-107A engine but DO add a regular Yak-3. It's basicially a slower, better climbing, better turning yak-9u. It would be nice to have
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Soviet,
I agree about adding the Yak-3 with the VK105 engine. It would make a good addition. The Tu-2S would also be a nice addition.
As to the Ki-84's performance, well, it really depends on which data they use. The typical data that is used in sims gives the Ki-84 a deck speed of about 345mph and a top speed of 392mph at about 20,000ft.
However, there is a lot of debate about that being correct. I have seen many posts here that claim those numbers were obtained by a proto type Ki-84 that didn't have an engine as powerful as the main production models.
In US tests, with much higher octane fuel than the Japanese had, the Ki-84 was faster than the P-51 at all altitudes up to 20,000ft. It peaked at 422mph in US tests.
HTC modeled the N1K2 with the low octane Japanese fuel so I would expect the Ki-84 to be the same. It might slightly exceed 400mph at its best altitude, or it might hit the 392mph spot on.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Soviet,
I agree about adding the Yak-3 with the VK105 engine. It would make a good addition. The Tu-2S would also be a nice addition.
As to the Ki-84's performance, well, it really depends on which data they use. The typical data that is used in sims gives the Ki-84 a deck speed of about 345mph and a top speed of 392mph at about 20,000ft.
However, there is a lot of debate about that being correct. I have seen many posts here that claim those numbers were obtained by a proto type Ki-84 that didn't have an engine as powerful as the main production models.
In US tests, with much higher octane fuel than the Japanese had, the Ki-84 was faster than the P-51 at all altitudes up to 20,000ft. It peaked at 422mph in US tests.
HTC modeled the N1K2 with the low octane Japanese fuel so I would expect the Ki-84 to be the same. It might slightly exceed 400mph at its best altitude, or it might hit the 392mph spot on.
Sounds fairly balanced (the Ki84)
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but mainly, instead of adding some other US fought theater or something like that. Russia, Japan, and Italy need a nice planeset. The Yak-3 and Tu-2S would advance russia nicely. Ki-43, Ki-84, Ki-44, G4M. and some japanese torpedo bomber would fit the rest of japans planeset nicely too. Italy could use some nice planes too but i'm not too sure of what they used.
After these are added Germany despratly needs a decent bomber, the He-177 would fit this role good (oh and karnak, the bombload wasn't as great as you thought it was when i asked for the He-177 before, the A-5 version which should be added only carries a few thousand pounds of bombs) an Me-410 would be nice too (And you could get a Me-210 easily out of the model). Hs-219 would be nice too.
As of the next patch i suggest we lay off the US planes for a while, the US planeset is now HUUUUGE.
Also after all this is done it would be really cool to see a night figther thing. With say all the usual candidates, night fighting mossie, night fighting Bf-110, He-219 (Although maybe not this one cause it wasn't used too much), oh and a popular favorite P-61! :). How i would like this to be implemented is say, when it's night time enemy icons are OFF friendlies are on (cause there is no different plane between countries) the way to find enemies would be the planes onboard radar.
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Soviet,
I have nothing against adding the He177. Even with the data people were posting for it I didn't have a problem with it, I just thought it would need to be perked if it actually did what was being claimed of it. If its got a B-17 like bombload (4,000lb to 8,000lbs) I'd see no reason to perk it.
I still think the Ju188A-1 is the way to go, but hey, that's just my opinion.;)
The H8K2 "Emily" would make a much better addition than the G4M2 "Betty". The Betty'd be a hanger queen if there ever was one.
The H8K2 is better in every way in regards to performance. From HTC's perspective it'd be a huge amount of work. The H8K2 would be the biggest aircraft in AH if it were added right now.
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Originally posted by Soviet
Russia, Japan, and Italy need a nice planeset.
But the French don't even get one plane?
-Sikboy
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<<>>
The P-47M or N would probably be more popular than the Ki-84. Me-410 would not be a hangar queen either, or the Yak-3. But we are running out of uber planes to model, so it's a good time for the D.520 and other putt-putt planes.
ra
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Originally posted by Soviet
what i meant is The Germans need some stuff fixed "Like the damn 190F8 ARMORMENT!!!!!"
and also, i'm sick of these early war hanger queens. I want some nice mid-late war planes. Like the Tu-2S, He-177, Me-410, Il-2M3 with 2 37mm cannons. Yak-3 and Yak-3 with VK-107A engine.
I love scenarios as much as anyone but these planes really don't have much of a place in the MA. The only way Early war planes would get usage would be a rolling plane set. I'd say have it set so the time of the war changes every 20 hours.
A lot of things need fixing however, like new art for some planes (P-51, and B-17 are in need of a face lift and it would be nice for some new 190 and 109 art too). Bugs need to be corrected (like for instance if you select 2 250kg bombsi n the bf110g2 you get 2 500kg bombs)
New weapons need to be added like Mk-103 pods for the 190a8 (And yes they were used a fair amount don't start that they weren't used much) R4M rockets would be nice too. Panzerblitz rockets for the 190f8 (HT? Pyro? are you awake on this this has been requested for tours upon tours)
I have to say that a lot needs fixing before they start adding new stuff.
But to start work on EARLY war planes would be a waste of resources IMO
Allmost all of the planes we have are Late war planes, I love to see HTC adding early war planes for a change, and if you think they won't get flown in MA.... You're definitly wrong.
I love to fly early war planes, not cuz they are the latest and the greatest, but cuz they are challenging, and look really cool, and it gets a little boring to see all latewar spits,temps,n1ks etc.
And we don't have half the early war planes for any good scenarios earlier than 1942/43.
AH is definitly lacking early war planes, we don't even have a b25
much less I-16's,I-153's and the brewsterbuffalo for a russian front or GlosterGladiators, CR42's & italian bombers for malta scenarios.
If we have ME262's and Spit14's that hardly served a few years in the war, we should have early war planes, besides what do you not like about em? If you don't like em, just look at em as easy targets! :D
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D. 520s were used inthe defense of Polesti & recaptured planes were used by French units in the clearing out of SW France in '44 - '45...not just an early war plane...dont think they did too much dogfighting with Doras though, but were probably just fine for straffing troops
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YES!
The french really need some kind of representation! That twin engine plane the french had might also be a nice addition (thogh i dont remember its name)
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Bruget 690 series or Amoit 350 series probably
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Originally posted by plumbob
YES!
The french really need some kind of representation! That twin engine plane the french had might also be a nice addition (thogh i dont remember its name)
yeah, and its not *that* ugly
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Breguet Br-693
Single uber hizpano cannon and two 7,5mm MGs are visible at nose. Bristol Beaufighter is similar looking plane...
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Br-693 carried also two 7,5mm MAC34 mgs (back cockpit, ventral position) and 400kg (880lb) of bombs...
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Who gives a monkeys what would be most useful or what wouldnt get used (supposedly) in the MA?
The MA has very VERY little to do with what WW2 air combat was about. It is completely unrepresentative. All the MA is is a bunch of people having fights under very unrealistic conditions with WW2 aircraft, in simulation. (And sure, I join in, and sure it's fun at times, for a while. But it ain't a simulation of WW2).
The real WW2 had an RPS (rolling plane set). It had an early part where there were early war planes against other early war planes, some of which were obsescent or even obsolete even by the standards of the day. It had a middle part, with somewhat better planes and a lot of the old ones still in service. It had a late part, dominated by late war planes, but with some early types STILL hanging around.
The supply of aircraft depended upon production and logistics to support them. Aircraft were flown in units, to orders. Targets didnt miraculously rebuild in 15 minutes. And so on, and so on.
Add planes that are useful in scenarios as the FIRST criteria. They'll get used or not in the MA depending on the conditions there and individual preference, and whatever happens, the MA will STILL be more like an aerial FPS than a simulation of WW2 air combat, so long as players of all sides are free to choose planes of any side from any point in the war.
And if the He177 gets added, I will be immediately launching a campaign to get a "reliability factor" built into planes to mimic the effects of real unreliability problems.
It'd be nice to see folks asking for more REPRESNTATIVE planes more often, and to express some delight in putting actual SKILLS to use, rather than simply stamping their feet and crying because they don't have the plane with the biggest engine, biggest and most guns or bombload, irrespective of whether it ever actually saw service or was an engineers nightmare.
Continually demanding "better" planes in that manner is generally a mark of a very poor pilot, and certainly an immature one, IMO. Learn to fly; learn to fight; there isnt any WW2 plane which can make up for a deficiency in basic piloting and combat skills.
Esme
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Originally posted by Esme
Who gives a monkeys what would be most useful or what wouldnt get used (supposedly) in the MA?
The MA has very VERY little to do with what WW2 air combat was about. It is completely unrepresentative. All the MA is is a bunch of people having fights under very unrealistic conditions with WW2 aircraft, in simulation. (And sure, I join in, and sure it's fun at times, for a while. But it ain't a simulation of WW2).
The real WW2 had an RPS (rolling plane set). It had an early part where there were early war planes against other early war planes, some of which were obsescent or even obsolete even by the standards of the day. It had a middle part, with somewhat better planes and a lot of the old ones still in service. It had a late part, dominated by late war planes, but with some early types STILL hanging around.
The supply of aircraft depended upon production and logistics to support them. Aircraft were flown in units, to orders. Targets didnt miraculously rebuild in 15 minutes. And so on, and so on.
Add planes that are useful in scenarios as the FIRST criteria. They'll get used or not in the MA depending on the conditions there and individual preference, and whatever happens, the MA will STILL be more like an aerial FPS than a simulation of WW2 air combat, so long as players of all sides are free to choose planes of any side from any point in the war.
And if the He177 gets added, I will be immediately launching a campaign to get a "reliability factor" built into planes to mimic the effects of real unreliability problems.
It'd be nice to see folks asking for more REPRESNTATIVE planes more often, and to express some delight in putting actual SKILLS to use, rather than simply stamping their feet and crying because they don't have the plane with the biggest engine, biggest and most guns or bombload, irrespective of whether it ever actually saw service or was an engineers nightmare.
Continually demanding "better" planes in that manner is generally a mark of a very poor pilot, and certainly an immature one, IMO. Learn to fly; learn to fight; there isnt any WW2 plane which can make up for a deficiency in basic piloting and combat skills.
Esme
Esme, couldn't have said it better. I fly planes becuase they are fun, challenging, or maybe just look cool :) I agree that the Dewoitine D.520 should be added becuase it would represent France which at the moment doesn't have any airplanes. Since France capitulated early in the war they should have one of their best planes, the D520, representing them for the moment until HTC can make more fighters for France. Just my $0.02
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the D. 520 had a reputation as a hell of a turn fighter. Probably why it did so well against the Hurri in Syria. I'd be great fun to put it up against a Spit I, Emil or Zero....speaking of which, what was the tightest turning monoplane fighter of WWII? Oscar?
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no we need the bloch
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Originally posted by Esme
And if the He177 gets added, I will be immediately launching a campaign to get a "reliability factor" built into planes to mimic the effects of real unreliability problems.
The A-5 variant didn't have as many problems as the other variants of the He-177. Sure it wasn't the most reliable plane but by the A-5 variant some of the major bugs (frequent engine fires being most of them) were rolled out or minimized to a standard where it was acceptable to be flown.
Some people have the image that the HE-177 would just have it's engines ignite when flying all the time. This may have happend during the test stages and early variants but the A-5 variants fixed it, it may have occured a bit still butt it was down to a reasonable level where it wasn't happening that often.
I don't think there should be a reliability factor built in, you'd have to do it to all the other planes in the game to make it fair. and even then i don't like the randomness of it, in WW2 if you had a very well kept and maintain plane it wouldn't malfunction that much but if it's very poorly maintained it's going to let you down a lot.
For example the early war russian planes were often below par quality for that aircraft due to poor production standards.
Bottom line is the He-177 should be added but don't slap on some random reliability issues for taking it off when other planes never malfunction
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Originally posted by Esme
Continually demanding "better" planes in that manner is generally a mark of a very poor pilot, and certainly an immature one, IMO. Learn to fly; learn to fight; there isnt any WW2 plane which can make up for a deficiency in basic piloting and combat skills.
Well i don't want "better" planes but i want planes that at least could survive the main arena environment to a decent level. the Me-410, He-177 (the Ju-88 is a POS and the AR234 is a perk buff and really isn't too much of a "bomer" IMO). The He-177 NEEDS to be added, it has a good defensive armorment (Which is VERY important in the MA enviornment) and is a good buff.
I'm all for Early War planes but add some MA type planes in too :)
I repeat this too, WE NEED THE CORRECT LOADOUT FOR THE 190F8 that's what is needed the most now IMO.
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Originally posted by BenDover
slaps straffo over the head and points him to a hurricane
slap back ... ;)
It's brit and ugly ;)
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Originally posted by Karnak
Soviet,
The Yak-3 with the VK107 engine only flew as a prototype during WWII. It didn't enter service in time to serve in WWII.
The single biggest non-hanger queen left to be added is the Ki-84. The Ki-84 would be in the top ten as far as usage goes, maybe even the top three. I can't think of any other aircraft left to be added that will place in the top ten. Do you want the Ki-84, Soviet?
Are you sure ?
I've read that the Normandie-Nieman used some Yak3 with VK107 ... with far from reliables engines ..
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Thanks Chanter :) Was just tweaking some noses.
I would love to see the D520 in AH.
Westy
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Yak-9B would be intresting russian jabo. Plane got four 100kg (220lb) bombs at internal bomb bay (behind cockpit). Note tail wheel is still out... russian plane quality :D:rolleyes:
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Yep, read something in a book about those four (or six?) bombs tubes in the Yak, I wish they would add them to the game.
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Yes- you are biased Soviet.
Would I care if the P47 didn't have rockets? Well, no.. but since it carries 8 of 'em opposed to 2 of 'em... then I think it makes a lil more sense with the P47 than the 190F8.
What's needed MOST are new planes.
-SW
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Yak-9B cutaway, showing those four 100kg bombs and the pilot...
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Performance/data chart of Yak 9 series...
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Originally posted by straffo
slap back ... ;)
It's brit and ugly ;)
so's this pistol....
and, ermm, ain't you french?:p
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Originally posted by Dr Zhivago
Performance/data chart of Yak 9 series...
Is that 45mm testing? :eek:
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Originally posted by Kevin14
Is that 45mm testing? :eek:
Nope, chart shows that Yak-9K got 45mm NS-45 cannon (15 rounds carried) and 12,7mm mg. TK and UT variants could be fitted with 20, 37 or 45mm cannons. Only minor modifications was neened to attachment points and ammunition supply. NS-45s recoil caused many troubles, only single shot could be fired at near top speed without seriously affecting aircraft handling. Huge recoil stressed the airframe (40% greater than 37mm NS-37 recoil) wich often caused cracks/leakages to oil and water pipes. NS-45 cannon was also tested at Il-2 and Yak-3 protos. Yak-9K saw limited service during 1943...
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Check out this page...
(new to me anyway. I found it very interesting though)
http://www.geocities.com/tgenth/fotoww2e_2.html#p3
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Originally posted by Esme
Who gives a monkeys what would be most useful or what wouldnt get used (supposedly) in the MA?
The MA has very VERY little to do with what WW2 air combat was about. It is completely unrepresentative. All the MA is is a bunch of people having fights under very unrealistic conditions with WW2 aircraft, in simulation. (And sure, I join in, and sure it's fun at times, for a while. But it ain't a simulation of WW2).
The real WW2 had an RPS (rolling plane set). It had an early part where there were early war planes against other early war planes, some of which were obsescent or even obsolete even by the standards of the day. It had a middle part, with somewhat better planes and a lot of the old ones still in service. It had a late part, dominated by late war planes, but with some early types STILL hanging around.
The supply of aircraft depended upon production and logistics to support them. Aircraft were flown in units, to orders. Targets didnt miraculously rebuild in 15 minutes. And so on, and so on.
Add planes that are useful in scenarios as the FIRST criteria. They'll get used or not in the MA depending on the conditions there and individual preference, and whatever happens, the MA will STILL be more like an aerial FPS than a simulation of WW2 air combat, so long as players of all sides are free to choose planes of any side from any point in the war.
And if the He177 gets added, I will be immediately launching a campaign to get a "reliability factor" built into planes to mimic the effects of real unreliability problems.
It'd be nice to see folks asking for more REPRESNTATIVE planes more often, and to express some delight in putting actual SKILLS to use, rather than simply stamping their feet and crying because they don't have the plane with the biggest engine, biggest and most guns or bombload, irrespective of whether it ever actually saw service or was an engineers nightmare.
Continually demanding "better" planes in that manner is generally a mark of a very poor pilot, and certainly an immature one, IMO. Learn to fly; learn to fight; there isnt any WW2 plane which can make up for a deficiency in basic piloting and combat skills.
Esme
agreed 100%!Thats exactly why I'd like to see biplanes and other early war planes!, But even for the MA, I would fly ANY and prolly Every plane in the Main Arena (other than spits and 109G10's) ;)
Aces High is not just all about the Main Arena and what planes would "survive" in the Main arena.
Many of us enjoy scenarios,TOD,CT,and the Challenge of flying early war birds, shooting down the later "uber" war planes.
Every plane is flown in MA, and every plane get kills in the MA (yes even the C47!) no matter how "Obsolite" it is compared to the planes everyone else flys.
And many of you say "Early war planes don't fit with all the late-mid war planes we have, why add earlywar planes when theres nothing you can kill",
But if you never add early warplanes how will you ever have anything to kill with early war planes (easily anyway)?
I understand at the same time many of you would like to see late war planes added, and thats fine, I'm just saying we are REALLY lacking early war planeset, and its great to see HTC paying attintion to it :)
:eek: Will duck for cover behind my Gladiator now, as I see lots of MA Pilots charging at me throwing tomatoes;):D