Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ozark on June 28, 2002, 04:04:00 PM
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In CONGRESS, July 4th, 1776.
The Unanimous Declaration of Independence of the thirteen united States of America.
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, having its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient suffrance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their acts of pretended legislation.
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offenses:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighboring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally, the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever:
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizen taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connection and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
The Original Thirteen Colonies:
- Carolina (Later divided into North and South Carolina)
- Connecticut
- Delaware
- Georgia
- Maryland
- Massachusetts
- New Hampshire
- New Jersey
- New York
- Pennsylvania
- Rhode Island
- Virginia
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if the 9th circuit court rules the Declaration of Independence is "unconstitutional" does that mean we are part of canada??
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Originally posted by john9001
if the 9th circuit court rules the Declaration of Independence is "unconstitutional" does that mean we are part of canada??
jeez a fate worse than death :)
Ozark
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By all means, and while we are at it, the Bible should be removed from every hotel room in the country as someone just might open the drawer it is in and get upset, who is not of Christian beliefs.
Someone will surely bring this to court and we can't have that.
We should seek to remove anything from sight that could be construed as a religious ICON or remotely be of a religious origin. This would prevent any court based religious arguments, thus keeping the government from ruling on any of these issues.
Hmmmm,...didn't South Park do that episode? I guess those guys are smarter than I gave them credit for.
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I propose that any rulings made by any court on the subject of religion (either banning or requiring anything, for any place or time on the subject of religion or lack there of) should be considered null and void. As employee's/officers of the gov't the constitution forbids them from getting involved in matters of god. As citizens they should be free to believe or disbelieve, and express these beliefs or not as they see fit. But no officer of the gov't should be allowed to make rulings on issues concerning religion, as that would be a constitutional violation.
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Originally posted by Eagler
jeez a fate worse than death :)
Ozark
I'll say!! :D
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
By all means, and while we are at it, the Bible should be removed from every hotel room in the country as someone just might open the drawer it is in and get upset, who is not of Christian beliefs.
For your information, Constitution applies to the Federal Governmernt, not private individuals or companies.
miko
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And no, we shouldn't change a document that was written 200 years ago that doesn't actually affect our gov't. You need to differentiate between historical documents and in-school christian mantras.
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Originally posted by Kratzer
And no, we shouldn't change a document that was written 200 years ago that doesn't actually affect our gov't. You need to differentiate between historical documents and in-school christian mantras.
Doesn't actually affect our goverment?
That is the foundation of the United States of America.
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The Declaration of Independence doesn't carry any weight. As a legal document, it's worthless.
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Well, most people would argue that the Constitution is the foundation of the good ol' USA.
The Declaration is certainly an IMPORTANT document, and one that affected the hell out of our gov't 200 years ago, however, the words in that document (unlike the words in the Constitution) don't affect the running of our gov't today.
Why does everyone think that we SHOULD make kids say 'under God'? Christianizing a political statement weakens the very ideas on which this country (and the Declaration) was based - namely freedom of belief.
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Originally posted by Ozark
That is the foundation of the United States of America.
It's a historical document of great sentimental value and can be viewed as "spiritual" foundation but it has no legal status - same as private writings of Founding Fathers however wise they were. Constitution, on the other hand is The Law of The Land.
miko
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Well, Have a happy irrelevant, worthless legal document holiday. :)
OMG! It happened again! Holidays should be banned! Too holy. :eek:
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Nice aggrandizement of what people said. :rolleyes:
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I agree Ozark, changing historical documents and pledges is a crime.
Eisenhower's alteration of the pledge of allegiance should be struck and it should be returned to its former status.
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Originally posted by Kratzer
Nice aggrandizement of what people said. :rolleyes:
Thank you! ;)
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"Aghh, don't talk about death, it upsets me, in my religion 'death' is referred as 'step to another dimension'"
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actually, the Declaration of Independance is NOT a federal document.. I know its tough for some to grasp..it predates the United States by 13 years..it has as much legal weight as the Federalist Papers. Both landmark works.. just not a government documents..so it can say 'god' all over and not violate Article VI, Section III.
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Ozark! :D
(http://srg2000.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/letsrollorig.jpg)
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Originally posted by Gunthr
Ozark! :D
(http://srg2000.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/letsrollorig.jpg)
DITTO!!
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Declaration of Indepence is basically an idea put to paper. A very good one too!
The Constitution does speak clearly about a separation of church and state and this is the document that is at the core of our nation. Until there is an amendment made, I believe that our government appearing to back any religious denomination is illegal. There is no hinderance of anyone worshiping or pledging things to their god in the private setting. "God" is many things to many people, but not everyone is God fearing and rather put "god" with the likes of the Tooth-Fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Clause. If you were made to pledge something to the Tooth Fairy, just how serious of a pledge would it be to you?
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Hehe "One nation under the tooth fairy" has a good ring to it :D
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I think Ping answered this rather nicely on another thread:
Originally posted by Ping
John 18:36 : Jesus answered, My Kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
King James version.
I think that Jesus already commented on seperation of Church and State.
Are we so Arrogant as to beleive we should tell God what His stand should be?
Jesus wanted no part of Worldly political power, Satan offered him all the kingdoms of the world and he rejected that offer. Should we not follow his example?(those of us who are Christians, Athiests need not apply).
It seems everyone here is arguing from their own viewpoint, But not once has Gods View been quoted or stated.
It seems all Nations Claim...maybe not Russia or Cuba ;) that God is on their side ex: Nazi Germany....Seems Jesus stated non allegiance to any state for a reason.
Argue this all you want When it comes to issues regarding God, Christians should look to the Bible and base it on that...Not some politician who has other agendas.
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yikes
That's a bag of worms I'm not touching.
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you want a direct opinion? from somone who wrote it.
"No religious reading, instruction or exercise, shall be prescribed or practiced [in the elementary schools] inconsistent with the tenets of any religious sect or denomination." --Thomas Jefferson: Elementary School Act, 1817. ME 17:425
pretty damn plain donch think. if one religion had a problem with it its out . and since all religions hate each other the are all totaly out. if you dont like it send your kids to parochial school. ( better drugs anyway and if catholic lots of help for young boys after school)
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So who forces anyone to say the Pledge of Allegiance anyway? When I was a wee young'un we were never forced to say it. If you had beliefs religious or otherwise that made you feel like you didnt need to say it, you didnt have to. You just kinda stood there and didnt say nothing.....of course the rest of the kids then just thought you were stupid cause you werent repeating the words along with the rest of us. ;)
Hmmmm...you suppose these kids are being peer-pressured into saying the word "God" in school? :eek:
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Hmmmm...you suppose these kids are being peer-pressured into saying the word "God" in school?
Yes, they are.
"god" belongs in the church. If you don't get to say the word "god" enough in your life, go to church more but don't bring your church into my govt...on my money, in my schools or at my freakin' sporting events. It's very simple and we all know this idea: separation of church and state.
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So...if these folks have such strong anti-pledge of allegiance beliefs, then why are they letting a little peer pressure force them into reciting something that they dont want to recite?
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Sling, who is anti-pledge? Let's go back to your qoute:
quote:
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Hmmmm...you suppose these kids are being peer-pressured into saying the word "God" in school?
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The word "God" is in the pledge. Yes, children are pressured into regurgitating the word "God" because that is the state-accepted version of the pledge and that is what everyone has been chanting since the 1950s.
Our Constitution is the backbone of this country and clearly states a separation of church and state. Everyone is free to worship in his own home and in his own church enough so that it should not be necessary to do so in the public sector. Basically, teaching young minds to pledge this country "under God" is a form of brainwashing. For the State to purport our country is under God is illegal. But I realize the goal of most religions is the conversion of non-believers and so I am not surprised at the uproar behind this decision because the non-believers don't have to endure other's beliefs anymore in this little instance.
What will be interesting is how this will affect Christmas and Hannuka celebrations in public schools.
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i say ban xmas , save me a ton of money...
say , wait a min. the schools that ban saying "god" get a week off for xmas , what is that about?
halloween is a pagan holiday should it be allowed in schools?
the military is part of the govt , why do they have chaplians??
why does the congress open each session with a prayer, dosen't that offend the atheists ??
the washington redskins should be named washington saxons, then you can read about the saxons defeating the vikings instead of the redskins defeating vikings ( i know redskins never win any games , but you get my point )
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Lets go back to my point Steven.....who is forcing these kids to say anything? Nobody forces them to recite the pledge. If you dont want to say it, you dont say it.
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But... they WANT to say it... and not a different version than everyone else. Just one that does not reference God.
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Nobody forces them to recite the pledge. If you dont want to say it, you dont say it.
Sling, I don't believe anyone is forced to pledging allegiance in the schools. This has no bearing whatsoever on whether "God" is appropriate in the pledge and in our schools and government.
why does the congress open each session with a prayer, dosen't that offend the atheists ??
John, certainly it would.
the military is part of the govt , why do they have chaplians??
John, that's easy because the military chooses to provide basic personal needs.
I don't know why so many people have a problem with keeping their spiritual beliefs private in their homes and churches.
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This debate is pretty heated, but for a lighter take that should make both sides laugh . . .
http://www.satirewire.com/news/june02/pledge.shtml (http://www.satirewire.com/news/june02/pledge.shtml)
-sudz
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Oedipus: Why should any American citizen (not in public office, court or military) be required to say any oath or pledge. That itself is a violation of one of the Constitutions cornerstones; freedom of speech. :)
When you freedom of speech conflicts with limitation of thought (only rabid religious patriotic thinking allowed), which do you think takes precedence.
sling322: If you had beliefs religious or otherwise that made you feel like you didnt need to say it, you didnt have to. You just kinda stood there and didnt say nothing.
Accordig to the law, children are not capable of making decisions - hence they cannot possibly give consent to sex, vote, buy alcohol, tobacco, drive vehicles, etc.
if these folks have such strong anti-pledge of allegiance beliefs, then why are they letting a little peer pressure force them into reciting something that they dont want to recite?
Not anti-allegiance, just anti-religion. Anyway, we do have resistance to peer pressure, the children do not - that is why they are children. It's not just the size difference, you know...
miko