Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LUPO on November 05, 2001, 03:57:00 PM
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In my opinion we have in AH one of the best wiew system for a simulator, but...
who likes the dead six wiew?
We know that a monitor can't simulate the real world field of wiew, so all we agree that is important to find a compromise.
AH found a good compromise, but...
We have icons. We have inflight map. We have padlock.
Where's the SURPRISE? Surprise was the first tactic used in real world. Force us to manoeuver to look at our six, force us to fly with a wingman...
...pls ABOLISH 6'o click wiew.
Let me know your opinion about that, pls...
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I like it as is...put me down for a
NO
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I dunno about you guys, but I can sit in a chair and look behind me while only turning my neck and moving my eyes. And if I rotate at the waist I can see about 225 degrees from straight ahead.
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I think we should adopt the WW2OL method. It's the most realistic view system in the world.
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My vote is a big NO.
Lupo, if you like being surprised, please unmap your 6 view button and allow us to bounce you at will. Thanks.
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My vote: NO
...but get rid of the Linda Blair ability.
F.
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This again? Should of given up the first time.
-SW
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I'm with LUPO.
I'd like to see the dead six view taken out. Would really add to the pucker factor.
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Not voting either way since I've not played it online yet ... but ...
Wouldn't it make sense to get rid of external views first?
(ducking) :)
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...or just do something with it. Being able to spin your head in circles indefinately is a lil much. :)
Maybe leave the dead six view but make it where ya can't go past it without spinning your head the other way.
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You can't use fighter or vehicle exterior views in the arenas Arlo.
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Originally posted by LUPO:
In my opinion we have in AH one of the best wiew system for a simulator, but...
who likes the dead six wiew?
We know that a monitor can't simulate the real world field of wiew, so all we agree that is important to find a compromise.
AH found a good compromise, but...
We have icons. We have inflight map. We have padlock.
Where's the SURPRISE? Surprise was the first tactic used in real world. Force us to manoeuver to look at our six, force us to fly with a wingman...
...pls ABOLISH 6'o click wiew.
Let me know your opinion about that, pls...
Lay off the caffine!!! Your gonna fry those last 3 Brain Cells. :rolleyes:
A deffinate NO vote from me!!!
You must be out of your mind. Why do you want to remove realism?
No surprise?
You have constant swivel on your stick or something?
I have surprised many a AH pilot and have been the victim of surprise.
BTW, the AH view system is the best damn view simulation I have seen yet!
I have flown a few sims and AH is by far the best. (WB3 a close 2nd, but lacking realism in speed.)
No 6 view...Find another way to get your kills! :rolleyes:
Viper
OOOOOHHH!!! I know, lets abolish the 12 o'clock view! That will get rid of a large majority of HO's and add a REAL element of surprise!
[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Sky Viper ]
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Originally posted by Sky Viper:
No 6 view...Find another way to get your kills! :rolleyes:
Viper
Does this mean we're going to have to learn that ACM thingie?
Crap!
You guys sure know how to foil our fiendish plans! Meddling kids!
:mad:
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nope
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Ahhh .... good. I was worried, the C-47 thread left that impression. I'm glad to see I was wrong. < S >
Originally posted by hblair:
You can't use fighter or vehicle exterior views in the arenas Arlo.
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Ouch! Didn't know the views allowed a 360' spin of the head. I'm with ya on this.
Originally posted by hblair:
...or just do something with it. Being able to spin your head in circles indefinately is a lil much. :)
Maybe leave the dead six view but make it where ya can't go past it without spinning your head the other way.
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Save the 6! Nothing wrong with it.
I'd like to see it be restricted a bit though...being able to turn around 180 and slide all the way up against the instrument panel is a bit much ;)
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I agree that view restrictions on the 6-view in som flight sims are a wee-bit too strict. And as other people point out, viewing 6 O'clock is probably not impossible, just difficult and bound to the limits of the cockpit.
Leave us the 6 view, but just limit it within the boundaries of the cockpit and human anatomy :)
For example, this is the 6 view of a Corsair we have in AH.
(http://album.freechal.com/Comservice/activity/Album/getImage.asp?url=AHgallery&grpid=1144674&file=20%5Ff4u6view1%2Ejpg&objseq=1)
Give us the ability to program two 6 views, so we have one 'peering over left shoulder' view, brought out by ↙ ↓ hat key input, and one 'peering over right shoulder' view, brought out by ↘ ↓ hat key input.
And limit the 6 view within the cockpit/human anatomy boundary..
So, we'll have a 6 view like this:
Peering over left shoulder
(http://album.freechal.com/Comservice/activity/Album/getImage.asp?url=AHgallery&grpid=1144674&file=20%5Ff4u6view2%2Ejpg&objseq=1)
...and over right shoulder
(http://album.freechal.com/Comservice/activity/Album/getImage.asp?url=AHgallery&grpid=1144674&file=20%5Ff4u6view3%2Ejpg&objseq=1)
...
This should be a better compromise than totally getting rid of 6 view altogether.
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No. Why introduce unreality? Pilots; just as drivers, can see behind them.
Of course, they don't nessisarily have a clear view; but that's a different problem.
However, I would like to see more realistic cockpits and cockpit view restrictions, along with rear view mirrors for the planes that had them such as Spits and early jugs, along with the periscope in the Arado.
There could also be a case for saying that you should turn your head from dead 6 around the clock to dead 6 and not spin right through 360 degrees; but that doesn't support removing the dead 6 view it's self.
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Originally posted by hblair:
...or just do something with it. Being able to spin your head in circles indefinately is a lil much. :)
Maybe leave the dead six view but make it where ya can't go past it without spinning your head the other way.
I like this idea. Also, we should take away Hblair's 6 view. :)
SOB
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Where are rear mirrors ?
View's are not broken; No need to touch them.
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seeing as how i'm related to linda blair, I can turn my head all the way to the rear, therefore, ah's setup is realistic to ME. therefore, my vote is NOPE. :D
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What Staga said.
no
<S>IC
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No.
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6 view works fine. NO
Linda blair was one hot fighter pilot..keep her too.
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YES.
Kweassa's idea is good.
Camo
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NO
it's good the way it is...
simulates the fact that eyes are not locked into position in one's head.
Turn your head 90deg and you can still see behind you in RL - thus - the way it is now is more realistic than no 6 view.
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Yes to limited movement in a dead 6 view. Raising ur head around or thru the canopy is a bit :rolleyes:
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Uhm,
I've posted on this one soo many times...
Here's the jist of what I keep suggesting:
Views would basically keep track of what your anatomy is capable of doing.
Looking left & right 90() is instantaneous.
Looking behind and L or right is pretty fast (over the shoulder look)
Looking behind and up is pretty fast (while sitting in your chair, lean your head as far back as possible. Voila, upsidedown high 6 view)
But a true six view takes a fair amount of time.
Model it so that left and right 90 degrees are as fast as it is now.
135 degrees left and right is almost as fast as it is now (those last 45 () are 1/2 as slow.) Remember when looking back 135 degrees you can *just* make out your 6.
180 degrees left and right are 4x slower (the last 45 degrees)
Ditto with moving the POV. Left and right are very quick (leaning), but moving the POV forward gets progressively slower the farther you move. First 2 feet is as it is now, next 2 feet is 4x slower. Ditto with up and down. Up and down 6 inches is easy, beyond that it's way slower.
Think about it: In planes with heavy rear armor we generally set our six view to be as far foward as possible (so the armor eats up less of our view) and up as much as we can.
The slow part isn't getting your head swiveled around, it's scootching forward in the seat and propping yourself up!
Add in earlier blackouts when moving the head angle more than 135 degrees in a 1 second period (moving your head a lot under high G does this) and really slow down the forward / back movement when under G (can you slide around easily in your seat when you weigh 600 lbs? multiply slowdown by the g load ) and it'd be perfect!
Basically, you have exactly the same model as we have now, only with slower transitions in level fight and REALLY slow transitions when in combat. Checking from 8 to 4 O'clock is unchanged, but checking from 7 - 5 gets harder and harder as you approach 6.
So checking 6 would be:
Instant transition to your 3, 1/2 second to your 5, 1 second to your 6. All the while your head would move instantly to the side and up 6 inches, then 2 seconds later it'd be up another 6, then 2 seconds after that it'd be full forward in the cockpit.
You still get a quick 6 view, but to REALLY get a look behind the armor it takes a full 4 seconds.
My dos pesos.
~Lemur
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leave it as is. If you want to fly a flight game with restricted views, I believe WW2OL might be your cup of tea.
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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No
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I vote no to abolishing the 6 view and yes to abolishing the "6 wiew"!!!
By the way what the hell is a "wiew"? ;)
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It seems to me you want to have the element of suprise back. Well in WB's we had the element of suprise. We didnt have inflight radar and an enemy number counter on the dar. I say get rid of that and leave the views alone. Lets make the Radar that warns you of enemy in the area a thing of the past. I liked the WB's system and these guys are the same guys that built that. I wish they would go back to that radar system...
LLB OUT!!!!!
P.S. NO to the views idea ;)
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Hell no!
As a matter of fact certain planes should have the rear view mirror added (spits?)
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Remove programable joysticks, keyboards and monitors.
Put blindfolds on allied pilots, give 'em long sticks, string the LW pilots up by their feet, have 'em make 'vrroooom vrooom, rata tat tat" noises while allied pilots stagger around blind swingin at 'em like pinatas.
Switch sides once a month. (assuming any LW pilots are still alive)
This will solve all view, radar and combat arena gripes.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
I think we should adopt the WW2OL method. It's the most realistic view system in the world.
Dowd, you've either gone raving mad or forgot to put the :rolleyes: in.
My vote NO!
Now who was it that once posted he asked a P47 vet about how he checked his six......the vet looked at him funny and said "ya just turn round and look".
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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Originally posted by funkedup:
I dunno about you guys, but I can sit in a chair and look behind me while only turning my neck and moving my eyes. And if I rotate at the waist I can see about 225 degrees from straight ahead.
do this while driving your car funked (in a uncrowded wide open place)
in fact. ask yourself how often you actually turn your head 360 degrres and look back while driving? never. we have mirrors in cars.
why not make dead 6 view a simulated narrow fov mirror view? and only available on planes that had mirrors.
thanks. and enjoy :)
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News for guys wanting the views to stay the same, yet want mirrors added too:
Think for a second, who in their right mind would want to use a mirror 2X6-10 inches area of view, when you can just put your head on the dash, turn it around and get a wonderful wide area view of your 6?
Mirrors are just a waste of programming time and a waste of my system resources (FPS hit) if there is no reason to use them. If the view system remains as-is (good or bad is just our opinion), there would be absolutely no reason to use them.
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: hblair ]
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Just say Nay! to 'getting rid of 6 views'..
Say Aye! for limiting the 6 view head movements..
:D
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Originally posted by Citabria:
do this while driving your car funked (in a uncrowded wide open place)
Why? Cars have mirrors. If they did not, we would turn around and check the rear view just like we can do in airplanes. Even with seatbelts on.
in fact. ask yourself how often you actually turn your head 360 degrres and look back while driving? never. we have mirrors in cars.
Mirrors allow us to look back without the effort. So of course we use them in lieu of turning around. I bet folks in Ford Model-Ts turned around when they checked behind them.
why not make dead 6 view a simulated narrow fov mirror view? and only available on planes that had mirrors.
Because in those planes that didn't have mirrors, the pilots could lean forward a bit and turn around to check their rear view. Do you honestly believe that Spitfire pilots couldn't turn to check their six views if the mirror somehow broke? The mirror saves time and effort, and for that reason it's great. But the mere presence or absence of a mirror doesn't physically prevent players from seeing behind them.
-- Todd/Leviathn
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Dead Man Flying ]
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As radars can be killed, and padlock loose
track when obstructed, I don't think the
majority use the padlock anyway. It will
restrict the pilot to much in my opinion.
So i'm afraid its a NO from my side.
However new Input and suggestions is welcome.
mrniel2
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Well, we probably should have two rear views: 4-5 and 7-8 o'clock. Like the old "Fighter Duel" or the new "IL-2" and "WW2OL" (if I'm not wrong). Problem is that my joystick's hat has only four positions ... our actual 6 view system is weird to say at least, but I live well with it. Abolish it totally? NO. Make it better? YES.
I took a ride in Warbirds III just some days ago. Its incredible how that horrible 6 view and lack of radar affect the dogfight. However, I prefer AcesHigh ... it is way better and more relaxing as far as SA is concerned :)
A radar bar only system would be good for scenarios (bring us BIG scenarios soon! :)) and special arenas. In the Main is nice to check and quickly choose the fight you prefer. An high HQ interception? A furball? A 2vs1? ... Where are squadmates? Whatever ... Just my 2 weak € ;)
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: gatt ]
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nope, leave it as is
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Question isnt if YES or NO ... P51D dweebs from MA will vote NO ... pilots with small experience will vote ¨yes ...
But exactly same people whitch VOTE NO will never enter CT and exactly same people VOTE YES wanna fly in CT mostly .
Question is if HiTech can make this features as 1 flag on server, so it could be setup able.
How about this ?
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Btw do not foget that pilots had mirrors . we have no them.
In CT you usualy know enmy because you are very careful :)
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NO
Tumor
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Originally posted by Citabria:
[QB]do this while driving your car funked (in a uncrowded wide open place)
in fact. ask yourself how often you actually turn your head 360 degrres and look back while driving? never. we have mirrors in cars.
QB]
Ok Cit, how bout bikes? I ride an R6 (small, fast, cramped riding position). Dunno if you've ever seen the mirrors on an R6 but they aint exactly the biggest or widest ever fitted to a bike, in fact in a winter jacket I have to move an arm outta the way to see behind. So it's much easier sometimes just to look........and I can happily look behind me with a full face helmet on without taking my hands off the bars.
Now what's your point?
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
P.S. It's 180 degrees ya turn, not 360. If ya turn your head 360 degrees on a bike, you've just been hit an 18 wheeler.
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How do you guys feel about making the six view so you just cant rotate your head endlessly in one direction?
Say, like if ya turn left to look straight back, and ya wanna look out the right side of your plane, you'd have to rotate your head to the right to see out your right side instead of just further left. This is what I'm talking about.
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I prefer an enemy that *knows* that I'm jumping him, anything less is like shooting carp in a barrel.
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no thanks,I die enough as it is :)
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I fly planes .. i can look out the back
ergo
N O
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Kweassa, the first picture, the one you think is too liberal, IS the view you get in an F4U when sitting in the cockpit. It's not a P-51D view but it has a very good rear view.
I DO think the ability to go from the 7 view to the five by way of the 6 view is wrong. I do think some cockpits are a bit liberal in extending ones head. Otherwise you folks who think WWII pilots were nailed to thier seat backs from the shoulders on down are imagining things.
I vote NO for the same reasons as has been already stated very well by several in this topic.
Westy
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Heya Duck,
can you do it even when tightly strapped in your belts? I can do it while flying lazily during a cross country, when I can adjust belts and release them a little. However, I cant do it while performing loops, barrel rolls, hammer-heads ... even spins in a CAP10, tightly strapped like a "salame" :) Can you?
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no, No, and NO again
I do get to vote 3 times right? Cause I'm special ;)
The "six view" purists tend to neglect the fact that you have peripheral vision in real life, and that you can very legitamately loosen your shoulder harness to lean forward to see the six view they want to abolish.
And yes I know, because I have done it in a AT-6 Texan while flying aerobatics up to 5 G's.
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Of course no, What a silly suggestion.
lazs
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I was taking the P, Swoop. :) WW2OL view system is rubbish, as you probably know.
And I say NO! to this poll.
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No.
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I vote NOfor removing the six view.
Quite a few planes back then had mirrors on them so the pilot could look up and get some sort of view of their six by looking into a mirror. Yes, it was still partially obstructed, like AH is, but this notion that WW2 pilots were never able to partically check their six is unfounded.
Even the clear bubble canopy mustangs had mirrors mounted to better enable a pilot to quickly check his six.
If you want to say you would rather have a mirror mounted check six view for planes (narrow mirror view) .. well that is something different all together.
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: GhstDncr ]
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No. I vote that we let people choose not to look backwards if they don't want to.
Hooligan
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No.
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YES
I am all for removin 6 view
SKurj
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Skurj gets first 'it' for the Pinata.
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No
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No thanks - keep it the way it is.
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Gatt:
i also have an aerobatic rating. Which straps keep you IN the airplane and tight in the seat ?
Correct the lap harness and the Zero G Strap.
Which harness can be relatively loose ?
Correct the sholder harness!
Don't know for you but i never have my sholder straps THAT tight that i can't twist and lean in the cockpit and i don't really get thrown around either .. i can't completely tighten the sholderstraps because i'm not the tallest and i loose stick travel if i do plus i have a hard time reaching some controls.
So turning around to your 6 is not that big of a deal and yes i have done it pulling Gs too .. however as some said there should be a limitation on head travel e.g. not clockwise 360degrees
DW6
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I want whatever you guys want.
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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I realy dont know why do you need 6 view.... you are alredy dead when you see any enmy there ;D
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Originally posted by LUPO:
...pls ABOLISH 6'o click wiew.
Yes - If you want to have AH as realistic sim.
No - if you want it as a good game.
My vote: YES !
And please bring G-limited speed of head moves and rear view mirrors to the planes where it historicaly belongs!
The current view system is one of the most unrealistic features of AH. The "belted" pilot have no chance to move his body up and down, side to side, forward and back like you are able via current AH view system.
czpetr
249 Squadron "Gold Coast" =CHQ= Tangmere Wing
[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Czpetr ]
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"I realy dont know why do you need 6 view...."
Because without it I'd never see an enemy plane.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by EagleC:
I realy dont know why do you need 6 view.... you are alredy dead when you see any enmy there ;D
Speak for yourself. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn