Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: yuto on June 29, 2002, 03:05:00 AM
-
I remember when I was 7 years old, my dad took me to the local CompUSA and said "pick a game, any game." Being an airplane fanatic, and with the flight simulator market not yet developed, the choice was quite simple: Microsoft Flight Simulator version 4. Since then, I've encountered and subsequently mastered several other civilian and combat simulators including Sublogic ATP, SFS5, MSFS95, Microprose Fleet Defender, Fighter Ace 1.5, MSFS98, MSCFS, Flight Unlimited, MSCFSII, MSFS2000, Fighter Ace 2.0. As a combat pilot, I considered myself good. . .more than good. . .the best, actually. . .that is, until I came across Aces High about a year and half ago. I knew from the start that this sim was going to be different. Unlike all the arcade games out there that focused on ease of playability, this one focused on pure realism. Purdy graphics could only contribute so much to the realism of a game. A good flight model is crucial, and this game had it. So anyway, realistic sim --> steep learning curve. I decided to take my time. The free multiplayer games would satisfy my frequent flight sim urges and would sufficiently familiarize me with the basics.
Well, its been a year and a half, and I feel I've reached a plateau. My marksmanship and ACM are as good as they're gonna get. Yet, I can easily find pilots out there than can consistently beat the pants off me. The question is, how do you reach the next skill level? Am I missing something here? What do you have to say about the following:
-Padlock - Does anyone use this feature? I remember in FA2.5, it was crucial if you wanted to be competitive.
-Blind Spots - My Microsoft joystick has an 8 view hat switch. I find its sufficient for most purposes, but not for those edge-of-your-seat, dogfight with God-in-a-Spitfire. A lot can change by the time a plane traverses a blind spot, and I need every advantage I can get. How do you view a direction like. . .forward-left-up (10 o'clock high) without using your left hand for the keypad?
-Leading - This is only a problem in Aces High where you have that big non-transparent cockpit blocking your view. I've used two methods in leading a plane. 1. Match the bank angle of your opponent, align the crosshairs, and then tighten the turn. Unfortunatley, you have to get good at clairvoyance, which I have yet to do. 2. Align the crosshairs, level your wing with the horizon, and use your rudder to lead the plane. Your cockpit doesn't get in the way, but you have an instant to snap a shot.
Anyway, thats all I'm willing to type for now. I've already had to type this whole thing all over again when I accidently hit tab and then space for whatever reason. I'll try to post more messages in the future, but only if I have something good to say. Otherwise, you'll find me in the h2h rooms flying under the nick Yuto, Dorkus, or DKarnage. See you in the skies!
-
Well, I don't evolve because i'm hit-sprite addicted. :p Can't stop yanking that stick to get in a shot even if it will blow all my e and leave me as a zeppelin at 1k. It has something to do with patience, I think...
-
Patience...mhhhh that would be one, yes :)
Been 3 years for me,& I still can't shoot !!!
-
As far as blindspots go, I use an 8 way hat also. That does cover most angles. However, in those knife fights, you pretty much have to rely on your SA and predict where the enemy is going to go. If you make the wrong choice, then try to gain a little seperation, then engage again.
Gunnery is not my strongpoint, but again same rule applies. When your opponent is below your eye level in the cockpit, predict where he will be. Its just a matter of practice.
Padlock view - I'd be very surprised if any people use it here. From what I understand, if the icon is lost, say in one of the bars of the cockpit frame, then you lose the padlock. Sounds to me like its more trouble than its worth.
-
Heyas!
Just some thoughts:)
Don't use padlock...makes ya lazy.
Get rid of that joystick...throw is too limited. Check these out, some of the smoothest around.
http://www.chproducts.com
Views....your view setup is critical...example; I have pan setup on one of my throttle hats...when I lose a bandit in a canopy frame or underneath the nose, I can just bump this hat...it's like moving you head around the obstruction.
Keep on keepin on...takes years to get this down, especially if your old with slow reflexes and a mind to match:)
Good Luck!
-
I'm not a great fighter pilot by any means, I fly bombers usually but I've been playing online sims long enough to throw a few suggestions in...
Don't use padlock, no padlock system I've ever tried is as intuitive as being able to move your head in real life, do yourself a favour and map a button on your stick to the F8 key which allows you to pan the view using your hat switch in the cockpit, that way you can follow a con and keep it in sight without burning away all your energy as he is, let him pull tighter and just pan the view slightly up so he's just above the top of your cockpit frame, once he's used up all his energy then go in for the kill.
To look up in the 8 directions try mapping a key to Numberpad 5 key so that when you press this on your stick and then operate the hat switch you can view up in all directions. Also worth trying the F8 key pan view as well but I find it useful to have both these buttons mapped to my joystick. With these two buttons mapped to your stick you will eliminate blind spots.
Optimise your views in each direction, use the cursor arrow keys and Page Up and Page Down while holding down a view on your hat to alter your head position, whilst still holding the hat view press the F10 key when in the desired view to save that so everytime you go back to that view that head position is saved. Handy for rear views and also useful for looking over cockpit spars in planes like the P38 looking left and right.
If it's an MS Precision Pro or MS Force Feedback then its fine for online sims, personalyl not my taste (I own a MS FF2) as I prefer a separate throttle and stick and currently use a HOTAS Cougar which I recommend highly. That being said some of the best online pilots I have ever known use the MS twist sticks and one of my own squad mates racks up the kills using one.
Hope that helps, just my two cents
-
Your interest seem to be largely concerned with views.
I, like almost everyone else in AH, use a 8-view hat key combined with a "Shift" button on the joystick set to look "UP". The combination of the "UP" button and the hat key comfortably gives out 18 view points. All these view points are customizable so you can get the best view possible in a certain direction. Experiment with various head positions.
.....
As for Padlock, the reason this feature was so important in Fighter Ace was;
1) FA had way too easy flight models. Disorientation hardly led to fatal stalls
2) the snap view was not as efficient as AH
3) Padlock tracked the enemy even through blind spots
In AH, flight models are difficult... and a little bit of disorientation during maneuvers immediately leads to stall, or a critical mistake. The snap view is comfortable and efficient, and padlock does not offer you anything more than snap views - it won't track an enemy through the fuselage or underneath the seat.
.....
Blind-lead shooting, no matter how well executed, will depend a lot on luck. One other option might be to save your ammo, and patiently wait until you have the ideal deflection angle for shooting, instead of trying a low-probability blind lead shot. Personally, high angle deflection shots are a total waste of ammo in most cases, and an unthinkable luxury with planes with low ammo loads.
-
the kid wants tips on fightin not just views on a joystick.......keep fightin...try new maneuvers.....don't be afraid too stick your neck out......i'll give an ex: yesterday i'm in a JUG (P47D25) i'm about 15k high.....2 planes around me....1 17 lower about 10k....1 190a5 about co-alt....me an 190 go head to head....we extend.....mistake on part of 190....i jump on his buddy 17....BANG goes 17.....JUG has lovely 8 guns(.50 cal)......now 190 is on my tail....hmmm your thinkin mistake on my part.....but oh nono i tell ya.....when i say stick your neck out...this is it.....190 on my 6...i'm gonna die right....nope....reversed the situation...popped the 190....if ya don't try these things you will never get better....sure cherry pickin is fun...gets borin.....lemme tell ya...it feels real good when you can reverse and kill some1 who thinks he had the adv.
practice these things and eventually you will be very good...but make no mistake...there's always some1 better.
SLO:cool:
4WING=441Silver Fox=
-
I pretty much agree with everything that has been siad here. Tho I'm not the "Killing Machine" I hope to be, I am still getting better every month.
I know of one person who uses the padlock all the time and it works VERY well for him. I've tried it but like using "snap view" better, but in both styles I think the important thing is to keep the bogie in "a" view. This is where the "patience" part comes in :) In most sims with the flight model set-up they have its possible to just jump right in and attack, all the time being aggrasive. In AH you have to out last your opponent more... saving all the "E" you can and when the enemy has faltered, it is very easy to "center" the bogie in your sites and down them with a couple of bursts of your guns. Plan your fight around soft easy turns, keeping the enemy in one view all the time. The "1" or "3" view is good as long as you have the alt :)
The biggest problem with this style of fighting in the main arena is you rarely have the time to do this :) Ganging and cherry pickin is very common.
I'd fly in the main arena if I was you tho. You are going to run into worst situations as far as getting ganged and such, but it will teach you which fights to get in on, and when to "run away to fight another day". That and you come up against some pretty darn good pilots in the main arena, and thats the best way to learn to get better.... watchin how he blew you out of the sky so quick ! heheh
Cya up !
Maddog Joe
(http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/444th3.jpg)
-
What he needs is an hour with an Advanced ACM trainer like Ammo, Drex, or MarkAT.
Unfortunatly they all seem to have burned out.
I'm still training but don't have the skills to teach advanced ACM. Fly it perhaps on a good day but not teach it.
-
Turn off tracers.
Recognize what your adversary is doing and "get to the spot" before he does. You don't have to "stay on 6" to get a guns solution.
Fly every AC in the set and learn what they can do and what they can't. Mentally log the strengths and weakness during your dogfights, then use those.
You will be shot down. For example. Lastnight I was in a P51b fighting an La7. He was good. He took his aircraft to the deck where he knew his aircraft was better than mine. He screwed up by resorting to turn fighting instead of using the vertical. The use of flaps in the 51 got him killed. I was shot down by a spit9 5 seconds later as I was near stall speed and no way to evade.
What my mistake was, was not being shot down by the spit but being in the wrong place in a P51b. I wanted the La7 too bad. I should'nt have followed him to the deck.
-
How can you play without 'up' views? That's just crazy.
-
Being a math teacher, I tend to prefer graphs as they illustrate a lot of points very nicely. The following is a graph the represents my thoughts on developing skill in AH. It is a relative graph with no distinct units of measure or values. It varies from person to person, but I think that it represents fairly well what most people go through in terms of acclimating themselves to AH and developing their skill. Obviously there are exceptions.
I feel that at first, you are learning how to fly the sim and do some basic things in terms of ACM. You are learning how to manage your speed, fly on the edge of a stall, work the view system and find a plane that you prefer to fly. After awhile, it seems that your skill level has plateaued. At this point, it seems that you have not progressed at all from where you were before. For some, this can last a very long time. For others, it may be only a few weeks. All of a sudden, it seems, you start killing guys you never did before, you start doing things that you never thought you could before. Then, after awhile, you will hit another plateau. That will last awhile, then you will get better. Then another plateau. On and on and on.
What I am trying to say is that unless you lose interest in the game, stick with it, you will get better. Most people are constantly learning and improving. It is just not as apparent to themselves as it may be to others.
-
Watch how other people kill you and figure out how they did it. Ask them if you need to. Use film to record incidents so you can figure out what is happening.
Hooligan
-
I've got a old Thrustmaster flight control system I've been using for 4 years. It only has a four position hat. If this set ever dies I'm in deep do-do ;)
Don't forget by adding another stick set, you double the views. Pinky on the stick toggles stick sets. Second stick set is setup for all "up" views. More than enough with two additional on the throttle. ( back left, and back right )
With an eight position hat, your "foreward left up" would be the 10 o'clock hat position in the second stick set. Waaay too many views to keep track of IMO.
As far as reaching a plateau, besides "practice" ( sorry I'm too busy playing ) what you need to evaluate is your strengths weaknesses. Everytime you die, ask yourself why. You'll see a pattern emerge, than work on it.
Next realize that no matter how good you are, there are guys that will make you look like a newbie. No matter how much I practiced guitar, I NEW I would never play like Clapton. Accept the fact that some guys are just plain "good" and you ain't gonna get "there"
I've come to terms with my mediocrity :D
If your flying head to head, haven't flown it here but I imagine it's a duel kinda thing ??? As Apache said you have to know the plane your fighting as well or even better than you know the one your in. Constantly reevaluate his energy state compared to yours and acting accordingly and work it.
In the arena's it's SA. And everyones SA comfort zone is different depending on there own ability. That can be learned also but you gotta die to learn it. And some are just gonna be plain better at it than yourself. Watch the BK's in a furball and you'll see what I mean.
The last plateau I reached that I was able to pass was mindset. Not ACM, not SA just a simple mindset..........I was going to LAND. If I got a kill, great, but I was going to LAND.
I don't go out to kill planes, I go out to eventually land. As long as my beer quotent is down, I do :D And I seem to get as many kills as I used too, but I don't die :D
Finding the envelope of where you are "good" and having the discipline to stay within the envelope is where you want to be. The better you become, the larger the envelope.
And that's the demon I fight with :)
But there is ALWAYS someone who will just beat the crap out of you, and do it waaaay to easily ;)
Their envelope is just way bigger than yours ;)
For those moments, you can always kick the dog....mine only has one eye and three legs now..........the poor bastage...
-
10,000 deaths = good virtual pilot ( in some cases)
for me i think i need 20,000
SA and paitence. and sometimes SA is out the window. when you are fighting 1v1 and ya happen to look around in your views and see nothing for miles and then in the next 10 seconds 8 of his buddies doing the MA conga line on yer bellybutton :) then ya wonder where in the hell did all of these guys pop up from.
as you are sitting in the tower scratching yer head going "hummmm.... now where did those doods come from? I know i had that guy till his buddies decloaked and gave me a 20mm enema." was clear just me and 1 nme. boggles the mind
So i conclude im a dweeb pile-it and i need to keel faster so then my paitence goes out the window on the next flight. ill do someting totally stoopid like lawn dart or hose all my ammo away on the first gun pass not hitting a thing. most of us know this drill.
then comes the sleepless night with me laying there thinking about the night of multiple deaths. i get up and go to work the next day trying to figger out what went wrong. so AH has consumed most of my thoughts. and everything else around me goes to hell in a hand basket but do i notice NOOOOOOOO!
the gold fish dies because i have blocked out his feeding time to fly AH. the kids forget who i am because all they do is see me glued to the computer flying. (last week the youngest kid asked if he could put the cat in the microwave.) since i dont wanna be distracted, i tell him to go ahead. because that is what i tell him to avoid the why question and get him out of my hair.) Kids to effect you SA and i just dont like to be distracted.
the Wife moved out and i didnt notice( i forgot her name anyhow):D all of my friends think i am mad at them because i dont return their phone calls. and my dog ran off.
my mom came over to visit and i think she might be planning one of those intervention things.( like they do for the folks that are hooked on crack or something)
So becomming a better pilot is about as painless as wacking yerself in the head with a hammer 5 or 6 times a day without the big lumps:D
-
My advice (pretty worthless I guess):
A. Get Shaw's Fighter Combat. Read it. That will give you the vocabulary to analyze what you're doing.
B. Fly a lot, but analyze what you do:
1. Find someone else and duel. After the duel, evaluate each other's performance.
2. Do the same with a squad. 2v2, 3v3, whatever.
3. In the MA, fly with a wingman, or a squad, and after each sortie, analyze what worked and what didn't.
4. Fly TODs, campaigns and any of the other "historical" events. Keep the film running. Afterwards, evaluate:
a. your performance. What did you do? What didn't you?
b. your squad's performance.
c. your side's performance.
now go look at the film, and read the AARs. Post one of your own. Don't be afraid to criticize. If nobody tells me what I'm doing wrong, I won't improve.
Every time you get shot down, it's something you did wrong. Figure it out.
C. Some practical tips:
1. Study the performance charts of the planes. Where are you most competitive? What sorts of tactics should you use?
2. Dogfights are won with ailerons and rudder, not the elevator.
3. Work up a couple of good defensive moves. A high bandit screaming on your six puts you in the same position as a pitcher in baseball. You have to pitch something, and he has little time to guess what it is. If you have one good move, you'll beat most of the minor leaguers. But if you split ess on every pass, even a rookie will be able to guess what's coming and anticipate it.
Pulling slowly vertical is a "fat pitch". Don't hang those curves.
4. Offense: I can't shoot, so I can't tell you much.
-
Another approach may be to be more picky. This means picking your fights. Often as "virtual pilots" we dont worry about our lives so much so we automatically think all cons are the same without a face and go after the first con we see. I guess the thought pattern is, do I have more E, is my plane up to snuff as compared to his. Go for it, dude Im ded. Instead of using that approach perhaps you might try picking your fights more carefully. The concept is similar to trying to read the deck of cards when you are playing with a bunch of friends, its natural if you think about it. Go after or pursue those bandits that you feel you are a match for, let the other more dangerous ones alone. Try to figure out a system of determinging who that con below you might be or what are the chances that it can be slayed. Just my thoughts, hope this helps as well.
-
Use the FORCE! :)
-
Hmm... I read Shaw's book. I find very few of his doctrines applicable to AH. I never bothered memorizing all the different terminology either, I play AH for fun, not work. I taught myself nearly everything I know... other people can only instruct you to a certain point, the rest you need to develop on your own--Your style.
I wouldn't bother trying senna's advice, only thing that will accomplish is teaching you how to have good k/d, which is an exemplar of nothing more than patience and reluctance.
-
I think Senna offers good advice for those that "fly to live." It probably doesn't apply to those that like furballing.
EDIT: There... happy?
-
flame war here we come.........
-
I did not intend that has a flame. It's your $15. Fly however you like.
-
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I think Senna offers good advice for those that "fly to live." It probably doesn't apply to those that like QuakeBirds.
As opposed to real life, where you could pick and choose your fights at will and egress from a fight if the odds looked too severe, right? Don't kid yourself... those who fly to live are flying QuakeBirds as much as those who enjoy furballing, only they're playing the role of campers/snipers instead of as rocket jockeys. Same game, different way to play it is all.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
That's some really good advice Apache.
I'll only add
Film and watch it to see what went wrong.
Look at the total situation before you engage.
take a fly over before you dive in, and get an overall view of the flow of the fight, then pick your targets according to your plane and fighting style. (example, blow thru or edge picking or clearing 6's as people egress)
Also realize that many times just because you see an enemy he may not be "on" you..he may not see you or be actually heading to engage someone next to you.
This goes for during the fight as well. Just because he's flopping around doesn't mean he's making any headway. His plane has no magic, which you'll realize when you fly them all or get used to fighting them all.
Alot of this is a confidence game once you get used to the planes.
Force yourself to fly differently than you normally would (if you are usually careful, go in guns blazing, if you usually do that try being careful a little more)
Originally posted by Apache
Turn off tracers.
Recognize what your adversary is doing and "get to the spot" before he does. You don't have to "stay on 6" to get a guns solution.
Fly every AC in the set and learn what they can do and what they can't. Mentally log the strengths and weakness during your dogfights, then use those.
You will be shot down. For example. Lastnight I was in a P51b fighting an La7. He was good. He took his aircraft to the deck where he knew his aircraft was better than mine. He screwed up by resorting to turn fighting instead of using the vertical. The use of flaps in the 51 got him killed. I was shot down by a spit9 5 seconds later as I was near stall speed and no way to evade.
What my mistake was, was not being shot down by the spit but being in the wrong place in a P51b. I wanted the La7 too bad. I should'nt have followed him to the deck.