Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Halo on June 30, 2002, 01:13:43 PM
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Should port captures and fleet acquisitions be reconsidered? The Knights captured a port but haven't had a fleet the past couple days I've been on. Supposedly the previous fleet owners hid it somewhere.
I understand the new port owners get the fleet after it has been sunk. But if it is hidden somewhere and not sunk, the new port owners get the port but no fleet.
Is this good game play to allow stashing fleets somewhere out of action? Who would sign up to play a game like that? Is that fun for anyone, either the side hiding the fleet or the side denied use of it? Might be cute idea for a few minutes, but soon the hiding tactic just denies a lot of fun and action to all players.
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Yeah fleet hiding is annoying but that just means you have to get out there and find it. Provided the other countries haven't managed someone to stash is WAAAAAY out of the way or worse off map somewhere. Once the fleet has been found it's really only a matter of getting a few people together to go get it. Don't think it requires much more organization than say taking the port to begin with. I guess I just can't think of a better alternative, should be good sports and deliver the fleet to the bad guys when the take our port? or should the fleet get ripped out from whereever it is doing whatever it's doing the moment the port is captured? Sure fleet hiding is a pain sometimes but I can't think of better realistic alternative.
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the side thats hiding the fleet can't use it , so it's just temp out of the game
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We could simulate the logging of patrol data with a port master and when a port is captured the the current course settings of its associated fleet are displayed for the team now controlling the port.
Only the course input (the arrows) at the time of capture would show up and not the boats themselves. The arrows would not be updated after capture.
This would give a starting location for the search and destroy missions.
F.
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how about after a certain time say 4 hours(?) the owner of the port gets the fleet respawns and they get, UNLESS it gets retaken
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Hiding a fleet is a cheesy tactic. If you have a fleet then use it. And if it is hidden then just before you log for the night, switch over to the country that is hiding it and report back to your country where the CV is. I've switched a few times in order to tell my country where the CV is. CV hiding is cheesy but also easy to get around. That's why it doesn't make sense to try and hide it when it doesn't take much for them to find it. Use the dang thing before they sink it.
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I like Furious's idea seems very reasonable.
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Thanks for some good ideas. Probably need to do something, because this weekend the fleet from Port 14 was hidden the better part of two days. Every time I signed on Saturday and Sunday, when the Knights had the port they did not have the fleet.
Message traffic commented on it, but to my knowledge the fleet was never found, and if it was, certainly not sunk.
Sorta like "Okay I'll take my toys and go home if you capture my port."
Again the point is fine to be clever, but not to the extreme of disrupting game play. If your side has enough territory and you don't even need the fleet, it is too easy to just stick it away in some obscure area too far from battle lines.
It's tough enough to fight through other diminished capabilities without playing Hide The Fleet. People will game the game, so once again it's up to the game designers to keep Aces High playable enough so players don't log off or quit because the odds are stacked too much against them.
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Fleet should show on the map when you have its port.
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heard this sometime back
If a fleet has not been sunk in 2 hours of a port capture
then a new fleet spawns (if fleet is sunk then spawn time is 10 min like now)
Country that lost port will get to keep their fleet till it is sunk (for reset purposes;
after new fleet spawns at port, old fleet no longer counts as a base in need of capture)
maximum 3 fleets from 1 port (1 for each country that
capured the port and held it for 2 hours)
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Originally posted by Halo
Should port captures and fleet acquisitions be reconsidered? The Knights captured a port but haven't had a fleet the past couple days I've been on. Supposedly the previous fleet owners hid it somewhere.
I understand the new port owners get the fleet after it has been sunk. But if it is hidden somewhere and not sunk, the new port owners get the port but no fleet.
Is this good game play to allow stashing fleets somewhere out of action? Who would sign up to play a game like that? Is that fun for anyone, either the side hiding the fleet or the side denied use of it? Might be cute idea for a few minutes, but soon the hiding tactic just denies a lot of fun and action to all players.
look at it this way. P14 cant be held long by the enemy without having A15 since its a 5 mins drive with m3 to retake. with p14 in
original owners hands, CV13 is in danger of going back to them if sunk. when returned to them, A10 would be under constant attack from CV13 since it spawns 15 mins sailing from it.
so every 20 mins we would have to divert pilots to defend A10 from the attack, when we could use them some where else if CV wasnt there. so when rooks lost p14 back to knits we took CV13
out of action, therefore keeping A10 fair safe from attacks, except from a11(long flight).
so with CV13 out of harms way and safe, we could attack other bases and not have to worry about A10 every 15 mins. Knits were told where it was by Rook Traitor over channel 1 several times. and ur 110 scouts got near it, and a group of low level P47s almost found it late sunday, but my A8 found them 1st :).
just a note, the rook who kept telling CV Pos on channel was was mad cause we didnt let him put it in play, so he even switched to bish to try and sink it.
CV 13 was held near p55/A56 most of the day sunday btw.
whels
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Thanks for the explanation, Whels. I appreciate the strategy, and it certainly was executed effectively. But I think both sides missed the fun and challenge of fighting that fleet.
Maybe, as some have suggested, there could be a time limit on fleet hiding just as there is on land-based target rejuvenation?
Playing hide and seek more than an hour or so for resources earned in battle seems to be a definite disincentive. It's challenging enough to have to kill the fleet after finding it.
If fleet hiding became more prevalent, would most Aces High players regard that as a positive or a negative?
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Originally posted by Halo
Thanks for the explanation, Whels. I appreciate the strategy, and it certainly was executed effectively. But I think both sides missed the fun and challenge of fighting that fleet.
Maybe, as some have suggested, there could be a time limit on fleet hiding just as there is on land-based target rejuvenation?
Playing hide and seek more than an hour or so for resources earned in battle seems to be a definite disincentive. It's challenging enough to have to kill the fleet after finding it.
If fleet hiding became more prevalent, would most Aces High players regard that as a positive or a negative?
Id rather have fleet returned to port after a givin time(4 hours or so) after it has been recaptured by the original owners. would make the enemy use , cause they will lose it no matter what.
no side note, if an enemy take the port from original owners, there is no time limi, cause its thier fleet originally. the time limit
would only come into effect when enemy own CV and port is
retaken by original owners.
whels
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Originally posted by whels
....
so with CV13 out of harms way and safe, we could attack other bases and not have to worry about A10 every 15 mins. Knits were told where it was by Rook Traitor over channel 1 several times. and ur 110 scouts got near it, and a group of low level P47s almost found it late sunday, but my A8 found them 1st :).
just a note, the rook who kept telling CV Pos on channel was was mad cause we didnt let him put it in play, so he even switched to bish to try and sink it.
CV 13 was held near p55/A56 most of the day sunday btw.
whels
The rook was me and I'll gladly do the same again.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
The rook was me and I'll gladly do the same again.
because u didnt get to command the fleet like u wanted, u betrayed ur country and ur squad by blabbin on channel 1. then u further disgraced ur squad by going bish and trying to sink the fleet. If i was ur CO ur donut would out like a lite.
oh and THANKS for the 6 easy kills while u tried to get the CV.
whels
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Just because someone doesn't agree with your strat, no reason to get bitter.
If someone wants to hide the fleet for strat purpose, fine, let them do it. If others feel this strat is stupid & want to tell where fleet is or switch sides to find or sink it, then Salute to them & fine, let them do it.
I think there is a lot of players that support both views & both options are allowed under the rules of the game. It is something that has been talked about numerous times. If HTC didn't want it to be part of the game, I am sure they would change it.
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it aint your fleet until you sink it. The ports are easy enough to capture so are the cvs.
For the most part they are in use somewhere when the port get captured. The dont move fast. The only way they get hid is because the country that captured the port didnt follow up with sinking the cv.
Why allow fleet hiding........lol your kidding right? that was the whole point behind cvs. Air strikes could come from anywhere and they were "hidin" as much as possible from the enemy. How about adding ship yards in stead of respawning the same cv let one be built every 2 hours with a max 2 or 3 per side. If one is sunk then 2 hours to be rebuilt. If its damaged then it has to rtb to the port for minor repairs (10 min) or the ship yard for major repairs (30 min). The ship yard could be a strat target, bomb it and no ships can be rebuilt until its repaired. Maybe we could have tenders to make minor repairs at sea. The way cv oops are run in the main now is more cheesy then sending a cv to a safe place.
I care nothing about cvs, they could be removed from the game it would be fine by me. Dont expect folks to just hand you an airfield.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by whels
because u didnt get to command the fleet like u wanted, u betrayed ur country and ur squad by blabbin on channel 1. then u further disgraced ur squad by going bish and trying to sink the fleet. If i was ur CO ur donut would out like a lite.
oh and THANKS for the 6 easy kills while u tried to get the CV.
whels
You're serious.... LOL...
Hello? It's a game. Disgrace doesn't enter into it.
So I didn't get the CV. No big deal. I enjoyed the attempts.
...and like I said. I'll do it again. I promise.
:D Kicked out of SBM... what a hoot... :D
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By hiding I'm assuming you mean moving off of the map ? I really am baffled how anyone could hide monstrous ships other than on the ocean floor . Just because it isn't being missused for shore bombardment parked right in front of your base on a silver platter doesn't mean that it is hidden. It's an airfield afterall, you should try to keep them out of harms way .
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In this particular case, the CV group was not moved off map. It was in a remote location, approximately 250 miles from it's home port.
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That is pretty lame, changing sides and giving away ship locations like that . Loose lips sink ships . In fact giving away positions on chan1 is a detriment to gameplay . You wouldn't think of doing it in a scenario would you ? So why would you do it in the ma ? Well I guess if you did it in the MA you probably would do it in a scen or CT. If it becomes a persistent problem I foresee HTC taking an interest .
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isn't that the other side of the map?
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If it's on the map it isn't hidden .
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Originally posted by BenDover
isn't that the other side of the map?
Yes.
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Originally posted by Samm
If it's on the map it isn't hidden .
50 miles away from the nearest occupied territory is effectively hidden.
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I'm sure it was in plain sight . Just becuase the enemy can't see it from any of their bases makes it hidden ? It's not supposed to be near any enemy bases . It's an aircraft carrier !
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Two grid squares from enemy territory ?! Thats right under their nose . Is this what people mean when they complain about "hidden" carrier groups ?
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Load up the NDISLES terrain. Locate P14 and then locate grid 6.15. Keep in mind that the Knights owned P14 while the Rooks controlled it's fleet, C13.
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When HT was online a week ago he was answering some questions about the loopsided numbers problem and he pretty much stated that defections like this will be much harder in the future...seems like your traitorous days are numbered :)
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They're not exactly easy now. Switching sides means that you stay with that team for a minimum of 10 hours.
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Switching sides isn't the problem if some bish/knight/rook player blurting out the location of their own carrier groups on chan 1 .
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I didnt read any thread past the first 1.....\
Just swicth sides when u about to leave and tell ur country where it is.... and why your there ..tell us where there tryn to sneak our bases..lolololol
simple...
Love BiGB
xoxo
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Lifes a BIATCH ! oh yeah btw it isnt fair that you fly higher than me or faster or can turn tighter than any plane i'm in so to make this game more enjoyable for me can you please slow down and descend to 1,000ft and fly straight.....cuz you know who would join a game where its hard to get a kill.
Anyways...hiding a fleet is the same as destroying it for your enemy, so whats the problem.
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First let me apologize to Sandman for the ugly tone of my earlier replies. This is a sensitive subject to me because I often enjoy launching carrierborne ops . But all to often I log on to see that some higher ranking numbnuts has suicidally parked the cv's 5 miles in front of enemy bases . When this is the case I will do one of two things; I will change to a country that isn't misusing their airfields, or I will log off and try again later. And when I see complaints of "cv hiding" they are often referring to any activity other than the aforementioned suicide runs.
Let me see if I have this right now that I've cooled . Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like Sandman was frustrated not becuase the cv was a safe distance from the enemy and they would not allow him to parade it around in front of the unfriendly shore batteries . But because it was moved so far away that it was basically taken out of the game completely, in effect it was "mothballed" (new dweeb term?). And players higher ranking than his self were enforcing this, and would not allow him to recommission it, not because they feared he would put it on a suicide course, but simply because rather than let anyone use it wisely, they decided to let no one use it at all . If this was the case I sympathize with Sandman completely. Not sure if I would've erupted with it's location on channel one but I probably would've changed country .
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Thanx Samm.
I'm with ya... parking the CV within range of the shore batteries or the near endless stream of torpedo attackers makes no sense.
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speaking of torpedos
any one used ju88s with torps in formations, quite effective, but still suicide runs, and a more spread out formation would be better