Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: gofaster on July 01, 2002, 01:48:05 PM
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Which version of the P-47 in Aces High is the better dogfighter? They all seem to have the same performance according to the charts. Do they all fly the same?
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prety much. The D30 has more HP under WEP. Some claim the D11 turns better, and it may feel a little less forgiving in a stall but it aint enough to matter IMO. The D25 is also a good jabo ride like the D30 but I hate the fixed rocket rails.
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You don't fly a P47 with a stick, you fly a P47 with your mind. Knowing which one is the best turnfighter will cloud your ability to do so.
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The p47 that has 6 guns and low ammo load over the p47 with 8 guns and 1700 rounds is the better dogfighter....
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
You don't fly a P47 with a stick, you fly a P47 with your mind. Knowing which one is the best turnfighter will cloud your ability to do so.
Frenchy does his best thinking in the D11 :D
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Originally posted by gofaster
Which version of the P-47 in Aces High is the better dogfighter?
The one Drex is flying.
eskimo
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Stablity wise the D-11 rules the air over the Jug's
D-30 is a perfect Jabo Two 1k lbs 1 500, and 10 rockets!!!
D-25 is about as unstable as an F-4U IMO.
Speed wise I don't see the difference between the D-11 and D-30...at slow speeds the D-11 will out turn a D-30 hands down with the right pilot.
On top of that the D-30 dive flaps are just as useless as the PJ's
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D11 is stable and D25 isnt? I think you have your Jugs mixed :)
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D11 is stable and D25 isnt? I think you have your Jugs mixed
Why did they add a tail filet on the D30 and later models then?:p
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Why did they add a tail filet on the D30 and later models then?:p
McDonald's McJug Filet? Fish on the go whenever you want it. :rolleyes:;)
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Frenchy's got it right.
Many pilots transitioning from the razorback jug to the new P-47D-25 said the bubbletop was less "stable" in turns, compared to the razorbacks. I think what they meant by this was that bubbletop tended to yaw a little bit more in turns; it was a little bit trickier for the pilot to make good coordinated turns. Adding the dorsal fillet (like on the D-30) corrected this instability. I don't think this is modelled in AH.
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Another reason for the dorsal filet was a disturbing tendency for the plane to enter a high speed stall at higher speeds, such as diving and recovery from dives.
The Jug pilot I talked to said they lost a guy that way, no one could figure it out, so they went and "recreated" the man's last known actions......
When "my" Jug driver started to pull out from a dive, the Jug immediately flipped over onto it's back with no warning. He said he tried it again, and the plane always flipped to the left, absolutely no warning at all. His CO went up and tried it, same result. Mind you, they were in Jugs in clean trim, not loaded to the gills with ordnance. That's probably the only reason they survived and the other guy didn't.
To cut to the chase, their findings went up the chain of command, a Republic field rep was notified, and the dorsal filet "fix" was added.
FWIW, he said his D-20 was retrofitted with the filet after they found out what was wrong, as were all other bubble-top Jugs prior to the D-30's factory build with the filet.
I kinda doubted his story when he told it to me, then he showed me several pics of his plane. You could see the D-20 minus the mod, and the modified version of the same plane. He said after the filet was added, the plane was rock solid in dive recoveries.
Trivial info, I know, but this discussion got me to looking at my notes on him. Sorry to butt in..........
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Hi Sancho,
>Many pilots transitioning from the razorback jug to the new P-47D-25 said the bubbletop was less "stable" in turns, compared to the razorbacks.
Here are some comments from Grumman test pilot Corky Meyer who flow a P-47M during the 1944 Fighter Conference:
"We had all been warned by Republic officials not to use large rudder deflections under 200mph in either the clean or the landing configurations because of major directional instabilities that had just been noted by Republic test pilots after the bubble conopy had been installed. The original 'razor back'-type canopy on earlier P-47s did not have this quirk. Very gingerly testing yaw maneuvers below 200mph, I did notice a large reduction iof rudder forces that thended to be over-balanced when moving the rudder away from neutral in either direction. I stopped testing yaw as soon as this phenomenon started and before I entered the dangerous rudder-force over-balance zone. I wasn't going to be a test pilot for Republic! It wasn't paying me. While I tested this kind of maneuver, it became clear to me that the P-47M wasn't just 'a bit pregnant' with this problem!"
Corky Meyer was specially interested in this topic as the new XF8F displayed the same kind of instabilty problem.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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It seems to me that the D-11 turns better too. I used the D-11 almost exclusively one tour and when I jumped from the D-11 to a D-25, I noticed a difference. It seemed the D-25 stalled sooner in low speed turns and loops.
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Yeah Dingo.. I agree. The 11 runs circles around the other counter parts...There is a noticeable difference between the 25 & 30 as well..maybe due to those non-working dive flaps..Or those rocket tubes on the 25's wings..
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HoHun,
Where did you find that quote??
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Hi F4UDOA,
>Where did you find that quote??
Flight Jornal Special "WWII Fighters", Winter 2000 issue.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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The P47 is awesome, and flown with a wingman (like OnePunch) its deadly. At high altitude this plane rules the sky. I prefer the d11 and the d30 depending on the job im gonna do. d30 for jabo and d11 for fighting. If you have experience in flying the 190's at high alt, the transition to the p47 should be fairly easy.
If you could sit in the "middle" of the d11 I would love it even more, but thats the price of realism. :cool:
Did any of the "Razorbacks" models have a "centered" cockpit ??
to Republic, Alexander Kartveli and HT for including it, and Ii hope we get more versions of it
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How about this model that was tested on carrier :)
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I don't envy the fish there, getting a p-47 dropped on their head like a dept charge...
:D
Bozon
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P-47 is for destroying enmy fghtrs. I prefer the D-25 for the bubble and dark paint. I usually load half fuel and the belly tank.
Jugs need firepower. Take eight guns with maximum ammunition and an eager trigger finger.
Whenever you meet the enemy, you should be diving, for this is what jugs do.
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D-11
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D-30 dive flaps are not dive brakes and do nothing to slow you down. They were added to change the flow of high Mach airflow that was encountered in a dive and was causing the elavator to (lock up) compress. It is my understanding the were also on the later P-38's for the same reason.
They will allow you to retain control at a higer speed speed in a dive (D-30 will out dive other jugs ... try it)
They will not act as dive brakes that you see on dive bombers.
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It also makes it alot more stable in dives
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Nilsen2,
The P-47 was was never tested on a carrier. It was transported to the pacific on the but never tested by the Navy. The P-51B and D were tested as well as the P-39 but no P-47's.
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you are wrong about that.. I found a pic where you see a P47 taking off from a CV.
Ill look for it and post it
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See this link:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/p47images.html
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another
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They were not being tested for carrier service, that is how they were delivered to bases in the Pacific. The aircraft were loaded on the carrier at a port, transported near to the airstrip they would be based at, then flown off the carrier to the new base.
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P-47s often flew off carriers into combat missions. They dropped bombs, strafed a little, then landed at newly captured airfields near the fighting. I'm pretty sure they never landed on CVs, but they definitely took off from them.
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correct Sancho... Saw a dok on Discovery where they took off from cv and landed on a makeshift airfield somewhere in the pacific
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Originally posted by Jack55
P-47 is for destroying enmy fghtrs. I prefer the D-25 for the bubble and dark paint. I usually load half fuel and the belly tank.
Jugs need firepower. Take eight guns with maximum ammunition and an eager trigger finger.
Whenever you meet the enemy, you should be diving, for this is what jugs do.
Diving at a merge will generally get you killed quickly. Much better to dive gently before you merge and hide your energy advantage in speed. At the merge, you almost always want to be going UP as you pass. Any time you merge diving, you are giving up big chunks of your energy advantage as you overshoot below the enemy. That's a bad idea in a Jug. :) Better to save that fantastic dive performance for when you've exploded your enemy and need to escape from that higher incoming bogey.
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What fantastic dive performance?
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aggree frenchy....dive performance is far from fantastic..its good..not great
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Scootter,
The dive flaps added a lot of drag. In the case of the P-47 and at speed mach 0.72 the drag (Cd) raised from 0.03 to 0.048 with dive flaps. In the case of the P-38 there was pretty similar drag rise. One of the main functions of the dive flaps was to keep the plane out of trouble by adding a lot of drag at high speeds. At low speeds the drag rise was less but still signifiqant.
gripen
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Originally posted by Lephturn
Diving at a merge will generally get you killed quickly. Much better to dive gently before you merge and hide your energy advantage in speed. At the merge, you almost always want to be going UP as you pass. Any time you merge diving, you are giving up big chunks of your energy advantage as you overshoot below the enemy. That's a bad idea in a Jug. :) Better to save that fantastic dive performance for when you've exploded your enemy and need to escape from that higher incoming bogey.
I meant have such a substantial altitude advantage to require a dive to be in gun range.
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Thanks for the info, gentlemen. I've only flown the P-47s 5 times and got killed stupidly each time. I figured some things just weren't meant to be, so once I get a little more combat experience, I'll revisit the Jug. I'm still gunshy from the horrible flight model it had on "Air Warrior" many moons ago, and am having trouble accepting it as a viable fighter. On the other hand, I was able to take a P-40 out and bag a couple of kills over the weekend. Go figure.