Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: whels on July 03, 2002, 02:16:13 PM
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MIL:
TEMPEST 372
LA-7 358
F4U-4 358
TYPHOON 355
YAK9-U 355
P-51D 354
F4U-1 350
P-51B 347
190D-9 346
F4U-1D 343
F4U-1C 342
109G-10 337
LA-5 336
P-38L 333
P-47D-11 333
SPIT-14 332
TA-152 332
P-47D-25 329
P-47D-30 329
190A-8 327
YAK9-T 327
190F-8 326
190A-5 326
MOSQ 325
C205 321
109G-2 320
F6F-5 320
109G-6 317
N1K2 313
109F-4 310
SPIT IX 310
C202 307
KI-61 305
110-G2 305
SEAFIRE 293
SPIT V 293
110-4b 290
FM2 290
A6M5 288
F4F 278
P40B 275
A6M2 275
P40E 276
HURR IIC 262
HURR IID 253
HURR I 253
WEP:
TEMPEST 386
LA-7 380
F4U-4 378
190D-9 375
TYPHOON 370
P-51D 367
109G-10 366
TA-152 361
SPIT-14 358
F4U-1 358
P-51B 358
F4U-1D 357
F4U-1C 356
LA-5 356
YAK9-U 355
190A-8 349
190F-8 349
P-38L 344
P-47D-11 344
P-47D-25 340
P-47D-30 340
109G-2 340
190A-5 339
MOSQ 338
YAK9-T 336
109G-6 336
109F-4 332
C205 331
F6F-5 330
N1K2 324
SPIT IX 319
110-G2 316
C202 315
KI-61 313
SEAFIRE 302
SPIT V 302
110-4B 300
FM2 297
P40E 297
109E-4 292
SPIT I 291
A6M5 288
F4F 275 no wep
A6M2 275 NO WEP
P40B 275
HURR IIC 273
HURR IID 265
HURR I 261
whels
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WOW thk u very much
BTW what about the planes from 1.09? ;)
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Originally posted by Duedel
WOW thk u very much
BTW what about the planes from 1.09? ;)
thanks, cut n pasted wrong 1. now corrected.
whels
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La-7 is only 6mph slower than a tempest on the deck, PERK IT
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Spit14 is slower than my ride (p47d11).....NICE :D I'll have to go kill some now
:D
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bump to top
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and the 262?..where is 262?
oORKAo
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Originally posted by whels
MIL:
TEMPEST 372
LA-7 358
F4U-4 358
TYPHOON 355
YAK9-U 355
P-51D 354
F4U-1 350
P-51B 347
190D-9 346
F4U-1D 343
F4U-1C 342
109G-10 337
LA-5 336
P-38L 333
P-47D-11 333
SPIT-14 332
TA-152 332
P-47D-25 329
P-47D-30 329
190A-8 327
YAK9-T 327
190F-8 326
190A-5 326
MOSQ 325
C205 321
109G-2 320
F6F-5 320
109G-6 317
N1K2 313
109F-4 310
SPIT IX 310
C202 307
KI-61 305
110-G2 305
SEAFIRE 293
SPIT V 293
110-4b 290
FM2 290
A6M5 288
F4F 278
P40B 275
A6M2 275
P40E 276
HURR IIC 262
HURR IID 253
HURR I 253
WEP:
TEMPEST 386
LA-7 380
F4U-4 378
190D-9 375
TYPHOON 370
P-51D 367
109G-10 366
TA-152 361
SPIT-14 358
F4U-1 358
P-51B 358
F4U-1D 357
F4U-1C 356
LA-5 356
YAK9-U 355
190A-8 349
190F-8 349
P-38L 344
P-47D-11 344
P-47D-25 340
P-47D-30 340
109G-2 340
190A-5 339
MOSQ 338
YAK9-T 336
109G-6 336
109F-4 332
C205 331
F6F-5 330
N1K2 324
SPIT IX 319
110-G2 316
C202 315
KI-61 313
SEAFIRE 302
SPIT V 302
110-4B 300
FM2 297
P40E 297
109E-4 292
SPIT I 291
A6M5 288
F4F 275 no wep
A6M2 275 NO WEP
P40B 275
HURR IIC 273
HURR IID 265
HURR I 261
whels
BUMP
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I like how both the Dora and the Ta-152 jump up about 5 or 6 places when you add WEP. This might be a worthy little print-out to tape to the side of my monitor.
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Very nice Whels. Thank you for all the work.
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Hehe Whels
where is the Über 109 E4? :)
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Nilsen, good luck trying to catch a spit 14..
a 2k - 3k climb at 300+ ias good luck...
spit 14 is extremely fast at 10k and gets faster with alt.....
dont under estimate that plane...
in a 1 vs 1 nothing beats the spit 14... even my beloved g10 in a 1 vs 1 is just outclassed.
the only thing a enemy can do is maybe run from it...
2 cents
DoctorYo
PS thanks for the speed charts, if you got the time do 1.5k-3k climbs and measure the speed of the aircraft. That will dispel any illusions about aircraft proformance.
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
in a 1 vs 1 nothing beats the spit 14... even my beloved g10 in a 1 vs 1 is just outclassed.
the only thing a enemy can do is maybe run from it...
DoctorYo
ur kidding? i find the g10 a very good matchup to the spit14. it could go either way.
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keep the speed up to about 300mph do a low g 360
do the same in spit 14 and tell me what you think...
youll notice the e state of the spit is much better...
Now think of the tactics you can get into with a highspeed energy fight.
low alt speed = g10
above 10k = near even
turn - spit14 all alts...
climb - spit14 , not by much...
no overspeed or airlon lock with spit... (very important) Spit can exploit this when in trouble...
better over the nose view - Spit 14
better firepower - spit 14
fuel - spit 14....
Only thing the g10 has going for it is its Rudder ( my personal favorite) and its Wep endurance.
Im telling you most people dont know what thier doing in the thing and fly it like a turn and burner..
I say fly it like a mustang that can stall fight....
its untouchable when flown like that.. very fun aircraft.. lots of options in the vert and stall fighting in a pinch..
look im biased to the g10 I like the aircraft alot. (First aircraft i flew in AH since beta, I still remember my first kill in this game, "Moss" ) but the spit14 outclasses it bad..
Thats all im saying
DoctorYO
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Originally posted by Soviet
La-7 is only 6mph slower than a tempest on the deck, PERK IT
"1945
By the end of hostilities on the Russian/German front over 3500 La-7 had been sent to front line guards units and over 5000 had been produced in total....
...the 3 Beresin cannon were added to the La-7 increasing fire power considerably, however only 368 of these fighters saw front line action."
This comes up often. In AH the LA7 is the 2nd highest ranked of all planes this tour for kills and 3rd most ranked for deaths. Considering the numbers produced - especially the 3 cannon verion - AH really does have a bunch of LA7's in the air.
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Let me also point out that unless the acceleration of each of these planes are fixed, the top speed is a useless piece of data.
Great, the Dora, La-7, and Tempests are speed demons. But how long does it take for them to get to that speed. The Dora and the TA-152's top speed was drag limited. With WEP on, both could get to top speed in 2 minutes flat. The 152 was known for it's amazing accleration rates above 15000 ft at cruise. The Tempest was the same - speed demon low on the ground and could accelerate like nothing you've ever seen.
IMHO, until acceleration rates are fixed, top speeds are useless.
:rolleyes:
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as I thought the boosting system on these planes was only really effective at higher altitudes....
-Blogs
Originally posted by Fancy
I like how both the Dora and the Ta-152 jump up about 5 or 6 places when you add WEP. This might be a worthy little print-out to tape to the side of my monitor.
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"The Dora and the TA-152's top speed was drag limited."
Isn't top speed drag limited for all planes?
Which boosting system? MW50 was only useful BELOW 6km.
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Mister Fork,
Before you make a statement like "acceleration is wrong", you should really show test some numbers. You claim things like "top speed in 2 minutes flat", though I have no idea where you got those values from. Wherever you got them, it would have been smart to show how the model was wrong.
Anyway, all that said, if you'd run some tests you would be surprised to find that you aren't far off. I have the La7 numbers (I did run the tests) and here you go.
From a start (air-start, not ground start) at 137mph (power-off stall slight stall). Light fuel, sea-level:
La7 gets to 90% of top speed in 1 minute (137mph-> 340mph)
La7 gets to 98.5% of top speed in 2 minutes (137mph-> 373mph)
The last 5mph or so takes another 30 seconds or so to achieve.
You can claim you want the start point to be slower, but the La7 puts on over 8mph/second at low speed, and that's as low as my tests allowed so might be better. I have other test numbers for planes like the Mossie too, and at different altitudes but maybe you should take the time to test them before making a statement like you did in your post.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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bump
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Originally posted by whels
MIL:
TEMPEST 372
LA-7 358
F4U-4 358
TYPHOON 355
YAK9-U 355
P-51D 354
F4U-1 350
P-51B 347
190D-9 346
F4U-1D 343
F4U-1C 342
109G-10 337
LA-5 336
P-38L 333
P-47D-11 333
SPIT-14 332
TA-152 332
P-47D-25 329
P-47D-30 329
190A-8 327
YAK9-T 327
190F-8 326
190A-5 326
MOSQ 325
C205 321
109G-2 320
F6F-5 320
109G-6 317
N1K2 313
109F-4 310
SPIT IX 310
C202 307
KI-61 305
110-G2 305
SEAFIRE 293
SPIT V 293
110-4b 290
FM2 290
A6M5 288
F4F 278
P40B 275
A6M2 275
P40E 276
HURR IIC 262
HURR IID 253
HURR I 253
WEP:
TEMPEST 386
LA-7 380
F4U-4 378
190D-9 375
TYPHOON 370
P-51D 367
109G-10 366
TA-152 361
SPIT-14 358
F4U-1 358
P-51B 358
F4U-1D 357
F4U-1C 356
LA-5 356
YAK9-U 355
190A-8 349
190F-8 349
P-38L 344
P-47D-11 344
P-47D-25 340
P-47D-30 340
109G-2 340
190A-5 339
MOSQ 338
YAK9-T 336
109G-6 336
109F-4 332
C205 331
F6F-5 330
N1K2 324
SPIT IX 319
110-G2 316
C202 315
KI-61 313
SEAFIRE 302
SPIT V 302
110-4B 300
FM2 297
P40E 297
109E-4 292
SPIT I 291
A6M5 288
F4F 275 no wep
A6M2 275 NO WEP
P40B 275
HURR IIC 273
HURR IID 265
HURR I 261
whels
bump
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TY Whels, I make great use of this chart from time to time.:)
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Whels,
I could never figure out how the F4F (since it has no WEP), would measure two different speeds. You had it at military at 278 and at WEP (well, no wep in this case) at 275?
thanks, I've always found this post useful and have used it for my own reference a number of times (or to test my own numbers).
-Soda
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Originally posted by Soda
Whels,
I could never figure out how the F4F (since it has no WEP), would measure two different speeds. You had it at military at 278 and at WEP (well, no wep in this case) at 275?
thanks, I've always found this post useful and have used it for my own reference a number of times (or to test my own numbers).
-Soda
i maybe have miss typed 1 or the other speed. before the new film viewer it was a close guess on the anolog dial what the speed was.
i would like to make a list going from OTD up to 35k at 5k increases, but its huge task with so many planes.
Whels
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I had done a couple of such test with a few planes using 100ft increments through "important" areas of their flight model as based on what I could see from the aircraft charts on the help pages. What I had looked at were basically the zones in the flight envelope where speeds peaked to find the peak speed/altitude. I also had to make some estimates before the new film viewer arrived.
I had a chart somewhere were I listed these, basically a sea-level speed, a low (alt) cruise speed, and a high (alt) cruise speed. I used it to help shorten cruise times mostly and to make sure I flew aircraft in "good performance zones".
For example
Typhoon
low cruise: 385@8.1K
high cruise: 400@19K
sea-level: 370/355 (WEP/no)
top speed: 405@18K (WEP)
I think I had this info for basically every aircraft in AH, at least estimates.
-Soda
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P40b only 275mph?!?!
Is that right?
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another thing
wasnt the A6m2 faster then the wildcat?
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bump
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Got it Whels - Thanks!
I didn't do too bad reading the charts - less than 5mph in many cases...
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Whels
For comparison, My "Soviet Air Force Fighter Colours" lists the stats as:
La-5FN (1943, standard) OTD 356, 394 @ 19,500ft, 4.6 min to 16,500ft
La-7 (1944 and 1945) OTD 381, 420 @ 20,200ft, 4.2 min to 16,500ft
Yak-9U ( early ) OTD 345, 401 @ 16,400ft, 4.8 min to 16,400
Yak-9U (1945) OTD 361, 422 @ 16,400, 4.1 min to 16, 400
and the one we *really* need
Yak-3U OTD 374, 438 @ 19,250, 3.9 min to 16,400
It makes no reference to WEP, I'll have to search the text.
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None of those speeds are applicable now. Not only are they from AH1 (1.10 no less!) but changes have been made along the way, and especially with the change to AH2, nothing flies like it did before. That includes speed, in my book. They have to be tested one by one before you can vouch for them in AH2.
I can vouch for the SpitV speeds. They are accurate (did an offline test not long ago, 293/303 is about what I got).
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Hey whels
You said that you wanted to take it up to 35k, 5k at a time.
You might want to take a look at this link
http://www.netaces.org/ahplanes/comparisons/speed-climb.xls
I compared your 0k data with the 0k data in the above and most are very close (See Below).
So if you just want the data you can get it there, but if your a sic Bstard like me you will probably want to do it yourself.
Also I got board here at work and made you data into some spread sheets and stuff, I would like to post it on my web page (it came out quite well) and as you did all the hard work I thought i should ask you before I use it
Mussie
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Difference in recorded speeds for whels and netaces.
If its blank one or the other did not have the data
Plane Mil WEP
109E-4 -2
109F-4 -1 -1
109G-10 -1 -2
109G-2 -2 -2
109G-6 -1 -2
110-4b 0 -1
110-G2 -7 -6
190A-5 -1 -2
190A-8 0 -2
190D-9 -1 -2
190F-8 -2 -2
A6M2 no wep 6
A6M5 no wep -4
C202 -1 -2
C205 -2 -1
F4F no wep -6
F4U-1 -1 -1
F4U-1C
F4U-1D -1 0
F4U-4 -2 -1
F6F-5 -1 -1
FM2 -5 -2
HURR I -1 -1
HURR IIC -1 -3
HURR IID -10 -11
KI-61 -2 -3
LA-5 3 -2
LA-7 -1 -1
MOSQ 2 1
N1K2 -3 -3
P-38L 0 -1
P40B no wep -4
P40E -7 -2
P-47D-11 -1 -2
P-47D-25 -2 -2
P-47D-30 -2 -4
P-51B -2 -1
P-51D -2 -1
SEAFIRE
SPIT I -2
SPIT IX 16 15
SPIT V -19 -19
SPIT-14 -2 -4
TA-152 -1 -2
TEMPEST -2 -3
TYPHOON -1 -1
YAK9-T -1 -2
YAK9-U -2 -2
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The data differences did not post so well but you get the idea
Mussie
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Originally posted by mussie
The data differences did not post so well but you get the idea
Mussie
Thanks, go ahead and use the data, no prob here.
for the most part the speeds i posted were done before
the e6b came out i had to zoom in on speedmeter and guess
the speed the anolog needle was sitting on. so i might have missed a couple mph here/there.
some speeds have changed for AH2, but this chart still gives u the
general idea how fast u are compaired.
whels
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Some accel reference numbers:
Time to speed at sea level after take off (all 50% fuel)
Tempest 1:57 mins to 375 mph (max speed 387)
La7 2:23 mins to 375 mph (max speed 380)
SpitXIV 2:53 mins to 358 mph
P47D40 3:16 mins to 342 mph
Typhoon 3:21 mins to 370 mph
F4U4 3:25 mins to 374 mph
109G10 (1x20) 3:37 mins for 367 mph
190D9 3:37 mins for 375 mph
Ta152 3:41 mins for 361 mph
190A5 (2x20) 3:45 mins for 340 mph
190A8 (2x20) 3:52 mins for 350 mph
190F8 4:08 mins for 349 mph
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Originally posted by Flyboy
another thing
wasnt the A6m2 faster then the wildcat?
Nope. A6m2 was NOT faster than the wildcat. According to my source (jane's) the a6m2 max speed was 332 mph at 15000 ft, and the f4f-3 had a top speed of 330 mph at 20000 feet. That shows a vanishingly small advantage for the zeke, but doesn't show what the sea level, etc. speeds are. Wildcat dove better, turned almost as fast, had a similar turn radius, and had better high speed controls. Zeke turned faster, had heavier armament, was lighter, and climbed better.
Just like they do here, near as I can tell.
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You mean the FM-2 rshubert?
I think the F4F would have had a tough time with the Zeke as US Pilots remember it.
The tactical comparision between the FM-2 and Zeke 52 shows the FM-2 held a small speed advantage at sea level but got left behind the higher you went.
Turn radius was similar with the Zeke having the advantage.
Climb advantage trades off as well.
All the best,
Crumpp
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The Zeke is told to have had very bad roll rates at speeds, locking up at some 250 mph more or less. The F4F had the advantage there.
I remember Pyro trying to find some documented data about this, and I went looking also, but found none.
Anybody?????
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WTG Whels.
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The Zeke is told to have had very bad roll rates at speeds, locking up at some 250 mph more or less. The F4F had the advantage there.
Interesting, Angus. Here is what the Navy Test says:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/503_1117663335_fm2_zekeroll.jpg)
I wonder what the condition of the Zeke was in the document you refer too?
All the best,
Crumpp