Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dedalu on July 03, 2002, 07:53:35 PM
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This pizza map sucks! It's like a playground, or fantasy island... AND IT ISN'T HISTORICAL IN ANY FORM! I'm not playing packman! I'm playing a IIWW based game!
This may be the end of AH, like version III in Warbirds: a lot of kids coming and a lot of veterans poping out.
I remember one post about that map months ago... and now I know: that wasn't a joke.
I want serious maps back!
Cya.
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Originally posted by dedalu
I'm playing a IIWW based game!
Now we know what the problem is. Ya see, AH is a WWII based game. You best look elsewhere for your IIWW sim.
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sounds like you need a home, hmm, let's call it...
Combat Theatre.
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I don't really like the map either... it has to much detail, making things hard to see. Is there any way I can "dumb" the detail down a bit?
Other than that I would like to thank who ever for adding the P-40 :D
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Originally posted by dedalu
This pizza map sucks! It's like a playground, or fantasy island... AND IT ISN'T HISTORICAL IN ANY FORM! I'm not playing packman! I'm playing a IIWW based game!
This may be the end of AH, like version III in Warbirds: a lot of kids coming and a lot of veterans poping out.
I remember one post about that map months ago... and now I know: that wasn't a joke.
I want serious maps back!
Cya.
And you're OK with P-51s fighting Spitfires?
Everyone flying as lone wolves?
10 Paratroopers capturing a town and airfield?
Etc. Etc. Etc...
You may be happier in the CT, but I'm sure that you will find much to whine about in there too.
eskimo
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Originally posted by FT Max
I don't really like the map either... it has to much detail, making things hard to see. Is there any way I can "dumb" the detail down a bit?
Have you tried using the "Insert" and "Delete" keys to zoom in on the map? Once you pick your field, zoom in and you'll find it easier to read.
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my main problem with the map is canyons that are just crazy, if your going to have canyons they can't be these uber grandcanyon dwarfing things; not many places on earth even come close to this. i'll proably be in ct once it's up with 1.10 .. can't wqait for a burma set :) zeke vs p40 how classic :rolleyes:
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I like it. I think this is what you gangbanging ho artists need. Some good separation.
Those canyons are fantastic though, urchin and I had a little tangle in one with matching p40s. kudos to slartibartfasttetrapoopaline.
erg
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we need less fields than that ?and the map to be a little smaller.
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Do you think P-51D's attacking B-17's is historical?
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I agree that we had out grown the size of Mindano, Baltic, and NDIsles but we went from 75, 69,63 bases to 255 bases. This is a 240% increase ... my personal opinion is that its too many bases. I think a map of say 150 bases would be better.
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Monkey,flying monkeys. :eek:
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Doesn't work that way guys.
You have 64 mile maps, 128, and 256. (Which is what we used to have)
We had obviously outgrown those so HT made the logical move to a 512 mile map.
Yes its big, big enough to have lots of room.
Big enough to have 16 furballs going on at once.
Big enough that its hard to defend, so it puts the emphasis back on sneak attacks. Small 2, 3, 4 & 5 man organised runs to capture a field.
Don't freak out yet, give it a honest try.
Plus more maps are coming.
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changes mind on respose.
P.S. (I will say Channel 1 needs assuredly some policing, there are few guys there who seem to have only one purpose in mind and that is to derail 1.10 launch. I am not sure newbies need deal with that. If HiTech had been online a bit ago couple guys would have been booted, and rightfully so.)
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The physical size of the map doesn't bother me (512). Its the simple fact that there are so many bases. If there were less bases in the same physical space I think it would be better. If I understand you correctly we went from a 256 mile map to 512 map .. 100% increase .. bases on this map though increased by 240%. My two cents is simply 512 mile map but with 150 - 175 bases instead of 255.
I will keep an open mind on all of this .. just putting in my two cents. And as always will adapt and keep playing. Although I will say that I still really don't like each country being divided into three unconnected parts.
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dedalu,
The old main arena maps were no more realistic than the pizza map is. If historical realism is what you are looking for in a game, then you should definately check out the combat theater. As new equipment is introduced into the game the historical setups in there become more and more accurate.
The main arena, on the other hand, is, always has been, and I think always should be a strategy game that happens to use WWII equipment, rather than a realistic representation of the action in WWII. In fact, the symmetrical nature of the pizza map makes it perfect for the style of game play in the main arena, IMHO.
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dedalu,
Despite the belittling posts that your comments have generated, I tend to agree with your view. Although I'm not a forum dweller and have better things to do with my time than post hundreds of messages, I felt the need to voice my displeasure over this release. To me, it gives evidence that the game is moving more towards the arcade/fantasy genre of games and away from the historical simulation that it had a chance of becoming.
While it wasn't precisely tied to history as has been pointed out on this thread, it was closer than what we have now. So lets see what we've gained: airshow smoke (great for kids), bomber trios that will just leave everyone flying CAP over their bases to rack up the perk points (again, great for kids with no patience), a map that bears little resemblance to any land mass in the known universe, a bomb site that needs calibration (as if getting to the target wasn't hard enough)..just what I need, another learning curve to navigate.
To those who expressed glee that bomber pilots have finally gotten their due, consider this: 4 pilots in trio B-17's equals 12 bomb loads of eggs for your bases. If they do get through and manage to calibrate their sites (all the while getting vulched over the target because they must now spend more time away from their defensive armament), the target will be virtually wiped off the map. And of course, the ability of one pilot to lift off 3 bombers undermines what was one of the games challenges: organizing support for missions. Now one pilot can do three times the damage...all by himself. Great.
The only thing about this change that I welcome is the additional planes. And so I have to ask myself, does this minute enhancement (IMO) justify the aggravating aspects that have been introduced with this release? I'm not sure yet.
For my money, I have always wanted AH to have real countries instead of this PC chess mataphor. And along with the real countries, to have restricted planes sets. Vals for Japan and Bf109's only for Germany, and the like. That is something that Fighter Ace got right.
Anyway, I figure I'll give it a while and see what happens, although I'm not optimistic. In the meantime, I'm going to give the new version of Fighter Ace a try and I'll take a look at World War II online. And when Battlefield: 1942 comes out, I'll give that one a test drive as well.
And so there it is in a nutshell. This release hasn't prompted glee or accolades, at least from me and some others. Rather, it has prompted me and other players, who were formerly content with AH, to explore other alternatives for our entertainment dollars...and that can't be good for the game.
Just my thoughts...for those who think.
- David
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ded, give it a rest. The multi-zone system is at its first step.
You can't expect a baby to run a 42 kilometer marathon, you know :)
IMHO, the zone idea is great, but it is quite different from what a lot of people expected it would be. I for one, thought larger maps sort of meant 'extended' frontlines - larger frontlines than before - so it would spread out fights a little. I never expected three multiple zones would be completely mixed up, having so many fronts that planning a consitant and straight forward strategy is nearly impossible.
The 'all sides equal' factor in the pizza map I like. No 'south east corners' here. I trust the new maps if employed in AH, would develop from the results of these various experimentations.
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I think I'll fly it a while before I make a decision.
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^^^^^^^^
who the hell are all these guys?
wtf is there to whine about? The only thing anybody has to worry about is the freakin fight right in front of him. The size of the map has jack to do with yer inability to read it. RTFM.
sheesh.
Why is it every time there's a new revision, 6 gazzilion mouthy lil dipshits we never ever see in a arena (or ever spend a damn dime on a subscription) pop in on channel 1 or this BBS with a dissertation on whats wrong with the way the rest of us enjoy our gawdamned game?
be gone with yah, yah worthless lil turds!
you may all now return to yer bogus squeak session.
btw, where in hell did the AK's put the anchovies? I wanna bomb something historic and meaningful.
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Gameplay wise its great S! AKs
bug at 67 to 66 spawn tho. GV spawn on a steep hill (canyon wall?) and u tumble down 4k feet and die ;)
great other then that.........
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i say STFU! if you dont like it dont play.
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Historical afficiandos really need to concentrate on making the CT a better experience. The MA is really just about pure fun. Thats the way it is, July 3rd, 2002.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
^^^^^^^^
who the hell are all these guys?
Hello, I'm dedalu. And I pay monthly fees like you and all other guys.
Cya.
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why dont we go to 180 fields,put a map room at HQ and the way to win is to capute an HQ have the pizza map and put it in the middle of 4 large friendly fields.
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Originally posted by Gryffin
The old main arena maps were no more realistic than the pizza
Yes... but pizza map is more unrealistic than other maps! And break all limits of a sim game.
then you should definately check out the combat theater. As new
I love CT, but I never found more than 30 players on there.
think always should be a strategy game that happens to use WWII equipment, rather than a realistic representation of the action in WWII.
I agree. But...
In fact, the symmetrical nature of the pizza map makes it perfect for the style of game play in the main arena, IMHO.
What kind of strategy can you use in a map where all flanks have backdoors?
Cya.
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Zzz
1.10 ain't 24hrs old and we get this complaining ...
try FAIII, I hear they have real small maps, great FM and everything is historically accurate <- and you'd save your parents $5 a month
bye bye
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For those that are having an issue with the canyons try this. Grab a zeek and go mix it up in the canyon. I never fly zeeks but tonight I figured the close quarters of the canyon was a perfect spot for it. Even with the warps I had the time of my life. I can see the zeek canyon patrol becoming part of my ritual.
Avid
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what eagler and hangtime said
AND ..if you think one guy with 3 B17's is going to WIPE OUT A BASE, you should try it before you talk
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
The physical size of the map doesn't bother me (512). Its the simple fact that there are so many bases. If there were less bases in the same physical space I think it would be better. If I understand you correctly we went from a 256 mile map to 512 map .. 100% increase .. bases on this map though increased by 240%. My two cents is simply 512 mile map but with 150 - 175 bases instead of 255.
I will keep an open mind on all of this .. just putting in my two cents. And as always will adapt and keep playing. Although I will say that I still really don't like each country being divided into three unconnected parts.
Actually the total AREA went up 4 times not 100%
Look at it going from a 1 x 1 size map to a 2 x 2 size map.
That is 1 square mile to 4 square miles - 400% not 100%
So the number of base should have gone up 4 times.
If the old maps had 70_ bases ( Fields and Behicle ) then the new larger map should have close to 300 !
Jordi
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Also try a canyon patrol in a Val. It's a blast. :cool:
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I think the new terrain is pretty awsome. It's nice to see a large map like this with lots of different terrain changes. IMHO I got sick of the same old stuff going on in the same old maps. I had a fun time taking GV's to a Port. You spawn at the top of this big ol cliff, then drive down it about 1k decent I think. Very easy to reach Nascar speeds, even in a Ostwind, I ended up flipping it nose over end at over 100. Give it all a chance before ya bash it, could miss out on a lot of fun!!
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I'm sorry but the new map gets the big thumbs down from me.
First, it is to big. Sure maybe the game is making room but scaling 4x immediately results in a very thin arena. It took me some time when logging in to figure out where the fights are. The MA now resembles to CT with its sparsely populated areas.
Secondly, it is to high. Overall the terrain seems to be what - 7k alt on average? What the hell is the place based on? Tibet? We have fields at 11k. A significant amount of AH aircraft like to operate at 0-15k. Having a base deck in some parts at 7k, flat, (ie not a mountain peak) is going to screw it for some of us (read ME in a tiffie). I used to find the tiffie struggled on Mindanao with its hi alt central region, but this is just to much.
My guess is before long the arena will be covered in ponies and other alt-monkey rides. When I jumped in before there were a few people querying a/c performance, most likely they didn't notice they were rolling from 11k fields.
Third, the historical aspect. I know its not the CT, but it would sure be nice to have something that resembled a country, even vaguely. There are some advantages to basing it on real terrain (like realistic altitudes for one).
WTG on 1.10 HTC, and good on you AKs for the effort, but I'm sorry this terrain takes away my enjoyment of AH.
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Probably too early to really form much of an opinion, but this map does seem over large. If nothing else I think HTC is going to need to rethink the way the clipboard maps works in order to support this. Maybe a way to hilite a give field?
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
-SNIP-
. If I understand you correctly we went from a 256 mile map to 512 map .. 100% increase
-SNIP-
Goin from 256 --> 512 is a 400% increase in area...
WAY more than is needed, IMO.
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I agree with Vulcan. This is an awesome release but the map is just to big. I'd consider cutting it in half, and don't have every side symetrical to each other. Maybe try to create a terrain that would introduce different strategy to each country position. Maybe a choke point here or there instead of everyone being open to attack on all 3 sides.
There's just to many bases, every country has a so many targets that everyone is attacking undefended bases on all sides. I saw it alot tonight and I was bummed. I'd up to attack a base. Maybe one defender would up. he dies and it turned out to be a sight seeing trip. Instead the other country is off doing the samething, attacking another undefended base. Its like there are so many bases that there is no threat to losing one, "just go grab one of theirs".
When the sever was over 400 players it was alot easier to find a fight and the game felt "right". Seems under 400 players the map fails.
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
If I understand you correctly we went from a 256 mile map to 512 map .. 100% increase .. bases on this map though increased by 240%
Going from 256 to 512 miles is a 400% increase.
No, really.
Trip
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First of all, the pizza map is just plain UGLY. Also, flying over repeating desert texture tiles makes for a really aweful out the window experience. The desert map just doesn't make it.
With Mindinao, HTC advanced realistic scenery to a very high point. The Pizza map is a step very far backwards. What the heck were you guys thinking with this "thing?"
Plus, now all we have to do to win a war is capture only about 100 fields or so. The war will rage for weeks. So if my country is down to 20 or so fields, I may as well not log on for a week or so. Maybe by then we will have been reset and not have the daunting task of digging out of huge hole to win back 150 fields or so. I wonder how many team jumpers there will be during the course of a war.
Well, the game "was" a lot of fun. My billing date comes up in a week or so, and I doubt I'll renew. When HTC gets their act together, I'll reconsider paying for this thing again.
I met a lot of really great people in the MA. Hopefully I'll run into some of the gang somewhere in multiplayerland.
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If this map reinforces an old flight sim custom of having the MA for fun fighting and practise and the events, and events arena as the place where "the war is won" I'm all for it.
There has never been anything remotely historical about any MA in any game, with the possible exception of WWIIOL.
I've never been interested in WWIIOL.
I want to log on on a weekday for a quick kill or two; and spend days/weeks planning for an event.
A fun MA and a healthy events regime fit that perfectly.
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I LOVE the map size, finally you can find a place where's you will not get gang banged.
I think the ground is too high in most parts. If the higest plateau were 5k, it would be good enought for me.
canyons, a lot of people wanted them back since beta map, saddly I wasn't one of them. I like canyons, but those ones are just two walls, it doesn't "feel" realistic.
A lot of work has been put on the creation of the map, I salute that, the rest is up to everyone's taste.
(http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/sig-frenchy1.jpg)
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To all you guys complaining about the quality of the pizza served in the ma. I implore you, come over to the ct when it opens. The reason you see 30 people there rather than 31 is that you are not there. It really is a great arena.
If you disgruntled people come over to the ct, there will be more people.
just please dont whine when you get there.
erg
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well it look like i'll be visiting CT more often when it opens. Looks like a place i might find attractive.
Pizza map is a bit big for a MA IMHO. A smaller map would constitute more furballs which in my opinion is what MA is all about anyways.
A large map would have been good if it was more in the frame work of CT. Then you could up a bomber or bombers and hit Berlin,London and so on.
IMHO.
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I like the map, I don't mind is big. Once upon a time we used to be no more than 30-40 in the MA, and the arena also seemed to be too large.
now in a normal night, the MA is crowded with 400-500 guys. And this will increase. Size is a tad big, yes. BUt is all right :).
What I dislike about this map is the high altitude....and I think it should be changed to a more low one. 12K fields are insane, and the zones where the ground is at 7K makes you feel like if you were fying over the Pamir plateau :D.
I think in that regard the map should be changed, but I can live with it for the time being :).
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I like the new map
and i don't like the whiners that come to complain within 24hrs
It's a whole new gameplay and we will get inventive enough to deal with it.
I was more tired of these small maps where on every corners gangs are incoming
For some this incrowdiness might be boring but that is realistic.
Anyway Mr. Dedalu ur definitly not the kid from Nostradamus
And with ur 16 post ur definitly know where u talkin about .
How long do u fly AH anyway
It's not the end it's a beginning
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Good grief, the map isn't out 24 hours yet. Give it a chance. Every time something new comes along that some one doesn't like or understand AH is consigned to doom and failure.
Work with it at least a week and then post your views as constructive criticism. You will be listened to.
There is probably a new map of this size in the works now with different terrains.
I have seen some things I like,some I don't care for and some I just don't understand. I'm trying to gather information on the things I don't understand and maybe what I don't care for will be improved with that knowledge.
Congrats to the guys who made the map.It had to be a tremendous amount of effort. I will not mention your names due to your extreme modesty.
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I'm confused. None of the maps we had prior to this one were even remotely historical in nature. Well, that's not entirely true, Mindano does actually exist, but it was hardly a hub of WWII airborn activity, nor was it ever used as such in MA. How is it that this map suddenly pulls people away from some historical ties? Uteris didn't? Baltic....that has absolutely NO resemblance to the Baltic other than in name, didn't? The Island map didn't (its a historical representation of what area exactly?).
Lets revisit the basics here. Online flight sims are, first and foremost, about one thing...gameplay. There is far more unhistorical about them than historical. Using the latter as any type of benchmark is doomed to fail.
If you at least want to see a quasi-historical look at opposing plane sets, try the CT. Again, you're still a long ways from anything that could be even remotely considered a historical representation. However, its a step closer than the MA ever will be, or should be.
Insofar as tha new eggs'n crust map, I have no real comment as yet. I spent an hour with it, far too soon to form a qualified opinion. Qudo's to the creators though, at first glance its certainly is an impressive piece of work.
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It is not the shape of the map that bothers me....I just can't read the damn thing! Maybe it is age catching up with me or something. It isn't just this new pizza map either....I was in the Malta TOD the other night and we were supposed to be attacking one base that was amongst a group of bases. I couldn't see which was which even when zoomed in. The icons run together at times and the letters and numbers are unreadable.
Don't get me wrong...love the new update...love the game...but scouring the map attempting to locate a specific base is getting old....as am I, I guess.
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you can zoom all the way the sectors are still 25 miles all bases are within 20 to 30 milea apart.
Are you using Insert/selete to zoom?
50-75 is all ya need to look at on your map. With over 200+ bases theres no need to look at any more then is necessary.
Maybe I dont get it. This map is no more cluttered be 25 mile square then any other. Theres just 4 x as many 25 mile squares that have to fit in the clipboard map.
AKs did an awesome focusing on gameplay. This map no matter what is appearence has much better gameplay then mindfinao or the island map.
If your haveing trouble finding a field. use the .move command.
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This map has an advantage over the previous ones: La7 taking off at 7k is not a pure rocket :D
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Originally posted by Wotan
If your haveing trouble finding a field. use the .move command.
Okay...but what if I am trying to locate an enemy base? An enemy bases that has 3 other bases right next door and all of the numbers and letters are on top of each other?
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still dont understand
do enter the arena thinking "i wanna kill xxx nme base" or do you enter find ans a squaddie and ask him where hes at?
If he says attacking xxx base just ask "where didja up from?"
then type .move to that base. You are in one of the largest squads in ah I find hard to follow your reasoning. But hey if ya dont like the map you dont like it.
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Wotan...here is what happened specifically.
I was on a mission (TOD - Malta) in which my flight was tasked with hitting a specific base - lets call it A4 (don't remember the actual designation). Around A4 is A1, A2, A3 - all enemy bases clustered together. I get to the target and see 4 bases when I look out of the cockpit - but as to which one is A4...I couldn't tell. I go to the map...on full zoom. All I see is a bunch of numbers and letters all on top of each other. I hit a base I think is A4...it was the wrong base.
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Curval, there are 2 ways to zoom the map. One is with the + and - buttons, the other is right click the + and - buttons or press insert or delete.
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you dont like hte non-historical maps well geuss what I HAVENT SEEN A SINGLE HISTORIC MAP IN THE MA if you dont like the map MAKE YOUR OWN a lot of effort was put into this map so dont try make it for nothing
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See you in the CT :D
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Originally posted by hitech
Curval, there are 2 ways to zoom the map. One is with the + and - buttons, the other is right click the + and - buttons or press insert or delete.
I know this...I was fully zoomed in. Maybe it was just the Malta map in this case.
Although it may seem like a whine I'm not that upset by it...just my own pet-peeve in AH. I find the clipboard map hard to read in general. It is my only "beef" with the game that I have..other guys/girls seem to have no problem with it...as I said before it is prolly just my bad eyes...brought on by too much...um...from being old.;)
I certainly don't think the new map is the End of AH!
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This map is GREAT !
and not the end of AH it's like a newborn : full of promises !
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I must agree with the some of the postings. The version 1.10 has a few bugs that need to be worked out. Maybe Hi-Tech will give us a few days free till they work the bugs out. I Salute the Aks for making the new map but, this map is totally confusing and I for one will not fly in it. I pay my 14.95 a month to enjoy a game that takes me away from the hardships of every day life. When I log on I fly with friends and meet new people. To play a game that has now become not so fun and harder to play and enjoy then maybe it is time to find a new flight sim game to play.
I have tired to enjoy this game and have even left for a while only to return as I have missed the guys I fly with. To spend my money and fly countless hours in a area that is loaded to the max with bases that a person could put into a program is not my idea of having fun. Last night I flew once and stayed on the ground for over 4 hours. I took 3 bases in a Gv by myself. So where is the fun? I found that rather boring. The only reason I stayed logged on so long was my friends were there.
Yes, call me a whinner or what ever but, I don't care it's my money and I can say what I want to say about a product that I pay for. Aces High has become a free for all, where perks are more important then the gamemanship that is suppose to be going on.
Well, I will now get off my soap box. Hi-Tech creations still have a ways to go to make AH an enjoyable game to play.
Since this is my 1st posting go easy on the replys.....
>S<
CuttaRTC
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I would have to agree that fewer bases but larger would be nice to see, haven't really looked into the strategery (sic) of the base/factory set up but a way to degrade a bases defenses by inflicting damage to the support facilities would be nice. Other than that I love this map. ROOM TO MOVE.
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Im confused Curval
You said this:
All I see is a bunch of numbers and letters all on top of each other.
If they are all on top of eacho ther how can you be fully zoomed in? When fully zoomed in the clip board consist of only 1 sector of the map, is this what your are seeing?
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
If they are all on top of eacho ther how can you be fully zoomed in? When fully zoomed in the clip board consist of only 1 sector of the map, is this what your are seeing?
I think maybe Curval is confusing view zoom with map zoom. If you view zoom full onto a map, it'll get really big but just as cluttered. It's a common mistake I bet.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by hitech
Im confused Curval
You said this:
All I see is a bunch of numbers and letters all on top of each other.
If they are all on top of eacho ther how can you be fully zoomed in? When fully zoomed in the clip board consist of only 1 sector of the map, is this what your are seeing?
HiTech
Goodness...maybe someone spiked my orange soda on Sunday...but...
In the Malta map all four of the enemy bases were clustered together in the same square/sector...on Malta! It is a tiny little island.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I think maybe Curval is confusing view zoom with map zoom. If you view zoom full onto a map, it'll get really big but just as cluttered. It's a common mistake I bet.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Ahhhh...here is the answer....
Yup...I'm an idiot.
;)
Sorry Hitech...I should have done my homework before sprouting.
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it is levi
I dunno know how mant times yesterday I let folks know how to zoom correctly. Most had been in ah for a bit.
I am still confused curval for the same reason as HT.
insert delete will keep the clipboard the same size but will zoom the map all the way into to 1 25 mile sector. There are no bases in any of the maps I have seen that have 2 base so close that when zoomed in, in the manner I described, would be as cluttered as to cause such an overlap of base numbers.
My apologies if I am totally misunderstanding you.
S! I hope you get it figured out.
EDIT
sorry posted same time :)
It wasnt as bad as ya thought eh?
:)
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What do you mean the pizza map is not historical? My family has lived in Pizza for generations. (OK, my mother’s side is from Corndog, but we try to keep that quiet.) This map is absolutely accurate. I played in those crazy canyons as a kid. See that little building next to A113? That’s daddy’s doublewide. And how dare you call our homeland ugly. Seeing those high desert plains again after moving away brought tears of nostalgia to my eyes. And we’ve always been proud that our country is large -- what do you want, Liechtenstein?
I demand that this assault on my country, it’s culture, and it’s people stop immediately.
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Ok.. I feel like the canary in the coalmine here but I have a very low threshold for boredom and.... I was bored.
more new stuff than any release and a bigger change. I was bored tho. I left early. I got tired of flying around hoping to find a 3 or four plane furball. 10 kills per hour is way different than 2 or three. I don't know if it will get better but I don't really see how with a population of like 2 players per field.
All I seen was a bunch of guys milkrunning fields. Addmittedly, I don't care about "strat" but taking undefended fields doesn't seem like a lot of fun to me even for the strat guys.
Please don't tell me that it was a thrill a minute for you and jam packed with dozen or more plane furballs... I didn't think that finding a fight would be the new "skill".
lazs
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Originally posted by Seeker
If this map reinforces an old flight sim custom of having the MA for fun fighting and practise and the events, and events arena as the place where "the war is won" I'm all for it.
There has never been anything remotely historical about any MA in any game, with the possible exception of WWIIOL.
I've never been interested in WWIIOL.
I want to log on on a weekday for a quick kill or two; and spend days/weeks planning for an event.
A fun MA and a healthy events regime fit that perfectly.
Seeker captured my thoughts precisely...
I am really hoping that this map for the MA will entice folks to fly in the CT. I have attempted to fly the combat arena but due to lack of numbers I always end up back in the MA.
I do wish someone would modify the terrain to a European or Pacific theme... The desert terrain gets very boring and is hard on the eyes...
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I bet if the map was green, all of the whining would stop. Yellow/Brownish is an irritating color! It also induces hunger, which is probably why I got up to go get something to eat a few times last night (or was it the long flights in those slow early war aircraft?) Anyway, if the map was green, it could be called the "Green Peace" map :D ... And all of those vehicle fields in the canyons, it must feel like a really slow version of PACMAN(TM) when driving around.
But I like the idea that, with this map, HTC plans to grow in its customer base to possibly a thousand players per night. But, with less than 500 players last night, the latency is unstable. I'd say it's time for a new server, but we'll see what happens through the weekend.
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I hope some of you guys never get called up for jury duty:eek:
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Well, After reading all the arguments, I find two general camps on this topic.
Camp A: The map is too busy, too ugly, too high and not remotely historical.
Camp B: Everyone who doesn't like the map is a whiner and should go to the CT.
Personally, I thought the map was terrible when it was first shown a while back. The guys in camp A are exactly right. However, it is diverse, it is different and it can and will be fun for many players.
What this map will do is begin a mass exodus to the CT by individuals and squads whenever it rotates around. I'm going to encourage my squad to head over to the CT when the "pizza" map rotates in.
You see, if you don't like it, there are acceptable alternatives. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.
My regards,
Widewing
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Like the new map!
AK's
Like the new planes! HTC
DmdHorn
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I agree 100% with Lazs.
I don't mind the "pizza map" itself--in fact I like it (it's a great change of scenery and I LOVE different altitudes)--but I think there's just too many bases for the player base AH has. Net result is too many people attacking undefended bases.
Perhaps this will change with time, perhaps not. It's worth a try.
J_A_B
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You don't like the Pizza Map?
wait 'till they release the Spaghetti Map...
:D
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I say hats off to HT and his group for keeping this game fresh. Nothing new would be the end of AH. Change is good just learn to use the new map and quit whining!!
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ouch, People like ak's go out of their way to bring us this wonderful map, and howd I know people would squeak about it the DAY of release.. Heh.. Get a life, go to CT if you don't like it, its not "The end of AH", show some respect, and get used to the canyons, thats where I am planning on killin all of you :D
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I'm with Lazs and J_A_B, nothing against the map itself. But so far, once I tired of trying out the wierd new bombing method and the drones that can't do a turn that a newbie pilot can, I couldn't find a decent fight and I'm definitely not some mindless furballer. Its either 3 v 1 for my side, or 3 v 1 against us, neither of which is fun for me :(
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Jesus H. The thing has been out for 24 hours and already we're getting:
"WAAAAAAAA! Mommy, bombing's too hard! The map's too big! The mountains are too high! I'm gonna cancel my subscription! Sniffle sniffle."
I say, don't let the door hit you on the bellybutton on the way out.
First of all, you'd have to have a pretty severe case of cephalorectal impaction not to have known all of these features were coming, how they were going to work, and even what the broad shape of the map looked like.
All the comments that it's ugly, whatnot--eye of the beholder, my friends. I personally found the Uterus and Black Sea maps a real yawn to look at out the window. On the other hand, I'm a desert freak and I keep putting myself in severe danger of getting shot down simply because I'm gawking out the window. (So I'll be that apparently oblivious guy tooling along looking like he's AFK that are so much fun to shoot down).
I haven't seen anyone mention one reason why the map is so big. HTC are obviously planning for growth. Sure, it's a big jump from what we had, but the idea that we now have an arena that can comfortably support a lot more people is a good thing, right?
This map basically allows you to participate in any kind of fight you want. Want to buff? You can get a leg up from some nice high fields. Want to take on some land targets in a CV? Plenty of those. A LOT of GV bases, many in awesomely strategic terrain. And there are large parts of each sector where you have a large number of roughly co-alt bases, located between 0 and 6K, and those sections look very similar to the rest of the MA maps. Want some sneak canyon attacks or confined turn fights? You got em. And I didn't see any lack of vulching or mega missions when i was in there last night.
A big to the AK guys for producing a versatile and intelligent terrain design. Don't listen to all those who've suddenly developed a new found respect for historical realism after happily flying LA7s against Spits on a map shaped like a part of the female anatomy. Don't listen to all those who are suddenly complaining that "we'll be on this map for weeks": there's no point designing anything around a short attention span. I don't see too many people complaining about WW2OL on the grounds that they've been stuck in freakin Belgium for the better part of a year (complaining for other reasons, but not that!).
All you AK guys, hope you are hard at work on the next one.
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>hope you are hard at work on the next one.
Heh. You couldn't pay me...
Wab
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Hi Dedalu, long time no see :)
As others here, I also think you are overreacting. As it was pointed out, the MA is just a first person shooters game with equipment that somehow resembles WWII aircrafts. It is supposed to bring fun in an uncommitted environment and it sure will do that through all the new possibilities it offers.
From what I see, the more historical events and matches are raising at a good pace and tend to increase, as the community grows older and star to look for more immersion and new challenges. It’s just a matter of time. While waiting, try to have fun :)
CYA
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
The physical size of the map doesn't bother me (512). Its the simple fact that there are so many bases. If there were less bases in the same physical space I think it would be better. If I understand you correctly we went from a 256 mile map to 512 map .. 100% increase .. bases on this map though increased by 240%. My two cents is simply 512 mile map but with 150 - 175 bases instead of 255.
Actually, ghostdancer 512x512 = 4 times the surface area of 256x256. So, if we had 75 bases before, we could expect 75*4 = 300.
But I don't like this map either, mainly because its visually so far from any reality one might ever see. Splitting the countries up among the landmasses, etc.
Its just plain smurfy!
I do like the desert aspect, though. Dunes and scrubby mountains and stuff reminds me of home, *sniff* :)
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We aren't voting but I'll do, my vote:
I DON'T LIKE THE MAP AS A WHOLE.
(I would like a piece of dessert, but not a HUGE desert like this)
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BIG <- First impression.
Not sure if I like the map or not due to the fact that I have not put any hours into it. I truely believe that you got to give things a chance before saying it sucks.
2 Things puzzle me.
One. Why bother having CV's in this map. There is 15 CV's in this map. Overkill. This map seems to be designed for dog fighting not Naval Ops.
Two. Just last week I popped my head in to the COMBAT ARENA only to find the the FINEST TERRAIN TEXTURE I have ever seen in a online sim. I have heard nothing but positive comments about it. If you put both terrains side by side, the combat arena wins hands down. Now why would this texture not be used on the new map is beyond me. They had a gem at thier fingertips and failed to cash in on it. :rolleyes:
Gonna sit on the sidelines and watch this all unfold. I am sure that Hitech and the gang at HiTech Creations are working their tulips off to make us all happy. That is the way they do business.
S!
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Originally posted by Vulcan
I'm sorry but the new map gets the big thumbs down from me.
First, it is to big. Sure maybe the game is making room but scaling 4x immediately results in a very thin arena. It took me some time when logging in to figure out where the fights are. The MA now resembles to CT with its sparsely populated areas.
Secondly, it is to high. Overall the terrain seems to be what - 7k alt on average? What the hell is the place based on? Tibet? We have fields at 11k. A significant amount of AH aircraft like to operate at 0-15k. Having a base deck in some parts at 7k, flat, (ie not a mountain peak) is going to screw it for some of us (read ME in a tiffie). I used to find the tiffie struggled on Mindanao with its hi alt central region, but this is just to much.
My guess is before long the arena will be covered in ponies and other alt-monkey rides. When I jumped in before there were a few people querying a/c performance, most likely they didn't notice they were rolling from 11k fields.
Third, the historical aspect. I know its not the CT, but it would sure be nice to have something that resembled a country, even vaguely. There are some advantages to basing it on real terrain (like realistic altitudes for one).
WTG on 1.10 HTC, and good on you AKs for the effort, but I'm sorry this terrain takes away my enjoyment of AH.
I feel the same way. Don't get me wrong, I the AK weenies for making this map and the time and effort they put into it but this map just plain sucks hairy sheep balls. Not because it isn't historical but because this is a "gamers" map.
Hopefully this map will just be a temporary place holder until the other large maps are done. I'll just have to take up a vomit bag with me whenever I up so I don't mess up my cockpit when I look outside at the terrain.
ack-ack
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Re: the map
its only the first map. not the last. more to come.
and IIRC , some AK's made this map on their own time. a BF >S< to them.
relax, people. have some fun.
seeing how the strategy and tactics evolve in this larger map and new aircraft is going rekindle my intrest in o/l gaming.
AH rocks.
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Go to the CT ??
Sorry, no offense but I find the CT boring. I'm from the "Lazs" school of flight...
I like to mix it up and catch my hair on fire :)
So the option is to fly the new arena, which for some reason is thought of as Nirvana to the game :rolleyes:
which is now HUGE and empty because of its relative size....
Brown
Blah
With no relation what so ever of a "real" place...
Hey I know it took alot of work. The direction it took in my view was wrong.
If I want to fly in an empty arena, I'll fly WB.
or go to the CT...
which is empty and has a different "storyline"
Or grab a rifle and do something else...
Which I never thought I was going to do..
But it's green and has some sort of relation to "real" in a game sense.
Even if it's just smoke and mirrors
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Originally posted by Wotan
If your haveing trouble finding a field. use the .move command.
Or if you are looking for anyone in particular, find them on the roster and click the GOTO button - I only found out about that one a few days ago, and it's invaluable for this wonderful terrain! :D (Yes, I like it! :) )
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Guys, relax...it has been up for a day.
Let me tell you what I think is gonna happen in the next few days.
People will do their thing...
The furballers will find a spot or two or three...probably one of the islands near the middle of the peace-sign. There there will be large furballs, fed from the bases and the cvs. Heck I just saw a large furball with all 3 countries involved. Talk about adrenaline.
The ground pounders and the strat people will hang around on the slices. There they will attack and defend. Capture key bases and lose key bases. There will be gigantic buff raids (I intercepted 15 B17s about an hour ago up in some remote area of the map), there will be coordinated jabo strikes, there will be NOE raids going back and forth in the canyons...
There are hundreds of spawnpoints for ground vehicles all over the map. There will be lots of ground - ground and air -ground battles fought.
So what if the map isnt even remotely "real" this map is 100% fair. The next map will probably be "real". For now we have this. It doesnt matter to me that the map is not a "real" map, and the people complaining about realism issues with the terrain, needs to realize that it is just as unreal to up a P51 and shoot down B17s with it.
In short, this map has room for everyone. On this map, people will get to do whatever it is that they want to do. Milkrunning, furrballing, strat-attacks, buff raids, ground battles, NOE missions, cap, you name it.
And besides, it is just a map.
And Im not gonna say "its just a game", because it is not "just a game". Its AH.
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Quit your squeaking. This map is needed, the older maps were too damn crowded, i'd try to jabo something and have 25 angry furballers after me.
If you don't like this map... tough.. I had to put up with mindano (or however you spell that messed up word) for many tours and it wasn't removed because some people hated it.
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Hear hear!! Thank you, Hortlund, for you intelligent statement on the new map!
Originally posted by Hortlund
Guys, relax...it has been up for a day.
Let me tell you what I think is gonna happen in the next few days.
People will do their thing...
The furballers will find a spot or two or three...probably one of the islands near the middle of the peace-sign. There there will be large furballs, fed from the bases and the cvs. Heck I just saw a large furball with all 3 countries involved. Talk about adrenaline.
The ground pounders and the strat people will hang around on the slices. There they will attack and defend. Capture key bases and lose key bases. There will be gigantic buff raids (I intercepted 15 B17s about an hour ago up in some remote area of the map), there will be coordinated jabo strikes, there will be NOE raids going back and forth in the canyons...
There are hundreds of spawnpoints for ground vehicles all over the map. There will be lots of ground - ground and air -ground battles fought.
So what if the map isnt even remotely "real" this map is 100% fair. The next map will probably be "real". For now we have this. It doesnt matter to me that the map is not a "real" map, and the people complaining about realism issues with the terrain, needs to realize that it is just as unreal to up a P51 and shoot down B17s with it.
In short, this map has room for everyone. On this map, people will get to do whatever it is that they want to do. Milkrunning, furrballing, strat-attacks, buff raids, ground battles, NOE missions, cap, you name it.
And besides, it is just a map.
And Im not gonna say "its just a game", because it is not "just a game". Its AH.
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And so, I figured I'd give the new map concept a further try. After an afternoon of watching brown and yellow slooooooooly moving by my windscreen, I can safely conclude that the MA is a totally different game...with totally different tactics...and strategy... Some may like it, some won't. I don't, but that's my opinion and my preference, and my right to dissent.
Maybe if HTC gradually instituted a larger map area, the essence of the game would not have been so radically altered. If they had to jump from a 256 mile square to a 512 mile square area, putting an old 256 mile map in the center of a 512 mile square would be a good start. Then, as the number of players increased, they could add bases on the periphery of the current base areas. That way they could keep the old player density per square mile about the same.
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I like the map, and I like the size of it. The only thing I'm having problems with is the frame rate it provides. I honestly prefer a less detailed map to play on that's a bit easier on the eyes. Because of the detail level, I've had to drop down to 800x600 16bit, and at that resolution it really gets really grainy. I know people will naturally tell me to upgrade, but isn't that the most used comment WWIIOL had....and look what happened to them. I'll try again tonight and see how it works for me.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Guys, relax...it has been up for a day.
Let me tell you what I think is gonna happen in the next few days.
People will do their thing...
The furballers will find a spot or two or three...probably one of the islands near the middle of the peace-sign. There there will be large furballs, fed from the bases and the cvs. Heck I just saw a large furball with all 3 countries involved. Talk about adrenaline.
The ground pounders and the strat people will hang around on the slices. There they will attack and defend. Capture key bases and lose key bases. There will be gigantic buff raids (I intercepted 15 B17s about an hour ago up in some remote area of the map), there will be coordinated jabo strikes, there will be NOE raids going back and forth in the canyons...
From my limited experience with the map I'm seeing the same thing. Folks are migrating to their respective camps, just as with every map. We're still fleshing out _where_ and _how_ that's going to work and look but its happening all the same in this map too.
I'd agree fully with the above in that it will work itself out. I've never been a fan of huge maps like this as I'm a furballer at heart. It has a much needed offset though and that's the large number of bases. It is a MUST for folks of my ilk. Otherwise this map would be ALL 30k, strat based engagements. The volume of bases is necessary to maintain some level of close proximity fighting, thereby offsetting some of the map's vastness. Without all those bases you'd fly for hours just looking for a fight, and that's getting a bit too painful for my tastes. As it is now the furball fields are already starting to manifest themselves, so things are looking good imo.
This map may require a timer though. I just don't see a country being able to muster the resources to knock another country out. I could be wrong, but at the very least I think this map will be staying as the primary for quite some time.
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The end of Aces High?!
I might have to find a second job. ;)
The map is huge!!!
I am already working on a "What If" Scenario using that terrain. Canada invades the U.S. to take over the Grand Canyon. Mossies VS. P-38's or something like that. ;)
No problem with it here. When I finally managed to download it several squadies were on. I asked ghosth for the location. He typed 168. I thought it was a typo, but I tried it anyway.
.move 168
And there I was!!! :eek:
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
I like the new map
and i don't like the whiners that come to complain within 24hrs
"I'd like to complain about people who complain about those who complain... It's high time something was done about it."
-Graham Chapman, Python (Monty):)
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I like the new map. I like the fact that you can't get as far in the hole (relatively) as you could before, when the numbers were imbalanced. I like the longer fronts, and the provisions for everybody.
The only thing I like about the AKs more than this map is getting to shoot one of them down :)
A big salute to you guys for this generous gift to the AH community.