Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vulcan on July 04, 2002, 02:09:31 AM
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Great work on 1.10, but this terrain is just wrong. I know the AKs are gonna hate me for this.
The terrain is to high on average, and seriously works against many aircraft that operate in the 5k - 15k altitude range (eg, Tiffie, La5, 190A5/A8 etc). The layout is confusing, cluttered, and generally hard to figure out whats going on.
I logged on tonight, and after spending some time squinting at the map on my 21" monitor trying to figure out where the fight was had the choice of two fields near fights. One was being hit by an 11k enemy field, the other was already overwhelmed and isolated. So I choose neither. I logged off to play another game (SoF2, or WC3).
Neither 3 aircraft I prefer to fly (tiffie, la5, A8) would operate well in the fight space above 11k (11-25k).
Please, either redesign this pizza abomination to some realistic altitudes or give us our old maps.
I'm not the only one that feels this way, its a rare moment when I decide NOT to play AH.
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I fear change
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Neither 3 aircraft I prefer to fly (tiffie, la5, A8) would operate well in the fight space above 11k (11-25k).
Great new for my Bf 109 G10... bye bye beach boys with La 7. I love the mountains, I love the mountains! :) Although the textures are a little bads.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Great work on 1.10, but this terrain is just wrong. I know the AKs are gonna hate me for this.
The terrain is to high on average, and seriously works against many aircraft that operate in the 5k - 15k altitude range (eg, Tiffie, La5, 190A5/A8 etc). The layout is confusing, cluttered, and generally hard to figure out whats going on.
No sweat, Vulcan ... cannot please everyone. However, to address your remarks:
1) Perhaps 50% of the fields are well within the la5/typhoon comfort zone. If you want to fight near a high alt area, switch rides.
2) The clipboard is the neatest piece of software I've seen in some time. When AH starts, perhaps 25% of the map is displayed, sufficiently zoomed so that you can readily see if the area is hot. If you see no activity, move to another zone and zoom the map again. Repeat the process until you find an area of activity.
If you display the entire map and turn on the spawn points (or radar areas or zone maps), yeah, it's a gigantic blaze of confusing color. So, don't do that. :)
If there is one fault I would name about the clipboard, it's this: Frequently, I zoom the map so I can clearly see what's going on in my local area. When I do that, I'm blind so far as the rest of the map! I wish I had a toggle switch that would let me flip back and forth between current zoom and the entire map. In that way, I could respond to threats in different sectors. Maybe the field icons need to be reduced in size? I dunno.
We're all going to be sick of this map soon, even if you like it now. All of us are addicted to a steady diet of change. Surely there are a few of the naysayers busily preparing maps! Surely, there will be a few historical maps - like zeros and n1ks over the baltic.
curly
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Vulcan pretty much nails it on the head.
Don't be afraid to add the La-7 to the list. Theres nothing to be ashamed of its capabilities at low alts. Thats what it was designed to do, sweep ahead to support and escort the IL-2 fighters as they provide close air support for ground troops.
IL-2 suffers from these high alt fields as well, making it more of a hangar queen then it already is.
What I want is a game that has fights over land that looks like and has similair elevation values of the Steppes of Asia, Farmlands of Western Europe, or Chain Islands of the South Pacific - not the mountains and canyons of Tibet & Nepal.
Snorkey
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Just put it into the rotation. Hi alt boys should have their turn to.
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I just took off in my Mossie and was wondering why it was such a dog. I was thinking:
"Well now, this is hardly better than that U.S. hunk o' junk I was trying earlier (A-20) and noted would be eaten for lunch by a Mossie 6."
Then I thought:
"Heh, how silly of me. I loaded 2k of eggs. There, that's solved!"
A bit latter I went:
"Hmmm, strange. Still seems to be climbing like its stuck in mud. I don't remember my Mossie stuggling for altitude like this. I wonder what is up?"
Then I happened to glace at my altimeter:
"16,500ft:eek: No way I reached 16k in 5 minutes!"
So I clicked on the ALT button and looked at the base I'd taken off from.
The base was 11k up.
Mossie reaches peak climb capability at 4k.
Mossie reaches peak speed at 13k
Mossie loses all WEP capability at 15k.
Mossie is a low level beast.
All told I don't mind a whit though. It was just a surprise. But now I know to look for that.
Had a fun fight in a canyon in which I bagged a P-47D-30 and a F4F-4 later on the same flight.
NOTE to AKs: I like the textures. They seem higher rez and work well together.
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I have no problem with the terrain whatsoever. I think if you look hard enough there is something for everyone. This BS about the alt of some fields is stupid, what I hope it's going to do is push people into flying stuff they normally would'nt bother with and we'll see a more varied bunch of aircraft flying around. You want a low alt fight there's loads of fields near the coast with low altitudes, go fight there.
My one niggle is the clipboard map, finding fields is VERY hard now simply because they are so close together, the base icons also obscure the radar dots which is annoying. I'm going to experiment with the colours used for radar dots and see if I can make it a bit clearer for myself.
A suggestion. On the ground now I have started using the .move ### command just to find bases. How about creating a .highlight ### command which would put a big arrow pointing at the base in question, friendly or enemy, on the ground or in flight. This would make finding the base when the shouts of "### is under attack!!!!!!" or "We're all fighting at ###" a lot easier.
Nice job AK's BTW and ty HTC for the A20 :)
Gatso
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I gotta say i like the high alt bases... It's nice to have maps which favors different kinds of fighters in circulation. Maybe I don't have to see the quakish swarm of LA-7's everytime i log on, and maybe it will lead to a more diverse use of planes.
However, I would like a more natural layout of the land. I get a strong "Pacman"-feeling when i log on. Something like the baltic would be preferable. But all in all, its a welcome change.
Thumbs up, AK's
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there are some low level area's too. See if you can find a fighter over there.
The map is great, just get used to it, a lot of people never like change.
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The problem is the map is consistant over larger areas. IE, the old map might have had one sector of really high terrain with a fight going on over it which spills onto some lower areas, this new map has 4-8 sectors of hi alt terrain with no spillover of the fight.
Why not lower the terrain? Is there a reason for it being ridiculously high? I'm not asking for a 'historical' map, just something a little more like this planet earth.
Why do we need 11k airfields?
Its not producing a map for the hi-alt guys, all its doing is scaling the abilities of the aircraft down, leaving the hi alt aircraft the only choice for most of the map.
Originally posted by AKcurly
No sweat, Vulcan ... cannot please everyone. However, to address your remarks:
1) Perhaps 50% of the fields are well within the la5/typhoon comfort zone. If you want to fight near a high alt area, switch rides.
2) The clipboard is the neatest piece of software I've seen in some time. When AH starts, perhaps 25% of the map is displayed, sufficiently zoomed so that you can readily see if the area is hot. If you see no activity, move to another zone and zoom the map again. Repeat the process until you find an area of activity.
If you display the entire map and turn on the spawn points (or radar areas or zone maps), yeah, it's a gigantic blaze of confusing color. So, don't do that. :)
If there is one fault I would name about the clipboard, it's this: Frequently, I zoom the map so I can clearly see what's going on in my local area. When I do that, I'm blind so far as the rest of the map! I wish I had a toggle switch that would let me flip back and forth between current zoom and the entire map. In that way, I could respond to threats in different sectors. Maybe the field icons need to be reduced in size? I dunno.
We're all going to be sick of this map soon, even if you like it now. All of us are addicted to a steady diet of change. Surely there are a few of the naysayers busily preparing maps! Surely, there will be a few historical maps - like zeros and n1ks over the baltic.
curly
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Neither 3 aircraft I prefer to fly (tiffie, la5, A8) would operate well in the fight space above 11k (11-25k).
Great new for my Bf 109 G10... bye bye beach boys with La 7. I love the mountains, I love the mountains! :) Although the textures are a little bads.
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THe Terrain is greeat. Thx and
AK's must be really hard to make it! There's enough for everyone but yes for now it's confusing:
Field 241 has been captured by knights
Field 241??? Where is it?
I think a time goes by I'll get more experienced with this huge terrain and this zone thing.
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Thats a contradiction, the new terrain prevents a variety by promoting hi alt aircraft. Plain and simple.
Originally posted by gatso
I have no problem with the terrain whatsoever. I think if you look hard enough there is something for everyone. This BS about the alt of some fields is stupid, what I hope it's going to do is push people into flying stuff they normally would'nt bother with and we'll see a more varied bunch of aircraft flying around. You want a low alt fight there's loads of fields near the coast with low altitudes, go fight there.
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It's a good terrain,b ut two things can be improved:
A. Altitude. If half the fields are under five thousand feet, half are over. 11000 feet is a Dueling arena altitude for a field. I understand wanting to make it harder as you move to the interior (or edges), but the altitudes are exaggerated.
I mean, I went ona b26 run from an 11k field to a 9.6 k field. That means you need 17-18 k just to stay above ground fire! The B26 doesn't like to climb that high.
Likewise the canyons. Canyons are fun to fight in, but if neither plane is able of "popping out" of the canyons, forget it.
If you took the current elevations, and halved them, I'd be happy.
B. The default arrangement of fields. currently it's set up to make use of the maximum number of fields at any one time: each of the three "slices" has each of the three countries, so each country starts with seven fronts. That'll be great when we have 2000 players on line, but not with 500. The effect is that people who log in "looking for a fight" are frustrated, while field capture becomes less of a challenge since there's always some undefended field to capture.
For now, I say make the default: one slice, one country, and see how that plays out.
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That sounds like very high ground for a desert :>
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I'd have to agree about the high alt. Thats the one thing I am dissatified with how it turned out. I like the size, I like the textures, I like the strat, I like the canyons, the shape is irrelevent to me, but the alt did get a excessive.
I'm gonna play around alilttle today to see if that could be adjusted without a lot of rework.
Wab
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Thats a contradiction, the new terrain prevents a variety by promoting hi alt aircraft. Plain and simple
I what way is it a contradiction? Fly near the coast and most of the fights I have seen are 0-15k, you want a high alt fight go inland and take off at 12k and go find some high fights.
Gatso
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My only complaint regarding the new map is the lack of realism in the terrain... I miss the mountains and the green, the trees and lakes...
The desert terrain gets very boring and is hard on the eyes...
I want to fight over earth not mars...
I hope someone can overlay a European or Pacific terrain over the pizza map... (no slam, just what everyones calling it)
But I think the strategic concept of the new map is a work of art.
It makes the fight fair for everyone. A big Salute to the AK's for all the work they put in this baby...
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Love the new version overall, but I am going to give the terrain a 'thumbs down' for now.
My reasoning is that it's a bit premature to offer up such a large map when:
1) Most folks (IMHO) would have preferred a smaller map (and one far more legible) so that they could concentrate on learning the new aircraft and the changes (some significant!) brought about by the new version. And...
2) Numbers online at the moment do not support the size of the AK map.
Having said that the map is great and I can only imagine the effort put forth to bring it to us. (Thank you AKs!)
Personally, I would have introduced the map down stream of the initial release of 1.10.
Now if I can just get the game to stop dumping me to the desktop then I truly will be a happy man!
Hwkeye
The 'Original' Flying Tigers
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Originally posted by Snorkey
Vulcan pretty much nails it on the head.
Don't be afraid to add the La-7 to the list. Theres nothing to be ashamed of its capabilities at low alts. Thats what it was designed to do, sweep ahead to support and escort the IL-2 fighters as they provide close air support for ground troops.
IL-2 suffers from these high alt fields as well, making it more of a hangar queen then it already is.
What I want is a game that has fights over land that looks like and has similair elevation values of the Steppes of Asia, Farmlands of Western Europe, or Chain Islands of the South Pacific - not the mountains and canyons of Tibet & Nepal.
Snorkey
The map you want is in CT right now
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There are things I like about it, and things I really dislike.
The desert textures are a nice change of place and look quite good (a little grainy down low, but no biggie).
And I've enjoyed several exhilirating canyon fights, quite fun. I have no problems with the altitudes.
The things I dislike, are not any thing about this terrain, but a function of a terrain this size with this many bases.
Its almost impossible to find a fun fight. With the fights spread out over 7 fronts, and about 100 pilots per side, everyone spreads out and starts milkrunning bases. If one side gets even a slight disadvantage, the side thats even slightly down, just moves elsewhere and attacks where the enemy isn't.
So either I'm attacking the enemy with a 4 to 1 advantage (no fun), or I'm fighting at a 4 to 1 disadvantage. And thats no fun either.
Its not the terrain, its the number of players, and how we're playing it. :( Maybe a different starting setup would help, where each side starts with one sector?
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I like it overall, But I feel this map might never reset!....
It is also ver disorenting unlike the other 256, I think it is the canyons.
I like the high alts bases A little odd but It helps the community get out of the furball mentality.Furballing isnt gonna help reset this map.
If you Use an airplane like it was meant to be used, you shouldnt see a problem at all IMO.
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The map seems to offer something for everyone. By doing that... it means that not every area is for everyone.
The thing I don't really like about the MA right now is that people would rather be milkrunning than fighting. I believe its time for HTC to turn the ack lethality/accuracy back up. Seems if 200 people are on, 150 different bases are being hit.
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Most planes are green.
This map is hard to the eyes.
And boring.
And feel like playing in another world, not Earth.
The canyons are funny but not realistic.
Cant feel inmersed with this planes in this enviromment
This World do not exists
I hate this map.
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Who finds bombing bases and taking fields fun? I like furballing. There should be some accomodation for it, wouldnt you agree Nefari?
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Good stuff Wabbit!...See,there you go guys.A little input is all that's needed and the map gets tweaked...:)
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It's too big
It's brown
It's blah
It's boring
I tried it
I don't like it
Its almost impossible to find a fun fight
Prewhine came true.
But hey, I got options :D
Enjoy
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Vulcan.
HTC released a terrain editor a while back.
Your up.
eskimo
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I won't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't mind the terrain. In fact, I rather like it. I like the brown color (nice to see something different now and then), I like the different altitude fields so everything isn't always on the deck, I like the general layout.
What I don't like is the requirements it was built to. Namely, 512 x 512. However, this is not the AK's fault so they deserve a big for making it.
J_A_B
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Eskimo, I don't pay US$14.95 to design other peoples games.
Your down.
Originally posted by eskimo2
Vulcan.
HTC released a terrain editor a while back.
Your up.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Vulcan
... The layout is confusing, cluttered, and generally hard to figure out whats going on.
It's really hard know where my country needs me.
My vote: new maps or old maps!
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Originally posted by Nefarious
I like the high alts bases A little odd but It helps the community get out of the furball mentality.Furballing isnt gonna help reset this map.
But this map is furballing only! None seens know what to do, so... everybody will make furballs.
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As an FYI, there seems to be a group of furball fields in around the center of the map where the three landmass points meet. For those of you wanting to fly the 0-15k alt planes thats a good area to look for a starting field. That entire region (about the size of Mindano :->) is all sea level up to about 5k or so. Popular area, lots of action for all tastes, good fit for the low alt rides.
Gotta say the more I play this map the more I like it. I quite enjoy the variation.
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I find it incredibly funny and ironic that people are complaining about an MA terrain not being realistic! It's the MA guys it isnt ever very realistic - if you mean like a recreation of WW2 where planes flew in units according to orders - anyway!
The POINT is that we all have a chance to test the new strat system in a full-sized terrain to see how it works and see WHAT works and what doesnt. Information gathered from the use of this terrain will be invaluable to designers of new terrains or when revising old ones. And whether you like it or not you wont have to fly this terrain forever - I personally really dislike the Lake Mickey Mouse terrain although Ive overcome my initial dislike of NDIsles somewhat tending to prefer reasonably scaled realistic terrains (ones shrunk too much get the thumbs down from me
Appreciate the effort thats gone into it and be happy that heres your chance to help improve the next terrain and the next version of AH.
S! AKs... and S! HTC for v1.10.
Esme
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For the record, HT was on the other day and said he is looking at making a couple changes to the terrain. The first change is the altitude of the fields/map in general. It is going to be addressed and changed, so no worries.
Nim
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Aww man. I like hearing vulcan cry.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Thats a contradiction, the new terrain prevents a variety by promoting hi alt aircraft. Plain and simple.
I can just as easily say that maps with nothing over 2k promote low-alt aircraft. Plain and simple. Finally a map that promotes some higher altitude fights, what a refreshing change. I enjoy the challenge of flying my Jug in whatever conditions, even the low altitude ditch fights. If you can't enjoy flying your chosen rides in less than optimal conditions... well sorry about that. Fly near the water, that's at low altitude. Otherwise enjoy the challenge of flying your chosen ride in a more challenging situation for once instead of whining about the first map that doesn't favour your ride.
Lephturn
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I find it admirable that a few AKs havent come right out and told a few folks to F*** themselves. :)
Good to see you handling the *criticism* so well :)
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This.new.map.is.excellent.for .the.P38
The.old.maps.sucks.where.unre alistic.
Airwar.can.be.boring.it's.realistic.
U.can.still.furball.however
at.last.we.have.a.bit.fog.of. war.that's.realistic.again
Going.back.to.the.old.maps.is .going.back.to.stoneage
Again.bishes.whine.less.and.a lready.captured.a.zone.
Explore.the.new.strategy/map
Instead.of.whining
:)
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If we dont have milkrunners or people that strategically play this game you guys that hate the map will be here forever
Buck Up fellas, these maps with all the airfields will leave enough time to make maps to replace it.
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I'm sorry leph I didn't realize the old maps had ceiling caps on them.
Originally posted by Lephturn
I can just as easily say that maps with nothing over 2k promote low-alt aircraft. Plain and simple. Finally a map that promotes some higher altitude fights, what a refreshing change. I enjoy the challenge of flying my Jug in whatever conditions, even the low altitude ditch fights. If you can't enjoy flying your chosen rides in less than optimal conditions... well sorry about that. Fly near the water, that's at low altitude. Otherwise enjoy the challenge of flying your chosen ride in a more challenging situation for once instead of whining about the first map that doesn't favour your ride.
Lephturn