Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on July 04, 2002, 06:45:26 AM
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I have never had any complaints about AH flight models, nor indeed of any other aspect of the game itself. Indeed, soon after joining AH, I made a
list of ten things (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9383) that I liked about the game.
The only things that have spolied it, for me, have been the scoring system and the way that it encourages gangbangs, vulching and other dweebery. There is, it would seem, a preponderance of people who just want to get kills, and to hell with the war, to hell with strategy.
I think that the removal of the Victory messages is wonderful! :D:D:D For those people who are still p***ing and moaning about that, all I can say is that it's time to stop being boys and to learn how to be men. Was I alone in noticing how many Victory 1 messages we used to get compared to the number of Victory 2 messages? Now, we get a congratulatory message if we actually LAND two or more kills, but other than the three or four such messages I got last night, I saw very few of these. That tells me that many of those Victory 1 guys were on idiotic suicide missions. If removal of the Victory messages removes the incentive for such missions, then I am all for it. What's the point of killing things if you get killed yourself? The exception to that rule is self sacrifice to prevent a more major catastrophe. I have seen a Battle of Britatin WW2 Spitfire pilot (Ray Holmes) interviewed about his escapade with a Dornier. He had run out of ammo, and believing that the Dornier was en route to bomb Buckingham Palace, he rammed it, and then bailed out! In AH I might take a substantial risk if it means saving my field from capture.
Most if not all of the criticism of AH 1.10 concerns the terrain. Now come on, guys. Don't tell me you're surprised at the problems we're having with it! When I first saw that pizza map a few weeks ago, I sent a copy to an old WB friend of mine and said "Is this for arcade play or what!". It was inevitable that the fights would take place on the edge where one team's territory borders that of another team.
I don't see this map as the end of AH at all. I feel that Hitech perhaps felt obligated to enact this map in response to the AKxxxxxx player initiative. It is of course a ridiculous map, and I can't see us using it three months from now. I think what we need now is a terrain that encourages intelligent game play, and discourages the erstwhile gangbangery. We need a terrain in which a team can acquire a considerable advantage by destroying a target deep within enemy territory, as this would encourage a well thought out plan, instead of simply turning up at a field en masse, courtesy of the Mission Editor. And before you suggest I go to the (empty) CT, I believe that this could exist in the MA.
One thing I notice is that if shooting down the lead bomber of a formation of three, you get three kill credits!
Don't be critical of 1.10. Stick around. Today is only Day 2. There will be other maps. Forget your idiotic Victory messages and seeing your name light up, and let's all grow up.
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amen brother glad you found a niche in AH scrmbl
S!
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I also agree the removal of the victory messages is excellent. As I can still see who I shoot down and who shoots me down. Without the previous systems endless scrolling of kill messages.
Personally I've always felt a greater sense of achievment landing 3 kills then dying with 5
...-Gixer
The Horse Soldiers
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For me the version 1.10 is THE version of AH
I never have such a good feeling since ... christmas when I was a little kid :)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Don't be critical of 1.10. Stick around. Today is only Day 2. There will be other maps. Forget your idiotic Victory messages and seeing your name light up, and let's all grow up.
You assume that those of us who enjoy furballing in some way care about having our names light up by landing. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be entirely happy if my name never appears in the kill buffer again. The measure of a player, after all, is not the number of kills he accrues in the kill buffer, but rather the respect or fear he engenders in others.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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eww that hurts, I must measure about 1mm then with my pathetic flying ability ! :)
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There have been some exciteable posts before v1.10 that it would usher in a new era for AH, now I've seen it for my own eyes I think this really is the point where AH has taken a huge leap over anything else out there. There are a few nasty bugs afflicting the bombers but with such a radical change in the way bombers operate it's not surprising a few gremlins got into the works but HTC has a proven track record of squashing these bugs quickly.
The map does'nt really inspire me at all but it does act as a showcase for the way Aces High and its strat will work in future. I wonder now that with such a huge map size that more historically accurate maps could not be used. Fair enough with the older smaller maps it was important to make sure everyone had equal 'land' but these maps are so huge I sometimes wonder if we will see one side win the war :)
Glad to see the score message system changed. There are many great pilots in the community who get kill after kill but so often you see even mediocre pilots get kill 4 or more, you think to yourself "hmm a new hotshot in town" then see that same pilot vulching a field, the same sort of guy who tags along on a gangbang field capture and then sits over the field vulching padding his score while the goon/LVT/M3 driver get's picked off by a lone enemy fighter totally outnumbered but havign the sense to fly over his town first and not disturb the vultures over the field.
Looking forward to more time online once the servers settle down as everyone scrambles to download the new version.
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I personally think it's too soon to be commenting on the map. I do think with time we'll find out if people can adjust to it or not...but only with time.
One thing I wonder. Can we change the country names on the Pizza Map to "Pepperonis", "Sausages" and "Anchovies"?
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The reason you don't see any victory messages anymore is because there are no fights. I rarely got less than 2 kills in a sortie as did most of my squaddies (if I got any kills at all in a sortie).
don'
t be fooled into thinking this has forced people to fly the way you and a small minority like... if it forces that then it will simply force people to leave and you can.... play with yourself.
I don't care about the terrain or the strat or the kill messaages or the score or any of that crap... I just want to have some good fights. They are sadly lacking on this map. good for you.... bad for me.
I am betting that ther are more of me than there are of you.
As poopie pointed out.... If I wanted to fly in a deserted arena I woulda stayed in WB.
This map may have saved WB's butt.
lazs
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Oh come on, lazs. That's bollocks, and I think you know it. I accept that maybe you did get two kills a sortie. So do I. The difference between us is that whereas you care only about kills per hour, I prefer to survive and land - more realistic, you see :D
If you're not getting any kill credit messages with the new system, it must be because you fly suicide missions. Fine, get your 3+ kills per sortie, but when you die you get no message.
It's wrong to say there are no fights. I got at least three kill credit messages in my first session with 1.10.
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Laz thats BS & you know it.
Takes 30 secs to find a good fight.
This is the best release that AH has ever seen.
So you don't like this map, fine, I didn't like mindanao. The fact is I bet you couldn't build a map if you tried. The AK's did, did it to HTC's specs, and we are flying it.
Challenge is on YOU laz, want a better map, then build it!
Till then quit moaning
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Let me add something to what lazs is saying. Wednesday night, flying knight, in an hour I saw 1 enemy, lazs saw 2. We continuously scanned the fronts but to no avail. All the fights were between the bish and the rooks, according to the map.
However, lastnight, I had all the fighting I wanted at 87. The map is huge and we had a base that someone wanted, but that was about the only fight on the map for the knights.
PS for beet1e. Lazs doesn't suicide. A simple glance at his stats confirms this.
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On a side note here beet1e..
I prefer to survive and land - more realistic, you see
You might wanna take a look a lazs score the last tour before commenting on flying to survive.
He landed a WHOLE lot more than you did ;)
But he's different, he's a furballin maniac that lands his sorties..
Haven't got a handle on that yet :D
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Poopster -
He landed a WHOLE lot more than you did
errrrm, No..... Actually, we both landed a little over half the sorties flown. If you would look at the deaths per sortie in the fighter columns, you'll see that I died once per 3.25 sorties on average, against one death per 2.35 sorties for lazs. I landed 61 fighters, lazs landed 69 but he flew many more fighter sorties. I don't feel that this discrepancy can be described as "a WHOLE lot more"... as you put it. Besides - I failed to land about 52% of my sorties; lazs failed to land about 56% of his.
Don't forget that many of my sorties are off the CV flying high risk jabo missions in a F4U-1D. I landed only 80 of my 172 sorties there.
So, Mr. Poopster - Get your facts right before correcting your Uncle Beet1e!
Apache! OK...
Lazs got many more kills than I did, but I fly in Euro time when there are far fewer people online, and far fewer fights to be found. To save you the bother of checking, I have prepared this screen image:
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Beet1e :)
I may be misinterpreting your response but I wasn't talking about who got how many kills. My statement about his not suiciding was based on his k/d of 3.9710 last tour, which he stays close to most of the time. I don't think one can be a suicider and have a k/d that high.
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Sorry Uncle Scramble :) I was refering to the same point that Apache made. The K/D thingy...
Which in a furball envirement is, well unusual to say the least :) And in no way suicidal.
;)
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Poopster & Apache - point(s) taken, but you're still a little off. Lazs and I fly with very different motives because we're very different people.
- I like field capture and field preservation, and couldn't give a toejam about kills for their own sake. I also like to try out different planes, rather than flying my best plane - the P51D - all the time.
- Lazs doesn't give a toejam about field capture, or field preservation, but cares only about kills per hour. He also flies only the one plane type - mainly the F4U-1, but occasionally the -1C.
If I were to fly the same plane the whole time, my k/d would be as good as his. As it is, my P51D k/d was better than 4:1 in the last tour. But notice that last tour I flew no fewer than 11 different plane types! I can't be an expert in all of them, and I am a novice in quite a few.
Now what do you think of them apples, guys? Time to rethink your argument(s)?
One thing I do have in common with lazs (apart from a big mouth) is that we both love the F4U :)
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Gosh beet1e, how can I be a little off? I'm arguing your statement "it must be because you fly suicide missions,". Nothing more, nothing less.
As to the rest of the thread, I'm not entering into any type of furball vs. strat debate. I like furballin', you don't. Thats fine with me.
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Apache - well something is awry. If you get 2+ kills/sortie every time, and land them, then you should get a message of adulation from the server. It's not true to say there are no fights. Therefore, if the kill credit message is not coming up, either a) less than 2 kills per sortie are being won, or b) they are not being landed. I cannot think of any other explanation.
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Beet1e, read my lips (sort of). I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing your suicide statement, not what lazs said about kills, lol.
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Apache - we have been rescued by tomato. Look for her on this board. She's my girlfriend and is here for the weekend. No more time for arguing, and no AH for the next few hours ;)
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hehe, have a good time beet1e. :) Cya when ya get back, lol.
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beetle... i don't care who is more skilled but don't presume to know how I fly... I seriously doubt that you could follow me into the same fights I get into flying only the -1a and then claim that your skill level is so much better tho.
you bailed 5 times I don't have a key mapped to bail so add those to your death colum... I don't get killed by planes much. look at the expanded format and tell me which planes are killing me. It is the pt boat or ack or gv. High risk? I bet i fly one hell of a lot more high risk than you.
If I kill any planes at all in a sortie it is 2 or more 90% of the time. I don't give a toejam tho if my name comes up in lights. for you to say it is no harder to find 2 planes or more to kill in a sortie in this new map is bull.
The planes I have fought in this map mostly tried to HO me.... When I killed em, everyone of the guys I killed was unknown to me and most likely inexperianced. I would have had a ten times harder fight with these guys if they would have been in a large fur with me. As it was..... they were easy to simply work over since they couldn't get away.
I would say that just getting into the arena with as low a skill level as mine or, even worse, yours.... is tantamount to suicide.
lazs
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I see even virutal pilots have HUGE ego's :D
and touchy too....
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Wlfgng, you are right. And lazs is more full of toejam than a Christmas turkey. Add 5 bails to the death tally? That is pure bull. Hell, the 109 ace, Franz Stigler (who I have met) bailed 17 times in the course of the war! But I don't care what lazs thinks. I'm learning the new terrains and finding the missions I want. Yesterday worked with AKWabbit to bomb a Vehicle field and kill the acks so he could get his M3 troops in. We got the field, and for me, that was a meaningful and rewarding mission. Did I get any kills? No. But for me, being instrumental in a field capture means much more than "just getting kills". From now on, when I see AKwabbit, I'll know he's a guy I can work with, and we'll remember that mission for a long time to come :)
As I landed that sortie, I noticed an enemy PNZR and an enemy FLAK at the town near our field. I was lucky the Osti didn't get me because I was low and didn't see him till very late. So I landed the F4U-1D and came back up with 2x1000. I had warned another Bishop of the presence of the enemy GVs. I think his name was Sharkbait, or something like that. He killed the Osti, and I came around and let the PNZR have it with the bombs. Mission accomplished, and field saved. And that is what is important to me. So, one kill in what, half an hour? I couldn't give a flying ***k about that.
I wont tell you my exact age, but I'm closer to 50 than 40 ;) And I have long passed the point of putting aside childish things. I just don't have that ego that some guys have. War was about the call of duty, and of self sacrifice - and not of personal glorification. The war was not won simply by guys like Col. Gabreski getting lots of kills. As I said to AKwabbit as I went down for the second ack, "I may get killed doing this", but it was worth the risk so that he could land his troops, as I think it would have been difficult to kill an ack from the M3 (trajectory etc).
Lazs - not claiming to be better than you, just different. The scoring system rewards people who fly like you, whereas the efforts made by missions like mine probably go unnoticed. It's OK. This is a game. I have enough (900 hours) of real flying experience for me to remember that at all times.
Apache! it was a very good night :D
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Stop hijacking good threads you potatos, next time I need to read through this crap again you owe me a keg of amberbock :)
Anyways...................... ....
Mave
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now if only we got hit sprites as God commands !
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bettle... little selective realism here eh? What WWII pilot was ever NOT credited for his kills if he ditched or... even if he died? When did they pass a rule in WWII that you had to get 2 kills and safely land to get credit or for anyone to know about it. I don't give a toejam but I do like to see who killed who and when. I can track people by their kills in the old version.
you also contradict yourself on having no trouble in finding fights but then admit that you are perfectly happy with a kill every half hour. you call me a suicider but I have a higher K/D and K/S and K/T than you. You claim that you could do well if you flew only one plane yet you don't do at all well unless you have planes a lot better than the mediocre. Every time I fly a new plane I do better than I do in the -1A. Are you saying that I would do worse in a P51 or lag7?
I am mediocre at best but you are even worse. If getting your name in lights is a big deal tho that is fine with me but don't tell me about finding fights because we have completely different ideas of what a fight is.
lazs
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Lazs,
We're starting to sound like a couple of old men. I think we're both tired of the issue.
You are quite wrong to say that I contradict myself. The statements "I have no trouble finding fights" and "So, one kill in what, half an hour? I couldn't give a flying ***k about that." are truths which are NOT mutually exlusive. The difference between us is that you fly the same old, same old... whereas I like variety. I don't just want to fly the same plane tour after tour after tour. So I'll fly something different. Yes, I like the F4U, and not only is it an excellent ground attack plane, it's a good fighter and is the one I normally choose when flying my favourite missions - operations off the carriers. Sometimes, defence of Bishland calls for an assault during which I might kill several planes in a sortie. At other times, like last night with AKwabbit, I'll fly a jabo mission. Sometimes defence calls for manning of the field guns or an Ostwind. I enjoy all those activities. I don't just want to fly the same plane day after day, year after year, doing the same old routine - killing cons for its own sake.
Now it naturally follows that you are always in current practice with your F4U, whereas by changing types I sometimes have to spend a period of readjustment. So your k/t k/d k/everything will be good. So they should be. You still lost 56% of your planes, and I was not much better, losing 52% of my fighters. (I score jabo separately) Now I could show you an old WB scoresheet in which I had 28 kills to only one death. It proves nothing. At the time I did that, I was testing my new rig and wanted to see how effective my LW guns were with the new processor. But for me, the flying was quite unnatural. I was just dweebing around, looking for hapless souls to kill. The only time I died was when an ack came back up underneath me, and pinged out my engine, and then some bastige shot me as I tried to ditch :(
Yes, we have a different view of fights. To you, this game is about the fights themselves. To me, the fights and kills are events which happen along the way to the ulterior objective.
I agree about the P51D. Maybe it is an easy ride in some ways. But I explained my reasons for flying it in this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45225) thread, in which I expressed disappointment with the lack of support shown by some of the other Bishops at that time, eg. being surrounded by ten friendlies and not receiving help to get a con off my six, never mind a 6-call.
I am mediocre at best but you are even worse.
I think you're making the classic error of trying to judge someone's ability by means of the scoresheet alone. The scoreboard provides only one perspective. Sit back so that your nose is no longer pressed against the monitor, wipe away the smudge mark, and try to see the big picture. And it really is a big picture with this pizza map! I can see why you're having trouble :D
Look Lazs, me old fruit - we are old buddies, remember? When I thought I was going to have to quit WB because of the gun porkage of 2.6, I paid THIS tribute to some of my favourite guys: - To my unofficial purp squadron of the morning hours, when the MA was civilised with only 50-odd people on - these for me were the best times ever, and I shared them with folks like -save-, danish, ellobo, jekkyl, helllo, jjrebl, -lazs-, senna-, kilbot, and -japan Tnx for winging with me on some truly great missions.
That was in 1998/99. Sure, I was content with air to air combat sorties back then when we flew for purple. But I have progressed. Are you sure you just want to kill con after con ad finitum/ad nauseum? Don't you ever want to progress? If you don't, that's fine, but I think you're missing out.