Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: eskimo2 on July 04, 2002, 12:56:10 PM
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I've been flying in the CT mostly for the past few months. When I've visit the MA I find/found one of the greatest differences to be the text buffer. Before 1.10 it moved way too fast to catch much. Now the clutter is gone, and I can read what folks are saying, and still catch on to who's getting kills. The best new change, however, is the addition of the killer's plane type! Very cool!
The only problem is that many squad names are so long that the plane type gets cut off. Perhaps removing/shortening the end part "... Landed XX victories in a Plane X". Maybe "Joeblow of ~~~The Pea Shooters~~~ 7 Kills > P-40 (Since we know that only landed kills are now displayed). Or, limit the number of characters for squad names.
Anyway, great new change for the ever expanding MA!
eskimo
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Or have the landed messages scroll to a second line in the buffer. Wouldna really clutter it up.
:D
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I really like it too for the same reason, plus I enjoy seeing what ride people RTB in.
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I totally agree eskimo. Less clutter and more reward for landing the kills.
Had my first 5 kill sortie in a P-40... was suprised to see the plane ID called out in the host message. It was cool.
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Totally agree, buffer is much easier to deal with now.
Nice to see what guys are flying when they land big sorties etc.
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Ya I used to squelch chan 6 as soon as I logged on. But now always lookin for what rides people are in.
Btw i saw ya 5 kill msg Mini wtg
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Tell me... why should 'landing kills' be something sought after?
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Well Nath..
You see.....
The whole point of...
eh....
it's a......
well..
Nevermind
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It strikes me that HTC changed the kill messages not to encourage or discourage landing kills, but rather to free up bandwidth. With 500 people flying before, an eight kill mission by a single player resulted in 4000 messages sent by the host. Now, not even a single message needs to be sent if the player doesn't land those kills.
The result: Lots of free bandwidth.
This design decision doesn't "vindicate" the fly-to-live crowd. I find it humorous that they believe so.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Nath[BDP]
Tell me... why should 'landing kills' be something sought after?
Mmmmm, could it be because AH is attempting to *simulate* WW2 combat and therefore rewards those who play the game as such? Obviously this new development is intended to temper those who previously had no regard for their "virtual" life and were willing to put themselves in suicidal positions simply they could rack up as many kills as possible with no thought of actually landing those kills.
These individuals were often more worried about their k/d ratio and how it could be increased as quickly as possible. This often meant diving into melees that they had no hope of surviving but nevertheless had a good chance of taking a few of the enemas down before they themselves were brought to a fiery end.
The new development with kill msgs actually rewards those who fly more as if they are taking part in real WW2 combat (at least as much as is possible within the constraints of a simulator where your life is never actually at risk) ; those who are protective of their virtual personas and , just like the overwhelming majority of real WW2 pilots, actually attempt to get home in one piece...
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
This design decision doesn't "vindicate" the fly-to-live crowd. I find it humorous that they believe so.
-- Todd/Leviathn
What you say re: the bandwidth issue is valid. But AFAIC it doesn't matter one iota what HTC's motive for making the change was. If a side-effect of that decision is that people modify their in-game behaviour so that they are more protective of their virtual alter-egos, then many of us couldn't give the proverbial rat's bellybutton what HTC's prime motivation for making the change was.It certainly doesn't reward the "elite" Spit Vb TnB crowd who were perfectly happy not to land their kills because they were bagging large numbers of victories each sortie anyway, and that can only be a good thing, IMHO...
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I still am going to fly and fight the same as ever. When I land I am either; out of ammo, out of gas, or out of cons. The vast majority of times that I make contact with the Earth, I will do so as a flaming wreck. But still, I'm glad to have the text buffer "back".
eskimo
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Originally posted by C_R_Caldwell
Mmmmm, could it be because AH is attempting to *simulate* WW2 combat and therefore rewards those who play the game as such? Obviously this new development is intended to temper those who previously had no regard for their "virtual" life and were willing to put themselves in suicidal positions simply they could rack up as many kills as possible with no thought of actually landing those kills.
These individuals were often more worried about their k/d ratio and how it could be increased as quickly as possible. This often meant diving into melees that they had no hope of surviving but nevertheless had a good chance of taking a few of the enemas down before they themselves were brought to a fiery end.
The new development with kill msgs actually rewards those who fly more as if they are taking part in real WW2 combat (at least as much as is possible within the constraints of a simulator where your life is never actually at risk) ; those who are protective of their virtual personas and , just like the overwhelming majority of real WW2 pilots, actually attempt to get home in one piece...
And? How is the MA any like WWII? If anything, flying aggressively as opposed to conservatively aids in Main Arena Strategic Success.
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The only thing I notice different is I don't need to type ".squelch 6" now to be able to read the text buffer :)
J_A_B
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And the best thing: now we need fly with brains or none will see ours 10 kills ;)
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and why is important to you that other see your kills ? ;)
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Originally posted by Hristo
and why is important to you that other see your kills ? ;)
Well Hristo, Nath, DMF....
We're not ALL Aces like you... plebs like us like to see our name in golden writing up there...
If this has the side effect you mentioned, how/why is it bad ?
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Originally posted by Saintaw
If this has the side effect you mentioned, how/why is it bad ?
Imagine a boxing match where nobody throws a punch unless they're *sure* they won't get hit back...
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Originally posted by J_A_B
The only thing I notice different is I don't need to type ".squelch 6" now to be able to read the text buffer :)
J_A_B
Heh, I still squelch it...one kill message is one too many for my tastes.
On the issue of too much text in the line, perhaps the squad info can be removed from the name entirely. For those reading the messages, I wouldn't think that info is worth while anyway.
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seems that the large map and lack of action combined with the "landed kill" feature simply free up the buffer for more inane and insipid chat.
A semi violent chat room now.
lazs
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yes, it is a welcomed addition
wtg HTC & ty
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I like it because it's a carrot rather than a stick. It doesn't force you to play in such a way that you land kills, and will certainly have no effect on people just in it for the bang bang i'm dead approach. However, at least now I don't have to hear about them!
Now, if we could just have the permanent squelch list. . .
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Originally posted by C_R_Caldwell
These individuals were often more worried about their k/d ratio and how it could be increased as quickly as possible. This often meant diving into melees that they had no hope of surviving but nevertheless had a good chance of taking a few of the enemas down before they themselves were brought to a fiery end.
Explain to me how the current kill buffer changes discourage one from doing this? If you're still K/D obsessed, the changes will do nothing to alter this behavior in those who don't care about seeing their names in the bright lights. It otherwise has no impact upon their K/D ratios.
Your statement also shows a distinct lack of understanding of how these things work. While it is theoretically possible to achieve a high K/D from diving suicidally into furballs, it's much easier and more productive to achieve it through conservative flying and careful picking and choosing of targets. I challenge you to find five pilots with very high K/D ratios and very high K/T as would be expected from the scenario you just described. Now find five pilots with high K/D and low K/T. Which do you think would be easier to spot?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by C_R_Caldwell
What you say re: the bandwidth issue is valid. But AFAIC it doesn't matter one iota what HTC's motive for making the change was. If a side-effect of that decision is that people modify their in-game behaviour so that they are more protective of their virtual alter-egos, then many of us couldn't give the proverbial rat's bellybutton what HTC's prime motivation for making the change was.It certainly doesn't reward the "elite" Spit Vb TnB crowd who were perfectly happy not to land their kills because they were bagging large numbers of victories each sortie anyway, and that can only be a good thing, IMHO...
Yes, the motives here do matter. If a design decision was made in order to reduce bandwidth with a side consequence being that it encourages flying to live more, it does not "vindicate" the flying style of those who fly to live. It may reward them relatively more often, but it does not indicate that HTC prefers that flying style.
You also haven't made it entirely clear to me how simply altering the kill buffer changes the incentives for those who enjoy killing things in Spit Vs. Their K/D will not suffer any if they continue flying as they did before. Surely you must understand this.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Well Hristo, Nath, DMF....
We're not ALL Aces like you... plebs like us like to see our name in golden writing up there...
[/B]
Then make a macro announcing your kills or something. It's not hard to counter this. And give yourself some credit, Saintaw. :)
If this has the side effect you mentioned, how/why is it bad ?
If everyone is afraid to fight for fear of possibly dying and being unable to land their kills, or if everyone refuses to engage unless they possess substantial advantages in alt, speed, or numbers, then you have hardly improved gameplay. What you have created instead is an arena full of boring, fearful pilots. Not even the cherry pickers will have cherries to pick. In addition, the behavior it creates is hardly historical, less so even than simple furballing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Would somebody at HTC please take 15 seconds and explain why you changed the kill buffer. Think of the useless arguments on the BBS it will prevent. (And BTW Leviathnn is correct as usual).
Hooligan
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DMF what you have described is a perfect definition of a "cherry picker" :D
Everyone doing it would be very boring but I don't think there's much chance in that.
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If this new system makes people more careful about thieir virtual skin, it is only good and well. I have seen enough of the suicide dweebs.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
I have seen enough of the suicide dweebs.
What exactly annoys you about the way they fly or flew? I'm asking in all honesty, because I don't see the connection between people flying suicidally and diminished enjoyment for those who fly a different way.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Well, let me take one example, happened to me just an hour ago. Im landing on a medium field with 4 kills under my belt and no damage. Great. I just want some fuel and ammo and then dive back into the furrball. There is a big furball a sector away from the field, with small fights spilling over here and there. The reason Im landing on this field (which is kinda too close to the furrball) is because I dont have fuel enough to go to the next field, and there are alot of friendlies over the field.
So, anyway, soon Im refueled and Im starting to taxi to the runway. Suddenly I get a couple of check-6 calls. I look up and see a Typhoon come in a vertical dive towards me. A second later Im in the tower.
But he got his kill...never mind the fact that he was in a near vertical dive 500feet above the ground when he got me.
Come on DMF, this must have happened to you too? Doesnt it bother you one bit?
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hortlund....are you saying that WWII fighter pilots did not fly agressively? maybe you are saying that your style proves that you could easily beat someone who is as unskilled and dweeby as say DMF and so you deserve to be given the recognition that is due you while DMF deserves to be relegated to unknown status?
Guess what? I don't care how many kill messages you get.... Everyone will still know who is the better pilot cause they see both of ya fighting. They know who is being a timid score potato and who is fighting in a skilled manner.
everyone knows who drex is but I doubt that he ever was ranked very high.
lazs
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Oh.... and of the kills I got in the new arena.... They were all much easier than I have ever had it befor.... it's just that there were fewer of em and they were harder to find. over half of em started the fight by trying to HO me. The guys that were getting kill messages were unknown to me or known easy kills.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
hortlund....are you saying that WWII fighter pilots did not fly agressively? maybe you are saying that your style proves that you could easily beat someone who is as unskilled and dweeby as say DMF and so you deserve to be given the recognition that is due you while DMF deserves to be relegated to unknown status?
Guess what? I don't care how many kill messages you get.... Everyone will still know who is the better pilot cause they see both of ya fighting. They know who is being a timid score potato and who is fighting in a skilled manner.
everyone knows who drex is but I doubt that he ever was ranked very high.
lazs
Lazs...where did this come from? Did you sit down on a cattle prod or something?
First, Im not saying that ww2 pilots didnt fly agressively. I dont think many of them were so eager to get a kill that they suicided into the concrete of some enemy runway just to get one kill of some taxiing aircraft.
Second, Im not saying ANYTHING about my style of flying, nor am I saying anything about my skill. I havent said anyting about me being a better pilot than anyone. Get off my back already.
And Lasz, we both know who the score-potato in this conversation is, mr "all I care about is K/T".
As for who is the better pilot, well, all I can do is my best..right?
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I like the new kill message only if you land it. Only prob is the text sometimes gets truncated.
Also HT should make it so that if you bail out or ditch over friendly you also get the kill recognition. So long as you lived on that sortie.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
So, anyway, soon Im refueled and Im starting to taxi to the runway. Suddenly I get a couple of check-6 calls. I look up and see a Typhoon come in a vertical dive towards me. A second later Im in the tower.
But he got his kill...never mind the fact that he was in a near vertical dive 500feet above the ground when he got me.
Come on DMF, this must have happened to you too? Doesnt it bother you one bit?
Hortland,
I know that this question was not directed at me, but you seem to think that no one could not be bothered by such an act.
Would I be anoyed in such an incident? Sure, for about 5 seconds (which is how long it takes me to click "Fly" again). The truth is, I am a bit anoyed when ever I get killed and my own stupidity contributed to it. But I play to have fun, not to be anoyed, so I simply don't take things too seriously and have learned to "get over it".
Honestly, I have been in the exact same situation (both as the attacker and victom) and can recall laughing each time. "Good for you dweeb, I can't believe you pulled that off!" would be my thoughts (of either myself or the other guy).
I'm telling you, if you want a good laugh, dive right into a heavily defended base and blast some poor SOB on the re-arm pad with a dozen guys chasing you. You will laugh your bellybutton off too! The fact that the guy probably thought he was safe makes it all the funnier.
eskimo
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Oh and while Im at it I think bombers should get their own custom kill message if they complete a bomb run, hit targets and live (which is even more rare than fiter missions).
Heck why not give GV drivers and gooney flyers their own for base capture etc...
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Come on DMF, this must have happened to you too? Doesnt it bother you one bit?
Sure, I think something like this has happened to everyone. It really doesn't bother me a bit. If he wants to tempt fate by diving into ack to attempt strafing me, more power to him. I've probably gotten as many kills on guys like that as they've gotten on me thanks to their wingless, ack-riddled planes crashing to the ground beside me.
The fact that you've also used an example from just an hour ago demonstrates that the new kill buffer does not adequately dissuade players from engaging in this type of behavior. The kind of person who would dive wantonly into ack in order to get a single vulch kill is probably not the kind of person who cares about landing or even seeing his name in the kill buffer. He just wants a kill, any kill, any way possible. Ack and kill buffers be damned!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Hortlund
First, Im not saying that ww2 pilots didnt fly agressively. I dont think many of them were so eager to get a kill that they suicided into the concrete of some enemy runway just to get one kill of some taxiing aircraft.
I'd be willing to venture that many of them did die this way -- via ack at airfields or by miscalculating and hitting the dirt while attempting to strafe ground targets. Gabby Gabreski was captured after clipping his prop on the ground during a strafing/vulching mission, forcing him to ditch his plane at the airfield he was attempting to destroy. It happened to even the best of the best pilots.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I know several pilots who land now instead of going for that one extra kill.
And what I said was "If" this changes some pilot behavior Im all for it.
Because it pisses me off royally to have someone suicide just to shoot me on the runway.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
I know several pilots who land now instead of going for that one extra kill.
And what I said was "If" this changes some pilot behavior Im all for it.
Because it pisses me off royally to have someone suicide just to shoot me on the runway.
What if he gets you but doesn't die himself?
Is that OK?
eskimo
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Still pisses me off :)
but it would be ok I suppose, if he managed to beat the field acks, as well as a couple of friendlies flying cap over the base, then he deserved the kill.
Note that Im not talking about me trying to up from a vulched base here, or me trying to refuel on a base under attack...those are classical "blame it on yourself"-situations.
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I would think so, eskimo. However he's talking about someone that's in a 100% sure auger dive, no chance to recover. Not someone just trying to luck through the ack. At least that's the impression I got. (otherwise why would it be suicide?)
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If your virtual life doesn't matter to you, why should kill buffer ? You are virtually dead anyway ;)
You can still take the time to type on channel 1 if others really have to know about your unlanded kills.
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log on icq you popsicle.
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I think Hortlund is "Judge Mental".
:)
eskimo
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I am flattered, but maybe you should try with a girl first ;)
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hell... i'm talking to poopster.
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why you lookin at me then ?
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Because you are absurdly ugly.
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turns ya on, eh ?
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I would rather see kill buffer messages than all the inane and insipid channel one chat.
I also liked knowing where people were by their kill buffer messages.
I do like the fact that your plane type is part of the message now.
I would like it the way it was but with plane type noted as it is now.
lazs
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Looks around ...
Did someone say something to me ??
nopoop
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Damn it!
Laz, they just won't play the way you want 'em to. Bastards. :D
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I really like it too, I've unsquelched channel 6 for the first time since playing AH.
Really good idea imo. :)
Also different thing but the buff boxette's are awesome, what a blast trying to bomb, and the way it's setup now..
Great stuff.
Originally posted by eskimo2
I've been flying in the CT mostly for the past few months. When I've visit the MA I find/found one of the greatest differences to be the text buffer. Before 1.10 it moved way too fast to catch much. Now the clutter is gone, and I can read what folks are saying, and still catch on to who's getting kills. The best new change, however, is the addition of the killer's plane type! Very cool!
The only problem is that many squad names are so long that the plane type gets cut off. Perhaps removing/shortening the end part "... Landed XX victories in a Plane X". Maybe "Joeblow of ~~~The Pea Shooters~~~ 7 Kills > P-40 (Since we know that only landed kills are now displayed). Or, limit the number of characters for squad names.
Anyway, great new change for the ever expanding MA!
eskimo
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You think a kill message change is going to blunt egos enough to make this crowd timid and non-aggressive?.....yeah, right.
We are all virtual pilots, we all think we are pretty toejam hot ( c'mon...you do, admit it) and we are all as eager to prove it to the guy with the red icon as we ever were.
Before, I squelched 6 on entry to the arena, so no kills but mine mattered to me anyway, now, I dont bother squelching 6, 'cause there is no need, now I see who landed a multi kill sortie and in what...still means jack toejame to me in 99% of cases ( xxxxxxx landed a 6 kill sortie in a Ju88, or Val, or 234 or something would make me sit up and take notice , the same in a Nik, Spit, 190, G10 etc etc, wouldnt)
If having your name up in lights means that much to you, land the sortie, shouldnt be a problem if you are half as good as you would like everyone to think you are.
If that takes too much time, and you are really in it for the 'trigger time' anyway, it wont mean a thing either way if the world sees your name or not.
Blue
PS..the use of the word 'you' in this post is a generalisation, I am not referring to, or replying to, any one particular person.
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braz.. no, they don't allways do things the way I want at first. Sometimes it takes years for them to get it right.
lazs (or maybe you were talking to that insipid laz/lazer guy?)
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Yep I really like this new system much better.
What I notice is that players don't land kills much and that GV's and Field/Ship Gunners do really well.
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are you saying that WWII fighter pilots did not fly agressively?
-Lazs
Actually, most weren't. I once saw a rough statistic regarding the number pilots who aggressively engaged during WW2 vs those who didn't and it was low. Also, most kills were made by only a few pilots of those who actually saw combat. This is a game not to be mistaken with the fears of real life-and-death battles. I respect each and every combat veteran whether they earned a victory or not. The trouble here is that entertainment is subjective and varies by degrees.
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I would love to see how they came up with a statistic that showed that most pilots were not aggressive. I am only going by what the guys who flew and lived said.. far be it for me to call em liars. In any case... It was not at all unusual for fighter pilots to act aggressively. That is all I am saying.
To justify being timid in a game by slurring real fighter pilots is not real cool IMO.
lazs
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I'm much more likely to notice how well someone's sortie went now than before. Was information overload before and I tended to ignore kill messages completely. I like the new system.
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I would love to see how they came up with a statistic that showed that most pilots were not aggressive.
It came from WW2 pilots. A simple regurgitation of what was said is that in any squadron you knew there was a small percentage of guys out there making the kills and getting in the thick of things and a few who were along for the ride but weren't aggressive like we always see in Hollywood.
Maybe "statistic" was misleading because it wasn't scientific, but it comes from a discourse with pilots who were there and was their opinion.
I don't hold any disrespect for the real pilots. It was real life and death.
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Fighter pilots were very aggressive. That doesnt mean that like to die either.
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fighter pilots were aggressive. I don't think most of em thought they could die.
iron... I ignore the kill messages now. The "overload" is all the inane chat that has taken it's place. I don't care how someone did on a "sortie" but I would like to maybe know who it is I am/did fight. I also liked to be able to locate people by the kill buffer. I do like the new way that plane type is mentioned but the new version is useless info other than that. They took the usefulness out of the kill buffer and replaced it with....... chat.
lazs
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lazs, I agree that channel 1 is mostly filled with drivel, depending on what the squad is up to I either squelch ch 1 or just the 1 or 2 individuals filling up 90% of the buffer. While it was easier to learn who was in the fight before, I have no problem finding out by asking. That doesn't mean I'll ask for directions though. ;)