Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Soviet on July 05, 2002, 12:52:15 AM
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I have to say that i absolutly LOVE the D3A1 and SBD dive bombers. I think it's time stukas are modeled for AH :D
I'd love to see one in AH.
Actually you could model all 3 major variants fairly easily.
The Ju-87B would be great for BoB scenarios and for an early war German Dive bomber. The Ju-87D is a later Stuka which has a more powerful engine, an increased defensive armorment (from 1 Mg15 in the Ju-87B to a MG-81Z twin 7mm mount.) The Ju-87D is very similar to the Ju-87B in visual characteristics (With a few minor changes). The Ju-87G is basically a Ju-87D with 2 37mm guns strapped underneath (These guns would MURDER panzers)
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Stuka in Operation
Most dive bombers give their pilots the sensation of diving vertically but the Stuka did genuinely plummet earthwards at a true 90 degrees angle.Indicator marks on the starboard side of the cockpit side screen ran from 30 to 90 degrees to enable the pilot to judge the angle correctly.From its level flight speed of 255 mph (410 km/h) the Stuka accelerated to 335 mph (540 km/h) as it dived some 4,500 ft (1,370 m).Its maximum permitted speed was 373 mph (600 km/h).The Stuka's acceleration was progressive its fixed undercarriage provided by the dive brakes.Less awkward dive bombers such as the Douglas Dauntless accelerated like a rocket when they dived with a full bombload.It was this ability to make such a controlled vertical dive the enabled the Stuka to deliver heavy bombs with greater precision then any other aircraft of the war.As he dived the pilot kept an eye on the contact altimeter.It had an indicator which lit up when it was time to initiate the automatic pull-out.This brought the Stuka back to level flight at 6g (six times the force of gravity) descending another 1,475 ft (450 m) in the process.The control column had a safety device limiting it to 5 degrees of movement from neutral , stopping the pilot from pulling too much g during a pull-out.This could be overridden in an emergency-a hard tug on the control column brought the Stuka out of its dive.The minimum authorized altitude for starting a dive bombing attack was 800 m (2,624 ft) : a lower cloud base restricted the Ju 87 to level attacks.
Bombload
If a target was close enough the Stuka could deliver a formidable bombload.The Ju 87 could carry a 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bomb for a short range mission : the sort of bombload carried by twin-engined aircraft through World War II and not far off that carried by American four-engine bombers during the strategic bombing of Germany.Combat experience in Russia demonstrated that hitting a tank with a heavy bomb was next to impossible even for a Stuka.On the Russian front the standard anti-tank weapon was the SD-4-H1 a 4 kg hollow-charge bomblet.Seventy eight were carried inside a 500 kg bomb case.The bomblets could penetrate the thin top armour of any Allied tank-even the massive JS-2s used by the Red Army's in 1945.More spectacular but fraught with danger for the aircrew was one of the final Stuka models : the Ju 87G-1. Introduced in 1943 , this carried a pair of 37-mm cannon which could also penetrate the top armour of a tank but the weight and drag further reduced the Stuka's already marginal performance.
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The Ju-87D was able to carry a 1800kg bomb for short missions! this would be very cool in AH
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agreed!:D
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Well, those 37mm flak guns are only effective from very close and if hit the right spot.
If you've read Rudel's book he states that there were very very few who could actually kill tanks in it. In AH that maybe be different though :).
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still, a cool plane...had great moment when I killed a F4U4 in WB with 37mm once ;)
Also, some Stuka models had MG151/20s.
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Who got info about La-5/7 ace who tried to shoot Rudels plane down but spinned in tight turn and crashed to ground...?
Ju87G1 cannons got small ammo load, only 12 rounds...
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I distantly remember a story. Rudel and his gunner were listening to Soviet radio communication. Apparently, there was a lot of cheering when they were attacked by a single La. Rudel's gunner was firing and it was unclear what exactly happened. The cheering turned into cries and disbelief, while La was falling for the ground.
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What model of Ju-87d had 2 Mg151/20 in wings? Was it D-5?
Yes,
Ju 87B-1 and JU87D(-5?) would be good choices.
G-1 was actually just Ju 87D-5 with 2x3.7cm Flaks underwing. So 2x BK 3.7 could be as weapon option.
AFAIK D-5 differs from B-1 externally by having greater wingspan and more aerodynamic cockpit.
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The Soviet fighter ace Polkovnik (Colonel) Lev Shestakov became legendary already during his lifetime. After the war, Vladimir Lavrinenkov (twice appointed Hero of the Soviet Union, credited with 35 + 11 kills), wrote a book - His Call code - Sokol (Falcon) 1 - about Shestakov.
Having drawn his first blood as a fighter pilot in the Spanish Civil War, Lev Shestakov flew in defense of Odessa as commander of 69 IAP (Fighter Aviation Regiment) in the first months of the Russo-German war.
The losses dealt to the Romanian Air Force above Odessa in 1941 by Shestakov's fighter pilots compelled the Romanian High Command to withdraw its entire air force from the Eastern Front.
A few months later, no less than twelve pilots of 69 IAP were awarded as Heroes of the Soviet Union. 69 IAP was adopted a guard's unit as 9 GIAP. During the Battle of Stalingrad, 9 GIAP became the first real "ace unit" when some of the most successful Soviet fighter aces of that time were posted to 9 GIAP.
Lev Shestakov eventually carried out more than 200 missions during the war, took part in 32 aerial combats and was credited with 26 kills before being killed in action in March 1944.
According to Lavrinenkov's book, Lev Shestakov fought a private war with a well-known German Stuka ace - a Kurt Renner, who was awarded the "Golden Knight's Cross".
No such Stuka ace existed, but the famous Stuka flyer Hans-Ulrich Rudel - who served in the same operational area as did Shestakov - was the only person to be awarded the Knight's Cross with the Golden Oak Leaves.
Interestingly, Lavrinenkov, who joined Shestakov's 9 GIAP in the fall of 1942, describes how he once met Rennerí on the ground. On August 23, 1943, Lavrinenkov's Airacobra was hit by debris from a FW 189 that he had shot down. Lavrinenkov bailed out over enemy-held territory and was captured by the Germans. He was brought to the Stalino airfield, where he claims to have been introduced to "Renner". According to Lavrinenkov, "Renner" had thought that the Soviet POW was Shestakov, because he had flown the Airacobra with call-code 01, indicating that it was the unit commander's aircraft. Later, Lavrinenkov managed to escape from a POW transport due to Germany, joined a partisan detachment and eventually managed to make it back to the regular Soviet troops, where he re-joined 9 GIAP and took up combat flights again.
During this time, Hauptmann Hans-Ulrich Rudel (appointed commander of III./St.G. 2 Immelmann in September 1943) was stationed in Stalino.
During the first months of 1944, Lev Shestakov was hunting a Ju 87 "with a viper painted along its fuselage sides" - assuming that this conspicuos aircraft was flown by "Renner". Major Rudel certainly flew a Ju 87 G - one of the few Ju 87s still active in 1944 - over the same battlefields as Shestakov during this time. Due to his considerable successes against Soviet tanks, Rudel was a highly coveted prey among the Soviet fighter pilots - as confirmed in Rudel's autobiography. Until March 1944, Rudel was credited with the destruction of more than 200 Soviet tanks and was awarded with the Diamonds to his Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords.
A Ju 87 G armed with 37mm anti-tank cannon.
According to the Soviet version, on March 13, 1944, Lev Shestakov finally caught the Ju 87 he had been hunting for so long. Hit by a burst from Shestakov's La-5FN from short distance, the Ju 87 exploded in mid-air. But Shestakov didn't live to celebrate his victory. According to the Soviet report, his Lavochkin was thrown into a spin from the explosion and the famous ace fell toward his death.
In reality, Rudel survived the war. No other famous Stuka ace was killed on March 13, 1944, nor is it known that Rudel ever flew a Ju 87 with a viper painted on its fuselage side (although he used a Ju 87 with a chevron and two horizontal bars painted on the fuselage side, which was quite unsusual in the Stuka units).
It is quite possible that the Soviet account is an attempt to add glory to the event when one of the highest esteemed fighter pilots was killed in a fight with a single Ju 87.
In his autobiography, Hans-Ulrich Rudel recalls how his Ju 87 once came under attack from an excellent La-5 pilot:
"I just can't understand how he manages to follow my sharp turns in his fighter aircraft," wrote Rudel. Rudel started preparing himself for the final end, as he suddenly heard his rear-gunner, Stabsarzt Ernst Gadermann, cry over the R/T: "Got the Lag!" Rudel continues: "Was he shot down by Gadermann, or did he go down because of the backwash from my engine during these tight turns? It doesn't matter. My headphones suddenly exploded in confused screams from the Russian radio; the Russians have observed what happened and something special seems to have happened... From the Russian radio-messages, we discover that this was a very famous Soviet fighter pilot, more than once appointed as Hero of the Soviet Union."
From
Black Cross Red Star (http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/bc-rs/lev.html)
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Originally posted by illo
AFAIK D-5 differs from B-1 externally by having greater wingspan and more aerodynamic cockpit.
Intake is a bit different too
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I need it.
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Would be fun to dive and hear that siren "Jericho Trumpet" sound... :p
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Originally posted by Dr Zhivago
Who got info about La-5/7 ace who tried to shoot Rudels plane down but spinned in tight turn and crashed to ground...?
Ju87G1 cannons got small ammo load, only 12 rounds...
Oh yes, I recall once these guns got my 109F in WB, but that's all I recall from Stuka's; another hangar queen. Would be great in scenarios, tho...
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IMHO the Stuka and the He-111 are the most sorely needed aircraft in AH (for the Euro front)... now
Few more IJN/IJA Aircraft and the Pac front will be ready too.
...err, looking from the scenario perspective.
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The D3a1 and SBD are hanger queens but they still get a lot of use in the MA :D Now dive bombers are very valuable in the MA due to it's precision bombing.
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BRING THE TRUMPETS OF JERICHO TO AH!!!!!!!!!!
:D