Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hooligan on July 05, 2002, 12:54:19 PM
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Our squad email list has been alive with negative comments about it. As far as I can tell, nobody in my squad likes it.
Now, I think I would love the new map if we had 4 times the player base. The only problem is that it is too large (including too many fields). I really like the graphics, the distribution of fields, the canyons etc... However with the current map I can get into about half as many fights per hour (or less) as I used to be able to. This is a real problem for me.
I expect that over time things will improve but I honestly think that a map this size containing this many fields is not viable for the number of players currently in the MA.
I just wanted to make sure that HTC knew that for everybody in our squad, this map is a big problem.
Hooligan
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Whiney :D
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wow wat a positive post. Yet -another- thread about 1.10 map.
Yawn.
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folks are just spoiled by the huge numbers of folks in main over the last few tours.
I came to ah around tour 3 125 - 150 folks in the 256 x 256 map there wasnt non stop 50 kills per hour. Folks milkran, furballed and cherry picked.
a 15 man furball was huge.
then we started getting 200 - 250 in the main things were pretty balanced and every type could find their fun.
Then 300 - 350 u felt it gettin crowded.
One day last week we had over 500 folks in a 256 x 256 terrain
Onside had 100 more players then the other 2. We had fronts with 3 - 4 fields facing each other. AH wasnt always that way. It wasnt that way when you came and switched from your other sim. At some point the arena has to get larger to accomodate more folks. Or split into 2 arenas. Eitherway you deplete the numbers and the days of 200 folks piled into 3 sectors are over.
I was on earlier at 12 noon eastern on weekday there was 300 folks online and 2 huge fights. Not pre 1.1 huge but 25 guys.
I dunno where you are gonna go to find 60 kills per hour. WB dont have it, wwiiol dont have it. Maybe an il2 df server.
I would bet that kills per time, while not near as high as when 400 were crammed in a 256 x 256 arena, are higher then when there was 150 in 256 x 256.
Clip board clutter and the terrain alt need to be adjusted but I dont think that going bac to the small terrains would be better.
I would like to see the strat zones set to early, mid, late war planesets. It could be done with this map.
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I know how you feel about all the whining Ram,but this post isn't in the same catagory. This kind of discourse I can handle.
I certainly don't mind some polite, well intentioned criticism. He makes a valid point.
Somethings have to be tried so you can figure out what works, and what doesn't.
We're like the first row of guys out of the Higgin's boat on Omaha beach. They always get mowed down like flys.(see private Ryan?) But unfortunately, someone has to be that first wave so the second wave can get on shore. :)
Regards,
Wab
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Wotan
Being one of those in Hooligans squad, it's not a matter that we are not satisfied without getting 5-7 kills sorties. Alot of us only have time for about 1 or 2 quick sorties, we like those sorties to be action packed and close remember most of us are only online for 30-60 minutes.
Ak
this map would be awesome for about 700-800 players, i do like it just not now. The map has some great features, I am not a big fan of the splotchy ground but that is just nitpicking.
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
I certainly don't mind some polite, well intentioned criticism. He makes a valid point.
BS Wabb, all complainers must die!!! ;)
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>BS Wabb, all complainers must die!!!
OK. You talked me into it.
Hooligan! Up against the wall! (slaps in a mgazine, pull charging bolt...)
Taka taka taka taka taka
Oooooh. I DO feel better now. Thanks. ;)
Wab
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my point is what didja do when there was 200 folks in a 256 x 256?
I understand the point about wanting a good hours worth of action. But what we had in the main the past few tours isnt representative of ah since it began. Or any other game.
over 500 folks online at 1 time in a 256 x 256 map with 3-4 base fronts.
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Wab, thanks for taking the lead for us...you are correct, we don't know unless we try.
How hard would it be to make a scaled down version of this map, with the altitude fixes in place? I do like the desert map with the canyons.
Also, this is being called the "pizza" map, where the hell do you guys get your pizza with green cheese? This map does bring back college flashbacks...."hey, that pizza is still good, don't toss it, and save that chunky milk!"
P.S. Anyone ever look into a Caribbean map? Would have a little of everything. I did try the terrain editor but it kept crashing on me. Sometimes the "real" maps make gameplay easier.
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I dont like the new map either.
Too crowded with fields. Cluttered actually.
Not enough variance for CVs.
Too many fields for too few players.
Fly a long time trying to find a fight.
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Wotan, 200 in a 256x256 map is the equivalent of 800 in a 512x512 map. What we're seeing now is more like 100-125 in a 256x256 map. Only time I've ever seen that few online was early in the morning US time. Even then, I usually found a good fight, or I wouldn't have been online at 3 am...
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Wab, look at this (http://www.geocities.com/ccolefax/)
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Man you guys are spoiled. On normal euro times there are 70-80 ppl in the MA.
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>Wab, look at this
I'm not sure what you mean 10bears? You intend that link to be a POV site?
I've played with POV before but its been years.
I mostly use 3dStudio Max now. Not very good yet but I'm learning.
(btw, the pizza clipboard map was rendered in Max instead of the built in editor method. Used the elevation bmp as a bumpmap)
Wab
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just multipling by 4 doesnt give you an accurate example of gameplay.
Theres still only so much action per hour of time online. With 500 on a 256 x 256 map and three small fronts you are guarranteed a level of instant action unmatched even if this map had 2000 folks flying on it. Count how many fronts and bases per front.
The map with a1 in the middle spread the fight out much more then say mindinao or the ute map.
Folks right now are using the new planes and trying the buffs. They arent necessarily seeking out the fights. After a bit choke points will develope and and the furballs will return. I had great fights to day.
But I understand what I like doesnt apply to everyone else.
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Some people hate the new map because they liked the insta-action quakeballs, and fear this map doesn't concentrate the fight enough (although, the bigger the furball, the more warping...)...
Some people hate the new map because they want real world based terrain. Despite the real world having several shortcomings in terms of fair/equal gameplay for all sides.
Some people like this new map because it offers strategy. Some people like this new map because it offers multiple types of fighting. Some areas with low alt, some areas with high alt, some areas GV only... etc.
You can't please everyone, the guys who made this map did the best they could with the resources available.
-SW
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ANd Swulfe, some people hate the map because they like playing in a variety of ways: furballing, deep penetration raids, long-range patrols, challenging field captures, ground vehicle battles, and the current arrangement of the map offers NONE of that.
You can't expect something untested to come out perfect, and I don't think this map needs to be trashed. Just tweaked a little.
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It offers none of what? I have played this map online with 300 people, I have seen all of what you have listed as not being offered on this map.
Saying that it doesn't offer any of that is rediculous, as it offers all of that. Maybe the players are the ones who aren't doing anything and it's not actually the map?
-SW
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>ground vehicle battles
You don't think this map offers any gv battles?
Wab
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Maybe the players are the ones who aren't doing anything and it's not actually the map?
-SW
................... ya think? :D
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Its perfect for a bomber sim. Thats a ........oh.........never mind.
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Our squad email list has been alive with negative comments about it. As far as I can tell, nobody in my squad likes it.
Now, I think I would love the new map if we had 4 times the player base. The only problem is that it is too large (including too many fields). I really like the graphics, the distribution of fields, the canyons etc... However with the current map I can get into about half as many fights per hour (or less) as I used to be able to. This is a real problem for me.
Hooligan, I'm sure you understand this, but the 512x512 map with current field density is a HTC decision.
And while I'm not privvy to HTC's thoughts on the matter, I'm pretty sure they moved us from 256x256 maps to 512x512 maps because of the bandwidth issue. 300+ participants on the Ndisles or Mindanao maps created gigantic bandwidth problems.
If you like furballs, you can always find one - but you do have to look -- ie, they're not everywhere as they were on Mindanao. The new clipboard feature (i) makes it easy to find areas of dense airplane concentration.
curly
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I hated the old maps
I had very little fun participating in a 50 person furball. Maybe if it was historically correct, but not when my G10 gets nailed by a Niki or my P47 gets bounced by a Mustang
The few times I've played since 1.10 was released, I found some decent sized furballs where you could actually use some decent ACM. Reminds me of pre-AW-demise days back when the arena wasn't packed
Maybe there should be a center island like in the ndisles map where people could furball en masse but leave the rest of the map alone.
My only gripe with it is that it's too damn bright. Reminds me of these stupid hot Cape Cod days when you need sunglasses to survive. A long time ago hitech mentioned that maps could possibly have multiple tilesets so that we could see winter, summer, fall, and spring versions of each map. I'd really like to see a green version of this one.
Just my thoughts.
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Curly:
I realize that the map was designed to meet HTC's criteria which is why I am squeaking at them instead of you evil AKs. However you are wrong when you say you can always find a decent fight on this map. You couldn't on the old map either but it was much more likely. Yesterday and the day before I couldn't find any good fights. Today I found plenty. One day in three doesn't cut it for me and I realize that things will change in some ways as players get acclimated to the maps. This is no guarantee that they will change in ways I like. I just wanted to let HTC know how it was affecting the guys in my squad. And plenty of people have come to the BBS and expressed similar frustrations, so it's not just us. Maybe tonight's action will be more typical than what we experienced the 2 previous nights. I guess we'll see.
Hooligan
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Love the new map - lots for everybody if they go look. Thanks for putting in the hard work. Really high bases cause you to think for at least a moment on plane type. Great GV spawn points. Lots to learn. :)
My only suggestion for an improvement is a review of the field numbering system. It is kind of hard to respond to:
Alert 112!! :confused:
Can somebody get an M3 to 72 now please? :confused:
Oh no! they just got 246!:confused:
I don't really have any great suggestion at the moment. Perhaps a Zonal numbering/naming system? Perhaps at the next dark-hooded AK meeting (candles burning all round and is that the smell of goat entrails? :D ) you can get a few heads together and think about it.
This would be a boon to both strat players and furballers:
"Where is all the action?" :cool:
"Furball at E21 and I still need an M3 at W72 dammit!" ;)
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>and is that the smell of goat entrails?
No, thats just Curly. :eek:
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I cant say that I did back flips when I saw the map...
BUT!
I have yet to see anything else offered up.
This map is an excellent starting point and my hat is off to the AK's (even though Im not supposed to like them cause they suck) They did an excellent job meeting HTC's requirements and had it done long before 1.10 was released. I cannot even imagine the work that went into that project. You guys ever post how many man hours you put into it? Im sure there will be more maps that meet these criteria released in the future.
The sad thing is that HTC has REALLY spoiled you guys with quality and customer service, so much so that if something is even slightly questionable you're at his throat about it. Hell of a reward for being the best.
STFU already