Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: bloom25 on July 05, 2002, 10:07:40 PM
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I just installed a GF4 Ti 4200 (64 MB) in my own system. There's an odd problem though, and I think I know what it is, but I figured I'd run it by you guys and see if anyone has seen it before.
Everything works perfect after a cold boot, but a "warm boot" (i.e. restart or reset) will result in a failure to boot properly with just a rainbow colored screen or it will flash different colors. If I leave the system off for a while and cold boot it, then it works great. (75 fps with 4x antialiasing on ;) )
System is:
1300 Athlon Tbird
Asus A7V MB (bios 1.06)
300W Sparkle power supply
384 MB PC 133 SDram.
(new vcard: MSI GF 4 Ti 4200 64 MB)
old card: Asus V7700 Deluxe (GF 2 GTS 32 MB VIVO)
etc
I'm thinking the power supply is the problem here. I know the video card works fine once the system starts (I played AH offline for 45 minutes until I decided to reboot after installing the AH 1.101 update.) The system itself has been absolutely rock solid stable in the past.
I'm going to pick up a 340W or 400W Enlight power supply tomorrow and see what that does. It seems the most likely culprit, but I wanted to see if any of you have seen this before.
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I get the same problem (rainbow colored screen) with my Gainward gForce3 Ti200 64 once in awhile. I just figured it was because I have every thing overclocked as much as possible.
C900> 1167
Abit BX6 r2.1
384 ram
Card Core Clock.. 235 MHz
Memory Core Clock..535 MHz
Refresh .. 100
1280x1024 .. happens mostly at this setting
1024x768 (when using 3D glasses) .. doesn't happen much.
Power Supply ..300 watt
Hadn't happen that I remember using the new 29.42's drivers
I just hit the reset button and all goes away .. doesn't happen very often .. I just attribute it to OC'ing .. and I don't worry about it.
sprint
*MOL*
:cool:
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I'm running at stock speeds. It seems the problem occurs on cold boots as well. Eventually the system will boot and work fine if I keep hitting reset, but something odd is going on. I think I'll try another larger powersupply (I'll use it later when I build myself a newer system), but I'm not so sure this is going to fix the problem.
It looks like the GF 4 Ti cards are extremely troublesome in general. I've been browsing forums all over the place and though I haven't seen this exact problem, there are a lot of common issues with the GF 4 cards.
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Funny .. right after I posted it happen twice as I was restarting .. but both times that happen after I was playing Aces High at 1280x1024 and my dektop is 1024 .. wonder if that has any thing to do with it. But this time my screen was a solid green, hit the reset button and no problem. Oh well.
sprint
PS. btw .. congrats on your graduation
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Speaking of GF 4
Im only getting 40 fps out of my Gf4 Ti4600. My squadmate gets 60 out of his Gf3 Ti200.
My system AMD XP 2100
Gigabyte GA-7DX
512 mb PC2100 DDR
100 GB 7200 RPM 8MB CACHE
1280 x 1024 32bit
Its not really giving me any trouble, i just thought my fps would be higher. Any thoughts?
:D
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Sounds like you your running your monitor at a refresh rate of 80 and have v-sync on.
Try running/using Quincunx Antialsing and turn the vertical sync mode to render no more than 3 frames
ahead.
What resolution are you using? ..try using a refresh rate of 100 if your monitor will support it.
sprint
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If you do get a powersupply I wouldn't get anything less than a 400 watt these days, 450 if you can spare the coin.
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Did you figure this one out yet Bloom?
AKDejaVu
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Video cards use ALOT of poer. 300 watt power supply is borderline at best for the systems I see described above. Also you need to be sure your power supply puts out the proper amperage - 300 watt supplies are as likely as not to not be up to spec for today's hardware.
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It looks to me like either it's a bad card (which is strange, because once Windows is booted it has worked perfectly), or maybe a flaw in the GF 4 reference board design itself. (This MSI card is the nVidia reference design, right down to the silkscreening. ;) ) It turns out literally hundreds of posts are all over different forums with GF 4 Ti issues similar to mine, and this is on virtually every type of motherboard regardless of Intel or AMD supporting. The only setup I've found that seems to have almost no issues with the GF 4 Ti cards is the nVidia nForce boards.
My system has been up over 24 hours now once I replaced the entire case and power supply with a 400W Enlight, so I'm really doubting the card itself is defective though... Unfortunately the problem is still there if attempting a "warm boot."
I'm planning on upgrading my system very soon, which will include a new MB, processor, and RAM in the near future. If the problem is still present I plan to RMA the card. For now as long as I don't restart my system or try to boot it if the system hasn't been sitting for an hour or so everything works fine.
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Bloom is your fan operational and is it moving enough air? Have ya tried heat sinks on the ram chips? Sound like a heat problem to me, or a voltage problem after your power supply warms up.
Does your old video card work correctly if ya still have it?
Since this guy runs warmed are you having a heat build up in your system case?
Just some ideas and wonderments !
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Here's a thought bloom. Some motherboards are having problems with high current video cards. Wonder if that is the issue?
The Intel spec for AGP power is 48W max, but that will depend on the motherboard being designed to allow that much power to the AGP bus.
Just a thought.
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Slash,
with your system you should get at least 80-100fps (at 1280, 32bit and FSAA at 2X). Check if you have v-sync on (it will limit fps to your monitor vertical sync rate) or the fps limiter in the setup/video settings of AH (unlimited, 60 or 40fps are selectable).
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Heat is not the issue here unfortunately. I tried running with the case open (my system is WELL ventilated regardless ;) ) as it still is.
I think I should clarify that the problem is an initialization issue before the system even POSTs on "warm" startups. ("Warm" meaning a reboot or immediate shutdown and restart.) I think Skuzzy is closest to the mark on this one.
My opinion is the GF 4 Ti cards overtax the boards voltage regulators, and that accounts for many of the issues people are having. The GF 4 Ti and Radeon 8500 series cards are the first to use 1.5V (AGP 2.0) for both signalling and power to the GPU core itself. Older cards used 3.3V and regulated that on the card itself to the GPU core voltage. (It's worth mentioning that Power=V*I (I -> current (Amps) V-> voltage)) The GF 4 cards have a typical power dissipation of around 50 - 60W, meaning 40A @ 1.5V. I'm sure this is too much for a lot of boards.
My problem is probably related, but this isn't it; as it works perfectly as long as you don't restart the system or try to power it up immediately after a shutdown. My opinion is trace layout, capacitance, or inductance on either my MB or graphics card is causing problems.
It doesn't matter much now though, I picked up an Asus A7N266-C board (new revision with CPU overheat protection) and some PC2100 DDR Ram. All I have left to get is the CPU itself. If the problem is still there I'll just RMA this card and try another.
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Hmmmm bloom,..I hope those video cards are not dissipating that much power. The max power spec for the AGP bus V2.0 is 48W.
I know ATI had to go back and do another layout of the PCB for the R300 as the first pass violated the 48W spec. They barely got it under that on the second revision.
Surely NVidia would not violate this spec. It would break a significant number of motherboards.
You may want to check the power yourself. If it is above 48W, then NVidia is violating the spec.
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The cards are rated below 48W *typical*, but peak is going to be higher...
I'll see if I can find some more info.
Regardless, I bought an XP 1900+, 2 x 256 MB PC2100 Corsair, and Asus A7N266-C board. I'm going to see if the problem is still there. I think it's likely my old Asus A7V (2 years old now) just wasn't designed with cards like this in mind.
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The problem isn't present on my new nForce board. (Which I just got running about an hour ago.) I've got a long way to go before I get everything installed, but all seems to be running great. :)
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Try another driver. My son gets that rainbow thing on his geforce2 often after waking up from power saving.
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Thanks gatt
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Same deal here, Gigabyte motherboard (which has a nice sticker that reads "FULLY COMPATIBLE with nVIDIA GEFORCE 4 MX4(NV17) SERIES" (that cover the GeForce 4 4600?
Now, my bios is all a mess. For some reason, my new dilemma is after about 1 minute of anything 3D...Aces High, 3DMark, etc, I lock up.
Ideas? I'm about to tell Tom's Hardware what I think of their advice... :mad:
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I remember typing in some thread that perhaps that series of Gigabyte board had issues with GF 4 cards. I've looked at a lot of different forums over the past few days, http://www.viaarena.com and anandtech to name a couple and this seems to be a common issue.
This isn't a VIA chipset issue, since lots of people have got the GF 4 cards to work, but rather it seems to be an issue with the MBs themselves. I personally think the issue is related to power or possibly a flaw in the GF 4 design itself that keeps it from working on many boards.
My advise would be to call Gigabyte and talk to them and if the problem can't be solved within a day or two, RMA the board. It's not worth messing with it, trying powersupply after powersupply and flashing the bios over and over hoping to get it to work.
My problems all went away when I switched to this Asus A7N266-C board, which uses nVidia's nForce 415D chipset. So far I haven't had a bit of trouble with it (though I haven't yet reinstalled everything I had on my old computer). I have messed around with AH offline and everything works perfectly as far as I can tell. This board doesn't have USB 2 or Raid, but I didn't need a Raid controller and I can always go out and buy a USB 2 controller if I need one.
The only thing with the nForce boards is they are kind of picky on memory. You can only use 2 double sided sticks of RAM in slots 1 and 2. Slot 3 must be a single sided DIMM. I just put in 2 x 256 MB Corsair PC 2100 sticks in slots one and two and all works great. You can use 2 x 512 MB sticks if you want though.
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Hi Bloom, I just responded to you on the other thread as well.
Via Arena has been intriguing. I read in there for almost 2 hours, pretty much shaking my head and groaning. You may recall a few months ago I had similar woes with a Tyan dual cpu motherboard. I just can't beleive the motherboard makers just cant get it right. I mean, it was years ago when you just never had problems with motherboards...they worked, or didn't..that's it. No frequenting websites for latest bios's etc. Sigh.
It seems many of those in that forum have made the jump to the MSI board. My local dealer does not have the Asus but does have the MSI brand. He's willing to trade me even for the MSI board, and I'll remove the Giga-Crap from my case tonight.
For what its worth, the GEForce 4 card, running at that Quinc something 4x FSAA is stunning. Its the only setting I can run without lockups and I'm seeing 76fps all over Aces High with it. Don't know how high the FPS will go since I can't run on a lesser mode without the motherboard locking up