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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: BaD kaRmA 158Th on July 07, 2002, 01:27:02 AM

Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: BaD kaRmA 158Th on July 07, 2002, 01:27:02 AM: The Northrop P-61, was shrouded in secrecy from its inception. Known as the "BLACK WIDOW", it was the first U.S. aircraft designed exclusively as a night fighter. The P-61 was the heaviest aircraft to ever bear the designation "P" for persuit, with its initial weight of over 27,400 pounds. Specifications of the WIDOW were those of a medium bomber, with a wing span of 66 feet and an overall length of 48 feet 11 inches. Two Pratt and Whitney R-2800 engines powerd the P-61A developing initially 1600 horse power each. The P-61B had two R2800-65 engines, with an increased horse power of 2200 each. Top speed of this aircraft was over 370 miles per hour.

The P-61 was the most advanced night fighter of its day, possessing incredible capabilities of destruction. Four .50 calibre machine guns were mounted in a dorsal turret and four 20 millimeter cannons in the ventral location on the fuselage pod. The four .50 calibre machine guns were designed initially as defensive weapons and could be controlled by any of the three crew members, pilot, rear gunner, or radar operator who sat in the extreme rear of the fuselage pod. The dorsal gun turret could be rotated 360 degrees and elevated to a 90 fegree angle.

I have a model of the P-61 Black Widow..and iv always thought it to be a kick bellybutton fighter.
kinda like a large p-38..with a turret.
*ywan*
i say AH needs the p-61.

Well?
also who ever can..post some pictures..the p-61 is one cool lookin' plane.
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: senna on July 07, 2002, 01:42:12 AM: I have a film...

:cool:
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: Dr Zhivago on July 07, 2002, 07:28:14 AM: P-61 would be cool buff/fighter hunter just like He219...

BTW got old Matchbox modell of B25H/J (solid or green house nose), whole plane is painted and have waited final assembly many (5?) years but its still in parts...
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: BaD kaRmA 158Th on July 07, 2002, 01:13:30 PM: *Bump*
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: Karnak on July 07, 2002, 02:15:48 PM: The P-61 was a good night fighter, but far from the best. The best was the Mosquito NF.Mk XXX. The thing holding the otherwise excellent P-61 back is its measly 361mph top speed. Post war P-61s fixed this and achieved a top speed of 430mph, but sadly the war time P-61s were slow mofos.

Bring it in anyways, and the Mosquito NF.Mk XXX and He219.
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: BaD kaRmA 158Th on July 08, 2002, 02:10:11 AM: *Bump MoFo Bump*
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on July 08, 2002, 03:55:29 AM: I vote for the mofo
and i would kill any mosquito that get's in my way

nice pic Doc

:D
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: whgates3 on July 09, 2002, 01:17:11 AM: The P-61 had a couple of advantages over the Mossie; 4 x 0.50 covering the '6' (actually covering the whole top hemisphere),and the unusual configuration of the control surfaces gave it a turning ability that one wouldn't expect from such a heavy bird - it could out turn a P-51 or P-38 (no great claim, but i don't know of it being put up against any other fighters). In the ETO the Black Widow downed upwards of 300 E/A against no losses due to enemy activity. Of course Mossie was faster, probably had better RADAR (unless weapon was bent - lol), had greater range, and could carry slightly more lbs (about 10% more) of bombs. The aditional programming for the weird control surface setup in P-61 would probably be a pain in the tail for HTC - which is probably why you dont see it in most sims.
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: Gorf on July 09, 2002, 09:04:16 AM: Something else to point out.

:) ITS a radial = survivability

:) MOOCHO GRANDA more durable then the mossie. This is proven in the ground pounding that he P61 did in the pacific during the day. WHICH it did. ALSO it could carry a bomb load of over 4000lbs. And still out turn a lot of fighter/attack aircraft of WWII.

P61 and the Horton Owl would be great additions to the arena for buff hunting.

Idea for using the radar aspect HTC could have enemy aircraft IDs pop up on aircraft at a greater distance then while flying aircraft with out radar. Just a thought.
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on July 09, 2002, 09:26:52 AM: SOMETHING ELSE TO POINT OUT

It's much more beautiful than a mossie

Bombload ??

great now i really want it
:cool:

actualy they can leave the green 38 for a litle while for this thing
:D
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: BaD kaRmA 158Th on July 09, 2002, 10:27:27 AM: Yep its true the p-61 COULD out turn the p-51..HOWEVER..its cost for doing so was very..very bad with out alt.

most of the time it lost full control over the wings due to so much E drainage in such a short time..sure you could out TURN them..but after a few TURNS..youll have no more speed to keep it up "unlike the spit zero or la-7" ..so you have to tap out and hit the deck....the GREAT thing is who evers behind you or around you..is now above you in some way "x4 .50's? yes please!" RAATATATTATATATATATATTA..we have a fire ball.

I dont care HOW it is in AH..i figure if they can put a p40e in "also my fav plane" and have it go only 300..when even the p40b could go over 330 the p40e even faster, so a bomber size fighter that can go OVER mind you OVER 370MPH then im all for it.
mind you that is with full ammo fule and bombs..i wounder what it would pull with 50% fule..full ammo..and no bombs..can we say RapE aPe?

Also i was also woundering this, IF it was put in..would you have the radar man control the gun..or the gunner "behind the pilot up front" or would the PILOT be able to fly..AND gun at the same time?

ie..or would i hit say 2..and go into a gun view..and watch my plane go into autopilot?
and if i was the pilot..dont you think it would be cool to be behind me.fireing at my target ahead of me?

ok..we all know hows spits can out turn anything..can it out turn x4 .50's on a turret thats flying 370 mph has a 30degree angle so the spits runing right into the ammo..is this evil? it like having a american half track with the 4 .50's ..and the cannons from a f4u-1 riped off and slaped to the belly of a over sized p-38 on CRACK!
so come on spit fires..mess wit' me.

i dunno guys what do you think?

i need it..i want it..i dont care how bad it climbs.
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: Gorf on July 09, 2002, 10:56:48 AM: Well the top turret could work like this.

SAY the "L" key could be hit to LOCK the turret guns forward. Which could be done in the real deal.

BUT when you hit ..let say position 2(dude in back) or the postion 3 (radar dude), the top turret comes unlocked and the positon now has control of the turret AND to relock it forward u have to go to pilot position and LOCK it down again.

JUST a thought!
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: SELECTOR on July 09, 2002, 12:35:00 PM: P61 was the first fighter to be built as a nightfighter from scratch..all the rest were converted dayfighters/ bombers..

i would welcome this to AH only if the advantage of flying at night was to be better portraid..at the moment night only last for about 30 mins at most, and the p61 would be a sitting duck in daylight..

you got to take your hats of to the guys who flew at night, they were very brave or very mad..Think of all the times you hear players saying jeezz i cant see a thing im off to the CT..:D
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: whgates3 on July 09, 2002, 01:46:00 PM: the night fighters were also used effectively in daytime in the heavy cloud over NW europe. apparently it was somewhat of a revelation that radar enhanced fighters were valuable in any limited visibilty situation and eventually the term "night fighter" fell out of use and was replaced by "all weather fighter"
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: J_A_B on July 09, 2002, 01:46:04 PM: "I dont care HOW it is in AH..i figure if they can put a p40e in "also my fav plane" and have it go only 300..when even the p40b could go over 330 the p40e even faster"

You'll note that your P-40E will do 350 MPH at 14,000 feet. Airplanes don't go the same speed at all altitudes.

J_A_B
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: Gorf on July 09, 2002, 01:53:37 PM: Selector:

I agree with you on the night bit, the men that flew with the technology so much at its infancy were men of men.

During the daylight however, beeing a sitting duck is not 100% correct. I have quite a few books on the P61 and based of its statistcs.
At first it would look like a sitting duck do to its sheer size but when this puppy had a tighter turning radius then majority of fighters and when put in a power dive this flying behemoth took off like a rocket and could sustain it without to much fear of compression.

I look at the performace issues between the P61 and other fighters as is the modern day TOMCAT to the F18. The Tomcat dwarfs the F18 but when it comes to dogfighting, it can hang with the F18 when it needs to.

ITS all in the pilot

I think we should get the P61-- Horton Owl --- Night fighter version of the MOssie

I know the Japanese had one but not sure of the name.
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: whgates3 on July 09, 2002, 02:19:01 PM: i dont think the P-61 could be called a 'sitting duck' as i do not know of one being shot down. i'm still sifting through PTO & CBI squaddron histories, but i do have confirmations that none were shot down (by E/A or flak) in the ETO
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: superpug1 on July 09, 2002, 02:46:23 PM: I need it PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE! i will go into caniptions if we dont get it.
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: BaD kaRmA 158Th on July 10, 2002, 02:20:28 AM: *Bump* Vote for it in Ah! AND GET MORE INFO! *Bump*
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: BaD kaRmA 158Th on July 10, 2002, 07:18:58 PM: Yeah, and withthe x4 .50cal's its hard to even call it a duck..do ducks shoot back?
not like a b-20..with only x2 .50's..to gaurd it..and also..granted most bombers/fighters with turrets or rear guners cant shoot past there tail..well..i have two..and a big gap in between..so come on down..Try and shoot me :)
I also like the X4 and x4 20mm faceing forward..now that a crap load of ammo comein yer way..head on anyone?
oh hell he passed me.. /me jump to tail gunner.
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: DeadSpy on July 10, 2002, 08:47:22 PM: Thats one heck of an ugly lookin bird
Title: The p-61 Black Widow.
Post by: whgates3 on July 11, 2002, 02:14:24 AM: i was a night fighter - nobody was ever supposed to look@it