Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RAM on September 04, 2000, 07:23:00 AM
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Greetings and salute, HTC development team.
I am writing this letter to make you see my points of view about the new Combat Trim feature incoming in V1.04. It is a feature that worries me a lot, in the sense that it will be a true easy mode (EZmode) for the pilots that use it.
I have stated a lot of times in your webpage's BBS how much do I dislike this feature. I have stated, too,that if any means of EZmode are included in the main arena, mixing that way EZmode with REalistic one, I will leave Aces High.
I am not the only one who thinks that EZmode it is bad for AH. Read the BBS of your page and you will realize that there is a lot of momentum against this feature, and very few true support for it. Some people say that they will hold their opinion until they test it, that means, in truth, that they dislike the feature but trusts you in the way of implementing it.
I'm not the one who doesnt trust you and your work. I love Aces High, a sim that only can be the product of a love project, and I know that only VERY capable people can make AH possible. Still I dont see how a feature that keeps your plane trimmed in all the flight envelope can be implemented in something near "realistic" ways. I will stay to test 1.04. But I'm scared, I think that it will be what I fear, a true EZmode.
Please ,you see that the customer base doesnt like the idea. Aces High was programmed as a hardcome simulator, one that features the most realistic FMs in the market. Please PLEASE stay in that way. Some concessions have to be made for playability, I agree, but that concessions can be more or less "acceptable" (autotrims in angle, speed and level, Autotakeoff, Better buff guns, padlock, etc). There are other concessions that change the basis of this simulator, EZtrim is just that. A Me109G10 MUST be a unstable plane, a very unstable one. To give a pilot the chance to engage a trim mode that keeps the 109 stable during all its envelope, sorry, but it is unnaceptable for me.
Planes in WWII were different between them. But the differences between them weren't only in performance, and/or maneouverability. Some planes were more stable than others, and that is a BASSIC PART of the simulation. If you bring EZtrim here that part of the simulation (a BIG part of it) will be erased from one day to another.
Please take this letter as a support one, not a critic one. I wish stronger than anyone that Aces High goes ahead as good as always, I LOVE this simulator. I beg you that you left trims as they are, no EZmode. There is a wonderful training corps in Aces High, and I am raising a squad that will help and train newbies in Main Arena. The community always is willing to help new people ,there is no need to implement a feature that will piss off half the community.
If you still do it, means that, or you really think it is neccesary for Aces High, or that the decision isn't in your hands (private money went into AH not so long ago, I know it). In the first case I can tell you that I feel the measure is a wrong one. If it is the second, I remember Pyro stating that to be part of a successful simulator in an unssucessfull company sux. State your own decisions, not the other's. This simulator is yours, and you only know to make it work.
Said that, the only thing I can say is that I thank you for all and every minute of joy that AH has given me. It has been my best time in front of a computer of my life, and ,as someone stated in the BBS, nobody can steal that from me.
Salute HTC.! And good luck in the future, whatever your decision is.
Regards:
Javier "RAM" Bringas
Bilbao, Spain.
C.O. Erg/Jg-26
Aces High
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See anti RAM crowd.
RAM *is* a nice intelligent guy who can put forward his opinions in a non provoking way (for a Spaniard).
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ive' got some worries about CT as well, but I've voiced them in another thread and will not repeat myself. I trust the people at HTC; this far I've been skeptical of all updates and found myself througoutly enjoying them. So I am skeptical about my skepticism (a true skeptic, lol).
I'll wait and see, but I do share some of RAM's worries, all be it in a lesser degree.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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All we can do is vote with our cc-cards...
HTC dont seem to get new players in fast enough and we get to pay for it, we are getting yet an even more fantasy arena then we got now.
I say 1 arena for easy mode 1 arena for full realism.
And why on earth call it Combat trim instead of easy mode? lol!
Regards.
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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Dr. Strangelove
or
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Combat Trim
What difference does it make?
Sun will surely rise morning after 1.04, girls will be pretty as ever and world is full of nice things to do and experience for a young man like me.
Really, what difference does it make?
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jochen
Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://jg2.org) Warbirds
Kids today! Why can't they fetishize Fascist military hardware like normal people?
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
[This message has been edited by Jochen (edited 09-04-2000).]
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Very well written RAM ! <S>!
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Now I've seen everything... and can die happy.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I was just getting ready to tell RAM to "quit taking every reletive post so personally" when i read this (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
wtg RAM
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Por favor RAM, traduce (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Soy piloto que ama el BF109, mal piloto si, pero aun asi no quiero nada que favorezca el manejo del 109 o de otro avión, quiero que se parezca lo mas posible al avion real en su comportamiento.
Prefiero aprender siendo derribado o que alguien me enseñe a llevar un 109 a volar un avion dificil como si fuese un zeke.
esa es mi opinión.
gracias (gracias RAM)
Supong
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<S> RAM,
sharing ur concerns too.
VERY WELL SAID!!!!!!
Make sure HTC get's it.
Maik
<JG54 Gruenherz>
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Originally posted by garrido:
Por favor RAM, traduce (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Soy piloto que ama el BF109, mal piloto si, pero aun asi no quiero nada que favorezca el manejo del 109 o de otro avión, quiero que se parezca lo mas posible al avion real en su comportamiento.
Prefiero aprender siendo derribado o que alguien me enseñe a llevar un 109 a volar un avion dificil como si fuese un zeke.
esa es mi opinión.
gracias (gracias RAM)
Supong
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Please RAM, translate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I am a pilot who loves the Bf109, not a very good one thats true; still I dont want anything that improves the handling of the 109 or that of any other plane, I want them to handle as close as the real ones as possible.
I'd rather want to learn being downed, or that someone teaches me to ride a 109,than flying a difficult plane like it was a Zeke.
that is my opinion.
Thank you.
Supong
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<S!> Supong. You are a good 109 driver, dont be so humble! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-04-2000).]
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Well put RAM <S>
I for one, trust that HT and crew are very aware of what game "improvements" did for that other sim. I also trust these guys when they say they that their product is for SERIOUS simmers.
I'm sure it's a squeak trying to juggle all the different considerations that rear their head when one wants to improve the "experience". Especially when expectaions differ among the users.
With people like RAM intelligently placing their concerns before HTC in this forum, I doubt we are going to get my favorite line from Animal House as a response ("You f--ked-up, you trusted us
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The way HT explained it, Combat Trim won't be like WB's "EZ Mode". Aircraft performance won't be enhanced over a properly trimmed plane.
However, a properly-trimmed plane is still a significant advantage and I doubt that anyone will fly using manual trim once CT is introduced.
I prefer manual trim and the advantage one gets by paying attention to proper trim. To make that automatic will reduce the appeal of AH to me.
I am all for helping the newbies get up to speed and keeping fresh players coming into the sim but think that Combat Trim would best be implemented by making it a feature that times out - either by time similar to the two week trial, or by pilot skill via getting x number of kills.
Combat Trim may help bring new people in, but I think it will also help to push old hands out if blanket implemented. I hate to say it, but if it is too much of an advantage and in practice is not unlike the WB EZ-Mode, then I too will be a dot.
I'll give it a chance though.
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hossa RAM,
for an 190 jockey, you said right!
no EZmode in AH pls
habicht
XO jg54"Gruenherz"
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Yes RAM you right.
I'm a normal Pilot who's giving his best in the MA. I like the unstability of the 109, the torque of the Typhoon at start, the constant watch on the speed indicator in the 190 etc...Sometimes its not easy, but I enjoy it. I like the feelin of satisfaction after a good flight and fight.It's not needed to be the Winner (isn't bad either :-)) I like the competition. With a easy mode its gone.
A hardcore sim, fair and hard competition without whining, that are my goals.
Metronom flying as Sailor
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I totally agree with you Ram!
From the first to the last word
Ciao
Lucchini
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I don't know about his one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I came to AH from AW with very little experience in that sim nor multiplayer. Other than AW, my experience was from playing "boxed" jet sims and lots of them. I have never flown a real aircraft where I have been responsible for trim.
My first take off playing AH, was .34 beta. Really, I should re-state. My first attempted take off. For my first 30 hours playing AH 95% of them were just trying to learn how to get the "DAMN" thing off the ground.
So...
I finally got it off the ground. In doing that I found out that full left aileron control input would not stop a right aileron roll. I found it easier to auger and not to fight the inevitable. About that time is when the concept of using trim came into my mind.
After some bookwork, I actually got airborne from the runway, not using my pattended "Hang Glider" tactic for take off. While in flight, no matter what I did, I was constantly trimming. I did not think about air combat I was thinking about how to trim and setting up my HOTAS. Another 10-15 hours of play goes bye-bye.
Argh!!! This damn thing won't fly straight and level for more than 3 seconds. 80% of my focus was keeping the plane in trim. For me this game was a "Trim Sim", not a "Combat Sim".
Often I would get blown out of the sky, to my amazement, by a plane flying straight and level. I knew that it had to be possible. But how?
Anyone following my piont? Having FUN yet? Nope, but I am stalwart and beta was for free. I had as much time as I needed to learn.
Finally, one day in the MA, a friendly fellow named Chaunc explained to me how to use "AutoTrim". More importantly, he explained that "Everyone uses it!".
WTF OVER!!!! You have got to be flippin kidding me right? This is HARDCORE, not some EZ-DWEEB sim.
Man, knowing about "AutoTrim" totally broke my heart. That knowledge destroyed my faith in what I visualized to be a "Realistic WW2 Flight Sim". I knew beyond any shadow of any doubt that WW2 fighter planes did not have such an AutoPilot feature.
Mad as hell I knew this was total BS. How could HTC do such an aweful thing? I was crushed. I was devastated. I berated the heavens and the earth. I whined on this BBS! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But....
I am still playing AH. I am still having lots of fun. I am now still a happy paying customer.
Good Luck to All! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"hehehe...I like this thread squealing Bastids!"
SOB
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 09-04-2000).]
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Please excuse my ignorance (not an expert here!) but how will it actually work? I am under the impression that the EZ trim will keep correcting to the best setting whatever manouvre you are doing. Is this correct? In other words, if you pull a hard turn it may auto trim to give you more turn but too much G then it will trim down?
BUT anyway, I get the general idea and yeah RAM, a lot of what you said made enough sense to me! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Regards
'Nexx'
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Probably i'm not the right person to say that but....
When i signed up i was an AW3 pilot in FR arena, AW3 was a very simple flight sim (dogfight are hard even in AW3 and SA is important like here in AH) 9.90$/month.
I signed up to AH cause the presence of italian AC (even if in the early stage of AH where completely bad modelled).
I was very reluctant to spend 30$/month but here i have found italian AC. I have bring here all my squad mates from AW3 and found new friends here.
I have spend 2 weeks before perform a decent take off and a successfull landing.
I have found a very poor # of AC and only 1 (2 after a short period) bombers and no ground attack planes, but i signed up cause i have see in this game a very big numbers of opportunity.
Now whe have a map editor for scenrios (very good), some more AC, no bombers, no ground attack planes and no scenarios AC.
Where HTC is heading??? dunno (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Whe still dont have an almost complete AC types to perform a decent scenario, we have only late war AC.
If i am a new customer and i look to AH now i see only a late war dogfight game whit 90% of HO kills. (very boring IMO) 30$/months for only a limited # of AC.
I think people play at AW3, WB, FA cause these sims are more complete and whit a low price, not cause they are more simple to learn, u always need SA, u always need to know how others fighters perform, ecc...
When i was in AW3 i never think to join WB cause he was at least like AW3 in planeset but more expensive, never think about the complexity of the FM. In AW3 i have all the planes to perform ground attak, strategic bomber, fighters, like in WB but at a low price, and incredible scenarios.
Here in AH we have a very good FM (some things must be corrected IMO) that make AH an incredible game, but this incredible game is limited to 5-6 AC (F4UC, Fw190A5, Bf109G10, P-47, P-51, spit IX).
How to correct that MA obsession??? dunno, only players decide to bring a G10 instead of a G6 or G2 (last night i have meet a very good g6 pilots wow) only players decide to fly whit C hog instead of D hog, ecc...
Now i think HTC decided to indroduce early war planes, probably they will correct the MG capability and bring to a suffisent level only MG mounted AC.
Dunno if early war vs late war plane in the same arena is possible, that depends only to players.
I see people fly only C hog cause of the ultra power cannons, probably they can be very good D hog pilots but they prefer to HO whit the korea AC.
Probably these are the kind of people that love to fight C hog vs Bf109E, i really disagree whit them.
The point is:
- 30$/months mean: dedicated customers
- limited # of AC mean: no competition vs others sim
- Ez mode mean: dedicated players will leave
- good FM mean: dedicated customer and a more challenging game for new players
IMO i think we have to raise the level of the game giving more things to players, not giving at players a game like others whit less AC and 30$/month.
Sry i really hope u all start to learn italian ASAP, is very frustrating try to explain that in a foreing language (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
sry for the confusion on this post.
good post RAM <S>
[This message has been edited by VISCONTI (edited 09-04-2000).]
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HAving a Saitek HOTAS is damn near combat trim. Its a 1 finger operation that I hardly think about now really.Its all second nature. If things get to far outta wack I just hit "X" anyway.
Actually, trim never seemed to be a big deal. Seems like a silly thing to go quit over. I find the challenge here is to figure out what plane can do what, turn rates, top speed etc...(poor documentation makes it extremely hard) and mostly ACM and SA.
If someone starts out flying you cause of combat trim and is a newbie, you just might suck, but that aint going to be the case.
Regardless, I cant wait for my first Dora flight in Combat Trim. Ill post the picture for you. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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RAM's just worried that he will get shot down by 109's and he wont be able to watch them auger on his 6 any more. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (j/k).
Visconti: Your post is very clear bud, good points! One day the 202 will shoot something else than .22 caliber rubber bullets, hang in there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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What Maniac said.
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(http://home.sol.no/~laerga/lassel.gif)
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 09-04-2000).]
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The way HT explained it, Combat Trim won't be like WB's "EZ Mode". Aircraft performance won't be enhanced over a properly trimmed plane.
Actually, the EXACT same thing was said about "EZ Mode".
I'm kinda wondering why HTC saw the need for the combat trim. It doesn't seem as if the comunity was crying out for it. Why put so much effort into it? I just can't figure it out. I'd really rather have one more aircraft (p40 comes to mind).
AKDejaVu
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DJV this may have come from a few threads discussing the excessive amounts of trim needed to stabalize a bird (ie: Yak9).
I'm kinda gettng a kick out of everyone condemning combat trim and talk of lost accounts because of it, before it even gets here. Seems there was the same kinda racket about padlock not too long ago.
Yesterday (I think) in the arena HT mentioned the new combat trim. From what I remember he said it would keep the kite close to trim for your speed. The way I took his explanation was that it'll correct ailerons to reduce the tendency to roll as speed increases and correct the vators to reduce the tendency to nose up as speed increases. Note, he said close to trim, not trimmed. I got the impression that those who manually trim thier birds and leave the combat trim turned off will have a slight advantage over those using the combat trip (ie a better trimmed bird).
Now, for all you "hardcore realism/anti-EZmode" folks, where are all the comlaints about aileron trim on birds that had NO aileron trim? 109s and spits dinnae have aileron trim did they? Sorry, not too familiar with which kites did and did not have trim wheels in the cockpits. I can't see why all you folks who enjoy trim on birds that shouldna have it are even worried about the new combat trim, because you've already stepped outside the bounds of historic reality.
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I dont see any kind of auto trim beeing a bonus to flight. Tried EZmode in WB but could not get out of my own way, the combat arena I thought realy sucked couldnt use the full potential of the airplane at all. I cant see them putting in some aspect of the game that would make it an advantage to use. They might add something that could help the learning curve but not make it unfair to the hardcore simmers. I think this will be a mere training aid tht wont do to much, but lest all wait and see. One more thing a properly trimmed plane will only help it fly text book smooth, there isnt a HARDCORE SIMMER that flys a properly trimmed plane you use trim to augment a turn not maintain it, there is a difference.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Indians Home page were links to help pages can be found.
Indian's Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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Don't know which model 109 this is but, this cockpit photo shows 2 trim devices(black wheels to the left of the seat).
(http://www.simplemind.com/pics/trim2.jpg)
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Originally posted by CavemanJ:
109s and spits dinnae have aileron trim did they?
Rudder trim.. rudder trim.. not aileron trim.
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Some points.
Could it be that HT has done some exit surveys and knows that some of the guys that we have enjoyed flying with that left did so for this reason?
This game must be increadibly unrealisic allready if what you are saying is true. I never use trim for anything but keeping the nose down on my b26 during an egress or pulling a g10 out of a fast dive yet I feel I am at least moderatly proficient at ACM. Obviosly there is another level of detail that I have over-looked in the game. I will remap my 3rd top hat to trim and give it a wirl.
I will continue to play and pay even if they model this feature and view lock and the ME262 and the Panzer V non perked and the Spit XIV and the F86H
Im in for the long run I think.
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Well I believe CT is an excellent idea.
I know nearly everyone in my squad (DoDs) dont fly AH because (which btw is being fixed in the next version):
1) the flight model is "wacky"
2) trimming all the time is quite annoying
Yes, it tries to separate the skilled pilots from the unskilled ones, but unfortunately I believe it separates the expensive gear from the bad gear.
Back in WB days I had a thrustmaster with a hat. That's all I needed to kick some butt. Now with AH I can't fly worth a crap, I always need one hand on the keyboard to do "trimming". Personally I don't feel like buying a $150 stick with 10+ buttons just so I can compete. I'm sure 95% of the general, online-gaming public would agree with me.
I'm not saying CT should be nearly as effective as manual trim but its definitely needed to help the "cheap sticks" out.
It's interesting that someone said we can vote with our CCs if we don't like CT. Hehe, well let me ask, "where the heck are you going to go for a more realistic WWII sim?"
Gimme a break and stop being elitests.
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hi all:
TRIM, what the hell do you mean, TRIM,
are you telling me I have to work the trim in here as well, well thank you for telling me.
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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS
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Im with RAM on this one. Well put RAM.
LLB OUT!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by garrido:
... Soy piloto que ama el BF109, mal piloto si... Supong
Hombree!! Tu por estos lares ... A ver si vuelvo de Brasil y hacemos unas rotes en 109 ... saludos pollo
matias.sanz@lightrio.com.br
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Haha, you don't need more than 4 buttons on your stick and $20 for it.
Thats how I did it in WarBirds and I did use rudder and trims fine, like I still do.
"being elitist" - how about playability? I really don't mind to play some fly-by-wire games or face some people flying against me in fly-by-wire planes just because they didn't want to practice flying but wanted to be killers in the very begining as they get engine on.
"trimming all the time is quite annoying", you don't have to trim all the time, just give one good trim and thats it.
"the flight model is "wacky"", I don't have problems with it after I got used to it.
I've flown whole my age with fairly cheap stuff..
In the begining of AH beta I had P133, with 18 fps being maximum and sub-10 more than half the fight, still I didn't do THAT bad.
Which is more annoying, 4 button cheap stick or FPS below 10?
..I still don't have rudder pedals or throttle or.....
Well, of course you can be from playing the game and stick with WarBirds, so we who wants to qualify flying can fly in peace (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
...more realistic WW2 sim?
well, AH has been slowly being pulled away from the 'realistic' state.
If you wan't to know my answer, WWII online seems good so far and it shouldn't be too long till it comes out.
"gimme a break and stop being elitest."
my answer: quit being a dweeb and learn to fly!
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Originally posted by Pongo:
Some points.
Could it be that HT has done some exit surveys and knows that some of the guys that we have enjoyed flying with that left did so for this reason?
This game must be increadibly unrealisic allready if what you are saying is true. I never use trim for anything but keeping the nose down on my b26 during an egress or pulling a g10 out of a fast dive yet I feel I am at least moderatly proficient at ACM. Obviosly there is another level of detail that I have over-looked in the game. I will remap my 3rd top hat to trim and give it a wirl.
I will continue to play and pay even if they model this feature and view lock and the ME262 and the Panzer V non perked and the Spit XIV and the F86H
Im in for the long run I think.
I look at it like this...I fly the P-38, alot (which is about 1/4 of Cita's time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
It's always in trim (elevator excluded, but it doesn't make that much of a difference)
I still miss dive bombin regularly. I still die. ALOT. I still can't catch a diving 109 or out turn a Spit V (Well there was that one time...)
Let's wait and see...
- Jig
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Amazing. Simply amazing. Folks threatening to quit and arguing pro and con and noone's had a chance to even try it yet. How bouts we ck out the 1.04 features before we start the whine sessions?
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Jus' cause yer paranoid don't mean I ain't out ta getcha.
GronK
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"AH has been slowly being pulled away from the 'realistic' state."
--Fishu
I have a question Fishu. I am assuming that you are speaking about trim, since that's what this thread is about.
How was Aces High's system of trim realistic in any way? Are you forgetting that most planes DID NOT HAVE pilot-adjustable trim?
In Aces High, you can manually adjust trim for all three axis, in any plane, while in flight. That is NOT realistic, in the strict sense of the word, since most planes lacked that ability.
Or how about the 109, which lacked any rudder trim at all? If you want realism, then shouldn't 109's lack rudder trim?
"Combat Trim"
will not make things any less realistic than they were before. It will only reduce the necessity of a skill (trimming) which was generally non-existant in real life.
J_A_B
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Well, for a plane lacking any rudder trim, it sure side slips *a lot*. I doubt the sideslip was so severe in real life without the Germans noticing and doing something about it.
Other than that I can only agree. Remove the side slip indicator as well in the 109's, as some models didn't have it. Remove ammo counters on most planes since most didn't have them, adnd those that did had a primitive form not listing actual numbers.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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People should read pilot's accounts of combat. During a dogfight they did three things: Ducked, shot and kept the plane in trim.
Especially if you were in a P-38J. My grandfather flew them and said that they were always trimming it. That was part of the reason they could get such a big plane to perform so well.
Anything that takes away from the mental part of ACM turns any game into more of a FPS. If don't have to do anything except push the throtle down and shot = QuakeBirds.
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Lt Col Dune
X.O. 352nd Fighter Group (http://www.352ndfightergroup.com)
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"
"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona
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By HiTech:
will not make things any less realistic than they were before. It will only reduce the necessity of a skill (trimming) which was generally non-existant in real life.
I was hoping by now that someone with flight time in an actual WW2 plane would have jumped in to this discussion. The only one I re-call is MigEater, who might qualify.
Until then, I believe HT's statement is very true to real life. These pilot's did not trim their plane to get a kill. I doubt that they were complaining to A/C designers at that time that some green (newbie) Allied/Axis combat pilot will get an advantage over them because their high performance A/C trims out such and such so much easier or better.
Baloney....
When I get beat it is almost for 1 of three reasons.
- I jump in when I should not - HKS (Head in Kazoo Syndrome)
- My defensive SA lapsed
- The other pilot out flies me by using superior ACM
That said I now realize what the fear is. I believe this fear is the distortion of the FM preventing spins, stall, blackouts etc...
From what I understand, according to HiTech himself, (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/005088.html) this is not the intention of Combat Trim.
You either take him at his word and trust HTC's judgement or you do not.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"hehehe...I like this thread squealing Bastids!"
SOB
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 09-05-2000).]
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"Especially if you were in a P-38J. My grandfather flew them and said that they were always trimming it. That was part of the reason they could get such a big plane to perform so well."
Yep, later model P-38's were among the planes which actually COULD trim in flight. That was a real advantage for the planes which had that ability.
Most couldn't.
In Aces High, with its mostly late-war planeset, a larger percentage of the planes probably had pilot-adjustable trim. Certainly not all of them though.
J_A_B
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Response to Fishu's yabbering:
Haha, you don't need more than 4 buttons on your stick and $20 for it.
Thats how I did it in WarBirds and I did use rudder and trims fine, like I still do.
Uh what are you talking about. All of the good players talk about the latest sticks they have 10+ buttons, with rudder pedals, throttle control etc.. How they can trim all 6 points by simply pressing a few buttons.
I wasn't accusing you of being good.
"being elitist" - how about playability? I really don't mind to play some fly-by-wire games or face some people flying against me in fly-by-wire planes just because they didn't want to practice flying but wanted to be killers in the very begining as they get engine on.
Uh, once again wtf? Flying should be who can "control" and maneuver their plane the best. Not who has the best gear and can trim the plane the best. Yes, during wwII I'm sure trim and such was important but to me, and most people I talk to its annoying as heck. Remember, I'm not saying that trim should be removed, just that there should be an option to help out the newbies.
"trimming all the time is quite annoying", you don't have to trim all the time, just give one good trim and thats it.
Lol, right.. try diving and pick up your speed somewhat.. you have to trim.
"the flight model is "wacky"", I don't have problems with it after I got used to it.
It's being fixed, obviously there was a problem.
..I still don't have rudder pedals or throttle or.....
Well, of course you can be from playing the game and stick with WarBirds, so we who wants to qualify flying can fly in peace (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Get a pilots license if you want to qualify in flying.
...more realistic WW2 sim?
well, AH has been slowly being pulled away from the 'realistic' state.
If you wan't to know my answer, WWII online seems good so far and it shouldn't be too long till it comes out.
I agree with you here. It should be interesting to see how trim and other "features" are implemented in wwIIo
"gimme a break and stop being elitest."
my answer: quit being a dweeb and learn to fly!
Now, now I never said I couldn't fly. I've had my share of decent battles where I've actually won against some of the better pilots (e.g. hangtime). However, for the average smoe, things need to be softened up.
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Step 1: Try new feature.
Step 2: Ask on BB for it to be changed (in a polite way).
Step 3: Wait some time.
Step 4: Flame.
Seems RAM is going the reverse order here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) He is on the step 2 with this thread, now we have to wait for step 1 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Fariz.
[This message has been edited by Fariz (edited 09-06-2000).]
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Well seems to me you might as well be flying an F-16 as opposed to an WWII aircraft with the CT feature. And if I wanted that, I'll fire up Falcon 4.0
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ezdoc
48th Fighter Group "Checkertails"