Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: OSCAR on July 08, 2002, 08:50:20 AM
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Here's the set up.
In a me262 cruising the ground , zoom up behind a 205 that passed over me at 13k or so, get 200-220 yds his six and open fire with 4x30mms, I use about a good 1.5-2 seconds on this 205 (major hit sprites) but he keeps flying along then pulls hard right because he seeing the tracers I guess. as he banks i nail him again in a snap shot I see his canopy getting hit then finally boom ! no he doesnt explode his wing fall off only.....
Now here I am on the very next sortie in a A20 with 8x500 on board, I see a flak now attacking the same base I was defending I get 8k above it and dive dropping 2x500 right on top of the flak thats just static on the ground, boom ..nothing, make another pass using 4x500s (since now kinda hard to see the flak since he's in 2 bomb craters) and still not even smoking, make another pass using 2x500s and still no smoke, make 4 more passes with 50cals (using all but 253rnds) and finally he's smoking and his turret is down, Kaboom he leave the flak.....guess what.... its the same guy that was in the 205. I grab a yak to goon hunt and I see that someone else (not a newbie) is talking about this flak that wont die (he's actually complaining his panzer won't kill a flak)even tho its taking multiple hits from 4-5 other tanks/flaks/m3 (hehe m3). BTW I'm using a 1.05mbs connection pinging at 79 or so.
The question is since I'm not a guru exactly, can someone minipulate the packets? and would that even matter?
Also I can drop bombs pretty well,,ask rollo and habu they know.
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Q: What was the common denominator in all of these occurances?
A: You.
Strange you should use "cheaters" in the text of your subject. Maybe "should I have relogged" would be more appropriate.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Q: What was the common denominator in all of these occurances?
A: You.
Strange you should use "cheaters" in the text of your subject. Maybe "should I have relogged" would be more appropriate.
AKDejaVu
Did you read his post? Im thinking about this passage: "and I see that someone else (not a newbie) is talking about this flak that wont die (he's actually complaining his panzer won't kill a flak)even tho its taking multiple hits from 4-5 other tanks/flaks/m3"
Personally I think the invisible planes are still with us in v1.10 but since I dont have film, I cant prove it.
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Post your film. (tm)
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Its not an isolated incident.
What's happening is the effect of lag on both you and the target. I've noticed more and more of this happening since the 1.10 update and I suspect its something with either the servers or the traffic going to them that's causing the phenomenon. I've had as many disco's in the past 3 days as I have in the past 3 months. Give it a week or two and there should be an improvement as the servers stabilize (a lot of players are still d/ling the software and that's tying up bandwidth). Until then, just smack the vehicle hangers on your bomb runs and on your next sortie use a panzer to kill the enemy gvs.
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I can't comment on your experiences with the 262/205, but one thing comes to mind about "hard to kill vehicles".
Don't forget that it is possible that someone may have dropped vehicle supplies. One thing I have done in the past is to grab an M3 and make several runs dopping off vehicle supplies leaving a trail at least partway to my target. That way if I get damaged I can click on "Load Supplies" and continue on my merry way.
Just a thought...
lothar
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Originally posted by OSCAR
as he banks i nail him again in a snap shot I see his canopy getting hit then finally boom ! no he doesnt explode his wing fall off only.....
Hit sprites are generic and display over the entire model. Chances are, the round hit the wing... you just can't tell because hit sprites can't be hidden by parts of the plane you're shooting at.
And this has absolutely NOTHING to do with invisible planes Hortlund, Oscar here probably failed to nail the Flak with the bombs... and instead they fell near it. Remember, you can't kill 'em without a direct hit. Especially not with 500lbers.
-SW
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FWIW, hard to kill vehicles are nothing new. I gave up trying to kill GVs from the air for this reason. There are a few particular people that are nigh impossible to kill in their GVs for whatever reason. If a couple of bombs right on top of them won't kill them, I figure nothing will. No sense exposing yourself to the possibility of getting shot down when you cannot kill the guy in return.
I've notice this for several versions, not just this one...
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Originally posted by Hortlund
Did you read his post? Im thinking about this passage: "and I see that someone else (not a newbie) is talking about this flak that wont die (he's actually complaining his panzer won't kill a flak)even tho its taking multiple hits from 4-5 other tanks/flaks/m3"
Personally I think the invisible planes are still with us in v1.10 but since I dont have film, I cant prove it.
And did you read the posts? He said he killed him both times... but yet nobody else was able to? Yeppers... iron clad scenario there.
Couldn't have been lag.. nope.. need to call someone a cheater.
AKDejaVu
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The only other wrench I can throw into the works is whether or not it is possible the GV was respawning at a remote spawn. If that guy was dying you should get the kill message if YOU are the one killing it, but if several of you are taking turns getting it, it would appear as the same GV over and over.
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Hmm have to say AKDej. is but an idiot...No its not my connection i've got plenty of experience killing vehicles often with a single rocket or a single 100# bomb. But when you encounter something like this with the same guy in a plane first then a flak and the results are the same ,thats a bit odd don't you think?
Also you don't need to make a direct hit on a gv with a 500# to kill them, killed plenty with nearby impacts. (within a veh. length or so).
Also the tank shooting him was but 1.5k or so away and the flak shooting him was but 400-500yds away, the m3 closed to about 800yds.
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Kieran if this was the case, all the shooters but the killer should at least receive an assist message.
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Originally posted by OSCAR
Hmm have to say AKDej. is but an idiot...No its not my connection i've got plenty of experience killing vehicles often with a single rocket or a single 100# bomb. But when you encounter something like this with the same guy in a plane first then a flak and the results are the same ,thats a bit odd don't you think?
Your connection or his.. one is to blame. I do still believe you embelished to make the whole thing seem even more fiendish. You were able to kill him (got his id afterall) but others were not... You obviously hit him with every bomb because you say you do it all the time.
Nearest I can tell... you simply came here and titled a thread cheater because his death was delayed. Tell me again just exactly it was that said 'cheat' about that particular scene? Was he offing people right and left in the meantime? Was he proceding to get on your 6 and shoot you down? Just what was it?
Ah... but you are the rocket scientist that can't figure out a simple problem so your reaction is to think cheater. If being opposite of you is being an idiot... I accept that label.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Q: What was the common denominator in all of these occurances?
A: You.
Strange you should use "cheaters" in the text of your subject. Maybe "should I have relogged" would be more appropriate.
AKDejaVu
then
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
And did you read the posts? He said he killed him both times... but yet nobody else was able to? Yeppers... iron clad scenario there.
Couldn't have been lag.. nope.. need to call someone a cheater.
I'll comment your second post: he never said that he killed the guy in the flak. He said the flak was smoking so the guy exited....giving him a kill as he was in enemy territory. Maybe a 3rd reading would be prudent before you engage your lecturing mode.
Maybe he jumped hastily to the conclusion that the guy was cheating, but you seem to post without much thinking as well.
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Ah.. sorry... guess he musta clearly known that it was a kill vs an exit.
He musta just exited when he was in the plane too. Afterall... it was exactly the same both times.
Right?
Its not a problem when someone comes and asks what is up with this situation wanting to know what could be wrong. Instead, we get another "cheaters" post.
Once again.. I invite you or anyone else to even remotely describe what was being accomplished with this cheat that couldn't kill people 1.5k away from him? Or made only his wings fall off of a plane instead of blowing up? I'm missing that here.
Really... just what was the cheat?
AKDejaVu
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I know what AKdej. is saying here. I also understand how Oscar feels.
For me even the buildings have been cheating of late.
A20G, fly across city from one corner to the other and drop 4x500s - nuthing. Fly the next set of opposing corners and drop 4x 500s - nuthing.
Then I'm about to to line up a strafing pass and boom the city erupts and there's only a couple of buildings left, and the buffer is full of Building Destroyed type messages.
Damn those cheating buildings! :D
Just lag - I relogged, and things were sweet again.
I haven't ever seen a cheat in 5 years of MMOG Air Combat Sims, and even if I had I'd be more inclined to put it down to the vagaries of the network that has been constructed voluntarily over the last 30 years, and only recently commercialised. Granny in Siberia downloading 30MB of Cross Stitch patterns for her 9 month winter project activity plan screw the whole Internet if the right (or wrong) set of circumstances come into play. Most Telcos share bandwidth and processing with Voice traffic. 3 or 4 outages in continental Telephone/Internet networks can affect the traffic routing for the whole planet.
I'm old enough to remember when Computer Battleships was an amazing game. I'm grateful that I can participate in a sim that uses simulated machinery from an era that fasacinates me. And it costs me less to do it than each month than I used to drink on a Friday night ..mumble.. years ago.
Just accept the stuff you can't change and move on. If it still really bugs you then find an alternative outlet. That would be a shame though because we don't want to see you go Oscar. :)
Regards
palef
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Ah.. sorry... guess he musta clearly known that it was a kill vs an exit.
He musta just exited when he was in the plane too. Afterall... it was exactly the same both times.
Right?
Its not a problem when someone comes and asks what is up with this situation wanting to know what could be wrong. Instead, we get another "cheaters" post.
Once again.. I invite you or anyone else to even remotely describe what was being accomplished with this cheat that couldn't kill people 1.5k away from him? Or made only his wings fall off of a plane instead of blowing up? I'm missing that here.
Really... just what was the cheat?
AKDejaVu
First, I want to point out that I can usually tell when the guy died or exited in a GV (I can explain it to you if you ask). Of course, lag can have some weird effect in this case.
I haven't checked it, but I'm pretty confident you're the one who used the words 'cheat' or 'cheater' the most in this thread.
Btw, Title of the thread: Cheaters?
Although I don't think I've ever seen a real cheat in a MMOG, I've seen lots of 'exploits' allowing some players to get an undeserved advantage. You want an example? The troopers running sideways in WWIIOL (until latest big release). I'm sure you've heard about some in the past of AH.
So instead of antagonizing the guy at the first post, why don't you share you omniscience with him? This was my advice of the day.
As I don't seem to have as much free time as you (6500 posts wow), I'll have to close this little discussion here. So please let me use your favourite line,
Now I'm done with you[/I]
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I refer you to the title of this thread.
Its not "what happened?"
Its not "something strange...."
I don't like labeling someone a cheater. I don't like it when others do it with zero information other than "this was wierd". I did not use the term to label anyone. I don't think the author of this thread had the same intentions.
Do this... use a stereotyping type word often used to describe people based solely on appearance... on that is viewed as insulting by many... then say it to some one in the form of a question. See if it lessens the impact of the use.
AKDejaVu
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Lighten up DejaVu. You keep referring to the title of this thread as 'cheaters', but whats that funny thing at the end of the word.
Oh wait "?" is that punctuation symbol signifying a question. I realise your frustration with the numerous 'I got killed- they must be cheating posts' but that wasnt my interpretation Oscar's post at all. Something didnt seem right and so he posted to ask about it.
Sparkzz
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ah looks like DjV is making up for his absence
:-)
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My question is, If he was CONCERNED, why did he use Cheaters? as the subject? I see AK's point of view on this. Everyone can say at any given time that "Hey, he's cheating, this is BS"
Why do people beat the same drum? My answer, nothing better to post and why not troll.
Masher
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Man you guys made a big deal out of this thread. This guy is just posting some that happened while he was playing.
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Unfortunatly the post could have been named "blue cheese"
and the postie would have been flamed by someone offended by the words cheese on this message board...
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I stand Corrected! " as I wipe the spit coffee of of my flat screen"
actually got some up my nose too "Ouch"
Think its actually "Bleu" but what the hell do I know ehhhh!
No. It would be because the cheese was called "blue" and not "Blau" which would be the appropriate nomenclature for a Kurt Tank inspired Deutsche cheese. So get your facts straight
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The very FIRST thing I do if/when I see something strange is bring up the clipboard, then check NET STATUS toggle, and check my net status. If everythings flat, then I contact the individual and ask him to check his net status. 99 out of 100 times one of you has a bad connect...and as we forewarned many times prior to V1.10 release, the downloading would wreak havoc on main arena connections (although I would say this release there has been probably the least havoc on my net status of all other releases!, Good job Skuzzy!)
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DJV who the hell nominated you as the PC police? Oscar, though the term Cheaters? was his post title, took a lot of time to clearly post the sequence of events and then closed with asking if something like packets could be manipulated.
You're going off half cocked here.
I think, in addition to a WOW award, we need a Monistat 7 award for excessive squeakyness due to... "Feminine problems"
You get the first nomination
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On some vehicles I am see two types of hit sprites - the normal kind on one vehicle - then little tiny hit sprites that have no effect on another in the same vehicle sortie (where this is much easier to observe). I did make some films of this, but figure it is something that is being worked on. But there most assuredly are at least two distinct types of hit sprite.
In the instnace that I most don't understand I had killed two guys (osti and tank) then a third tank comes along that won't die. I put several hits (hit sprites) on him but he continued to close put 5 near point blank (i.e. wasn't even necessary to aim anymore) AP rounds into the guy - got those little hit sprites tried the front, the track the turret - got a hit sprite where I aimed but no damage! HE was moving so I know he was not resupplying.
He kills me (one ping of course! :) The other tank says he hit him at least 5 times as well before the second tank did finally kill him. So sometimes there is somethign wierd that goes on that seems to defy explanation.
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I've seen some things in 1.1 that I haven't seen before. This probably should be posted on the bug report or tech board, but I thought it might be of value to show that something can appear to be cheating.
A few days ago, in a Flak Panzer, I repeatedly hit an enemy tank at between 750 and 1000 yards. I kept shooting hitting him each time for several minutes with no affect. I tried moving my aim point slightly several times to vary where I was hitting him, but no joy. I watched hit sprites constantly flashing the whole time. Sometimes I could see where my shells were bouncing off the tank and hitting the ground nearby, but he would not die or even smoke. He finally located and killed me. To be fair, I have seen FPs get damaged before and seem to become very hard to kill, but they at least smoked.
Yesterday I saw a enemy GV attack a vehicle base. About the time I started shooting at him, he disappeared. I looked all around thinking he may have warped, but he was nowhere in sight. After a couple minutes I started getting hit and saw the enemy GV had reappeared in the same place.
I have also seen many planes dive in and at 2000 yards suddenly warp to 500 yards. The night before last this happened repeatedly at a base being attacked by bish hoards. The net status looked fine but it could well have been caused by Internet problems.
These were seen while in GVs, I haven't had any trouble while flying planes, but I've only been up a few times.
I don't know if the cause was by design, the host or network lag, but it seems to have gotten worse with this update. I've also been getting many dumps to desktop after the 1.11 patch and one complete lockup last night. I can't remember having either happen to me before, so I think there are new issues in this update creating problems that look like cheating.
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Sheesh, and here I thought it was a fairly well reasoned post to start with.
But alas, I forgot the Sacred Cow...thou shalt not make claim that AH can in any way be hacked, or has been hacked, or might be hacked...in anyone's life time. At least not without full disclosure. This includes, but is not limited to, film of the event from your perspective, film of the event from the perspective of the accused, same-time films of everyone else logged in at that time (whether it be to AH, Warbirds, the now defunct AW...doesn't matter, you need them all for a valid claim) and of course packet sniffs of the accused's session, including a complete download of their hard drives to provide a complete display of all applications running at that time. Past online history of the accused over the last 3 decades, or up to the time they first lived in a town with an ARPANET connection (whichever is earlier), is also required.
Only then can one even infer that AH could possibly be the target of a hack. You still can't make accusations publically though. That's just not allowed under any circumstance. ;->