Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on July 09, 2002, 12:37:23 AM
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Basically this planeset in some North Africa map.
Allies:
P40B
P40E
All the Hurricanes
Boston
M3
PanzerIV
M8
Axis:
Bf109E4
Bf109F4
Bf110c4
C202
Ju88
M3
PanzerIV
M8
No CV, no Ostwind and no Spits.
CV are too annoying with their uber flak and milkrun potential.
No Ostwinds for the same reason.
No Spits.
I think this would be very well balanced and lots of fun. With little potential for dweebery.
So what you guys think?
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year?
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Looks good to me.
However if it's N Africa there should be a British CV there. With the addition of the F4F, it would make a good historic addition, as the Royal Navys Martlett. There are two CT squads now, that strive to keep the CVs out to sea, and use them properly.
Sqdn 880 Fleet Air Arm, and VF-27. VF-27 did historically fly f4Fs from the USS Santee during Operation Torch.
It's about time to get out the Luftwaffe Iron as well. Axis ave been Japanese for two weeks now.
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Royal Air Force, Middle East 23 October 1942 (http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/017_britain/42-10-23/raf/_raf_middle-east.html)
On the left you will see:
Western Desert Airforce
HQ Brit Forces Aden
Air HQ egypt
Click on any of the 3 Fer raf OOB (including plane types).
German 2nd Air Fleet 23 October 1942 (http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/011_germany/42-oob/42-10-23/luftflotte_02.html)
On the left you wil see
II. Fliegerkorp
X. Fliegerkorp
Click on those fer LW OOB (including plane types).
Italian Air Command Sicily 23 October 1942 (http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/019_italy/42-10-23/z_asic.html)
Italian Air Command Aegean 23 October 1942 (http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/019_italy/42-10-23/z_aege.html)
US Armed Forces Middle East Air Force 23 October 1942 (http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/013_usa/42_north-africa/air-force_usafime.html)
Allies
p40e
p40b
f4f (martlet)
Boston
b26 (balitimore)
spit5
Hurri2c
Axis
109f4
109g2
ju88
110c
202
no 190s they came to NA November 1942
FW 190 (http://www.geocities.com/bookie190/Afrika.htm)
Heres an ot but interesteing read about
ITALIAN AIRFORCE IN WW2 (http://www.wargame.com/articles/wwtwo/iaf/index.html)
edit this is as close as we can get to the planeset @ el alamein
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From the links, it looks to me as if the RAF had only one Squadron of Spit V's available. As such I would suggest that they be available at only a few fields. I'd think that three fields, one near the (starting) front, one midway back and one deep in would give us a pretty good representation while allowing those who enjoy the Spit to be able to get them.
For the Axis it appears that the G2 is default 109 variant with a few F's and even one squadron of E's.
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S!
If you are doing October 1942 and include the 109G2, then you have the Spit V also present.
There were multiple Spit V Squadrons in the Western desert by September/October '42.
The G2 and Spit V both appeared around same time in the Middle East and on Malta. (actually Spit V's were slightly earlier on Malta)
If you are doing Spring/Summer 1942, then you have the Tomahawks, Kittyhawks, and Hurricanes versus the 109F4 and MC202.
Including the 109G2 and not the Spit V is ahistorical and not very representitive.
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Please no CV and no Spitfires, no Bf109G2 either.
The no CV reduces dweeb factor and no Spit makes it historical.
Yes I was thinking early 1942, before El Alamein.
Also maybe add Bf110c4 to axis and M8 to both sides.
This would be fun!
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109f
Im in!
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Overall, I like it. I would like to keep the CV's in, but put F4F's, SBD's, and TBM's on them. Just don't give the CV fleets LVT's. That reduces the motivation to bring them in close to shore. This set up would be fairly historical, but provide good plane choices for all. Any chance to use new planes in the CT is worth taking. I'm okay with leaving the spit-V (last two set ups had no spits, afterall) in or out. The 109F is a good match for it, and the G2 holds it's own as well. I think this would be a good one to run this weekend.
Sabre
CT Staff
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Please no CV and no Spitfires, no Bf109G2 either.
The no CV reduces dweeb factor and no Spit makes it historical.
Yes I was thinking early 1942, before El Alamein.
Also maybe add Bf110c4 to axis and M8 to both sides.
This would be fun!
I don't mind the Wildcats off the carriers, I guess, but I'd just as soon have the earlier, non-spit period, too.
- oldman (knowing that he's doomed to fly for the Luftwaffe, anyway)
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Originally posted by Sabre
Overall, I like it. I would like to keep the CV's in, but put F4F's, SBD's, and TBM's on them. Just don't give the CV fleets LVT's. That reduces the motivation to bring them in close to shore. This set up would be fairly historical, but provide good plane choices for all. Any chance to use new planes in the CT is worth taking. I'm okay with leaving the spit-V (last two set ups had no spits, afterall) in or out. The 109F is a good match for it, and the G2 holds it's own as well. I think this would be a good one to run this weekend.
Sabre
CT Staff
I like it set up like this as well.
eskimo
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There were multiple Spit V Squadrons in the Western desert by September/October '42.
Sorry, bad research on my part. It did not occur to me that the "Air Headquarters" units would have aircraft actually assigned to them and so I didn't click on the icons. Once I did I found that while the "Western Air Force" has limited Spit V's, these other groups have many of them.
For myself, I don't mind the Spit V's. If there is one thing I have learned flying in the CT is that the Spit's, in particular the V, has it limits. In general you never have to fight one from Co-Alt if you don't want to. In the MA this lesson is much harder to learn as there always seems to be someone diving into the party.
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Good looking set-up Wotan.
I'm looking forward to flying Luftwaffe, kinda been missing my old JG51 days.
Sabre the idea of no LTVs is also a winner.
Grunherz your idea was a winner, I still don't understand how a CV is going to ruin it, but different strokes for different folks.
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I dont see how you could have a any med na set up without spitfires.
any further back ya go the italians will have to loose there 202s for mc200 and biplanes :)
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Well thats easy Wotan there wern't any Spitfires in NA until late 1942. Read up on that, both sides make a note of entery by Spitfires into the theater at that time.
As for CV I dont want them there because all people use them for is to hog a base down with flak and ack and thats stupid. We all know that has always happened with CVs. Its dweeby and sucks for both simulation and gameplay.
So lets have this no CV no Spit, just good honest fun!
Lets call it:
Heiss uber Afrikas Boden die Sonne gluht! Sommer 1942!
Allies:
P40B
P40E
Hurricanes
Boston
C47
M3
M8
PanzerIV
Axis:
Bf109E4
Bf109F4
Bf110C4
c202
Ju88
C47
M3
M8
PanzerIV
Who is in a position to set this up or who do I contact to become a CM so I get it done?
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Doesn't look very balanced to me- looks like the axis will have an easy time without having to compete against the spitV.
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LOL.
Love that signature box Thrila!:D
Grunherz, there's not an option in this game, somebody can't figure out a way to dweeb up. Be it CV's or anything else.
With GVs being able to spawn close to enemy bases,as is the case on many CT maps, you see lone flakpnzrs able to sneak up to an enemy base and zap guys taking off, not very historical huh?? Should we do away with GV's too?:rolleyes:
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S!
Were no Seafires on Brit CV's till early '43 in Med.
Brits had Sea Hurricane II's, (same as Hurri IIC) and Martlets, (same as Wildcat) on CV's. (Plus planes like Fulmar, but we obviously don't have them... :) )
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S!
The plane of choice for the Allies in this will be P-40E. As it was historically. (Brits called them Kittyhawks) They should outturn and outroll the 109's.
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S! Grunherz
I think I am up next, so I will be happy to do the setup.
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April 42 spits in na gruen that aint the point
the a6m2 owns the the p40b in the ct now. The 109f will own the p40e. Its about gameplay and keeping folks interested over a weeks span. Bump the date up to october 42 and you have much better options that will cover a broader range of interests.
The most consistant flyers of the ct have been navy squadrons I think at the very minimum that the f4f and sbd ought be enabled off cvs.
I suspect the hurri will end up the plane of choice for the allies.
I think the planeset as offered by gruen offers to great an advantage to the lw.
just mho...........
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I would certainly like to try out that match up.
Too bad the cv cant be kept 20 miles off shore...they should be anyway.
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Originally posted by Wotan
April 42 spits in na gruen that aint the point
the a6m2 owns the the p40b in the ct now. The 109f will own the p40e. Its about gameplay and keeping folks interested over a weeks span. Bump the date up to october 42 and you have much better options that will cover a broader range of interests.
The most consistant flyers of the ct have been navy squadrons I think at the very minimum that the f4f and sbd ought be enabled off cvs.
I suspect the hurri will end up the plane of choice for the allies.
I think the planeset as offered by gruen offers to great an advantage to the lw.
just mho...........
Good points.
eskimo
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CV must be kept out because of the enormous dweeb factor. I dont want this to be a CT setup where a CV just parks off a base and that then becomes the basis for fighting.
Lowe dont you see there is a special note on no Flakpanzer either. :)
Thanks Buzzbait! I look forward to seeing that CT setup. :)