Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Xjazz on July 10, 2002, 08:13:30 AM
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Hi!
My wish is get more Icon option/settings for host. How about same extra options below (defauft is MA setup)?
No plane type info (just small red/green dot or square)
- enemy or nobody
No Range info for
- enemy or nobody
- If range info: min & max settings option like: No range info d3k etc
No Icons for (at all):
- enemy or nobody
No or shorter icon range xx if under xx altidude (AGL)
- enemy or nobody
Any comments?
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So, everybody loves MA icons:confused:
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Yes.
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yes please!
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Hell no. We need to make them more low visability and remove range number, put + - in place etc... only allow general plane type when very close. If you wanna know what type of spit, flash past him closely like in real combat rather than HO him.
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Test question:
How far away should you be able to distinguish a 10 inch high numeral (2 in wide paint) from a alphabet letter of the same size?
Answer in feet or yards, your choice.
Then tell me how that translates to what you see on your monitor now in AH.
Thx.
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Dont take it wrong!
I dont want change MA setup at all. It is what it is and no problem with that!
I just wish to have more icon options for the h2h-hosting than d3k/d6k enemy icons. Off course there is ALT+i but its just are not same, when host setup arena without any extra user options.
S! TOAD
My best gues is about 165feet. I understand your point about monitor ( resolution, fps, quality of the GC&monitor, rl ~180 fow, rl focusing problem), but as I explain above I looking additional options for h2h-hosting only.
No icon fights are really blast. You need maintain sight to the enemy or you are dead very fast. "Lose sight, lose fight".
Now you know what padlocked means and you are way too "afraid" to look anything else. No more " A-ha! Its under d1k now, so I can start shooting" syndrome. No, you need now use gun sight for it purpose... Estimate the range.
We fly without icons even night dark arena! Lights off from room and start tracking that dark evil shadow against sky full of starts.
I understand well that HTCs first prior is not h2h-tasks but maybe same day...
Have nice weekend! Jiihaaa!
:)
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165 Feet? :D
It always seems to work out that folks that think "no icons" is more "realistic" haven't really stopped and looked around the real world.
How far away can you read the letters on a standard STOP sign? Those are about 8-10 inches tall as well.
My point is that the visual detail available in this.. or ANY... ACM computer game is so inferior to what your Mark I eyeball can see in real life that the ICONS actually make it MORE realistic.
In short, you can see MUCH, MUCH more detail in real life. The icons are an admittedly clumsy crutch to help compensate for this.
In RL, the amount of visual detail would EASILY cue you when you are in "shooting range". Here, we don't have that luxury of detail and thus the substitution of the compensator, a range reading.
Now you may tell me no icons is more fun or whatever.. that's fine. That's simply a personal value choice.
Just don't tell me that no icons is "more realistic"... because it simply is NOT.
Read This Thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25522&highlight=visual)
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Im more used to meters here :D
Toad, you have a point. Monitors are very limited even with 1600*1200/32/100+fps Superhyper PC performance.
But
I dont speak about "Its more realistic!" stuff here. It just for change kind stuff. Pervert fun? :rolleyes:
If we forget No Icon stuff and look those other options what I mention in my first post. Do you have comments about those?
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As a matter of fact, yes, I do.
The whole Icon idea has been discussed in all the games over the years. Here's what I've been thinking lately... although this post from another thread is probably two years old or so.
"Here's my old comments.....
"If we're going to actually try a few different means of IFF instead of this 10 year old system, I'd be really happy.
Here's a few points to ponder. These thoughts are based on a non-historical arena, where all sides fly all planes. Strict Historical could/should be different.
Ranges would have to be hashed out but that's an area that affords easy experimentaion once the overall system is set.
1. At long range, a plane dot whether friend or foe, fighter or bomber dot should just be an unknown dot.
2. As range closes, one would be able to distinguish a dot as a bomber earlier than a fighter. Therefore, some sort of "buff" ID should show at a range that would still be a dot for a fighter. At this range you couldn't tell friend from foe.
This means a dot could be either a long range plane of either type or a closer fighter that is not yet distinguishable. You just couldn't tell.
3. As range further decreased, a fighter ID should show. You should also now be able to tell, in some way, friend from foe, perhaps just a red dot at nose, tail and wingtips. This assumes that we would in Real Life be distinguishing plane type. Again, this would be a different range for a bomber than a fighter.
4. Now, after IFF range, add distance information. Range info should perhaps only be shown in 1k or .5k increments to avoid the rapidly running counters. I would not show range beyond a certain distance, a yet to be determined "threat" range, and I would remove it as the aircraft comes to "guns range." Perhaps cut out range info inside of 1k or .5k at minimum. You need IFF here, but you don't need range when you're ready to shoot. That should be part of pilot skills and judgement.
5. I would have no aircraft type ID available at ranges that allow you to distinugish that info from the graphics. (determined for the lowest resolution avail). I would allow some simple "type" info at ranges where you could see it in real life.
Different colored dots, arrows, numbers...any of these could be used to provide this type of information while minimizing and shrinking the huge icons we now have.
Just some thoughts. I'm sure everyone has some ideas and I'd love to read them. I hope we can get a meaningful discussion going and I also hope we can talk HTC into experimenting in the SEA with "alternative Icon lifestyles"."
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here's the thing, juding distance would start off with you scanning the space around you, with AH's 'look in the general direction and see me' its easy to see them, then you would focass on the dot, trying to judge its distance
but here it just requires you to flip your views around
I've done it before
eyes glazed over, messing with my hat cos i'm bored, and go "hey, was that a con?"
flip back round, "Yes, it was, now i'll go kill it"
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HTC, please consider making the icon settings that are available with "ALT-I" host-controllable. A "no enemy icons" -setting would be great in scenarios. Thanks.
Camo
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And please consider implementing WW2OL -style slowly appearing icons. Thanks. :)
Camo
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My point is that the visual detail available in this.. or ANY... ACM computer game is so inferior to what your Mark I eyeball can see in real life that the ICONS actually make it MORE realistic.
Imho less detail makes indentifying (especially spotting) much easier than IRL. It works both ways.
I've flown quite bit without icons and I feel its more realistic that way. Especially range counter makes it too easy to judge opponents E state, firing distance etc. Also you need to be much more observant without those neonsigns.
Remember IRL there is much more detail and inspecting anything (especially camoufalged planes against ground) is much harder.
Less detail makes it somewhat harder to judge different aitcraft models from eachother at distance. (And how about real life when same type had many different camouflage variants?)
This is just my opinion ofcourse so no need do flame it. I understand many of you have different view on this subject.
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Originally posted by illo
This is just my opinion ofcourse so no need do flame it. I understand many of you have different view on this subject.
No flames. I just disagree.
After 20,000+ hours flying around in various aircraft, weather conditions, etc., I think "no icons", particularly in some of our terrains, is a long, long way from "realistic".
I know some folks think it heightens their feeling of flying or fun or whatever and I have no problems with that.
But "realism"? No way.
Just my opinion of course. ;)
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Originally posted by Toad
After 20,000+ hours flying around in various aircraft, weather conditions, etc., I think "no icons", particularly in some of our terrains, is a long, long way from "realistic".
I know some folks think it heightens their feeling of flying or fun or whatever and I have no problems with that.
"No icons" is too difficult. "Friendly only icons" is imho the best of all the icon options currently in AH.
Lentolaivue 34 had two squad duels with 5.GIAP. In the second duel, first 2 frames were fought with "friendly only icons", and it was great. The last frame was fought with "no icons" and it was riddled with friendly fire. Planeset was 109 G-2 vs La-5FN.
You can read the AARs here: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23293
The screaming neon sign gives you away too easily. As I said, a WW2OL-type fading icon might be the solution, in case "friendly only icons" will not be considered.
Camo
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I've never said AH icons couldn't be improved.
If someone finds "no icons" gives them greater enjoyment in the game, that's a personal valuation. I have no problem with someone thinking "no icons" is more fun or more manly or more fulfilling or whatever. Some people like blondes, some like redheads. Both are fun, both are personal choices.
What I've said repeatedly is that "no icons" is in no way "more realistic". I'll stick by that.
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Originally posted by senna
Hell no. If you wanna know what type of spit, flash past him closely like in real combat rather than HO him.
Well put, Senna. Let those folks that wanna bounce a perked ride get well within spitting distance instead of calling to every ally in range about a tempest 5.8k out!
Gainsie
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TOAD have very good point concerning icons but still I hope that HTC gives more icon options for host
We have right now multiple arena (host) settings like:
- external view modes
- radar modes
- flight settings
Why not current icon settings could be also arena (host) setting?
IconR(ange): 0/1 = short /long range
IconM(ode): 0=no icons, 1 = friendly icon only, 3 = player choice (like now in MA)
MA, CT, DA, TA etc are just like now BUT if somebody like setup scenario / h2h host with something different, that should not be problem to anybody...
One thing more!
Tracers on/off could be also arena (host) setting.
- No Icon and Tracers On to EVERYBODY! Think about that
S!