Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs2 on July 10, 2002, 08:26:57 AM
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When I got on, the pizza map was now divided into three equal slices. One for each country. No field was less than a sector and a half away from an enemy field..
The lack of action was staggering.. early war planes were circling their fields. Why would they venture out 1 and a half sectors to be B&Zed all the way home for their efforts?
Milkrunning was the order of the day with undefended fields being attacked.
Gameplay consisted of.... milkrun a field or.... circle around your field hoping someone with less patience will attack so that you and 6 other guys can fight over who get's to kill him or.... fly a sector or 2 to fight and watch the red bar evaporate slowly the closer you get to the field till all that's left to fight is one no clue defender or Ai or... just sit in the tower, look for somewhere remotely fun looking to go while we ..... chat.
it's a big friggin map... can't we have some close fields or, better yet, a little corner where only early war planes are allowed to take off and a barren zone above that of 4 sectors or so... enough fieldless terrain so that attention starved late war flyers can't get to the early war area?
lazs
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STFU whiner.
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and we all thought that guys from sweden were just saab driving sissies.
lazs
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(http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/mousie/images/eeyorealone.jpg)
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New terrain is alright. Really is, give and take some, but its sorta too bad 1.10 started off on it. Should have really been a kick bellybutton terrain and unfortunately it aint any better than the average terrain.
Oh well.......maybe next time ;)
Thinking on it some, Im not a fan of the terrain dividing eras either. Too clumsy and the 51D has a tremendous range.
The time has come for RPS.
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Rip, try Boomspeed.com
(http://www.boomspeed.com/swoop/logo_small.jpg)
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Looks the same to me, and I had no download. The equal slices came from very intense fighting during USA flight time (was 480 people on when I logged off for bed about 11:00 PM EST) not a map change.
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Maybe....
CLICK ME
(http://store6.yimg.com/I/spongebobstore_1691_565020) (http://www.angelfire.com/on2/Strychnine/soundz/squidward.wav)
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OK, I'll try to be more clear. I suppose the STFU needs some explaining.
Some people want the base capture, the buff raids, the cap:s, lets call these people the strat people. Some like you only want fast intense dogfights, lets call them the furballers. Then there are people that sometimes wants to fight in a big furball, and sometimes they want to capture stuff, or blow stuff up in a bomber.
What you need to realize is that all things are connected. You love furballs, and it would seem you want to spend all your time furballing. Well, that is fine, but you have to realize that not everyone plays AH just for the furballs. If people only wanted furballs, the DA would be crowded.
My point is, all 3 categories of people need eachother for this to be a good game. If AH would shift in a furball-island direction, the strat people would quit. If AH would move in the strat direction, the furballers would quit.
If you would have waited 15 mins or something in the map you would have seen a base starting to flash somewhere. That would be the strat people, the ones who move the front. They would start hitting that base, trying to capture it. This would grab the attention of some strat people on the other side, who would start to defend the flashing base. Soon two big bars would emerge in that sector, something that would catch the eye of the furballers. Soon the furballers would take over the fight in that sector, while most of the strat people would move on to another base, or to a buff mission. When that buff mission took off, people on the other side would note that bar and think "hmm..might be a buff mission inbound", and they would up in high alt interceptors and head for that bar. Meanwhile, the gv-people would be slugging it out somewhere else over some vh-base.
Give the map one hour Lazs, and I guarantee you will find a furball somewhere. Nothing good will come from just sitting here whining and nothing good will come from a furballer or strat-guy trying to force others to play the game the same way he wants to play it.
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hortlund... stfu.
maybe i should explain...my squadmates and are on for an average of 2 hours a nite and some nites there is nothing going on at all. nothing worth doing for us. we do not enjoy milkrunning (strat) or organized gangbanging (missuns).
there are fewer of us on every night. fields far apart don't just kill furballs they kill early war plane usage and they kill gameplay. why would an early war plane risk going to an enemy field 2 sectors away? he will just have to fight the gangbanging faster planes till he dies.
closer fields allw those who like even and large fights a place to do so. the fights tend to be more at midway between the fields with more chance of engaging and RTB once hurt or bingo. Gangbangers won't chase you because they will have to fight the denser masses closer to your field or.... the ack.
so...not everyone enjoys a good even fight but at least let's have some opportunity for it.
lazs
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If nothing else Lazs, gotta give ya this, you are persistent.
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But you have that opportunity now lazs. When the map is reset with each country on one slice, you should have 10-15 frontline bases perfect for furballing. That is ..if people want to furball.
Has the thought crossed your mind that perhaps it was easier to find an active furball in 1.09 because the map was smaller and people were "forced" to furball more?
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Originally posted by AKIron
If nothing else Lazs, gotta give ya this, you are persistent.
Persistent, but not consistent(idea wise)
He whined for an arena where he could find just furballing.
Along came the Dueling arena.
He changes his mind.
He whined for an arena where early war planes could be flown without threat of late war stuff interfering.
Along came the Combat Theatre.
He changes his mind
"I want it to be a main arena that is populated, but no strat potatos, no milk runners"
Whats it this week Lazs?
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-lazs-
I can see why you are disappointed, but I have a suggestion. (Not being fascetious): Why don't you try something else - a different kind of mission? Are you really incapable of extending your interest beyond furballs? I agree that the map is far from ideal, but even its aficionados will tire of it within a few weeks, and then we'll have another map.
Don't buck the system. I've made a few initiatives and had them ignored. I dislike the bar dar and the mission editor, but these it seems are sacrosant to the majority of the player base.
I've found my fun messing about at vehicle fields this tour. Not suggesting you do exactly the same, but give some thought to trying something new. You are an excellent F4U guy, but you don't need to prove it on a daily basis.
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Ripsnort...for some reason I always feel like a virgin when I look at your post count :)
I think lazs has a point about the early war rides though. It is a shame that we dont see them much. To roll a 109E in the MA is just stupid. But at the same time, those early rides have their charm too.
The perk system is good, but I am not sure it is enough. On the other hand I'm not sure a rps is the best solution either, because in effect what you are doing with a rps is force people to play in a way they might not like.
I dont really know how to solve that one though. I read the perk and rps-thread, but I'm not convinced that is the way to go either. It will only be twice as frustrating for someone who cant afford the perks, and all the old sticks have enough perks to fly whatever they want anyway.
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Originally posted by Hortlund
The perk system is good, but I am not sure it is enough. On the other hand I'm not sure a rps is the best solution either, because in effect what you are doing with a rps is force people to play in a way they might not like.
I dont really know how to solve that one though. I read the perk and rps-thread, but I'm not convinced that is the way to go either. It will only be twice as frustrating for someone who cant afford the perks, and all the old sticks have enough perks to fly whatever they want anyway.
Perk/RPS thread:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=56709&referrerid=3203
What other options do we have? Another arena?
note: Lazs critisizes but NEVER comes up with a solution.
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heh, no another arena is the last thing we need. We need to get more people online at the same time at the same place, not spread them out evenly in 3-4 different arenas.
Actually I think the answer is in the size of this map. I dont have any well thought out idea yet, but maybe something along the lines of enabling certain aircraft from certain fields.
As I said, I dont have a good suggestion to solve the problem, but something should be done to encourage early war rides in the MA.
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Lazs critisizes but NEVER comes up with a solution.
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Ive seen plenty of suggestions from the guy. Problem is his delivery pisses most people off so his ideas are lost unfortunately.
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For some cheap thrills, look for a flashing V base, grab a canyon fighter, and jump in. Shoot a couple of M3s and they come back in fighters. Again, and again, and again.....
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Sorta of a thread highjack- but not really.
I just don't understand why all planes cannot have a perk value assigned to them. I'm hashing this out as I write this, so bear with me.
If all planes had perk values, except for the weakest planes, only pilots who are careful, and skilled will have the late war birds. Now, to counter this, each tour, a pilot recieves an allowance of say 200 Perks (in addition to what he already has, plus earning perks for the usual events).
So how would this work out? Would you see more Early war birds in the arena? Sure. Who would be flying them? Those who are outta perks, or are trying to conserve perks. Will these early war birds be at the mercy of the late war aces? Probably, but your chances of mixing it up with another early war bird would increase with this system. Now, all you see is late war stuff.
What else would this system do?
Get players to try new planes they've never flown before.
Give players a goal to earn enough perks for a late war plane.
Make the game more realistic, in the sense that more people will be trying to land their kills instead of augering.
What damage may this system create?
Possibly unbalance the arena.
Cause a great deal of frustration.
May cause people to drop out of AH.
I think this system would be worth at least a trial. If it's not working, we can always go back to the old way.
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Inconsistent?
He has consistently said "an area within an arena"
He has consistently said "separate arenas don't work".
Saying he got what he asked for in the dueling and CT arenas is erroneous.
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I'm going to have to take the popular route and agree with Laz here, pretty much across the board :) I did find a solution though.
Last two times up as a Knight I found the Knits milkrunning/gangbaning some poorly defended bases on it's own slice of the pie or local islands. Cool. I'd just fire up The Operational Art of War or Civ3 -- but whatever floats your boat. Eventually I went to the map room and switched sides to Rooks. Lo and behold, there were a number of heavy actions going on where I had a lot of fun. If the Rooks are stale tonight, I'll look at the map and see if it might be worth switching to Bish or Knit again. Eventually, we'll have more maps and hopefull more people to fill them and I can live with this just fine. But I certainly feel Laz's pain :)
Now, what I hope NEVER happens is the rise of an AW Big pork, where all the sides milkrun/gangbang all the time. That did drive me out of AW after 8 years (a few month's ahead of EA's big announcment) because it was very difficult IMO to find a good fight anywhere. I don't see that happening here, because the arenas reset here and you eventually have to attack a base against resistance.
Another proactive thought. As a lone wulf type, I have to follow the currents and try to find situations/matchups I enjoy. Now, a furball orientated squad could just make it its mission to head to the nearest gangbang, perhaps with other similar-minded squads, and take matters into its own hands switching countries if needed.
Charon
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lemme seee.....sorry, can't quite get my knee to jerk, maybe next time but I wouldnt count on it.
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Originally posted by Apache
Inconsistent?
He has consistently said "an area within an arena"
He has consistently said "separate arenas don't work".
Saying he got what he asked for in the dueling and CT arenas is erroneous.
So, elaborate on the "An area within an arena", with details, and stop slamming everyone that doesn't fly his style,...is THAT too much to ask for? Sheesh!
Edit: Incidently, I am too interested in a "Furball only" type area, since my time is limited online as well! I'd just like to hear a detailed idea, without slamming someone elses style of "Fun".
2nd edit: How about a huge "Crater Lake" type plateau (no lake though) that has high mountain sides that would disallow any "strat intruders" into the area? Something like Furball Island in the other terrain, but with mountains to keep the furballs contained?
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BANANAS !
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2nd edit: How about a huge "Crater Lake" type plateau (no lake though) that has high mountain sides that would disallow any "strat intruders" into the area? Something like Furball Island in the other terrain, but with mountains to keep the furballs contained?
Hehehe. Hey Curly, do this look familiar? :p
Wab
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Would be nice to see the CT set up for furballers a couple of nights a week. No base capture allowed, no bombs allowed, only1 plane allowed, no cannon planes allowed and only early war planes allowed. And how about the guy left standing is crowned "King of the Hill". Allow the "king" to pick the next nights plane!
I bet this would empty the MA.
What....what did you say... we...we what.......Ya.....when is that?
Each week?....in the middle of the week!! Gosh! Why all the whining then?
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Originally posted by OZkansas
Would be nice to see the CT set up for furballers a couple of nights a week. No base capture allowed, no bombs allowed, only1 plane allowed, no cannon planes allowed and only early war planes allowed. And how about the guy left standing is crowned "King of the Hill". Allow the "king" to pick the next nights plane!
I bet this would empty the MA.
What....what did you say... we...we what.......Ya.....when is that?
Each week?....in the middle of the week!! Gosh! Why all the whining then?
(Can't believe I'm saying this) In defense of Lazs, not all can attend this, and I'd like to see it when I log in whenever MY time schedule fits it...
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Hehehe. Hey Curly, do this look familiar? :p
Wab
Why did we nix that idea anyhow Wabb?
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Originally posted by Hortlund
OK, I'll try to be more clear. I suppose the STFU needs some explaining.......
Nothing good will come from just sitting here whining and nothing good will come from a furballer or strat-guy trying to force others to play the game the same way he wants to play it.
Bullseye!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by AKIron
Why did we nix that idea anyhow Wabb?
Ya know what? When we, the BK's, first saw the new map, some of us thought maybe lazs "area within an arena" was going to be tried out.
But alas...sigh.
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Rip, you may want to look here. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51372)
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The subject of this thread needs to be changed to Fighter Ace 3.0
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As for Lazs and consistency, he has been supremely consistant. I don't agree with his ideas on arena layout necessarily, but I clearly understand them. C'mon, Rip, with that post count you certainly read them, too. Just in case you didn't, he wants an "All-in-one" arena that has a section for early-war a/c. He wants bases to be closer together. He wants the impact of bombing to be negligible on furballs. Really, the only knock on Lazs I have is he tends to dump hard on ideas he doesn't like, whether he has given their implementation a try or not. As stated before, that tends to make his ideas be taken less seriously when he does forward them.
I think you know all this already.
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Originally posted by Mathman
Rip, you may want to look here. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51372)
Thks Math, missed that one!
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Ya know what? When we, the BK's, first saw the new map, some of us thought maybe lazs "area within an arena" was going to be tried out.
I think his idea might have some merit.
If Laz has a vision, then he and some of you BK ought to grab the editor and make it happen.
If you guys don't take his idea serious enough to be willing to put some effort behind it to make it a reality, why should anyone else?
Hitech has given anyone with a vision all the tools they need to make it a reality.
Regards,
Wab
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The subject of this thread needs to be changed to Fighter Ace 3.0
Or perhaps SVGA AW? Back when bombers and goons were only used (gross oversimplification noted) for getting the neutral bases closer to the ACM action :) Those were really great maps that brought all the action together in the same general place. But they would be impractical here for bandwidth purposes (and in fact became impractical in AW after the AOL/gamestorm number boost). [edit: still, the concept might work well in a CT environment where the numbers more closely match AW FR numbers and where the unused thrid conutry could fill in as the neutral bases (Hasn't this been tried in a setup or two already?). I played for many years where 75 in the arena was a good evening.]
I really like the new map in general, I just think we need more numbers for it to see its full potential for every type of player.
Charon
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Originally posted by Lazs
maybe i should explain...my squadmates and are on for an average of 2 hours a nite and some nites there is nothing going on at all. nothing worth doing for us. we do not enjoy milkrunning (strat) or organized gangbanging (missuns).
...
lazs
LOL....only 2 hours a nite...
I'm happy when I can get 6 hours a week... :rolleyes:
Just a question: if your online time is so limited, why do you spend it posting in almost every CT thread, although everyone on this board has already understood that you don't like the concept of this arena....
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
I think his idea might have some merit.
If Laz has a vision, then he and some of you BK ought to grab the editor and make it happen.
If you guys don't take his idea serious enough to be willing to put some effort behind it to make it a reality, why should anyone else?
Hitech has given anyone with a vision all the tools they need to make it a reality.
Regards,
Wab
You mean...work? Work on a computer? At home?
Nooooo, pleaseeeeee!
Seriously, I actually was considering just that. I downloaded the editor yesterday and am going to give it a go.
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I still wonder, and forever will wonder, why so many people want to continue stuffing everyone into one single arena. The problems associated with the MA--mass gangbanging, 40-50 plane netlag-causing furballs, rampant milkrunning, these problems only get WORSE as you increase map size/player numbers.
Although at one point I thought that maybe Lazs' area arena might work, I've come to the conclusion that it wouldnt--it'd only serve to concentrate the fighting somewhat as nearly everyone would be in the late-war area. Earlier planes just don't have the appeal that the late-war rides have, even when they're able to operate unmolested.
What AH really needs is to open up two MA's limited to around 250 and get rid of the pathetic terrain in the DA in favor of something more useful.
J_A_B
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"although everyone on this board has already understood that you don't like the concept of this arena...."
Because you are not allowed to have non-lazsic fun.
Daff
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Seriously, I actually was considering just that. I downloaded the editor yesterday and am going to give it a go.
Outstanding! Thats what I want to hear.
Just be sure to design it all out in a bitmap firstand get HT to agree to it before you burn editor hours. If I can be of any help let me know.
Regards,
Wab
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Originally posted by Daff
"although everyone on this board has already understood that you don't like the concept of this arena...."
Because you are not allowed to have non-lazsic fun.
Daff
Hehe, Daff reflects Lazs previous pilot career in WB's and AGW. :D
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Originally posted by Apache
You mean...work? Work on a computer? At home?
Nooooo, pleaseeeeee!
Seriously, I actually was considering just that. I downloaded the editor yesterday and am going to give it a go.
Now get 'cher lazy bellybutton squaddie to help you (Lazs) ;)
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Outstanding! Thats what I want to hear.
Just be sure to design it all out in a bitmap firstand get HT to agree to it before you burn editor hours. If I can be of any help let me know.
Regards,
Wab
Thanks for the info Wabbit and the offer to help. I'll give ya a yell if I get stuck, (which is a high probability).
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Originally posted by Daff
"although everyone on this board has already understood that you don't like the concept of this arena...."
Because you are not allowed to have non-lazsic fun.
Daff
Sure you can have non-lazsic fun. Its called hooligistic fun.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Now get 'cher lazy bellybutton squaddie to help you (Lazs) ;)
Got to get him away from the Healy. A difficult undertaking.
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You UBB cops are the ones who should stfu, if HTC doesn't want him voicing his opinion about gameplay issues it's up to them to say so.
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Originally posted by weazel
You UBB cops are the ones who should stfu, if HTC doesn't want him voicing his opinion about gameplay issues it's up to them to say so.
Guess anyone can tell anyone else here to stfu for whatever reason they like eh? As you say, only one to make it stick is HTC.
Sometimes I have penchant for stating the obvious, just can't help it. :D
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Well, when 1.10 came out, the 13th TAS agreed to ditch our ponies and fly the P-40 exclusively. We were going to become an exclusive P-40 squadron.
We all hopped into our new rides, just to discover that when taking off from fields at a 13k elevation, the P-40 was out of it's performance envelope...add to that 51's and others coming in at 25k made for less than what we expected. We did just fine, but realized that we could catch nothing in this plane. Few would stay and fight.
Now, I'm not of the same ilk as Lazs, however, I can understand what he's after. He just wants some action and feels that the chances of this happening on a consistent basis has lessened.
If I flew as he does, I would feel the same.
I have noticed that it takes more effort to find a fight in this new map, however, my MO is takeoff, point the nose to red stuff and then afk for a smoke. When I return, I'm usually where the action is. That doesn't work for everyone.
I see only two real, comprehensive solutions to this....one, an additional 150-300 folks populating our little world(will happen in time)...two, bring back the rps.
Anything else I'm afraid, is a partial fix. I'de love to fly the P-40, but not against other aircraft that can run away. Any of you who have fought the 13th know that we stay and fight irregardless...but the arena as a whole is not that way and that's cool...folks should fight the way they choose. I guess I would like to see the playing field leveled to some extent and during my twelve years online, the RPS came the closest. It wasn't perfect, but it's not a perfect world. Just my two cents worth.
Hang in there Lazs...one thing is certain, change. HTC is not about to lay down...I would wager some cool things will show up and our little online virtual world will just get better.
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omg, Rude now knows what it's like to sit in a slow plane while everything else is nigh untouchable! *runs to find shelter* It's apocalypse time, I tells ya!
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Apache and AKWabbit
I too have DL'd the editor, I am puting together a historic terrain and making it all things to everyone....a daunting task indeed. Hopefully I will get a bunch of it done this evening, at least layout wise to send off to HTC so I can continue.
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So lazs2 was going on about
When I got on, the pizza map was now divided into three equal slices. One for each country. No field was less than a sector and a half away from an enemy field..
That was the result of an aggressive Knight campaign to recapture our little slice of the pie after being pushed back to only half a slice. The campaign stalled due to the long distances trying to traverse the rivers without the aid of a carrier group. We tried island-hopping with some success, but couldn't get a foothold on the other side due to all of the Bishops flying LA-7s and Spitfires and, of course, no fewer than 2 Me-262s circling our base and the airway at will. For some reason, our carriers were located way back in the corner (we probably lost our other carriers on the front earlier in the day).
So lazs2 was going on about
The lack of action was staggering.. early war planes were circling their fields. Why would they venture out 1 and a half sectors to be B&Zed all the way home for their efforts?
That's exactly what happened to me when I tried to go feet dry in an FM-2. I could get into a fight with the Spitfires and Hurricanes and P-40s (about the only planes slow enough for an FM-2 to catch), but the LA-7s and 262s would catch me on the return leg. After getting into a turnfight with a couple of Spits and a Hurricane, only to get killed by a BnZ, I decided to call it a night. We had our slice of the world already.
So lazs2 was going on about
it's a big friggin map... can't we have some close fields or, better yet, a little corner where only early war planes are allowed to take off and a barren zone above that of 4 sectors or so... enough fieldless terrain so that attention starved late war flyers can't get to the early war area?
lazs
You mean like the idea I floated earlier, where the near, smaller fields would spawn the early-war rides and the larger mid-to-rear fields would spawn the later-war rides? Brilliant minds think alike :) I also think there should be two types of carriers - ones that are bigger and can launch the later-war rides and smaller escort-type ones that can only launch the A6M2, the FM-2 and F4F (planes with limited bombing capacity but lots of dogfighting potential). The heavier fighters and bombers would require the longer flight deck of the larger carriers.
Just my ideas.
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So beet1e came in and calmed us all down by saying
-lazs-
I can see why you are disappointed, but I have a suggestion. (Not being fascetious): Why don't you try something else - a different kind of mission? I've found my fun messing about at vehicle fields this tour. Not suggesting you do exactly the same, but give some thought to trying something new. You are an excellent F4U guy, but you don't need to prove it on a daily basis.
I can attest to beet1e's skill at gunnery. He drilled me over an airfield by sitting in a gun station (either that or I popped a wing and gave him an easy proximity kill). I saw him land several kills sitting in a gun station playing base defense.
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beetle... i got nothing to prove. I just want good fights. In the arena that I am given....... I make the best of it by flying a medium plane so as to get the most out of the arena. If we had an early war area I would fly several planes of medium ability. Fighting other planes is what I am here for. The other stuff doesn't interest me for various reasons.
go faster.. how would you keep late war planes away from the early war ones. seems that with your plan the cheerypickers would have an even easier time and the early war planes have even less fun.
lazs
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I agree with Lazs on this.This map is not very much fun unless you are milkrunning or have a huge squad gangbanging a field.
Now ak's don't get your panties in a bunch but this map is just silly looking.And I think way too many fields,strat ect. were crammed into the map.to the detrement of the whole.The immersion factor is 0.And the overall feel is very Quake-like.:(
That being said,I do appreciate the work and effort that was put forth even if it is not to my liking.I am curious as to what Apache and others can come up with.
As for some of you not liking what Lazs has to say then tell him so.But at least he has the guts to say what he thinks with no politically correct crap interfering with it.I like that.:p
Frodo
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Originally posted by lazs2
go faster.. how would you keep late war planes away from the early war ones. seems that with your plan the cheerypickers would have an even easier time and the early war planes have even less fun.
lazs
My thinking is that it would take longer for the late-war planes to enter the battle. The late-war speedburners will always be able to cherry pick whether they launch from near or far, but since the early war planes are slower and take longer to enter combat, then it seems appropriate that they should have the privilege of entering the dogfights from closer to the front - sort of a way to equalize transit times. I also figure that impatient people (such as myself) would just as soon grab a Hurricane II or a P-40B than a Spit IX if it meant that they could get into the fight 10 or 15 minutes sooner. The fact that the early war planes could only carry a very light bomb load means that there would be more furballs than bomb runs if the early war rides were utilized as front-line attackers.
Sure, there'd still be a lot Mustangs, Spitfires, LA-7s, Nik2s, B-17s, and Lancasters milling about, but those guys would've had to have come from farther away, and during their ingress the airspace would've been the playground of early war planes.
At least, that's my theory.
As for CVs, by having two classes, it opens up the naval strategy a bit. For example, let's say that a smaller escort carrier regenerates faster than the full-size carrier. Let's also say that the CVE (escort carrier) can only transport the early-war naval fighters, C-47s, and maybe the Dauntless and Val. These carriers could be used for base defense, vehicle and port base captures, and as screeners for the strike packages launching from the bigger carriers when capturing the larger airfields. Since the CVEs would regen quicker if sunk, then it seems that they would be the ones sent into the riskier operations, and would have greater abundance in the arena as the play goes on.
What do you think?
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Oddly enough, this map is pushing me out of Mosquitoes and into P-51Bs or Spitfire Mk IXs. Everything is too high and too fast. Mossie had a chance before, but here even when I pull them down to where I can fight there are gobs of higher enemies that ensure I lose.
Bye bye Mossie.:(
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It's so immersive fighting American planes with American planes, British planes with Russian planes, Knights vs Bishops, etc...
If you want immersion, the Combat Theater has that written all over it. But to use it as a reason why you don't like a map in the MA, atleast I can appreciate that the size is too much, and too many fields, etc (all made to HT's specifications, not ours)...
but what kind of immersion did you get from the quakeball MA before Frodo?
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
It's so immersive fighting American planes with American planes, British planes with Russian planes, Knights vs Bishops, etc...
Noooo, but that's like it was in the real war, wasn't it?
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I play in the CT whenever there are enough on.Come to think of it I don't recall ever seeing any ak's in the CT.
"but what kind of immersion did you get from the quakeball MA before Frodo? "
A tad bit more than I do now,for sure.
:rolleyes:
Why not just a desert map.Why a pizza/peace symbol or whatever it is?I thought this was a WWII Sim?
Did you guys have these kind of maps in A/W?:rolleyes:
Frodo
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Originally posted by Frodo:
Why not just a desert map.Why a pizza/peace symbol or whatever it is?I thought this was a WWII Sim?
Easy. Balance. No historival terrain that I have ever seen is balanced. Has the noodleula country on Midano ever been reset? If so, very, very rarely. The noodlelua is a huge advantage. It puts all of your factories in the rear and ensures that you will never have both enemy nations pounding you.
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Played it. Don't like it. Too many bugs right now and I'm not really having any fun.
Fun, that's what it' supposd to be about, isn't it?
Don't like posting here much but I've been flying for a long time.
Take care all and I am sure you will all flame away at this simple statement.
Cheers,
RKLS
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Air Warrior? Wouldn't know, never flew it.
No, true, I don't play in the CT... sometimes I do, haven't very often, I simply don't feel like it most the time. Your point is what? I, nor any other AKs, are the ones saying anything about immersion, or the lack there of, in the main arena- you are. I was saying, if you want immersion, the CT is full of it. You want to play land grab quake ball that has 3 countries going at each other at once, that's what the MA is for.
I asked you what KIND of immersion you got in the quakeball MA before, Frodo, but you only answered it by using a statement that doesn't answer the question.
What kind of immersion do you get from the quakeball MA? I got BnZed by 2 Ponies tonite, in a F4F4 with a SpitV wingman.... how could you get immersed by that?
-SW
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Ok you didn't play A/W.But isn't this where your squad came from?
If the CT had a bigger player base you would not see me in the main much,but that is not the case.Not everyone likes the CT and not everyone likes this map.So what,it's a game and life goes on.
Yes there are tradeoffs to try and satisfy all points of view in the main.No way around it.But my point is why take away from what little immersion there is by looking down and seeing a pizza?Does this answer your question?
The little immersion there is,is WWII A/C fighting each other.Thats about it in the main,but looking down at a pizza makes it silly.This is my opinion and nothing more.Not an attack on you or any other ak.I would guess that 50% or more playing this game don't have a clue as to what a/c fought what a/c and where anyway.Thats why I fly all the events and scenarios I can.It seems that some ak's do also.The main is just a way to fill in and get some practice.:D
Don't be so defensive if possible and listen to what people have to say.A lot of people posting have expressed appreciation of the efffort that went into it.Myself included.Others just like to pull the ak chain to get a response.
Also others have made some great maps for this game.The ak's aren't the only map makers in the game.
BTW..whatever happened to nimitz?
Frodo
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If we wanted balance we'd all be flying 262's. There'd be no need for historical models even, just some generic 'plane'.
A little imbalance makes things interesting.
And yes I believe I have seen at least one occassion where the noodleula was reset, I remember once when the Knights were getting hit on the north and 'invaded' on the south tip.
Originally posted by Karnak
Easy. Balance. No historival terrain that I have ever seen is balanced. Has the noodleula country on Midano ever been reset? If so, very, very rarely. The noodlelua is a huge advantage. It puts all of your factories in the rear and ensures that you will never have both enemy nations pounding you.
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milkrunning is getting right boring, even found a place where you can milkrun in less then 1 min!! Never thought I'd agree with anything Laz says, but hes got it right. No consistant fun fights at the times Im on, like the old channel on the baltic, or a43-a5 on mindinao, or a1-a4 on ndisles. Its find one guy kill him, hoping the other 6 dont killsteal. Or its hmm p-40 looks like fun, I'll take her up for a spin and you got 6 typhs,ponies and spits on you. This map was fun for the first couple of days now its getting kinda moldy, like the textures. Though overall its a sorta good map just a little tweaking and maybe itll fix it. Spawnpoints need to be spread out and further. I stopped a capture yesterday cause my M8 got to the field faster then his goon did. Thats kinda lame, same today. V33 has a spawnpoint 1k out from it. Up in tank kill ack, kill vh drive 300 meters, land, up m3, drive 800meters capture. Maybe close some vhs and maybe even some fields. Not fun to fly 1 sector only to find nothing going on. Just tweak the thing a little see what comes out I think. I just hope this 60s beatnik map design goes away after this one.
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double post
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I'm not being defensive, I wanted to know where you could get immersion from in the MA. I guess you can do it, but I sure can't, regardless of the map. If I was being defensive, I would of denied all of your arguments and said the map was perfect- it's just you... but I didn't.
No, this squad is not from Air Warrior, it was formed here in AH by me, AKWabbit and AKDejavu in early 2000.
I've been flying here since Beta Tour 3.
It looks nothing like a pizza or peace symbol, or mercedes benz symbol, when you have it zoomed in... otherwise it's so cluttered the map is utterly useless. Without the map, you can't even tell what it is.
So basically the shape argument people have is a fairly anal complaint since you have to use the map zoomed in otherwise it's totally useless... unless you like looking at a bunch of garbled up neon red and neon green icons.
We are the only ones who have made maps for the MA, I know many others have made maps for the CT.
EDIT: Nothing happened to Nimitz, he flies more in the MA than post here.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
No, this squad is not from Air Warrior, it was formed here in AH by me, AKWabbit and AKDejavu in early 2000.
Wulfie, the AK's were a squad in AirWarrior at least as early as '94. I flew with them briefly, though they may have briefly used another name, boneheads, I think. Anyhow, they were a Genie squad as early as '92, maybe earlier. They were also one of the first (if not the first) squads in Red Baron on TSN. I was a WingWalker then. Not denying that you, Wabb, and DJ brought the AK's to Aces High though.
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Iron, the squad "2/AH" was formed here. We flew together before hand in several games before... the original members that flew in Air Warrior rarely fly here.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe
Iron, the squad "2/AH" was formed here. We flew together before hand in several games before... the original members that flew in Air Warrior rarely fly here.
-SW
Right Wulfie, guess I shoulda just pointed out that the AK's were a squad that grew into a Brigade and divided into squads of which the AH branch were mostly relatively new members. Also, We still have members that fly Red Baron almost exclusively and some here that yearn for a WWI MMPG. None still fly AirWarrior though. ;)
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Originally posted by Vulcan
And yes I believe I have seen at least one occassion where the noodleula was reset, I remember once when the Knights were getting hit on the north and 'invaded' on the south tip.
I remember that. Was one of the most fun times in the MA I've had as a Knight. :)
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clyd agrees.(http://www.e-studley.iwarp.com/images/clyd.jpg)
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Weaselsan..
I think your in trouble..
and it looks serious
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I'm in the CT alot.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Frodo
I play in the CT whenever there are enough on.Come to think of it I don't recall ever seeing any ak's in the CT.
"but what kind of immersion did you get from the quakeball MA before Frodo? "
A tad bit more than I do now,for sure.
:rolleyes:
Why not just a desert map.Why a pizza/peace symbol or whatever it is?I thought this was a WWII Sim?
Did you guys have these kind of maps in A/W?:rolleyes:
Frodo
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Ok i cant hear all these complainings anymore.
We got a cool update and we got new map and all that happens it that people starting to complain again about this and that.
What u guys really want ? A perfect game ? Forget it u will never get a game that satisfiy at least 50%.
There will be allwayas a point some 1 can complain about.
I appreciate all the work from the Ak's on the new map. They did a really good job.
Ok, the map isnt perfect and there are for sure a lot of things we could change and i guess most of u guys have some good ideas.
But just posting this stuff here and complaining is no real sollution. As we see ( with the new and bigger map ) we all have some effect on whats next in this game or what cam maybe be changed in an new update.
Why not do some of the gyus who want to have some changes in the map, downlaod the terrain editor and make change. THen send the map to HTC or Ak's and discuss it. ?
That way u can really shjow them what ur idea is and it can maybe be realized.
This will be more effective.
So what about the new plane set ?
I can understand that some people see no sence for it, but what about CT and Scenarios ?
IMHO Scenarios are way more interesting then stupid MA banging or gettin banged.
There a re more then enough late and mid war planes in the plane set to fly and there will be for sure some more in the next patch. so why u cry that u getting not this and that plane u want ?
I want a ferrari and ? I dont have em so far.
We have currently more planes in the plane set then any other SIM has and had ever.
I can see that there is no really space for early war planes because u just have no chance against La7 Doras. So DONT FLY EM. Or use em for little missions in undefended area or whatever.
But for scenarios it is great.
And let me say a word to the game support. IMHO it is great. We having a game where we getting updates around all three to four month. we getting patches to fix bugs and we having people in the board like skuzzy and lephturn, (i believe i forgot some more,) who care about other problems and try to help as good as they can.
And in which other game the staff have a look in the game to tell latest stuff and talk about problems ??
I am not sure but what i have seen so far in no other game this happens.
Let me say a last thing about the current map.
IMO the main problem on that is not that it is to big the main problem is that we dont have 400+ players online every time.
This map is for sure to big fior 60 players like we had 2 days ago in the morning european time but for the prime time it is great.
What we still need is a map rotation.
Before the people, who are working on the new maps are finisahed we need the old once back in the game if it still possible. Just 1 map is kinda boring isnt it ?
Dont get it wrong. This is a general statement.
Dont get it personal.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Wulfie, the AK's were a squad in AirWarrior at least as early as '94. I flew with them briefly, though they may have briefly used another name, boneheads, I think. Anyhow, they were a Genie squad as early as '92, maybe earlier. They were also one of the first (if not the first) squads in Red Baron on TSN. I was a WingWalker then. Not denying that you, Wabb, and DJ brought the AK's to Aces High though.
Do you remember any plane numbers of the guys flying for them then (my last, and most oft used one, was 6533)? I was active in AW in '92 and I don't recall the squad at all. Boneheads doesn't ring a bell either unfortunately. I was flying in '94 as well and I draw a blank there too. Although things moved to AoL around that time, or perhaps it was '95? I didn't stay long there, so if they first appeared then that'd be easy to miss.
Just curious as its always nice to run accross folks you knew from that era, when online sims were in their infancy.
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freeze... a lot of the "complaints" have suggestions for improvement in them. A lot of guys only fly the MA. scenarios and the CT and all that are not important to a large majority that fly the MA. We would like the early war planes to be useful and we would like some areas that supported a lot of action. This map tends to go further away from both those goals as it is.
there are ways to make a larger percentage of the MA denizens happy but this map is not it as it stands.
lazs
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I know what ya mean lazs. THe problem IMO is just that people should organize themself with others and prepare maybe somethig that u can show to HT or were ever creating maps. Maybe we can modifie some H2H maps to bring them in the game.
Ok maybe we need more arenas like in Aw with for example PAC ;ETO ;Early war stuff ?
and.... what i really mean with complainings is that we all now what we can expect and we all are ormally exited about that what will come in the next patch.
It is all good untill the patch release. short while after the patch is in use i see the first complainings. why not trying to have some influence about whats comin next. I mean we are paying members and for the most if us this isnt just a game it is more like a hobby. Thats what it is for me at least.
And we have a lot of people that are flying since the first day and they should have some influence or they should have at least the right to get heared maybe about what the communitiy things about the changes HTC is going to do.
Not that any 1 from HTC get me wrong this is nothing against u.
IMO maybe i am going to far to say is that some of the VETS (Ripsnort, Fester, Lazer just to say some names) should speak for us ?
Its just a guess correct if i am wrong
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Laz2 camp here.
This map deletes early war aircraft fun. I really enjoyed the P40 till P51's naturally were at large alt only 1 sector over, then just auger or frustrate yourself before the inevitable. Why you would do that... Why entertain the wolves?
What I find hard to get used to is launching from a field and then realizing it's 10-15 minutes to cons. The size is a problem, but maybe just needs adjusting too? Dunno, Beta flyer here, and miss the action. I, in all optimism and a long time HTC supporter, will be surprised if I adjust FULLY to the new format. It’s still FUN.
Anyway, you should fly late war birds that can climb on this map, sustain grabbin flight ala range, or suffer complete frustration. Makes me think early plane war sets are a addition complete to a point. No one will crave them but the Scenario faithful or completely in denial fans of a particular aircraft now that the P40 useless has been modelled. We will see a lot of odd and late war fighters in subsequent releases.
Don’t hate me for seeing obvious stuff.
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creamo... nothing wrong with seeing the obvious. heck, if it wasn;t obvious I wouldn't see it.
I don't believe that in a group of 500 players that more than about 50-60 at any one time, would enjoy early war. I believe that the early war area should be small to reflect this. I would like it to have canyons and close fields to show off the early war planes strengths. I believe that most would fly in the early war area from time to time and have a blast. The early war area would simply mean more choice to most and be a lifesaver for the early war only set.
I also feel that you can't force players to do much or they leave for a sim that is more slanted to their type of fun. The goal is to allow everyone to enjoy what they like whild offering the most choice. I haven't seen anything that is better than the "area arena" idea yet except..... you might be able to have several arenas with maps that you could toggle through and launch from. Still....
The area arena seems to offer the best combination of both choice and parity while giving us the variety we need to stay.
lazs
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Originally posted by Vortex
Do you remember any plane numbers of the guys flying for them then (my last, and most oft used one, was 6533)? I was active in AW in '92 and I don't recall the squad at all. Boneheads doesn't ring a bell either unfortunately. I was flying in '94 as well and I draw a blank there too. Although things moved to AoL around that time, or perhaps it was '95? I didn't stay long there, so if they first appeared then that'd be easy to miss.
Just curious as its always nice to run accross folks you knew from that era, when online sims were in their infancy.
Sorry, don't remember any of the numbers and I was on for less than a month in '94, HeadHunter was the CO at the time. However, at least 2 of us did Airwarrior before that. Me and AKWabbit, though neither of us were AK's then. I was a FUBAR '90-'91 and it seems my id was 1253, not sure though.
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Early war planes are great for base defense.
Try it, you'll like it!
eskimo
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Lazs...
I'll bet ya a Coke Classic at the con, that HT will make it all better. Why would they build the early war rides without a plan to use them?
I believe HTC is merely building the infrastructure necessary for them to complete a vision which they have had in place for some time now.
Patience....in the meantime, we all must bear our crosses. Myself, being the opportunistic sky accountant that I am, have had struggles at times finding good furtile ground. Inspite of that, I've still managed to get my $15.00/month's worth of fun outta this crazy, way out thing called Aces High...hang in there!
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Can I get a P38 or a Chog while you up Eskimo in your "great defence fighters"?????
Please, I'll chop your fool wagons into HTC confetti bomb's till I have to run away and git more ammo, uncatchable, 45 minutes back to base.
I'd take seeing a few defenders, but slow, impossible outclassed drones piloted by AH HTC zealots would be really sweet.
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Originally posted by Creamo
Can I get a P38 or a Chog while you up Eskimo in your "great defence fighters"?????
Please, I'll chop your fool wagons into HTC confetti bomb's till I have to run away and git more ammo, uncatchable, 45 minutes back to base.
I'd take seeing a few defenders, but slow, impossible outclassed drones piloted by AH HTC zealots would be really sweet.
LOL Creamo, sometimes I really don't know what you are trying to say? Just read that 3 times... don't have much more than a clue.
Anyway, get an early twisty plane up before the enemy de-acks the field and you can frustrate the hell out of many attackers.
Since as a defender, you are low and out numbered, all you can do is out-turn and evade them. Make em burn their E and play the twisty game. Avoid classic six shots, his wingman will get you before you get him, go for HOs and deflection snap-shots. The early planes play this role much better than the late war rides, IMO.
It's a bordom free blast!
eskimo
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eskimo... I think what creamo is saying is that he (we) love to see some dufus up in an early war plane so that he/we can vultch the snot out of the guy with no fear of him doing anything to hurt us. early war planes are meat in this arena. they do slightly better in some situations than others but they are the worst choice of plane in any situation. They can be ignored and B&Zed at will and they have no recourse.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
eskimo... I think what creamo is saying is that he (we) love to see some dufus up in an early war plane so that he/we can vultch the snot out of the guy with no fear of him doing anything to hurt us. early war planes are meat in this arena. they do slightly better in some situations than others but they are the worst choice of plane in any situation. They can be ignored and B&Zed at will and they have no recourse.
lazs
Are you talking about when you do base attack? When you attack a base, you can't ignore anything. Anything with guns can kill a goon (and eventually kill you), spoil a capture, and must be delt with.
When you B+Z an early war twisty plane, he can very quickly turn and face you. This gives him a HO shot, or at least a deflection shot if you decide not to honor the HO. This is what makes the early planes so dangerous as base defenders. Many late war rides take too long to build up energy to be any good for defense. An A6M can up, turn 90 degrees and point straight up before a P-47 can get up and off the stall horn.
As an attacker, I especially fear the Hurri-IIC (HOicane). That dang thing is practically a flying turret with 4 Hispanos. Much better for base defense than even the almighty C-Hog.
I've been flying the A6M5 (not all that early, but slow and twisty) and the 109F. Both are great planes for evasive turns and can quickly turn an enemies vulch shot into a "Oh crap, he's gonna HO me!" situation.
The Hog-One that you fly is kind of in it's own league for early planes, relatively fast but not so good at out-turning all of a mixed bag of enemy. F4F may be a better defender if you like the blue kind, but I've yet to try it out.
eskimo
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Originally posted by lazs2
can't we have some close fields or, better yet, a little corner where only early war planes are allowed to take off and a barren zone above that of 4 sectors or so...
There's such a corner, somewhere, press quit, then dueling arean, look at northeastern corner...
If it's just about furballing, why not furball there?
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ccvi... it is an early war only arena? Besides.. I have often said that seperate arenas don't work well.
eskimo... base capture? soon as all the fighter hangers are dead I'm outta there. I don't care about base capture except.... If my teammates are willing to capture a base that is close to an enemy base... I am happy. Less diwstance to fly to the next fight. Base defense? if it is not hopless then it is a good fight and I do fair in my -1A... if it is hopeless.... I don't bother taking off. If I am in an early war plane I can't chase down the survivors or steal the kills of survivors from teammates.
lazs
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Rarely do we kill fighter hangers anymore during a base capture, takes all the vulching fun away. :D
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Hey Lazs, thanks for the memory. Where is Hortlund these days?
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Just a thought,
Make the Festermap the DA map in addition to its use in MA.
Separate it into sectors.
Private dueling area only.
Late warplane area.
Early warplane area.
GV area.
Separate the areas by neutral bases.
Enable scoring as in CT and MA.
Disable bombs and troops.
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/revokes Beet1e's bump privilege for a week
Reverend Max
13th SAS Chaplain
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Originally posted by Virage
The subject of this thread needs to be changed to Fighter Ace 3.0
They have the same problem with late war rides - when they introduce rolling planesets - which I think is pretty cool over say 24 or 48 hours then the screams of angiush could be heard in neighbouring states....they have tiny maps, 3 or 4 bases per side on 5 sided country specific maps - they do have a furballers arena for those with attention deficit disorder though.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
- they do have a furballers arena for those with attention deficit disorder though.
:lol
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Was also called the "Crayon Room" by unkind people who sneered at the double accelleration, no spin, no ammo or fuel needed dweebs who piloted their x-wings in there......
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ROFL! The Crayon Room™ :aok
I like that. That's what we can call the DA if they were ever to model my map with three overlapping fields and put it in there.
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so your point was....
That everyone disliked the pizza abortion from the very beggining... or, that I was right from the start or... that wolfa shouldn't design little tinny maps in the head to head arena for the head to head guys... or, that fighter ace attracts imature people... or, that a furball arena with unlmited ammo and no flight model or spins or realism is not a very realistic arena?
or maybe you just wanted to know what happened to hortlund? I think he is still active in the oclub from time to time when he isn't being banned.
lazs
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You missed it completely. It was a smokescreen to disguise the real issue - women's voting rights.