Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Furzy on September 22, 2001, 06:54:00 PM

Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: Furzy on September 22, 2001, 06:54:00 PM: Im sure this has been Asked for before. Like how hard can it be to Add a fixed gun platform onto a Ju88!. 2 15mm or more would be nice.

Those who say Night fighter Stuff.. Look At Lancaster It a Night Buff Ju88 with Schrag Would be Nice Intercept for Scenario's ;)

Furzy

1.08 soon please I see rats crawling the walls I need a fix
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: Furzy on September 22, 2001, 07:03:00 PM: Thinking about this More. Shrage would be just like a B17's Upper Guns Firing forward at 45 degrees<or whatever angle they used>. Got to be easy to implement.

Furzy
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: Karnak on September 22, 2001, 07:05:00 PM: The Japanese actually used that setup more than the Germans did.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: AG Sach on September 22, 2001, 08:24:00 PM: Karnak where is the proof on that? Interesting considering it was a german enlisted crewman that invented it
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: brady on September 22, 2001, 08:30:00 PM: They used it alot AG.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: pdog_109 on September 22, 2001, 09:08:00 PM: Japense night fighters with Shrage Musik. Against who? P-61s? Never heard of this. Shrage Musik is 20mm. It would be hard to implement on the ju88 as the sighting device would have to be modeled and a new view system. Useless anyway, no one flies at night. Just play Target for Tonight night bomber sim and you can do it.
What japanese fighters used it?
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 22, 2001, 10:06:00 PM: The Japanese DID use schrage-musik installations in their nightfighters.

However I have no idea wheter or not they used in large numbers or certainly so much to support Karnaks statement.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: pdog_109 on September 22, 2001, 10:19:00 PM: Well i would think so that they used it in small numbers. Compare japans night threat from america and compare germanies night threat from england. Only thing they would shoot down is P-61s where with shrage musik germans shot down heavy bomber.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: juzz on September 22, 2001, 10:23:00 PM: P1Y1-S(4x20mm)
Ki-45-KAIc(2x20mm)
J1N1-S(4x20mm: 2 up, 2 down)
Ki-46-III-KAI(1x37mm)

A German crewman "invented" upward firing guns in WW2? I think not.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/vick161-b.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/vick161-b.jpg)

The idea of upward firing guns was around in WW1, and the Japanese had production a/c with them before the Germans did.

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: juzz ]
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: pdog_109 on September 22, 2001, 10:32:00 PM: Pic doesn't show. Rudi Schoenert was the first who installed fixed, 75 degree elevated cannons with a separate gun sight in his Do 217, and weapons sergeant Mahle made also the first "Schrae Musik"
installation in a Bf-110, the plane of Cpt. Wilhelm Johnen. What do you suggest that the germans copied from the japanese? Thats sounds silly.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: brady on September 22, 2001, 10:34:00 PM: They used theam aganst B 29's to name but one Buff.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: brady on September 22, 2001, 10:36:00 PM: As silly as the main AP round for the US 50cal browning being moddeled on a Russian 12.7mm AP round?(Projectial), or the P 51 being a British Invention?

Silly is as silly does :)

[ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: brady ]
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: Karnak on September 23, 2001, 01:49:00 AM: Remember guys, the Japanese were in desparate straights with the B-29s. The Japanese had very few aircraft that could perform adequately at altitude and anything that allowed them to shoot at 29s from a lower alt was a "very good thing" from their perspective.

All of the aircraft that Juzz listed were used in combat, and not just at night.

I'm sorry if that offends your image of German uniqueness in this case, but that is how it was.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: Wotan on September 23, 2001, 02:24:00 AM: the current ju88a4 will never catch a b17 lanc or 26 moot point.......
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: Wilbus on September 23, 2001, 03:30:00 AM: Schräge Musik was more then just 20mm's, it could be anything, would be nice to have although JU88 might be a bit too slow for it, could dive down and go under.

ADD IT!
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: Nashwan on September 23, 2001, 06:35:00 AM: pdog, the picture Juzz posted can be found on this page http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-uf.html (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-uf.html)
It lists several WW1 examples of upward firing guns, and many inter war experiments.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: Wotan on September 23, 2001, 12:43:00 PM: Wilbuz you gonna stay perched waiting for a buff to happen by....... :)

no one will most react to buffs once they are ib. That being the case a ju88 won't get to it even at 10-15k........... :)

I'm all for it I just dont think it will have any effect in the game. Chances are by the the time you work your way up some fighter will have beat you to it.

Even if you do more then likely you will be killed by the buff. ....... :)

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: DingHao2 on September 23, 2001, 01:14:00 PM: The 'Gecko' (japanese night fighter) had 2 oblique firing 20mm cannons. Go do a search on it at a warbirds site.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: SKurj on September 23, 2001, 02:15:00 PM: Fw190, and Bf110 used gun systems like this at some point no?

SKurj
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: pdog_109 on September 23, 2001, 02:33:00 PM: the bf110 yes, but not the 190.
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: juzz on September 23, 2001, 09:00:00 PM: Oops - the pic I linked to is on a geocities site. :(
Title: Shrage Musik!
Post by: SKurj on September 23, 2001, 09:20:00 PM: I have pics of a 190 with an upward firing gun system, perhaps it was only a test.

SKurj