Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yeager on July 10, 2002, 01:07:42 PM
-
I love early war planes....Zekes, Wildcats, anything from 39-42.
Ive tried flying these new planes in the freedom of the MA but I am consistently being harrassed by Spit9s, LA7s, 51Ds, N1Ks etc etc that DO NOT WANT TO FIGHT....but rahter zoomboom and run away (and yeah, the new terrain is presenting some difficulites).
Now is as good a time as any to start utilizing meaningfull perk assesements on late war super dupers.
Either that or get a good RPS going.
Thanks
-
By all means, open a second MA using normal-size maps, reduce max players in both MA's to around 275, and have one normal MA and one RPS MA.
I would never fly in an arena with an RPS, but the guys who want one should have their fun too.
J_A_B
-
Probably wouldn't work by reducing the arena numbers. About that thime you'd find the majority trying to get into the one and locking uot players / squads from playing. I think it would end up another underused arena like the CT. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Best guage to check would be to see what planes get the most usage, the older ones or newer rides. Last consideration would be the presence of perk planes. Would they be allowed in both arenas?
-
I'd be happy to see an added stat under scores, a ratio of perks given vs perks earned(Ignoring the sortie end multipliers) It would have no affect on rank, or anything other than to sort of show what kind of planes that person fights in and against. So a 10 eny plane killing a 40 eny plane would have a ratio of .25, while the reverse would be 4.0.
-
Amen Yeager! :)
-
in what way are perks or a perk system useful in the slightest degree to an early war plane aficianado?
lazs
-
Perk system makes fair sense to me. More sense that dividing up the MA with terrain eras. Honestly, RPS makes the most sense to me.
I look at the number of 262s and F4U4s Im bothered with as proof that perks generally work. They just have to be implimented smartly. With the numbers of early war rides now avaliable, Pyro had better get with the meaningful perks, to at least see if it will work, or move on to RPS. The early war rides deserve to be promoted in the game.
-
yeager... I don't think you get my point. How would any perk system be of any use to an early war plane aficianado. I have over 5 thousand perk points... How will my perk points make flying an early war plane any more enjoyable or prevent me from having every fight ruined by late war rides?
lazs
-
Perks are no more use to me than you Lazs, however, I believe that giving people incentive to fly them will mean that possibly more early war planes will be in the arena.... for us to fight.
They get uber perk points for shooting down late war monsters, we get early war planes to dogfight.
Win/win.
-SW
-
not enough planes for an rps to make it very good.
The spit 9 is the most popular plane in the arena. It has the lowest eny and is a slow mid war plane. Its not good enough to be perked. Perking anything else ensures more spits. Upping the eny value of early war planes has done nothing to attract more folks to them.
A split arena would suk folks would migrate to the 1 with the most numbers. Folks who really like a certain plane or arena setting may be barred from flying because they logged on late and their arena is full.
A small area within the huge 512 x 512 map impacts no one.
Its a good suggestion.
-
SW... the point is.... early war aficianados will have no use for perk points since their planes are free anyway but if you have a perk system then you will be assured of ALLWAYS haveing late war planes availavble to ruin your enjoyment of early planes. Seeing more early war planes does nothing for early war fans if they still run into late war monsters..
lazs
-
There's always going to be late war monsters, even with the area idea... unless you seperate the different eras by those gigantic walls you were talking about.
Then it's like 3 different wars going on at the same time.. mine as well make 9 different countries, each a different color, 3 in each area with early, mid and late war planes.
But then how do you decide when the map resets? Every 3 days? Every time one of the areas resets?
What happens when no one wants to play in the early war arena? You won't be happy.
What happens when no one plays in the mid war area? Someone else won't be happy.
What happens when no one plays in the late war area? More people won't be happy.
What's the best way to keep everyone happy? Give added incentive for early war rides, while at the same time keeping late war rides for those that need... err want to fly 'em...
-SW
-
perk system works IMO but it needs improvement.
I think the idea of resetting perks each tour has some merrit.
At least that would get rid of the perk monsters (players with tons of perkies).
RPS is great except it forces players to fly certain planes at certain times.
Incorporating Strat into the deal makes more sense IMO.
we'd need something like this:
perk factories to bomb (factories that build perk planes)
once they were hit no more perk planes for that country until rebuilt. More work for buffs that way too. (and for intercepting those buffs!)
maybe start each tour with a set number of perkies for each player.
just ideas, nothing concrete yet
-
It won't work Yeager. Period.
There is always going to be a "fastest" plane that will BnZ the turnfighters and "refuse to fight".
If you make everything past 1942 a perk, you don't change the tactics in the arena, you just change which icons you see.
In this case (depending on when in 1942 to early 1943 you choose) you just see 190A5's, F4U-1's, or even the P-40.
Your only solution is a RPS, and even that won't work because still there is a "Fastest" plane. And a RPS would drive a large part of the population away from the game.
I suggest the CT
-
While they are at it , make it so you can give some perk points to your squad/flying mates. I have a ton of them and very seldom use them, the only time I ever use any at all, is if someone I am flying with wants to up in a perk plane then I will go with them. I have a lot of friends that would like to fly the perk planes but don't have the perks and I could give them what they need if implemented.
-
The perk system does work - Yeager and I proved that during one of the Combat Theatre rotations. A couple of perks were EASY to earn in the early model planes.
Late war models were a coupla perkies each, D9 , 51D and the Spit IX was 2 or 3 each - it all balanced out.
And not only that, I felt the game was a lot more fun. If you want to fly the superior model of your favorite plane, you gotta earn your ride. Yeager has hit the nail right on the head. The perk system needs to be USED properly.
Besides, it seperates the men from the boys... :D
-
agreed, wish HTC would take a chance and run a trial in the MA.
-
Originally posted by Innominate
It would have no affect on rank, or anything other than to sort of show what kind of planes that person fights in and against. .
WE already have this in stats
-
I find it funny when people refer to the spit 9 we have as a latewar plane.:D The spit9 we have is a '42 plane no?
-
Bad idea, IMO.
-
i didnt read all the posts in this thread but here is an idea.....
with the size of the new terrains put the late war rides in the rear fields. and then put the mid war and early rides in the front bases. keep the perks the way they are too. make the price for the new rides perks and time. ( the deeper ya get into the enemy
country the newer the planes get.)
and set the strat up to knock out or limit (factories)the newer rides as well. ( until resupplied by someone no rebuild time)
make the target a factory just out side the capitol or something.
this way people can fly the new stuff for the price of time and perks. and the early war stuff has a chance at the front.
and if ya take that shiney new 51-D 4 or 5 sectors you would want to hang on to it so you would tend to fly it smarter.
just an idea. i have many they arent too good but they are idea's :)
-
concentric circles...
early rides to the center, late war monsters to the outside
the late war monsters can fight along the fringes still as the fronts in the pizza map for example would place late war enemy fields close to each other
The only drawback would be if a country has lost its early war only zone, but that wouldn't deny them the planes as the EW rides could be found at all fields
SKurj
-
Or what we could do is....
Since our current MA map is 4 old terrains put together...We could have 1 Old MA map Space for Early war rides, 1 Old MA map space for mid war rides, and 1 old map space for Late war rides. and the last 1/4 of a map for all planes. Now of course there will be people, "If you do this I am going to leave!!!!", (mainly b/c of rank reasons), but I'd say give this a try. Nothing perm. just a 1-2 week trial, and see how it works out.
-Edit- Spelling
-
i do agree that we could have an idea areana where we could test these idea. and if the majority of us like it we could implement the new ideas.
-
RPS was one of the primary reasons I left Warbirds in the first place.
(I editted out rest of this post before sending)
-
Lazs,
It is my hope and belief that giving a fair and perk value to the later models would serve a purpose of "osmosis" (sp) where as the effect of perks would more fairly promote usage of early rides and govern a more conservative use of later rides. Not so restrictive as a rps but more restrictive than the current "free love" use (excepting the already fairly perked rides like the 262, F4U4).
Your idea is as valid as any I just dont see any clear cut advantage because there exists a clear way to take advantage of a seperation by simple distance. It would probably work but since the perks have been conceived and implimented why not at least make the honest effort to get on the ball and give the perk system the opportunity to work.
My personal preference is for the rps. I loved it in WBs but I dont think the perk system has been truly implimented yet. Hence my call for Pyro to get on it. Perhaps your idea will be tried in some form at some point and thats fine. Lets get the perk system up and running and see what the effect is before pursuing something that isnt yet past the idea phase.
Im really liking the F4F, A6m2 and other new additions but it really is tricky trying to bring them to bear against the LA7s, P51Ds and other various and asundry late war rides.
Lets try a fully implimented perk system and see what it does.
-
Originally posted by SKurj
concentric circles...
early rides to the center, late war monsters to the outside
And Lucifer right in the middle chewing up anybody who gets too close!
-
I see a BIG advantage to Lazs system compared to yours Yeager. Lazs' system wouldn't cause me to quit AH.
Not sure how well Lazs area system would work, but wouldn't mind trying it since it wouldn't be any worse than the MA we have now.
OTOH, I'd be perfectly happy with an RPS if it was available in a separate arena because then it wouldn't be runing the game for me. Contrary to the fears of some here, separate arenas can and have worked in the past and would work fine in AH too. The issue of "one arena being full" would sort itself out over time as the two MA's develpoed their own following.
J_A_B
-
Aren't you flying in the CT, Yeager? It's just the planes you love, unhindered by BnZ'ing late war monsters. Last night
there was 30 or 40 flying there - plenty for constant furballs between near-set opposing fields.
-
You don't want to go down this road, it doesn't work.
But I think the powers that be know that all ready :)
-
It would probably work verm. I think it is going to happen or else Pyro would not have gone through the trouble to invent the perk system. Why do you suppose he invented the RPS in WBs? For fun? Why do you suppose that he went to the trouble to conceive the Perk system? Easy answer: inequity, imbalance....
Yes, early period has its superior plane just as mid and late periods do. Thats why the RPS was such a classy idea in WBs.
I recognize that no matter what anyone does to "solve the problem of inequity, imbalance in the planeset" there will always be those who dislike whatever method used to aleviate it and quit with uproarious banter. What seems more important, and in the long run, more profitable for the game (in my opinion) is a system of fair and balanced regulation. Perks used to their full potentiol will likely serve this function. Still, I would be pleased with an RPS and in desperation, the idea of distance being used to seperate the planeset but my gut feel on that is that idea would serve as a last resort. Still......others have chimed in with good ideas. Been a good read.
If in the end we end up simply with what we now have then AH will have shortchanged itself. Im just hopefull that something is worked out because the current setup is largely inadaquate for the full spectrum of machines now avaliable (262, F4U4, Spit14 notwithstanding).
Fork has it right BTW. I remember that CT setup with all planes enabled and later rides reasonably perked. Was pure heaven for about a week, then it changed.
Oboe, I go through phases. I would like to have all my phases occur in the same arena but I do understand where you late war guys are coming from. You see, Im a late war dweeb as well as a mid war and early war dweeb. Im probably a freek as well.
If things stay the way they are I will probably morph into a two arena creature provided the CT concentrates on becoming an early war arena. Otherwise, what a waste of good machines :)
-
here's my 2 cents:
what's wrong with the way things are now? sure, the early war planes are getting killed ez by the late war ones, but isn't that the risk you take when flying an early war plane? i mean, come on, honestly...it's like flying from a capped field, there is a good chance u'll get shot down and that's YOUR CHOICE. and it's not like all early war rides suck, because they don't. they're new planes, and if you work on it and gain enough experience, you'll be fine. many of the early war planes are meaneuverable enough you hadn't ought to have trouble in a dogfight, and if you're getting b&z'ed: move to a different field. it's all choice and IMO adding a new arena won't help. the same thing will happen. ppl who haven't mastered the art of the dogfight will b&z just like before. i hate to embarass myself, but i get shot down by early war planes a lot, and i fly a g-10! it's not a question of technical superiority if you have the know-how and talent to fly an inferior plane and win! be cautious and whatch ur six...if you turn tight enough at the right moment b&z is not a problem to avoid.
if we HAVE TO, we could use low numbers to perk hotter airplanes, but of course, this cuts the variety down and can almost elimate the thrill of getting a niki in an F4F! or a spit14 in a 109e-4! flying early model planes should be a way to challenge yourself, not an excuse to whine!
-
Nothing's wrong with the current system 4343....there's just a small but vocal crowd of malcontents who seek remove any fun from AH by forcing an unwanted system down everybody's throat like it or not.
Then there's a few others who recognize the fact that the guys who like certain particular airplanes will never really agree with the RPS guys, and try to come up with solutions inclusive to both sides of the issue.
J_A_B
-
yeager and others are stilll missing the point... early war guys don't want to fly em just to get more "perks"... They want to fly em because they are fun to fly. early war guys don't want to be harrased by late war planes no matter what the reason..
The perk system was cobbled up when there were no early war planes to speak of and it was a bandaid to allow for a few ultra late uber pl;anes to be flown in the arena. We have out grown it.
In the CT... the perk idea was used to get everyone into lthe latest war rides as quicklyu as possible. That is not thje goal of the MA fan who also likes early war planes.
I like early war planes but realiize that I am in the minority. sooo.... I came up with a sytem that alowed guys of my ilk to fly early war planes against other early war planes and still not have any effect... not force... anyone to fly them or restrict anyone in any way. The area arena would have no effect on people who don't care about early war planes. It would be an enormous help for those who do.
lazs
-
Im starting to warm to the idea lazs. Its just about worthless to grab a P40B or F4F and have any consistent fun in them.
Ive always thought charging more for late era planes would simply reduce their numbers but I realize that the way HTC has set things from the get go (ie starting with 1945 and going backwards, kinda dumb really) would cause almost unbearble pain and suffering to the high end dweebs.
-
Yeager,
I disagree with your comment regarding the choice to start with the end of the war and go backwards.
I expect that most people would like to fly the most famous aircraft.
Therefore, the P-51D Mustang must be in the sim from the start.
Therefore, you have to start at the end and work backwards.
Other aircraft developement choices come naturally once the P-51D is set as a base point.... ie You need a good 109, a tough Zero (5c), a late mark Spitfire.
When HTC started from scratch, how else were they to market a brand new online sim?
"Hi guys... come fly AH... you can fly a Spitfire Mark I and a P40B"
"P40B. What? Where is my Mustang?"
The thing that impresses me most about AH is that after multiple years of developement, it is 'filling out' and the 'gaps' are being closed at the same time as new features are added.
I'm getting ready for my first 262 flight. I earnt the perks by flying early war aircraft and winning. It is my skill level that allows this... not the aircraft. The Maccie 202 and F4U birdcage are deadly in my hands.
Variety is the spice of AH.
-
brendo... i think HTC did the smart thing by making a mid/late war set first. I think they have outgrown the need for that now with such a large player base and the addidtion of so many new planes since then... and I think that it is time that some sim co. came up with a really new way to integrate the "famous" early war planes with the "famous" late war planes in the same community/arena.
many of us have 5,000 or more "perk" points and couldn't care less about using em. I am a mediocre pilot but could fly a perk plane forever I believe. I don't like em... I don't like flying against em and I don't care to fly em. The "perk" system was a bandaid to keep em rare.... It worked foir the times but the times have changed.
Spit ones and F4f's and mig 1 and p40's and all the other great early war planes are waiting for a chance to be flown.. A lot of guyus want to fly em but not aginst pee 51's and 262's or even.... F4u-1's.
I don't want to kill anyones choice or force anyone to do anything. My idea is all about choice. You can fly anything you want in the arena anytime you want. With such a large map, no ones resources are even lessened to any extent.. Everyone agrees the map is too big... an early war area would take up very little of the map and the remaining portion would still be bigger than previous maps were. Seperate resets would make it so that gameplay or (cough) "strat" was unaffected.
lazs
-
First of all let me state that I have never flown in any other game heck I didn't even know these games existed until late august of last year.
That being said let me say this, I have read, every post on the bulletin board and every thing I can find anywhere else on the net since I found out about this game and from what I have read, which are comments about the other games I have concluded that this is the best of all of them. Everybody thinks the graphics are supperior, the fm is superior, the price is superior, and on and on and on.
Now why would HTC even consider changing what is working just to satisfy a very small contingent who want RPS so that the early war planes wont have to see the late war planes.
I personally am getting a little tired of some people constantly wanting to change ACES HIGH to some other game.
IF YOU DONT LIKE ACES HIGH then write your on game with the features you want otherwise play ACES HIGH the way HTC writes it.
OK now as per usual LET THE FLAMING BEGIN.
-
aac... a small early war area in the map would not change the FM or the graphics or the price. It would in fact, do nothing except add choice and make early war planes viable without penalizing anyone. win win.
lazs
-
I see....I'ma "dweeb" because I like the Mustang and don't want to be forced into a 109E or some other pile of crap. Everyone's entitled to their opinions/delusions I guess.
Personally, I think people who call anyone with a different opinion a "dweeb" are the TRUE dweebs.
J_A_B
-
jab?? fly anything you like. the area arena would not force you to fly any particular plane. You could ignore the early war area and no one would care. It would not affect you in any way. The only restriction you would have is that if you wanted to fly a late war plane like the mustang... you would not be able to fly it in the small early war area. You would however, have the choice of taking of from the hundreds of remaining fields. "your" portion of the map would still be bigger than any previous map and probly too big for most peoples taste in any case.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Yeager
Its just about worthless to grab a P40B or F4F and have any consistent fun in them.
And therein lies the problem.
People just don't see it as a problem because it's been growing slowly and they haven't known the game any other way. The P40 and F4F were major players for the US in the beginning months of the war. To some people in this thread the idea of flying their Pony-D, 109G10, and LA-7 unrestricted is a God-given right. "Now just shut up and let them boom and zoom the snot out of your 1941 zeke" (a very feared plane right after Pearl Harbor, but only good for base defense in Aces High). "Just don't restrict my plane!" ;)
That's a pretty single-minded attitude to have.
If the late war rides were lightly perked, like say 3 points for a P51D, LA-7, 109G10, and N1K. These planes would still be easily obtainable in 1-4 sorties. Once you are riding in these planes and earn 3-6 more perks, you can afford to die a few times or save for something better like a Ta152 or F4U4 (which should have their perk lowered IMHO). There's not that much to it. With the late war rides very lightly perked the arena is more friendly to the early war rides.
What's the big deal?
-
Originally posted by hblair
What's the big deal?
How is someone who cant get a kill in anything but a p-51d supposed to earn the three perks?!?! :P
I do completely agree that all of the late war planes should be 1-5perks. Thats low enough that it's not hard to earn the perks you spent on the plane in one sortie, but high enough that you wont suicide in it.
IMO, the big problem with the perk system, is that everyone has hundreds or thousands of perks, without anything worth using them for, besides the odd 262 sortie. The gangbang tags make dogfighting in them pointless, jabo in a plane like the f4u4 is even more so. Lets make ALL of the perk planes worth using on a regular basis.
-
laz.. your idea would probably get wings if you'd back off a bit.. :)
good idea.. too much delivery IMO
-
Lazs...my comment wasn't directed at you; you're one of the guys who I respect as trying to be inclusive of different types of play.
J_A_B
-
Hblair the big deal is I pay my $15 dollars like you do and I only get to play a very limited time so when I'm on I want to fly my 51D without having to fly a plane I don't like in my limited time. I think Laz2's idea is a great way to accomadate the early war plane crowd without infringing on the late war flyers.
DES
-
hblair... if you make late war planes a small perk point "prize" that is "earned" .... it won't help so far as giving the early war guys any parity and.... guys even as mediocre as me will be in perk planes if we want to every single day picking on even easier targets. I could fly a perk plane for an entire tour and still have thousands of perks left right now... with your idea I could fly one all tour and gain perks. With my idea everyone starts out the same and stays the same except for skill level. There would need to be no perk points eventually.
wlfgang... I have no interest in your opinion. Not so far anyway.
lazs
-
Originally posted by DES
Hblair the big deal is I pay my $15 dollars like you do and I only get to play a very limited time so when I'm on I want to fly my 51D without having to fly a plane I don't like in my limited time. I think Laz2's idea is a great way to accomadate the early war plane crowd without infringing on the late war flyers.
DES
I could apply the same argument to the me262, or any of the perk planes.
-
And I would agree indom... A place, a little corner, for the 262 to fly unperked would not be a bad thing. maybe a meteor too. You just couldn't take off from say, the mid or early war area.
lazs
-
"I could apply the same argument to the me262, or any of the perk planes."
No you can't, because they weren't ever in AH unperked. The Tempest, 262, etc, have always been perked "special" airplanes and never were "common use" planes. The ONE perk plane for which this argument works if the F4U-1C....and believe me, I sympathice with those C-hog pilots who had their ride "stolen" because of a vocal crowd of whiners.
There is a BIG difference between adding something "special" to a game, and taking away a long-time feature.
A separate, new MA with an RPS might work. Lazs' area for early rides might work. A new amd improved CT might work. What will NOT work is removing many of the "foundation" airplanes of AH from everyday use.
J_A_B