Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Packy on July 10, 2002, 08:00:26 PM
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Combat.sim did an article gushing about Warbirds III. Has anyone tried this online sim? What is your opinion of Warbirds?
just curious to know....
HT, you should see about getting publicity at various sim sites with the new 1.10 upgrade!
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"MushBirds" and "BlindBirds" describes it for me.
The flight feels very, very musshy and it seems as if there are huge gaps in the visual coverage out of the cockpit. It also limits the zoom so that you are flying while legally blind.
Oh yeah, cockpit graphics are about the most hideous thing you can imagine. AH cockpit graphics my not be realistic 3D models of the interiors of these aircraft, but at least they aren't a blurry mess.
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Warbirds is an unfinished buggy product (it used to be the most popular online flight sim (when HT and Pyro were there)).
Read the message boards there and see for yourself that Warbirds is just a shadow of its former self (oh glorious past where as thou gone!).
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Originally posted by Packy
Combat.sim did an article gushing about Warbirds III. Has anyone tried this online sim? What is your opinion of Warbirds?
just curious to know....
HT, you should see about getting publicity at various sim sites with the new 1.10 upgrade!
I did an Article for Combatsim for ver 1.09.
My ver1.10 should be ready for them by friday - If work does not keep interupting !
Mike "DmdJordi" Bowman
Sceanrio CM Staff
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My experience with WB3 wasn't a good one, though it does have some cool features, but not many.. 9 out of 10 flights I would get HO'd in the first few minutes of flight.. , Ground targets were very hard for me to see and adjust too, no matter what res. I would set it too. The maps were boring and the airfield numbering system ackward.. The ack was deadly beyond reality.
I would sit down and login and log back out within 3 minutes, because I just felt it was a waste of time, to much effert for very little reward if any.. my other impression was that after the WW2online fiasco, and knowing that some of the developers from WB's helped with the WW2 flight model, those 2fps I would get made more sense after playing both sims...And the GV's in WB3 were pathetic.. I am a very patient person most of the time but some times free time is limited.. I can't be spending time and money on a MMOG that doesn't deliver much as far as fun.. kinda like Air warrior full reality... should have been renamed the retiree
mode..
So IMHO try the free trial period if you want cause its free but dont plan on spending more than 2 hours there!!!
T0J0
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I dont like the flight model that feels just like grandmas old fassion pudding with a stick in it. I think the AH model is a tad to resposive at very low speeds, but the WB model is way WAY WAY WAY too mushy.
The real game killer for me however was the feeling of having almost no SA. I couldnt tell what the hell I was shooting at, if there was something on the ground I have to scrape my belly on dirt to see it, and I overall just felt like I needed a 52" monitor cause I couldnt see crap.
Every once in a while I wander over to use a WB free weekend thingy, and I have yet to find anything that would make me leave AH (not even close).
Overall, Ive been happy with AH since the beta.
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Pro's
- Plane skins are awsome...really, nothing comes close
- The S3
- The sky, VERY well done
- "some" of the cockpit art, 190 for example is very good
- AH needs "alittle" mush, just alittle, WB is overboard
And beside that..
I'm really sorry to say after 5 years over there, nothing else..
Except the pilots, but that's not we're talking about.
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HEY TAKE IT TO THE OFF TOPIC Forum would ya
SKurj
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Wow.
SK there's no reason to shout.
The gentlemen asked a question and some people have been kind enough to answer. No harm, no foul, looks pretty good from HT's end :) As it always will.
No reason to break out the board police. If it's not too much trouble could I see your official 6 foot stick with the STOP sign attached at a 45 degree angle so when presented your right arm is parallel to the ground ??
Oh and I see you have a bit of pizza on your collar.
;)
Politeness is a good thing :)
nopoop
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Originally posted by Packy
Combat.sim did an article gushing about Warbirds III. Has anyone tried this online sim? What is your opinion of Warbirds?
just curious to know....
HT, you should see about getting publicity at various sim sites with the new 1.10 upgrade!
My opinion? Ask this question in the O' Club.
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Sandman
That works.
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IMO, WBIII is nowhere. And I am quite sad about it, it was my first online sim.
good things:
cool plane graphics
gunnery in more historical limits than AH
plane skins
bad things:
FM - planes fly in jelly, not air
no advanced options like strat, voice, tracer configuration etc etc.
no separate fuel tanks
missing loadout options
no clouds, only fog layers
cockpits need work
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I have never played it, but I am 101% sure that it is a horrible game that in no way compares to Aces High, and will suffer a horrible demise. Just like it happened to IL-2 Sturmovik!
HitechCreations OWNS the flightsim genre! and if you dont agree, AKDejaVu will quote every one of your paragraphs with witty brutal remarks until you die of shame!
OK? ok.
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It's pretty good.Better than Fighter Ace.Mushy in resposnsivness and hardly anyone online.Way overpriced.
The best WW2 sim is still EAW..oops..err..I mean Aces high!
:D
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no, it is Il-2
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Poopster Fighter Ace 3 plane skin look awesome too :D
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Originally posted by T0J0
My experience with WB3 wasn't a good one, though it does have some cool features, but not many.. 9 out of 10 flights I would get HO'd in the first few minutes of flight.. , Ground targets were very hard for me to see and adjust too, no matter what res. I would set it too. The maps were boring and the airfield numbering system ackward.. The ack was deadly beyond reality.
T0J0
Hehe, I had to read that twice as I wasn't sure if you were talking about AH or WB's. That statement really could apply to both :).
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Big difference between WB3 and AH is...
My computer can't run WB3.
When S3's switched from 2.77 to WBIII, I had to give my money to Hitech. My P2-400 does fine in AH
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There's little quirks that WB players don't like about AH, and visa versa.
Best thing to do is DL it and fly both for a month online, then decide what you like the best.
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after AW tanked, i spent a few weeks at WB. FM seemed ok to this former RR flyer, graphics were awesome, customer support was responsive to my questions. but there was only like 10 people flying whenever i logged on.
so some marketing genius over there must have thought a good way to attract new customers was to raise prices!
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Is it just me, or when you read the title of this topic, did you also hear the whistle of bombs dropping? :p
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY
Is it just me, or when you read the title of this topic, did you also hear the whistle of bombs dropping? :p
LOL! You should let MG post on this BBS again just to liven things up :D
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8169
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY
Is it just me, or when you read the title of this topic, did you also hear the whistle of bombs dropping? :p
Actually, it was a three formation of Lancasters dropping 3-4000lb bombs then dumping their remaining 27000lbs of irons.
What can you really say when our Training Arena has more players than their main? I think it falls short on a lot of important gameplay elements that AH seems to do right.
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Originally posted by Hristo
no, it is Il-2
In your opinion....would offer up that the several thousand subscribers here might have differing opinions as well, ya think?
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Packy, heres an analysis of WBIII by none other than the users themselves:
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8141
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superfly... it was the scent of smoke in the wind and visions of ling lines of 'refugees' .. oh wait.. short lines of refugees
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OK: Combatsim sucks cause you need to pay to read their articles :p
Warbirds III sucks cause most textures dons't show up on my computer.
AH rules!
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It's got some nice features, but not as many as AH.
For me the big problems are the same ones that drove me out of WB2 in the first place - artificially mushy flight model and dumbed down gunnery. They have improved the gunnery but the mush remains.
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From what I've read both SimHQ and Combatsim get money from iEN if they get signup's from advertising the free weekends at both sites.
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I hear a lot of comments about "mush" here. As a former Warbirds pilot, yes, the controls did get a lot mushier with the addition of stick forces to the flight model. In other words, it will take 1-3 seconds to go from full aileron deflection one way to the other at 300mph or so. Is this accounted for in AH?
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ik come borrow my computer :D There is a built in lag in control response in WBIII. In other words, a four point roll is very difficult because when you center the stick to stop the roll, the plane continues to roll....not just alittle. With any movement of the stick there is a lag or "mush" time before the plane reacts to stick imput. Every plane feels like a B17 to a certain extent ( bad analogy )
While a small amount of "mush" actually takes the feeling away of "flying on rails" which would be a good addition here, the amount added there was waaaaay overboard.
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I watch all manner of AC fly around the pattern at the AFB's I have been assigned too over the years. when an F-15 rolls 90 degrees, the AC rolls extremely fast to that point and stops when the pilot relaxes the stick. T-34's, F-16's, all the same. I dont see alot of inertia that the keeps the AC rolling like WB's does. The rol direction of the AC is controlled by the ron's completely in those AC. I can only believe that most WW2 fighters behaved the same way.
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It's all that with no bag of chips.
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Originally posted by -ammo-
I watch all manner of AC fly around the pattern at the AFB's I have been assigned too over the years. when an F-15 rolls 90 degrees, the AC rolls extremely fast to that point and stops when the pilot relaxes the stick. T-34's, F-16's, all the same. I dont see alot of inertia that the keeps the AC rolling like WB's does. The rol direction of the AC is controlled by the ron's completely in those AC. I can only believe that most WW2 fighters behaved the same way.
Just have to ask, how do you know from ground when the pilot relaxed stick? :)
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lol ammo, I didn't know they had fbw control systems in ww2 aircraft, let alone hydraulic assistance.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Packy, heres an analysis of WBIII by none other than the users themselves:
http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8141
Ripsnort,
Thanks for the link! It has some good info from the actual users of WBIII.
btw..this is a general discussion about AH; I'm curious to get opinions from AH players regarding other online sims...so chill, whiners, and go get that guy who posted the thread about his baby being born in this general discussion forum! lol
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Originally posted by Animal
I have never played it, but I am 101% sure that it is a horrible game that in no way compares to Aces High, and will suffer a horrible demise. Just like it happened to IL-2 Sturmovik!
Spoken like a typical whiner.HitechCreations OWNS the flightsim genre!
You are 100% correct and if you dont agree, AKDejaVu will quote every one of your paragraphs with witty brutal remarks until you die of shame!
OK? ok.
Damn straight you pathetic little papa's boy.
AKDejaVu
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Always wanted to try WBIII but cant be F**KED to download 130 Meg on a 56k dialup, And after reading this thread I definatly wont bother;)
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and don't...it will be a week until another 50 MB patch is out. That game is in sad condition - only the graphics stand out.
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Originally posted by -ik-
lol ammo, I didn't know they had fbw control systems in ww2 aircraft, let alone hydraulic assistance.
Well of coarse not. But I don't think that the inertia of a roll in realtime is nearly as exagerated as it was when I flew in WB's.
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Its free 3 day weekend to fly warbirds 3 if you all want to try it and see for yourselves.
I myself find the planes mushy , and dont seam to have as much in motion feel as AH does.
Some of the grafics are better in places but worse in others .
As for terrain grafics ... AH can have the very best if they want to (i have over 150 terrains made by the likes of Nuttz, Pokie,HtHide, ect..) some of there stuff is unbelivable .
But they arnt using this quality in the main arena because they cause more of a hit on your frame rates !!!
>>insert frame rate whine here >>>
I myself will stay here and continue adding to HTC's allowance :D
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Nice graphics, I like very much all those dedicated skins, good offline training against drones .... well, I must admit ... WB3's offline drones are better than our human Rooks :D
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WB3's offline drones are better than our human Rooks
They certainly put up a better fight! :D
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went online warbirds last nite. In the Main there were a whopping 45 peeps. FM crafts respond slower to stick input. Cockpit art is very good, aircraft art good, clouds......dunno if I can call them that, more fog then cloud. Terrain from alt when weather is clear appears hazed. Dar is different which means one has to search and watch text buffer for fights. And RPS. Don't really apppreciate that at all.
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Generally the cockpits are very nice although better ones have come from the community itself as has skins. The stock ones can be awful sometimes such as the Spit's with their purple roundels :rolleyes: The models are nice and have more poly's than AH it seems but then their tech is newer than AH and needs a higher spec system to run it. The terrain while having nice undulations the textures used look awful and the BoB map they use currently is often referred to as the green jello map (although the current AH pizza map is not to my liking either) The cloud is rediculous, it's just a blanket with holes in every now and then and bombers have to stay below 10K which makes them easy meat for fighters. One thing I really like there is the WW2A arena with it's Axis vs Allies setup and an RPS which is fun but unfortunately numbers in the arena's there are so low they have resorted to upping whole formations of AI planes to try and make it fun in there.
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Update! LOL after trying WB for the second time in about 4 years I canceled my account. Maybe just takes getting used to but the gameplay IMHO is much better in Aces High. I dont like RPS unfortunately and the numbers are quite low. The people however are helpful and seem cordial. Cockpit art is great in WBIII, however as I stated before the stick input seems to be exagerated low. There are some features I like, such as paying a penalty for flying throttle to the firewall, and LW craft cockpits in metric. But.....IMHO Aces HIgh wayyyyyy ahead.
Hajo
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Packy,
My oppion about about WarbirdsIII is simple.
(1) If it were better then Aces High... we wouldn't all be in here posting all the time.
(2) People migrate to where they like to spend there time.
(3) Seems like they have made there choice for Ace High!
Thunder
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Forgot to mention every plane rolls like a 747. Some said it was this new 'stickforce' thing but I seem to remember a long time ago it also being mentioned that this new mush stopped the micro warps and a lot of trainers were upset about it...odd they were so upset if it was suppossed to model real life stickforce?
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OK Mullets! Let's not let emotions get ahead of intellect :D
Here's one of the thoughts I've read, "I have never played it but am 101% sure it's a horrible game"
I'm a consumer and want to be sure I get the best for my buck. WarBirds or Aces High or FA3 or whatever. I own no stock in these companies and I'm not going to let emotional issues cloud my judgement. Here's what I've read here and what I've experienced since I took out a WB sub about 2 months ago after 2 years in AH. I've been flying both intently for those 2 months because I found something incredible after I started WB, my AH stick settings were totally skewed. For some damn reason I had created settings that were totally messing up my control of the aircraft and this led to a misinformed opinion on my part that AH's aircraft weren't flying true to real life flight physics. Since I corrected my screw up, I've been doing much better and have thus decided to go broke by paying for both at the same time.
First, for what it's worth my background; 2 years FA1, FA2, 2 years AH and in RL a commercial pilot's license with CFI, Instrument ratings and somewhere between 3 and 4 thousand hours of flight time as PIC. It is from this experience that I draw to determine what I like and don't like about each of these flight sims.
Mushy Controls in WB; Don't disagree with this. They could use a little tightning e.g. when one enters a dive in real life the flow of air over the control surfaces should make them harder to deflect. WB's model is mushy but in return it gives you better audible clues of what's happening e.g. when you enter a dive with full power the engines tend to over-rev, wind sound increases etc. WB's seems to have a better model of engine performance IMHO. On the other hand my favorite WB ride the P38 will commence compression way too fast in AH.
Graphics and Views: Sorry, but again IMHO WB graphics are way more realistic than AH's at least while the aircraft are in flight. Somebody mentioned the sky. True no cumulous clouds only stratus layers but when I find myself in the air in WB it's almost like really being in what I perceive to be a fast WW2 fighter. Horizon looks perfect, aircraft appear to move and converge exactly like real world aircraft move and converge. Very, very little lag (this totally pissed me off in AH). Things are smooth as silk at least 90% of the time. When I get on somebody's six in WB, they're dead meat. I have enough visual clues to be able to control speed, angle of attack etc. in order to stay where I should be and at least in the WB P38 speed is controllable by advancing and retarding the throttle and dive brakes very effectively. Zoom comes in 3 flavors 90 degrees (45 degrees each side of center), 75 degrees and I believe about 35 degrees for close in dispatching). I have no problem with this. AH of course give you various pre-set (F10) views and WB could use something like this.
WB and AH are both works in progress and at this time AH is superior in the following generalities; strategy, ease of use e.g. point and click vs. many of the dot commands which have actually to be typed in at WB. Amazingly as somebody said the HTC staff were the original developers of WB and it seems like somebody has got some amazing lawyers because the command set is almost identical. One would have to be a moron not to realize that there is difinetely a very strong family resemblance between the two sims. In fact, I find them so similar that I've been working on a database to compare each and every feature of the two and to write a detailed analysis.
Main thing I want to say is that they're both great sims and it behooves us their business base to gently goad them into fair competition by not being so blind as to condemn someting without giving it a try and recognizing that what holds true today may not hold true tomorrow. Give you an example, I love the film viewer in AH and you all know how easy it is to use. When I joined WB 2 months ago there was no film viewer. I thought what a shame. Guess what? There's been two non-compulsory updates since I joined and the build of 07/02 has a film viewer but very limited in comparison to ours. Here's what you've got to do to film your flight or portion there off; to start the film you have to type .acmrec or hit the + into the text buffer. No exactly point and click but it works. You get all the views and sounds but you can't switch to your oponents plane (at least not that I've found out so far). In return for this downside, WB gives me and as many of my squaddies as we can fit in a B17 to man different gun positions giving us a 12 O'Clock High immersion that just can't be duplicated in AH "at this time" I did this just the other night in a manned B17 which was part of a 64 ship AI bomber formation consisting of B17s and B24s It was figgin immersive and I swore I was a 19 year old kid scared crapless in the skies over Germany.
Bottom line: If you're and old dude like me with real life experience in the wild blue and a history buff to boot then you'll probably forgive some of the game play issues in WB and enjoy it more. If you enjoy the strategy of base capture then AH has a lot more to offer.
For me it's $24.95 + $14.95 and I get the best of both worlds. So what if my wife don't eat, she says she needs to lose weight anyway :D
Beeg
Rampaging Rooks of Retribution
aka "Cojudo" 475th FG "Satan's Angels" in WB
P.S. And................the most important and selfish reason from my perspective....drum roll please.......I GET KILLS!!!! 5 mins ago I dispatched 5 red devils over the parched sands of Tunisia. Same man, same flight technique based on real life flight training, P38L. In 2 years in AH I have at most had 1 streak of 4 and mostly I go 1 for 1 Granted that these 5 kills where in the Free Arena but they were all of guys who frequent the joint. There has got to be something to the coincidence eh?
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http://www.totalsims.com/welcome/
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Thanks for the link. Was able to setup a free account for the weekend and played a few hours today.
Good graphics, and now having second thoughts on the mushy controls after flying it awhile. Maybe a mix of AH and WBS would be best but I have no clue whats right. I got used to it.
Pilots sucked. I got shot down twice I think. AH planes do so much so fast with instant control, where wbs seems to cater to more bnz thought out stuff. I really liked that.
I was looking for dumbed down guns, but they tore into everything I shot. I was also used to the zoom view in AH, so I didn't like the preset stuff, but actually liked the limited views better.
The bombers graphics in wbs look way better than AH. Guns shake like hell and make good transition noise. But the new bomber formations in AH are way too cool so I guess that's ok.
I can't see how anyone could not fly both if it wasn't pinching your budget.
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Matter of fact, I do fly both and very much agree with your post. Let me add some thoughts about yours;
Good Graphics: No question and let's not forget perspective which is the way your eyes perceive the movement of aircraft within the airspace. WB has a much better look.
Mushy Controls: As you mention they need getting used to but I still think they're mushy and could use some refining by better simulating the effect of speed/wind on control surfaces.
Mix AH & WB: I think they should merge :D
Pilots sucked: Remember, you were in a free weekend vs. other mullets just like you with no WB experience. You were lucky not to go up vs. an organized squadron of vets.
AH Instant Control: This is as bad as mushy, just the other side of the spectrum. One of the things which has worked againt myself or anyone else who has real life experience is that our inner training tells us that "if you do what the dweebs do in real life, you're going to be in an wingless airplane"
Thought Out Stuff: This equates to flying just as real life WW2 pilots would. You're 100% correct WB pilots tend a hell of a lot more toward being "Re-Enactors" than "Gamers" The other night my entire squadron sat on the runway for 15 mins. waiting for all to return so we could go back up as a unit to defend a 64 plane buff formation waiting to return from a deep penetration raid. Even in the CT you would never experience that in AH. The 475th FG at least does everything as though we were flying real P38s.
Dumbded Down Guns: No way! I find the modeling of ballistics 100% accurate in WB. This includes the entire spectrum of weapons.
Views: That's right, you get used to them, no big deal.
Bomber Graphics: 100% on target! They're truly immersive. The other night they put up 64 AI bombers mixed with real life bombers on a deep penetration raid to France from the midlands of England. Afigginmazing!!!! The 38s could only escort till they went fuel critical (no 51's allowed - they stick to the history of the date of the battle which comes up when you log in). Bombers have a great gunsight system very realistic (so is our new version) No pinpoint bombing. Carpet the joint and a 64 plane bomber stream lays down one hell of a carpet. You can see the explotions and concussion rings from 25K just like our boys would have seen them over Europe. And...don't forget the best thing of all....get your entire squad into a B17 or B24 and play 12 o'clock High. We need that in AH!
Bottom line. They're both great!!! And I would love for them to steal ideas from the other for our benefit.
Beeg
Rampaging Rooks of Retribution
aka
Cojudo 475th FG "Satan's Angels"
P.S. You need to keep an open mind and try new things. I would still be in FA2 had I not initially been the first in my squad to become willing to try AH.
Originally posted by Creamo
Thanks for the link. Was able to setup a free account for the weekend and played a few hours today.
Good graphics, and now having second thoughts on the mushy controls after flying it awhile. Maybe a mix of AH and WBS would be best but I have no clue whats right. I got used to it.
Pilots sucked. I got shot down twice I think. AH planes do so much so fast with instant control, where wbs seems to cater to more bnz thought out stuff. I really liked that.
I was looking for dumbed down guns, but they tore into everything I shot. I was also used to the zoom view in AH, so I didn't like the preset stuff, but actually liked the limited views better.
The bombers graphics in wbs look way better than AH. Guns shake like hell and make good transition noise. But the new bomber formations in AH are way too cool so I guess that's ok.
I can't see how anyone could not fly both if it wasn't pinching your budget.