Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mburns on November 08, 1999, 08:09:00 AM
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Greetings,
At he recommendation of squad mates in DoA I downloaded AH and gave it a good try yesterday (Sun 11/7). I had a great deal of fun in the P-51 and was able to hold my own pretty well. I thought to myself that I could really get into this so after playing for a few hours I headed back to the website for more information. I found the monthly fee for when this sim goes pay to play and my heart sank. I can not afford to spend, or justify spending, $29.95 even for unlimited play. I just can't afford that sort of cash. For a year's play it would cost me $359.40!! Sorry Hitech Creations. You got what looks to be a great sim in the works, but with the other expenses of life that sort of money is just way to much. Now $14.94 a month unlimited play I could afford and justify and that's as high as I can resonably pay. I don't think it's fair of me to play in the free beta when I won't be playing when it goes pay so I should probably uninstall your sim tonight 8-(
Most regretably,
mburns
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Don't be too hasty, Monty. First of all, the price isn't necessarily in concrete. Secondly, even if $30 is too much, they need players to load test the server. Finally, the beta won't end for some time yet, and your situation might change.
I for one know you are a quality player, one that any sim would be fortunate to include in its ranks. Give it some more time.
BTW, you had the misfortune to find ByTor in his Nikki last night... he is pretty hot!
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Yeah, they need help debugging it. I say stay in there, and burn out on the game just as it goes pay, then hop to the next free beta on the market.
Remember too, it's $29.95 before the price wars begin. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
OTOH, if all those AH beta testers uninstalled AH and played DoA instead, we might have a nice arena after all.
Ok, all you future freeloaders, OUT of AH right now! Start shelling out $10/month to fly Brand W's WWI simulator!
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The price IS set in stone. Stop talking about a different price plan, this is IT.
I will spend that money happily. My WB bill was sometimes in the hundreds of dollars, and I think AH is far better.
RB
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Razorback-
Simple logic; no comment on the future is fact until it becomes the past. I'm not looking to open an argument on price structure, but business models do change over time. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
What you or I spend is immaterial to the argument; Monty is expressing his concern, and I'm trying to keep a friend around. Let's not turn this into a "wealthy vs. freeloader" thread (done ad nauseum elsewhere).
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Thanks for the nice compliments -kier-. I would love to stay around when it goes pay, but unless I get a nice pay raise, hit the lottery, or the price goes lower I don't see that happening. You are right though in saying that my situation may change and indeed the future is always in motion. I am not a freeloader and I have no problem in paying for a quality product, but the price has to be within a range that my budget can afford. If I cut out most of the other forms of entertainment that I pay for I could possibly afford AH, but I would have to sacrifice to many other fun things. I also do prefer WWI aviation over WWII (but just slightly) and although DoA isn't perfect it is inexpensive, affordable and fun, and I have been flying it since it started with version 0.99. After reading the replies to my initial post I may stay around for a bit and see what happens. The least I can do since it is free is to let the folks at Hitech Creations know what bugs I encounter and to make suggestions on the interface. Then at least I won't feel like a freeloader.
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Col. mburns
XO and Ops Officer
94th Aero Pursuit Sqdrn
1st Pursuit Group
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Maybe if we're persistent enough we can get a "Dawn of Aces High" WW1 arena. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Not trying to be whiny about the whole price deal, but I pay $19.95 a month for internet services. I have a few other online games, none of which has a monthly price that exceeds $10 a month. I just can't justify paying a monthly rate for a game that exceeds the rate i pay to just get on the internet. But if the price were to be $29.95 a month i would probably pay anyways because AH is a VERY schweet game!
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Zephler
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Guys what are you whining about? I am living in Germany and if I want to play online i have to pay an average of 70 cents / hour telephone fee + 15$ ISP + 30$ (in future) + access fee + 25$ basic fee for my ISDN.
Approximately I pay 175$ / month for my online fun (including researches and brand W). You are lucky living in U.S. and having nearly no local phone costs and 30$ are about 1-3 hours extra work you have to do.
Shouldn't be a problem even if you are still attending school. (I did the same 12 years ago and had a lot more free money than nowadays when I have to pay everything myself)
Werewo
JG 301 "Heimatverteidigung"
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Guys what are you whining about? I am living in Germany and if I want to play online i have to pay an average of 70 cents / hour telephone fee + 15$ ISP + 30$ (in future) + access fee + 25$ basic fee for my ISDN.
Approximately I pay 175$ / month for my online fun (including researches and brand W). You are lucky living in U.S. and having nearly no local phone costs and 30$ are about 1-3 hours extra work you have to do.
Shouldn't be a problem even if you are still attending school. (I did the same 12 years ago and had a lot more free money than nowadays when I have to pay everything myself)
Werewo
JG 301 "Heimatverteidigung"
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$29.95/mo. is less than 2 sodas a day out of the pop machine.
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No offence werewolf, but you do not know what my personal situation is, nor do you actually know where I live (irrelevant) or what I pay for ISP access, or what my other monthly expenses are. You are making your own sacrifices and justifications just as I have to make my own based SOLEY on my personal situation. Maybe you have much more in the way of disposabel income than I do or not as many other expenses. I already work a long number of hours and working more is out of the question. I already put in 55+ hours a week for work. If I work more hours to make more money then I don't have the time available to spend that money playing online games.
In all truth lets just sufice it to say that each of us has their own PERSONAL situation and money is an object. I simply can not afford, nor can I justify, 29.95 a month for an online game. TOO EXPENSIVE.
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Col. mburns
XO and Ops Officer
94th Aero Pursuit Sqdrn
1st Pursuit Group
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I don't buy sodas from the pop machine. I buy 12 or 24 packs on sale to help save money so that my sodas only cost me 25-30 cents each instead of 50-75 or $1 each. I also bring a lunch to work as food around where I work would cost a minimum of $6.00 a day for lunch.
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Col. mburns
XO and Ops Officer
94th Aero Pursuit Sqdrn
1st Pursuit Group
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Just make Smithers sell one of his kidneys... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (sorry, monty, couldn't resist).
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Flathat
'Black Dahlia'
No10 RNAS "The Black Flight"
Angel on your wing, devil on your tail
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Really meant no offense, but compare it to brand W where you have to pay for each hour after you consumed your included flying time.
(29,95$=20 hours, after that 1,50$ each hour)
And the guys developing and running AH surely put a lot of work in it (guess at last more than 60 hours a week now) and they need to earn money too. 100 registered users will only make up around 3000 bucks a month.
30$ still sound fair to me.
Werewo
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I don't buy sodas from the pop machine. I buy 12 or 24 packs on sale to help save money so that my sodas only cost me 25-30 cents each instead of 50-75 or $1 each.
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Mburns,
With that fiscal mindset I would think you would be preaching AH to the choir.
The total expenditure for me is the equivalent of two and one half days pay through out the entire year. I can handle that considering how much pleasure AH provides me (and the money it saves me actully).
Cheers,
Yeager
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I can certainly empathise with the esteemed Mr. Burnsie. Been there, done that. Now that I am in a better financial situation, and having spent $200 a month on more than one occasion for brand W, $30 sounds just too cheap to me.
Mr. Burns is right though. No matter how each of us can find justification for what we spend, we cannot justify what others should spend. It's their life and their situation. What is good for me may or may not be good for the other guy.
This is my hobby, I would rather stay at home and fly an online sim than go to a movie and dinner. Not everyone feels this way. That is good. Makes for a much more interesting world.
Hope you stick around Burnsie while it's free. I can't think of anyone that seriously would consider you a freeloader. Put in your $.02 worth on things you feel need changing and you will have done your duty as a beta tester.
I have enjoyed flying with you in the past and hope to do so again. BTW, I am -mark- in DOA and WB :-).
MarkAT
[This message has been edited by Mark Luper (edited 11-08-1999).]
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The gents are right,
Yaz makes ya choices with your expendable income. A dollor a day is cheap entertainment. Less than a movie, cable TV, hookers... er, dating. If AH matures like I'm betting they will, that's a lotta fun for cheap. Baloney tastes like caviar after landing a 5 kill sortie. Hope to cya up!
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The price is far to low as far as i am concerned.. Minimum monthy should star at $50.00 a month,then it could be worked on from there.. I spend 4 to 5 times that amount on WB with 2 accounts. And i will pay whatever HTC want for me to fly AH as well.
I will gladly pay whats needed to keep my hobbie (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
A a damn good hobbie it is.
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--wd-- Jagdgeschwader 26 "Schlageter"
"The Abbeville Boys"
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"Maybe if we're persistent enough we can get a "Dawn of Aces High" WW1 arena"
Wouldnt that be nice!!!
Stick around monty, you wouldnt be freeloading you would be beta testing and the sim would benifit from your presence. I know where you are comming from, $30 american is a lot for me too, but I have been thinking about a diet ,and baloney, kraft dinner and hotdogs arent that bad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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mburns,
Obviously the pricing isn't for you. I happen to believe it's the right price in order for AH to be a profitable company, but unfortunately there will always be segments of the flying population who can't afford it. That percentage is WAY lower for Aces High than it is for Warbirds, though, at least if you want to spend a decent amount of time flying. Personally I don't believe that comparing AH to DoA is correct, though, at least until AH is out of beta. Then it's my belief that there will be no comparison, especially since one's a WW1 sim and the other's a WW2 sim. I believe HTC will have a high subscription rate for the type of sim'er its catering to, so it's hard to see why they'd want to price it lower. Also keep in mind that prices usually go down (haven't seen them go up), so to start with an uber-low unlimited price would be stupid on HTC's part.
ko
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Mburns made some very sincere and honest remarks.
Kier, and others, treated his statements with due respect.
This is the kind of communication that we and Hitech Creations can benefit from. Keep up the good attitudes, and we will all enjoy flight sims. and get the best possible pricing in the long run. Salute, guys.
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Its simple.
The WB crowd thinks 30$ a month is cheap, they paid 2$ an hour WB for christ sake.
The AW crowd paid 10$ (i think) for flat rate so they get an increse in costs with 20$
This is not hard to see why people are divided on this issue. . .
// Maniac
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I do appreciate everyone's feedback on this issue and the polite way in which it was given. Believe me when I say that the few hours I have spent in AH flying the Pony have been enjoyable. The people there, like the majority I have encountered in the flight sim community, are top notch. It's also been encouraging to see many of the names I know from DoA. When AH goes pay to play I will of course reevaluate my situation and compare it to how much I enjoy the sim. Please remember that I really do love WWI and if HTC was to produce a WWI sim of the "potential" calibur of AH it would be harder not to pay and play.
Dawg, -mark-, rosco-, flathat, kier, blur, dinger, and yeager, it's nice to see your familiar DoA names. I hope to see you all back in DoA from time to time (unless HTC makes a WWI sim).
Driving home yesterday I thought of the irony of this situation. I call myself Monty Burns, the richest, most powerful and evil man in The Simpsons TV show, yet in real life I can't afford $30.00/month for a flight sim.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to remove one of Mr. Smither's kidneys. Now where is my letter opener?
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Col. mburns
XO and Ops Officer
94th Aero Pursuit Sqdrn
1st Pursuit Group
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Good Luck on the operation, MBurns.
For many of us, $30/month will mean a savings on our flight sim habits.
Others, like yourself, represent revenue sources that HiTechCreations cannot tap with their current pricing structure. Keep an eye on the situation, because nothing is set in stone and if competitive pressures become great enough, changes are possible.
Another lost revenue source is customers with more than one computer at their homes. I have two. When a pilot (aluminum plane pilot, not a simmer) buddy drops by , we warm up both computers and fly a sortie in Brand W. This will not be happening at my house with AH under the current pricing plan. There's additional revenue waiting for HiTechCreations if they respond to it. I'm keeping an eye on the situation myself.
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Mr Burns and PapaFox, please don't forget that HTC has indicated that Aces High will support 8 player multi-player for free.
Not on a dedicated server, but H2H style x 4. That means duels are possible as well as practicing squad elements and formations, etc.
Mr Burns: excellent! (Just had to say it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ). Unfortunately, Aces High isn't marketed to you specifically. A free market system being what it is, Aces High pricing structure has been set in accordance with what HTC thinks its perceived market will bear and to be competitive with similar product. Each consumer has to make the decision of whether or not the price is justified for the product (taking into account external factors that are relevant solely to that particular consumer).
Unfortunately, in your case it appears this is not so. One can hardly blame HTC for that (nor am I suggesting that you are doing so); however, they are creating a product that is planned as an improvement to one aspect of their competition, WB, and they have placed their product at a price point so that it will be a relative savings for many consumers. Not only that, the improvements are not just a better flight and damage model, but entirely new features like a 3d cockpit, external fuel tanks, clouds, operable ground vehicles, steerable ships, supply stragegy.
For some that is definitely worth the $30/month, and that is obviously to whom the product is marketed.
Cheers,
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phaetnAT
Aces High Alpha Tester
[This message has been edited by phaetn (edited 11-09-1999).]
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thought Id pop in a ramble a bit here....
current situation: no cable TV as I needed to save money to pay for a second phone line (wifes parents hate not getting through and I hated getting disco'ed cause my wife or daughter needed the phone) I USED to pay minimum 60 bucks a month ISP charges (2 accounts each at 200 hours each 29.95) then add a per hour after that of 50 cents per. you get a inter net alone that runs 90 + dollars a month (this is all American)
a thought of cost: lets look at anouther company TOTALY : Origin (makers of Ultima Online) they have something like 13 shards (independant worlds) each world has multipule server computers (this is how they can have over 1000 players online in a single "shard" at one time) now you have APPROX 10 or more computers per shard. lets use this as an average. 13 x 10 is 130 server computers. where HTC is using 1 computer for about 200 (goal I am guessing) users. if they was to fill up the 130 servers that would be $780,000.00 per month
ok 130 computers is a lot to ask to be filled hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) but even at $10 a month $260,000.00 a month lets break it down more lets say 10 servers at $10 a month its 20,000 a month. not a get rich quick plan but would pay thier bills (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) now this is figuring they would only get 2000 users (well under guessed). personaly I would say $15 to $20 a month would be fair and would bring more potential customers to the line.
on another note: my wife already is set (and I DONT argue if I like a warm bed instead of cold dirt) that I can only sign on if its $15 or less. I already took her cable so cant ask for much more.
so with the price not in stone (hopefully) Im still hoping and trying to fly!
thnx for the chance at rambling its the thing I do best (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Greetings Gentlemen and ladies (there are some lady pilots out there),
I have been flying around in AH for a few days now and enjoying myself very much. Last night dancing around a large cloud bank near field 6 was simply eccchseeelent! It was alos great to fly wing with Mark again and to see Hazel (aka scot in DoA) online. I have been doing a serious budget analysis and Hitech Creations, and hopefully some of you gents, will be happy to hear that I can and will be able to lay down 30.00 a month for AH. I made a few cuts in expenses, most notably a few magazine subscriptions, and that cleared the way for me to keep flying DoA and to add in ACES HIGH!!! Hell I wasn't reading the mags anyways (okay one was mostly pics, but I can get that off the internet for free) and 3 people I am close with already get the same mags. It's amazing what you discover when you reevaluate your budget. It seems I didn't need to slice out Smithers kidney after all. Well one can always use the extra cash I say. See you in the skies.
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Col. mburns
XO and Ops Officer
94th Aero Pursuit Sqdrn
1st Pursuit Group
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Congrats! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
// -nr-1-
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Hehe - wtg (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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129 IAP VVS RKKA
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can I use that kidney then?
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See, now there you go! Go back and read #3 from my original response to you... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Thanks for some new budget-cutting ideas... I'll look around!
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Great to hear youll be staying Mburns- Have enjoyed the challenge of your well flown mustang.At your suggestion tried it myself and gained some insights into beating it(i hope (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)That chase into the clouds was a blast! See you up soon-always good fun to come up across a well handled con-salute and congrats on your creative financing strat.