Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: poopster on July 11, 2002, 11:05:21 PM
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Or field conquest in general.
It has always puzzled me.
I ask this because I'm from a different school. I know there are a whole lot of people that enjoy the hell out of it. I just don't understand it besides an occasional NOE raid.
I have a former squadie, a good friend, that will set up a bombing mission with his squad to hit a base in an unpopulated arena with little or no resistance and have and absolute BLAST doing it.
Help me here..
I..really don't understand.
On the flip side I CAN understand why what I enjoy makes no sense to youz guyz.
I just don't have a handle on the flip side.
Any insights appreciated :)
I know it's out there..
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My guess is your friend is seeking immersion. I supposed a fair number of WWII bomber missions were actually milk runs. Maybe
it lets him pretend to be concerned with a lot of other bomber guy stuff, like formation flying and bombsight calibrating, without
worrying about constant E/A attacks..
Poop!
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hey pooper!!
When our squad is training in how to buff, formation flying, communication, etc, we will seek out an unpopulated base to experiment on - no need for pesky opposition to screw us uo further!! When we want to have fun and a challenge, we hit on a defended base.
So, to summarize, one reason to hit an undefended base is to practise your planning, formation flying, target assessmnet, BDA, etc.
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First off, its undefended by your country by choice. There's a flashing warning on the town, then the field, whenever there is a contact within a 1/2 of grid.
Secondly, when I "plan" a mission to take a field, I don't determine whether or not its defended...I determine its strat value for post-capture operations (continue to move). If its defended, several escorts are assigned, or a pre-empt fighter sweep is employed. If not defended, the Jabo fighters turn into a BARCAP flight after ordnance is released.
Honestly, no I don't enjoy it, I'd like something other than just stationary buildings to give me a target after ordnance is gone.
Lonewolfing attacks on undefended fields:
They can be alot of fun with GV's. especially if it just 2 or 3 of you, and an enemy or 3 begin to defend it once the field is flashing...makes for a nice small battle.
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wouldn't a nice boxed sim be better for all you Ai building battlers? I'm sure it would be more complex too.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
wouldn't a nice boxed sim be better for all you Ai building battlers? I'm sure it would be more complex too.
lazs
Why don't you furballers just go to the DA? I'm sure it would be less complex than having to deal with an organized incoming flight of angry hornets...Nice try Lazs, use better bait next time ;)
(http://www.cuttermotors.com/jon_shafer/hook_up.gif)
Nothing is more complex than running into a high alt capped field. Its very enjoyable! Lately, with THIS new map, I admit its tough to find a good base defense, so when I do have time, I've been putting up missions to fields where a big red bar exists.
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Training?
The thrill of being naughty and not getting caught?
Sometimes I will log into the arena just to see whats going on without any intention of playing. The arena is alive and I might just want to see whos on. Whos winning, losing etc etc.
Sometimes I will grab a plane and just fly off into a quiet part of the sky with no desire to find a fight. Just a way to relax, look around, read the buffer....
Bottom line: Do whatever floats your boat.
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dealing with and organized gangbang is easy... simply ignore it.
lazs
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Originally posted by Yeager
Training?
The thrill of being naughty and not getting caught?
Sometimes I will log into the arena just to see whats going on without any intention of playing. The arena is alive and I might just want to see whos on. Whos winning, losing etc etc.
Sometimes I will grab a plane and just fly off into a quiet part of the sky with no desire to find a fight. Just a way to relax, look around, read the buffer....
Bottom line: Do whatever floats your boat.
BINGO! (I've done the same Yeager, with my limited time)
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Originally posted by lazs2
dealing with and organized gangbang is easy... simply ignore it.
lazs
People tend to ignore things that can conquer them or present a challenge beyond the capabilities of the person. I understand completely Lazy.
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then again... people tend to ignore things that are boring and unfun. just as they tend to ignore people who are eh ripsnore?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
then again... people tend to ignore things that are boring and unfun. just as they tend to ignore people who are eh ripsnore?
lazs
You've heard the term "mindless furballing" no? ;) I actually enjoy it all, your the only guy that has "shoeboxed" yourself into one style, and being the center of the universe, expect everyone to follow...
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enjoying root canals does not make you a complete person.
lazs
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I've had some good fun driving an FM2 over to a flashing V base, to interrupt a milk run. Since the milk runners often put up a fight, I guess they have fun too.
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Originally posted by lazs2
enjoying root canals does not make you a complete person.
lazs
Neither does belittling pilots that don't fly your way. ;)
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Suppose somebody likes to shoot down aircraft. Suppose they happen across a vulchfest. Will they fly away because the vulchees can't effectively defend themselves. In most cases it would appear not.
Suppose somebody likes to capture fields. Suppose they attack a field and nobody shows up to defend it. The parallels seem obvious to me.
If a map somehow fosters a large amount of milkrunning or vulching then a lot of milkrunning or vulching is going to happen.
Hooligan
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The people who like taking undefended bases are basically playing a different game than those who like the air combat.
For the "milkrunners" (for lack of a better term), the fun comes from the teamwork and from the satisfaction of completing the mission. Enemy action is viewed as contrary to the goal of capturing bases and so is avoided when possible--the game, in the eyes of the "milkrunner", is about out-smarting the enemy rather than outfighting him.
For those who seek A2A combat, the fun comes from the fight, win or lose. The focus of the game is more on PvP combat than on team coordination. Things like base capture and such can come into play, but are never the focus for these players.
Needless to say, these two different mindsets will tend not to get along terribly well--they're polar opposites. The "milkrunners" never like the A2A guys because the constant A2A does little or nothing to capture territory; the A2A crowd has little respect for the "milkrunners" because they never want to fight. The A2A guys aren't strictly limited to the "furballers"; a great many A2A players DO try to damage bases, hit strat targets, etc--just the A2A crowd will always seek to engage enemy airplanes as a priority.
I myself am here for the A2A; I couldn't careless about my "country" or which base gets stolen by who. I'm not against the "milkrunner" crowd so much as I feel there needs to be a balance between the two playing styles--a balance which is largely absent in AKDESERT.
J_A_B
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where is lazs when you need him? last night me and 2 others interupted a sneak attack to take 221, ( sorry guys, never caught your names ).
for almost 3/4 hour the bish came at us with fighters, A-20's , C47's, trying to capture the base. with great skill and determination and wingman tactics the 3 of us held them off, i kept calling for support, but where was lazs and his 5 to 1 kill ratio?, off in a furball picking off newbies??
the bish finally gave up but only after some very close and hard gunfights, 1 v 1 , 1 v 2 , 2 v 1, whatever.
lazs don't like bombers , lazs don't like base taking , lazs don't like base defending , lazs don't like long flights , lazs just like furballing...........how many planes does it take to make a "furball"?
44MAG
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i love sitting in the tower watching bish typh raids. For every structure they hit 1 typg augers. Its laughable most of the time.
My squad used to deack a field and wait till fighters up the fight them.
I remember ag and i fighting Alexei (308th). Us in g6s him in his yak. Great times gone for ever. Now shoot the same guy down twice he runs 500 miles away to the other side of the map. My squaddie soviet followed a p51 2 sector in a g2 thinking the guy wants a 1 v 1. Well the 51 runs to a base and lands. Soviet calls him on it and dude says "I dont feel like fighting right now". He then shows back up in a 51 ad gets chased off again. With these types of fights now wonder folks milkrun.
All field captures on the map become "undefended captures" Most leave in the face of resistance.
I dont care if I get killed I just like mixing it up a2a. I log around 5 pm east my time turn off all clip board icons and look at dar. Hardly any real a2a stuff going on.
Folks are under the impression that because there is field capture the that most be the thing "to do" in the main. If that what you like great have fun.
We had a good a2a battle going on and some guy spawns and starts screaming over the vox "we need to get ack down". What are there over 250 fields on the map and this dude assumes we need to break up the only a2a fight on the map because "field capture" is the thing in the main. He then comes back after gettin killed and fininshes the ack and screams no one is helping him vulch. Then proceeds to strafe down the fuel.
I'd rather have umm attacking undefended bases and leave the fields where theres good fights alone.
Thank god most haven't been able to figure the buffs out.
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"Thank god most haven't been able to figure the buffs out."
Its not that, its the fact that the buff bombsite doesn't account for bomb drag, (or visa versa? Forget...) it will be fixed soon ;)
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When you launch an attack on an undefended field, you don't know what the situation will be by the time you get there. Will there be one low con, or six high ones? That's part of the thrill.
So far this tour, I've spent the majority of my time defending fields. The vast majority of the time I've been out-numbered, and at least half of the time I've defended fields solo. I've also had more MA fun this tour than I have in a long time.
Most of the "Milkrunners" that I have fought off didn't give up for an easier undefended target, they came back again and again. Some people like to fight, they just want smaller fights. From their point of veiw, either they get a good small scrap, or they capture a field just in the nick of time. Maybe they killed a defender or two, maybe they even get to kill them several times over.
There is a thrill, because anything can happen at any time!
eskimo
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Originally posted by eskimo2
There is a thrill, because anything can happen at any time!
eskimo
You pretty much described "Comfort zones" in gameplay...there are those who take themselves out of their "Comfort zones" by doing chancey, unpredicatible missions, and those who just do furballing only (would rather remain in their respective "comfort zone") I prefer both, depending on my mood.
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44 mag... I am sure that your "great skill and teamwork" is far in excess of mine. I have never claimed to be more than a mediocre pilot in a mediocre plane but..... If I woulda noticed a good fite i woulda joined it. anyone who knows me might understand that. As for "defending the base" LOL! who cares? let em take it if the fight gets too lopsided. I fight on for a bit and then leave once the gangbang gets too bad. I like fight that are about even in numbers.... a few extra on either side is fine tho. I have been vulched myself trying to take off from a field but it was only because there was nothing else happening not because I wished to "defend" anything. Also..... I don't know who you are talking about with a 5/1 K/D ratio but it isn't me.
wotan is correct... watching one of those huge raids that lose about 90% of their planes to kill a couple of leantoos is hillarious. It makes one think that lack of skill is the driving force for "missun joinin".
ripsnore... being bored is out of my comfort zone.
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"Why do you enjoy taking undefended bases..
Aaaah.... because there easier to take than a defended one?
Just a guess.....
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Yesterday I couldn't find my "comfort zone" in the new arena ( a common problem ) so I loaded up some bombs and rockets on the hog and headed out to an undefended base.
Along the way ran into a pilot with the same plan and he was very helpful. Me asking dumb questions, he was alot of help.
Low level we popped up on the city, he shot a couple of rockets, I shot a couple of rockets, stuff blew up :D and we set up for the second pass...
He was the first in and ack took him out. In I came, shot a couple rockets, dropped my bombs, stuff blew up :D and then I was also killed by the ack.......
There were destroyed buildings, fire and smoke from the city.
So...
Was that successful ?? Or unsuccessful ?
Is the taking of the base more important than landing the sortie ?
Is it all for the "greater good" ??
Or do I just have to learn how to do it and remain in one piece ?
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you can lean to kill a vh, deack a field, and twn, and kill most of the structures in a twn by yourself.
or you can just kill the twn, shoot the ack at the vh, land there reup a goon and capture it yourself.
or grab a gv level the town .ef grab a m3 and capture the base yourself.
There is very little co-ordination needed to capture anything in ah.
However there are some folks who quite effectively "co-ordinate" a base raid not because its neccessary but because they enjoy it. More power to umm.
But then again I am sure the bish call their suicidal typh raids "co-ordination" as well.
The question isnt "should folks be allowed to enjoy ah the way they want"
Have fun however you find it.
But much like the old buff model theres little skill needed to accomplish it.
I have come to the belief that most folks dont like dieing to other folks. They go out of their way to avoid a2a fights but will suicide a cv or airfield.
So the answer to why folks rather attack an undefended field as opposed to a2a fights is, theres a result to field capture "wow we got it" a2a fights are mostly "damn here they come again".
But ya cant make folks fly the way you want. So if it gets to boring then I guess it will be time to look some where else.