Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on July 12, 2002, 01:22:55 PM
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There’s no need for me to advise you that there have been a great many whines on this board about the current AK-Desert map. Just out of interest, I did a search to locate posts containing the word “pizza”, and got more than 200 hits!
More than a few guys are having problems. They can’t find the fights that they once could, or at least not in the same way. For me, however, the new version of the game, combined with the AK-Desert terrain, has presented new opportunities. I have been fascinated by the capture of those small vehicle fields around the edge of the map, and also some of the ones down in the canyons in the middle of the map. The past 48 hours have been amongst the best, most fun times I’ve had in Aces High since starting last November.
On the face of it, capture of a desert vehicle field looks easy. Just roll an Ostwind to get the acks and (optionally) the hangar if you think a PNZR might pop up, then roll in your M3 with troops. There’s even enough time for the same person to do both! Some guys are better than me and can get the acks with the M3 gun! But what to do if there’s a PNZR hotshot like CODY waiting for you :( - or a manned field gun?
What I found yesterday, when working with squaddie Keez is something I have sought for a long time. I’ve at last discovered a mission that requires planning, co-ordination, co-operation and communication, and of course accurate timing to deploy the necessary forces as they are needed, but without vast numbers of pilots exerting ridiculous numerical supremacy. The scene was this: A vehicle field was being protected by either a field gunner or a PNZR, or maybe both. Those who dared stick their heads over the last sand dune got blown away. So we went about it in a different way. The only way we could see to capture the field was with air support. I called Keez on the squad channel, and he came over in his P47 with bombs and rockets. While he was on his way, I rolled an M3 up as far as the last sand dune. He got the two acks plus the hangar and a pesky PNZR, and I was able to roll in with the M3.
A little later on, I was involved in a further three capture attempts. One of these failed because we underestimated the importance of air cover, and the target was a long way from our nearest airfield. The enemy PNZR was able to spawn nearby using a remote spawn point of a distant field and sat on top of a hill, taking pot shots at my guys. The only way we could have prevented this would have been to bomb that other field – even deeper into enemy territory. But that was a mission that taught me the importance of the timing. Get your goon up early if you want to use one, get ground cover into position, and jabos in the air with plenty of fuel. Of course, a big challenge might be to find guys that can be relied upon to play their part, and names like akwabbit, ws8s, doyle, animal42, snorkel, gman, and squaddies keez, revvin, dayo are all names I can trust. The P47D30 really comes into its own on missions such as these. I decided to fly one myself, and used 2x1000 bombs for the vehicle hangar, rockets for the acks, and the last bomb for that pesky PNZR who might be hiding nearby. One time I missed the VH by a few yards, but found I could strafe it down with the P47’s 8x.50cal.
Planning these missions has been such a welcome change from the erstwhile AH formula of upping en masse – you know what I’m talking about! Guys who call for 40 tiffies, B17s, LANCs, maybe a dozen or so goons, P38s etc. - and go mob handed to forcibly smash down and capture a field. That does not interest me in the slightest.
With 1.10, the game has changed. Guys are whining that they cant find fights. They can’t rack up the kills the way they once did. LOL! My [expletive of choice] heart bleeds for them. :rolleyes: You see, real war wasn’t like that. Real war was about encountering obstacles that had to be overcome. Missions had to be thought out. Planning was paramount. Once the Battle of Britain had been won, did its pilots deployed to hotter climes complain because their aircraft would not have the same climb performance in an atmosphere of reduced density? I don’t think so. They had a job to do, and they did it. Pilots did not rack up kills every day. Gabreski was active in his P47 over Germany and later in an F86 Sabre in Korea, and got about 35 career kills in two wars spanning more than ten years. Some guys in AH are whining if they get less than that in an evening!
In AH, the war has moved into a new phase. Some guys don’t like it because the old familiar fields are no longer there. They used to know which were the high alt fields, and which targets to hit and from where and in which plane. They had learned to “game the game”, but now the game has changed and they’re crying. :D They also complain about the distance between fields, but at least that means a planned attack does not get wiped out by dweebs upping LA7s from the nearest base a few miles away and coming in with a huge alt advantage.
If I wanted to, I could still find mindless furballs, kills for their own sake, and organised gangbangs in which I would have the opportunity to boost the one thing that is of utmost importance to some lost souls – kills, stats and scores. But I’ve found something which for me is rather better. ;)
And now, Tomato is here and it's her birthday. We are going to an Italian restaurant in Henley-onThames. I shall probably order a pizza :D
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Hehe, good post Scrambl ! :)
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If I wanted to, I could still find mindless furballs, kills for their own sake, and organised gangbangs in which I would have the opportunity to boost the one thing that is of utmost importance to some lost souls – kills, stats and scores. But I’ve found something which for me is rather better.
Yah, OK. I'll be your wingman. This ought to be bliss.
You were having a run till you eluded that AH is just like a "Real War".
When will everyone understand AH has nothing in conception regarding war besides machines, namely WWII. It's a GAME. A GAME!
No 100 vs. 3 Germany airwar fultile horrid atrocity, maps can look like a Gyro and work, you even get fuel for the pitiful German machines, it don't matter. It's planeset fun, with anti-never been even eluded too WWII strat.
It's the only thing that keeps me sane knowing I pay $14.99 which is 3 trips to Wendy's a month to look at the fantacy cockpits.
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Well said beet1e. :)
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I agree with Creamo. AH is a game. It doesn't--and shouldn't--try to replicate every aspect of a "Real" war. War isn't fun; AH is a game and hence should be fun.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
I agree with Creamo. AH is a game. It doesn't--and shouldn't--try to replicate every aspect of a "Real" war. War isn't fun; AH is a game and hence should be fun.
J_A_B
Not to be argumentative but so is checkers. I enjoy the strategy element as well as the furballing and I've found both in abundance.
I do sympathize with those that are unable to play at peak times but feel pretty sure something will be done to accomodate them.
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For me, however, the new version of the game, combined with the AK-Desert terrain, has presented new opportunities...
Iron, please... I know that's a "Your OK" in the eye of the whine storm, but your actually OK no matter how far fetched that "this is a great vehicle capture map!" post is.
Good work, but should i get excited about bad Panzer graphics and a anti-GV player base?
I'm a flightsim junkie. I have Steel Beasts btw, the math is so clear.
The velocity of people to get excited about nothing while the flight game play has questions is amazing. I just like it AH as a flightsim mostly, and note what I think needs to be changed. Seems fair.
At least Drip is impressed. Why? Who knows.
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Creamo, I'm a flight sim junkie as well and have been for almost 20 years. I've almost never had any trouble finding a fun fight in Aces High either before or after 1.10. Of course it helps that there's almost always a squaddie on that's invloved somewhere and all I have to do is ask.
Not sure what you mean about the whining, there was a lot of angst expressed when HiTech first released a pic of AKDesert. If it had been expressed in a somewhat mature way I never would have called 'whiner'.
Unlike HiTech, none of you folks are my customers and I'm as free to express my opinion here as are you. I never call my customers whiners, even when they are. (but I do my friends) ;)
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Angst it is.
Don't bother me now.
Tour 3? I'd a cut throats! :)
I got $2.37 that says 100 of them early players would too, but are equally patient.
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Creamo - I agree about the game thing. It's true to say that War was not fun, and therefore the more realistic we make AH the less fun we will have. But there's a limit to the reverse of this, which is the less realistic we make it, the more fun we'll have. Well I think so anyway. I don't have any fun at all, vulching. Some people like Fariz enjoy large missions, although he claims the the secret to success in AH is not force, but sneaks - LOL
Here we are, having captured this field, and about to embark on another "stealth" mission.
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some peoples idea of what consists of a "fun fite" is quite different from others.
as creamo points out... real war is boring to replicate. lopsided is not fun for at least one side. inaction is not fun for MOST.
I find it a little insulting for some to come on here and tell people that everything is fine and that we are imagining that we can't find as good a fites as before. The things that beetle described to me sound exactly like watching paint dry fun wise.
lazs
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I find it a little insulting for some to come on here and tell people that everything is fine and that we are imagining that we can't find as good a fites as before
So cry me a river :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by J_A_B
I agree with Creamo. AH is a game. It doesn't--and shouldn't--try to replicate every aspect of a "Real" war. War isn't fun; AH is a game and hence should be fun.
J_A_B
War is a game also. There's just a hefty price for losing.
I can't recall the name, but I think it was a civil war general that said something to the effect of, "It's a good thing war is so terrible, otherwise we might enjoy it too much."
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LOL - Lazs has finally risen to the bait. I'm good at baiting - some would say I'm a master at it :D
Lazs, I echo revvin's sentiments. Tough toejam if you can't game the game any more. You and your 500 clones will have to get used to it. Why don't you just play offline, and shoot down drones - now that they're killable again. Repetitious? Maybe, but I doubt whether you would notice any perceptible change from what you do year in, year out in the MA.
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Excellent post Scrmbl I too have enjoyed the increased ground war potentials.
There is something for everyone here if you take the time to look for it.
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That picture beet1e says it all for me. Beeeutiful picture filled with nothin but goodguys.
Now THAT has gotta be a whole lot of fun.
You and your 500 clones will have to get used to it
But that's where your wrong.
As unfortunate as that is, me, I, whoever, does not have to get used to it.
I've got about as used to it as I care too.
But I am glad your finally happy.
I'll do my main putzing around somewhere else until this wonderful map with all it's glowing potential and great variety is rotated.
But that's just me. I'm just a clone ;)
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One of the best things with this new map are the big boulders.Now you can use cover in your vehicle.The best ground battles ever are on this map.
Only things missing are ground level wind effects and tumbleweeds...Great post beatle!
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Originally posted by beet1e
Lazs, I echo revvin's sentiments. Tough toejam if you can't game the game any more. You and your 500 clones will have to get used to it. Why don't you just play offline, and shoot down drones - now that they're killable again. Repetitious? Maybe, but I doubt whether you would notice any perceptible change from what you do year in, year out in the MA.
Sorry to disappoint you, but last night there was a wonderful and huge furball between A122 and A123... literally dozens of players from both sides going at it with just a short hop between bases. Let the games continue!
-- Todd/Leviathn
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beetle... to be a masterbaiter... you should make sense. It would help. I am glad that a building battler/ai warrior like yourself has found a map that he can hide in tho.
lazs
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ROFL.
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Funny thing poopster, that picture isn't from akdesert.
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Well your right of course, it's GREEN :D
I was thinkin maybe a dose of the old maps might be the ticket...
(http://store4.yimg.com/I/randalls_1690_3221457)
And there's WAY more where that comes from..
I've got an "in"
;)
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>Funny thing poopster, that picture isn't from akdesert.
Heh. HT, with this crowd, it seldom pays to try and confuse the issue with facts.
Wab
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Hold it up a second, put that truck over there till this ones unloaded...
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid25/pc14788615a347afd4f8c1d7b67c57af8/fd896e17.jpg)
Green canyons :)
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid25/pc14788615a347afd4f8c1d7b67c57af8/fd896e17.jpg)
MOVE IT people got alot to unload here..
Beautiful canyons :)
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid25/pc14788615a347afd4f8c1d7b67c57af8/fd896e17.jpg)
Stack them over by the door, Jimmy get that truck out of here !!....
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid25/pc14788615a347afd4f8c1d7b67c57af8/fd896e17.jpg)
Green pastures....:)
AND SHEEP !!!!
Think about it boss, I'm off to the airport, next load is coming in...
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Swing it TOWARDS the dock !!!
Mike get those guys ready to tie it off..
EASY FOR CRIPES SAKES !!!
Ok, ok, easy now...
Nice and easy..
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid25/p873ba8d3974852df2102d48334002c7e/fd8966ab.gif)
Nice smaller area where we can mix it up like old times :)
;)
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(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid25/p3243f9ee7e0c709ddc280a060abeb230/fd894a1b.jpg)
Well....... *hic* sats about it..
Tapped da supplyerr *biff* ah...out..
Jimmmy get tha truck over heer ya bastage *hic*
GOD I miss the sheep..
*hic*
BRUHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!
Mike get your hands OFF her !!!
*hic*
snnnot bad stuff you know ??
*burp*
;)
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
War is a game also. There's just a hefty price for losing.
I can't recall the name, but I think it was a civil war general that said something to the effect of, "It's a good thing war is so terrible, otherwise we might enjoy it too much."
"It is well war is so frightful. Otherwise, we should become too fond of it."
R.E. Lee. Fredericksburg, 1862.
Wasn't much fun for the federal II Corps.
Splash1
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Tried a bottle of this Saturday, liked it better than Cragganmore.
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So Poopster,are going to the AH convention? Have a free room for you.
I'd like to hang with someone with THAT much booze..:)
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Heh. HT, with this crowd, it seldom pays to try and confuse the issue with facts
It can also be said that a "yes" man rarely adds anything of revelence to a debated subject.
nopoop
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Originally posted by poopster
It can also be said that a "yes" man rarely adds anything of revelence to a debated subject.
nopoop
Would agree concerning the subject 'debate', however, the same could be said for naysayers and furthermore how many of them ever accomplished anything of significance?
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It can also be said that a "yes" man rarely adds anything of revelence to a debated subject.
Do you think spamming this topic with all you little pictures adds to the debate? Or are you trying desparately to be cutsie?
Wab
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how many of them ever accomplished anything of significance?
I do quite well thank you :)
Oh we're talking about the game ;)
The unfortunate fact that has come to pass is the map is too big for the current population.
I don't think you can really "debate" it to the contrary.
Yes the fights are out there, yes you have to look for them. The thing is with the huge map the quality that made this sim shine is lost in this GREAT BIG WORLD you have created. Many pilots have lost that *special* envirement that was present in the old maps. Note: I said maps. It seems the size is what they all share.
I can get over the silly "look" of it on the clipboard. When your "in" it makes no difference. I can get over the colors because I know that was restricted.
The size is not your fault, and I don't believe anyone is assigning blame to the map designers for the problem.
So the problem isn't with the layout of the map.
There IS a problem with size. And the continual ankle biting everytime someone makes mention of it just kills me. There is a WHOLE lot of people where size IS the concern.
I just got here, had a couple of months in nirvana and then this all happens....
AH is the best thing since sliced bread, the problem is the loaf won't fit through my front door anymore..
No Wab it wasn't a spam. It was humor, you know giggles ? I just "do" it when the mood strikes. Something lacking in your squad as of late.
And I haven't been cute in 45 or 50 years. But even then it was a stretch ;)
Your probably confusing it with kissy..
nopoop
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I beg to differ, I can debate that the map isn't too large for the current population. Convincing you may be impossible depending upon your objectivity.
One benefit of the large map is also the cause for complaint by many; it spreads people out. As many have already said, when people are bunched up there is more network traffic. This can result in warping and is dependent on at least three factors I can think of:
1) Network bandwidth to the server
2) Server's ability to handle the increased traffic
3) Client PC's ability to handle increased traffic.
I'm attaching a diagram to help illustrate this effect. While I'm not privy to the source code for Aces High it seems to me that this should be the case. Planes closer should cause data to be transmitted to each other while planes further apart should not.
There are other reasons why I prefer the large map, not the least of which is greater freedom to choose what I want to do.
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Iron I agree that bandwidth or "whatever" ( not a network guy ) can be a BIG problem. The TOD on Friday night was a perfect example. It was crazy :(
I do disagree on the larger map for the following reasons:
- With a small map there were lots of medium fights ( under bandwidth )
- Usually one bandwidth breaker
- With a large map there are lots of tiny fights ( under bandwith )
- One huge bandwidth breaker
So the options are many for medium fights on a smaller map.
The options for a medium fight are none on a large map because everyone that wants to mix it up ends up in the same place.
So in my view the options are really less in the bigger map.
That make sense ?
But this is from a "mix it up" guy, not a bomber or base capture dude.
The added benifit ( I would think ) of the smaller map is all the different types of flyers interact. Where with the larger map it isn't a requirement. Hence the tiny fights. You have to "work" to find something happening unless you rely on the bandwidth breaker.
It narrows the choices while being bigger.
Whodathunkit...
nopoop
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Originally posted by Dennis
"It is well war is so frightful. Otherwise, we should become too fond of it."
R.E. Lee. Fredericksburg, 1862.
Wasn't much fun for the federal II Corps.
Splash1
Yeah... that's the one. Thanx Dennis.
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What you're saying sounds reasonable nopoop, however, what I've observed in the large map is that there are mostly small fights with a few medium fights.
On average, I saw more large fights on the small maps.
You did get my point about there being a lot more net traffic involved if you put 50 people in one fight than say 5 fights with 10 people each, right?
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Iron there has got to be something similar to WB with a plane limit. WB is 32. Anything above that and planes start disappearing and winking in and out. When they went to 64 it was not stable. That "could" be because of Mac issues I don't know ( not a network guy :D )
You've been around a long time, I remember in my short tenure here there being a whole lot of fights not challenging bandwidth with the smaller maps.
With the large map, there are a whole lot of tiny fights, and one BIG one.
Anyone having a half hour to set their hair on fire ends up there.
Small maps I'd take 10 minutes just checking out what fight I wanted to dive into :)
With the large map, leaving everything off but the Dar bar for a look-see and there is only one...
So fewer choices and farther to fly.
Qualified with a fur mentality or a short amount of time to fly.
nopoop
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Nopoop, I can only speculate. However, based on the latest release notes we do know that Aces High can prioritze "data streams" between planes giving enemy planes a higher priority than friendlies.
I could infer from that Aces High has no hard coded limit as to the number of planes tracked but that as the number increases, the frequency of data per plane decreases. The limits then become imposed by hardware rather than software. No idea if this is true or if the data xmitted is throttled or where by the software.
I can't argue there aren't larger furballs now than before, but it isn't my observation. The vast majority of those expressing their dislike for the size of this terrain seem to feel otherwise.
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Iron AH may be able to prioritze "data streams" and of course I don't know that. Noted less problems in a group here, then elsewhere though.
What there is to consider is the boards have changed from "The bish are a bunch of morons" or "The rooks are a bunch of gangbangers" each statement having quite a bit of merit I might add ;) to...
The "game" itself.
Lot of people out of their comfort zone now.
Haven't seen that here as a rule since I've been around.
Way of life elsewhere.
Comfort zone pays the bills.
Everyone wants to be comfortable. Apple carts....
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No arguing that many are out of their comfort zones.
Change is sometimes painful but often leads to something better.
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