Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Voss on July 13, 2002, 04:04:11 AM
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It's getting old. Very old.
I would like to recommend that we ALL step up the peer pressure and tell these guys to shut it up, immediately.
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agreed Voss the self policing of language in AW worked very well in this regard
SKurj
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I bore silent witness to the episode that prompts your post Voss.
Both sides to that affair share some responsibility. As much as the other party was using his mouth (fingers) absurdly, he was egged on by well chosen words on the otherside as well. Pre-planned so as not to show on film evidence or otherwise.
No names, no pack drill. Gathering a viliante force to shush someone only breeds a response dictated by how well you feed the other guys ego with a reply.
Ignore them and you give them no voice.
That way the rest of us looking for comms info on field attacks dont have to scroll 10 metres up the chat buffer full of rubbish conversation.
Even those not pre-dispositioned to do so, get suckered into responding to an online shouting match. That only adds to what the rest of us have to wade through.
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triger crude or ofensive words like ,,kilshoter,, if used CH 1 or country chanel :D
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Permasquelch, let's have it already.
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Voss,
I have to agree with you! Funny thing is it seems to be the same pilots night after night. They seem to do it just to push the envelope with the arena and get people to notice them. Then when they get booted or muted the come in here or back in the arena and rant about how censurship sux! LOL :rolleyes:
It would be nice if we we all more conciderate of each other and just let our "guns do the talking" in the arena.
Thunder
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To me cursing lost its value when everyone started using it.
I, being one of the premier causes for the words filter, feel very dissapointed.
I'll try to do my best to ridicule those who use it, with witty taunts and ridicule of their noodle size.
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fighting would be better than chatting. kills in the buffer would be better than chat in the buffer.
lazs
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I refer you to my discussion (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43126) about this some time ago. I don't mind the four letter words; it's racial/cultural/religious/sexist insults that I find much worse than words like diddly or shit.
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fighting would be better than chatting. kills in the buffer would be better than chat in the buffer.
you got that right! all you see is squeak, moan, whine, arguement, or what button do I need to push and the company PR Q&A sessions filling up the buffer.
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I would like HTC to publish a standard Code of Conduct that could be enforced with community peer pressure, account suspension and banning.
A well publicized, clear and simple Code of Conduct is the first step in prevention. It provides a baseline of exceptible behavior that others can be judged by; but more importantly, serves as a positive reinforcement of what behavior is to be expected within the MA.
The Terms of Service agreement is not a Code of Conduct but it could include one, and should imo.
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racial/cultural/religious/sexist insults are the best kind. It is allways someone who isn't of the racial/cultural/religious/sex who is the one who get's "insulted". self rightious little dicks IMO. Nice to get em out in the open.
lazs
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WITCH HUNT! WOOOHOOOOO!
Just a sec... there's someone at the door.
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now now, you gotta see it they float first .
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Originally posted by lazs2
racial/cultural/religious/sexist insults are the best kind. It is allways someone who isn't of the racial/cultural/religious/sex who is the one who get's "insulted". self rightious little dicks IMO. Nice to get em out in the open.
lazs
I might not be of the racial/cultural/religious/sex that is being harassed over Channel 1. But If I read something that is truly wrong and hateful, I will be insulted.
Maybe we need some Main Arena Moderators?
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I say we give voss a badge and a gun and let him loose!
Just make sure there aint any video cameras rolling tape.
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I have noticed that it get's pretty ugly here sometimes.
Where I came from, you never saw it. If you did, 10 guys were on the poster in a heartbeat. Wasn't tolerated. It didn't happen. The pilots policed themselves. Anyone new learned real quick what was not acceptable. If not, screen shots resulted in very quick action.
When I first arrived here I was surprised at what I was seeing. Saw more here in 1 day then I saw in 5 years of flying over there.
Tacky. Besides not having much imagination.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
Maybe we need some Main Arena Moderators?
This is one thing I really miss about AW, where I was a Game Assistant until EA.com panicked we might ask for payment and ended our services. :rolleyes:
My main role was to be a friendly face in the arena, answer any questions and generally try to be helpful; but we were also responsible for making sure that the general atmosphere of the arenas were not marred by players causing disruption.... more often than not, all it needed was a quick "cool it" from one of us for most people to respond positively; but if trouble-makers continued to disrupt the arena, despite several warnings, some of us also had the power to eject them. Of course, any ejections had to be reported in full in our forums, preferably with full text captures included. However, I can honestly say that in 18 months of being a Game Assistant in AW (would have been longer if I had had a choice!) I can count on one hand how often I had to take any action, and never actually ejected anyone, usually managing to resolve situations by talking to the people concerned.
I personally think that just having a 'visible presence' of something like a Game Assistant is usually enough to keep other players from causing disruption to the arena. This was something I really enjoyed doing in AW, and would willingly do it here if such a position was available. :)
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Well, the 'polite suggestion' DOES NOT work, even with your own team. All you get is elevated pissiness and more language. I can count more then one hands' worth of rude comments I've gotten just over the last four hours.
I don't understand it, either, all it takes is a little consideration and thought before typing it into the buffer. I mean, a few breathes before hitting 'enter,' would probably suffice. But, no, a lot of the guys online lack the ability to control even the slightest whim.
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Dont forget about the booze. Booze turns some otherwise decent people into some pretty heartless cruel bastards.
Ban booze!
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hey if 4-5+ other players say something to the offender, along the lines of 'watch the lip please' the language would clean up in no time at all...
thats how it worked for the most part in AW and it worked VERY well
SKurj
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.squelch 1
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Where do you draw the line is my only question.
I know the incidents that Voss is referring to, I saw it go down, and the guy in question was using the old "chit, fugging" workaround while insulting him. The words don't bother me as much as the plain lack of respect towards others.
Heck, guys like Leftfoot say WTF, or OMG, or BS every time they get shot down nearly, it's virtually a trademark of the more colorfull guys in the arena, but we ALL KNOW what these abbreviations mean. Even Hitech's squad name could fall into this category. Where is the line drawn? Only at attempts to circumvent the chat censor, or will abbreviations count soon as well.
I find it funny that I saw far less swearing and carrying on back one there was NO chat censor and no hidden admin amoung us.
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I would be all for game assistants in the way Flossy has described them.
I've been pretty disappointed in the language and attitudes I've seen displayed in the MA.
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I nominate Flossy!...:)
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Originally posted by SKurj
hey if 4-5+ other players say something to the offender, along the lines of 'watch the lip please' the language would clean up in no time at all...
thats how it worked for the most part in AW and it worked VERY well
SKurj
what worked very well was the /.eject command...that really put a sock in some of their mouths.
Ack-Ack
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He didn't mask it well at all, and then today one of my own team mates wouldn't stop either.
Makes you wonder where they hide their brains.
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hehe, anyone remember "killa-" from wb? Only thing to do was ignore him. Anything, I mean any comment at all directed at him would only spur him on.
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iEN banned Killa from the arenas and Argo banned Killa from AGW.
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You Americans cant use bad launguage the way your suposed to ,in Ireland we use it like this EG.
get the f**k out of my way.
what the f**k are u at.
what the f**k did u call me.
its f**ked eg (broken).
im f**ked eg (tired).
f**k eg (shock).
f**k it anyway.
oh f**k.
We dont say f**k you, or f**k off.
look i,ve attached a picture to cut the tension
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I've noticed it, and frankly I don't care either way. I never understood why some people MUST swear in game, like it means something to them.
I don't know...I always saw any swearing (used as an insult or otherwise) was just like poking fun at someone. It makes them feel better as they know they'll never be as good/popular as you. It's the way it works in high school...so why not here?
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Just being the center of attention is the main motivator.
Ego is a hard thing to over come for a lot of people.
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there are kids that play ah... yes some not even teens
there are dads whose kids may like to watch play...
true society seems to accept this crap more and more BUT...
swearing is a show of disrespect, and a poor reflection on yerself...
next job interview you go to... say "F**kin glad to meet you" when you meet the person... see how long the interview lasts..
SKurj
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Voss.
the guy today said fuggin
and you ranted about it for 30 miniutes at least.
you were more of a problem then he was....by far.
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There are rude dudes around - the most extreme losers will even private you with the worst. Thankfully there is the squlech function - I just wish there was an utility to make it persistent.
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I do my far share of talking on channel 1 ;) but i never use bad words or be racistest or anything of that type..
I hear people (no names.. well if u want me too i can cus i dont like him) would say the F word on AHV, is that worse then on channel 1? channel 1 u cant cuss but u can re word the word? like "fuc" and i dont see what is bad about that... AHV is another thing... people can HEAR that, if you dont wanna see what they type.. dont look down at the chat buffer but AHV u cant turn off (only squelch the person)
uhh to late so i forgot the reason to this post.. nm
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Since this thread is about me I feel compelled to put in my 2cents worth. But first, Gman, if your going to post an event that occured..tell it right will ya, or at least tell the whole story.
(posted by Gman)
I know the incidents that Voss is referring to, I saw it go down, and the guy in question was using the old "chit, fugging" workaround while insulting him. The words don't bother me as much as the plain lack of respect towards others.
Now, it went like this..I was in a panzer fight, hit the other guy from 1200 out 4 times, nuthing, he hits me once, I explode. A second later I type on open channel * Fuggn BS * period, nothing more.
Voss then takes it upon himself to act like my father and tell me to watch my language, upon which I asked him if he was going to wash my mouth with soap. He replied with a remark, so i let him know that we do have a squelch option.
Well upon hearing the squelch remark, Voss then threatens to get me booted from AH..my reply was very frank....turn on film and get ready... Go Away Fuggn Dweeb.
Well, not real sure if he said anything more, his girlfriend STUPID was bsy telling me to change countries....yadda yadda yadda.
Hell, even AKCurly decided he needed in on the action and asked me to repeat for him to film, so I obliged him as well...my exact response was Fuggn Icehole ;)
Now I am curious, what on earth gives you people the impression that it's OK to butt into a converstion or comment or whatever that has absolutely nothing to do with you? Had no one said anything, it would have been over and done, but no, guys just had to chime in.
Am I saying I want the text buffer filled with curse words, of course not, but the occasional outburst consisting of 2 lousy words, which would disappear from the text buffer 4 secs later, is not a serious issue.
But I do consider making threats such as" getting someone booted from AH " to be a very serious issue. And for every action, there is a reaction, and if ya cant handle it, dont put your nose where it doesnt belong.
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Well Wolf, since you brought it up.
I find you to be even more immature then the moron from knights that went on the rage last night. All I asked was for you to engage some thought before typing anything in the buffer. Apparently, you are not up to the task. I think your CONSTANT raving about such things as random ping counts needs to stay out of the buffer. You're even worse on AHVoice. When you go off on your rants on AHVoice it comes across my speakers at twice the volumn of the game sounds.
Pongo, it lasted for five minutes at the most. Obviously, you prefer foul language online. I don't, I know HTC doesn't, and apparently there are many users online that agree.
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Voss..put the crack pipe down, your brain is shot. Very seldom do I comment about warps, never have i said anything about ping counts, and when I do it's a very simple 'check your connection' and as for voice...Im seldom on local, usually on squad. Why don't you just grow up, change countries, or just plain disappear..this thread is dead....Ohh and i stand corrected, you are a tard not a dweeb, thnx for reminding me.
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For the guys that say "squelch 1," well, for me, that's a problem. Much of the entertainment in Aces High comes from channel 1.
I don't think any of us mind the infrequent profane remark. Indeed, even worse than profanities and obscenities are the attempts by guys in the arena to be provocative. For example, several guys will make anti-semitic remarks in an attempt to stir up channel 1.
Every squad has a guy or two who sometimes gets on channel one when the arena would be better served by their silence.
I would not like HTC to single out profane remarks. Instead, I wish they would attempt to control the disruptive participant.
Some time ago, HTC did have player-monitors, guys with the authority to eject participants. At the time, I thought "nah, that's not good." Well, I would like to change my mind.
I think all guys who state 1) unrelenting profanities, 2)unrelenting obscene remarks (including substitutes) and 3) troll on channel one by making anti-semetic/anti-american/etc remarks should be given a 15-30 minute vacation from Aces High. If they return and persist, give them a 24 hour vacation.
curly
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Originally posted by SKurj
hey if 4-5+ other players say something to the offender, along the lines of 'watch the lip please' the language would clean up in no time at all...
thats how it worked for the most part in AW and it worked VERY well
and if that didn't work, there was the "On Screen Warning" - set words we had to keep in an uploadable file and were required to be able to upload quickly! I usually started with a gentle warning, followed by a slightly more serious one and finally the OSW.... that usually did the trick, at least in any situations I was involved in.... :)
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Originally posted by Gman
Where do you draw the line is my only question.
Well, we usually ignored exclamations that people made in the heat of the moment, for the most part, and only really got involved if the arena was becoming disrupted by someone continuously mouthing off obscenities. It could be a fine line sometimes, but we were very well trained and usually tried not to jump in too quickly.Heck, guys like Leftfoot say WTF, or OMG, or BS every time they get shot down nearly, it's virtually a trademark of the more colorfull guys in the arena, but we ALL KNOW what these abbreviations mean. Even Hitech's squad name could fall into this category. Where is the line drawn?
Most of these would have been ignored in AW - like you say, they are trade-marks.... :)
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Originally posted by SirLoin
I nominate Flossy!...:)
LOL! :D
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"Fuggin Retard" is "foul"?
Holy Anal High, that takes the cake.
I do wish I could put ZeroPing on permanent squelch though for what it's worth. I'd even chip in $20 to buy that bore a AOL chat account to save the buffer bandwidth.
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Originally posted by Creamo
"Fuggin Retard" is "foul"?
Holy Anal High, that takes the cake.
I think what most folks object to is unrelenting behavior - behavior designed to disrupt channel 1/2.
curly
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I'm sure they do but I thought someone was having a spasm about crude language. Neither of which I condone, but I can't say I care much about it either.
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Well disregarding Vossie and Wulfie's domestic dispute..
I used to cuss all the time on squad chan and RW until HB really yelled at me to get me to quit it before I corrupted his daughter :)
Lesson learned.
Therefore:
I nominate HB to be the new arena babysitter!
I dont mind the people who get nailed and type out a random 'diddly' on chan 1. As long as it ends there.
Morons who flame on should be muted. I dont feel like having to squelch 1 either cuz I like the open banter, but it also sucks seeing half the whiney squeaking and name calling on it.
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Originally posted by AKcurly
Some time ago, HTC did have player-monitors, guys with the authority to eject participants. At the time, I thought "nah, that's not good." Well, I would like to change my mind.
They did away with the jerks... erm, monitor types? When did this happen? One of them muted me about a week ago.
And they never had the power to eject players, only to mute them for 10minutes at a time.
Life in AH gets real interesting when one of them who doesn't like you had a bad day.
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never heard a word that bothered me. I would rather censor moronic, dishonest and insipid out of conversations but... probly not possible. I sure don't want the job in any case.
lazs
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HTC could fix the language probem real easy. They could just prevent foul offensive words from being sent through the server. Could even happen at the User end of the software so the Host would not be affected.
However, for some weird reason they perfer the words get broadcast then they "mute" you???
I got muted for 10 min the other day for saying "roadkill" ? LOL
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Originally posted by MrWulf
Voss..put the crack pipe down, your brain is shot. Very seldom do I comment about warps, never have i said anything about ping counts, and when I do it's a very simple 'check your connection' and as for voice...Im seldom on local, usually on squad. Why don't you just grow up, change countries, or just plain disappear..this thread is dead....Ohh and i stand corrected, you are a tard not a dweeb, thnx for reminding me.
This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Wulf demonstrates here that he lacks the civility to control himself in any environment. He has had time to cool down, think things through, and reconsider before typing such childish comments. This is precisely the type of personality that ruins online gaming.
A lot more people are against profanity then you know, Wulf. Far from being dead, this subject could be significant in the continued growth of Aces High. Will we, as participants in this community, allow this trend to continue? Or, do we cull the weeds now? In the past the community has always chosen to clean things up.
Just so you know, I roll film on every sortie. AHVoice is captured along with the film. I have, on two occasions, had my films ruined by you. Once, you were yelling at me trying to tell me what to do, and how to do it (killing GV's, as if I need the help), and the second time you vented quite vociferously about getting hit by a single shell and exploding. So, your statement as quoted above is false. There was another time, when I got a capture just seconds ahead of you, but I wasn't rolling film. Your action at that point would have gotten you banned immediately had it been witnessed by any of the staff at HTC. Your behaviour appears to be repetitive in nature, so it's just a matter of time before someone sees it and pushes the button.
I won't sweat the individuals, from this point on, but this language issue is far from over. Especially, when you consider the implications of AHVoice and the effect it has on the two week visitors. If, we can't police ourselves, then we are doomed to even more vulgarity and childishness in the future. In that event features like permanent squelch, or limited comms will become even more of a requisite.
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Muting deserved IMO.
Do you really think words like that should be broadcast over channel 1? And you obviously said it more than once since the first time would get you a warning.
And another thing....why should HTC spend valuable time that could be used for things like a P61 on doing something stupid like configuring their server to stop curse words before they get broadcast. The language filter works great for the way its designed. I think it should be up to the individual to police himself and decide whether or not having the whole arena needs to see him cuss.
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i didnt do it i SWEAR!!!
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just my thoughts on this:
Profanities as a whole are harmless and I enjoy reading the text buffer as people are raving at each other but i'm a very laid back kind of guy and dont take offence easily.
'BUT' dont forget that we are a multinational community and there are subtle differences in meaning from country to country.
ex:
when I was travelling ( i'm a surfer ) some of my Ozzy and Kiwi friends used the word 'roadkill' as a positive word'
ie. 'that was roadkill!' - meaning the move I pulled while surfing was GOOD!'
I took offence the first time I heard this, because from where i'm from we use the word 'roadkill' as a negative.
Just pic your words carefully, and dont think you can be rude just because your alone miles away from the guy your slating, even the lowly word 'Dweeb' can cause alot of offence.
I never swear in public, but I'll swear as much as I like around friends.
Aces high is public so dont use bad language.
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You guys are big boys aren't you.. Can't you handle it yourself?? If someone is making rude comments with foul language.. Which everyone HAS at some time, due to anger, just squlech them. "Fuggin"... how can that bother you? But i do understand if you hear someone making racial comments to speak up about it. but us whining about "fuggin" and all those other beat around words isn't going to do much, cause theres to many people that use them. Actually, a few of you guys i hear crying on here have personally flung foul language/Racial comments at ME, i am not crying?
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I think Curly captured the issue quite well in his post (below).
Often some players will get upset and post a profanity. The other players may accept it without comment or tell the person to clean it up, that's their perogative. But if the person doesn't comply and become disruptive, HTC could have someone available to warn that person and eject him if needed.
This is how a game community can be self policing. If the players don't mind some profanity, they can have it that way. But if players don't wish to see it, they shouldn't have to. And they certainly shouldn't face abuse if they complain.
All that is needed is for HTC to provide a backup for the players (a Game Assistant). I assume this is done to some extent now, but there is not always someone available and their presence should be known. If the players' complaints aren't justified, the Game Assistant can suggest they chill and squelch the person. And when things are going well, the Game Assistants can help new players, answer question or tell players where they can go to get help. To prevent Game Assistants from abusing their power, they need to be carefully selected and monitored.
Flossy was one of these and she was very successful at it. Her primary ability was in the respect players had for her... she seldom needed to do more than remind a player to behave. In almost all cases the player appologized and behaved.
An occasional squelch is ok when things get a bit crusty, but when arena disruption occurs, one needs to squelch the entire channel to get away from the mess. No player should be expected to give up the use of a channel because of some jerk trying to cause trouble. A language filter does work to some extent, but we have seen how players get around it, and no filter can eliminate all offensive language. Much of the worst language isn't profain at all but otherwise abusive, such as racial hate. And arena disruption can occur from players ragging on each other even though no profanity is used.
grizzly
Originally posted by AKcurly
For the guys that say "squelch 1," well, for me, that's a problem. Much of the entertainment in Aces High comes from channel 1.
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I would not like HTC to single out profane remarks. Instead, I wish they would attempt to control the disruptive participant.
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I think all guys who state 1) unrelenting profanities, 2)unrelenting obscene remarks (including substitutes) and 3) troll on channel one by making anti-semetic/anti-american/etc remarks should be given a 15-30 minute vacation from Aces High. If they return and persist, give them a 24 hour vacation.
curly
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"cheese!"
This is an example of an expressive phrase that cannot ever be found at fault. Spell it out, "S" "h" "1" "t." As soon as you say it's foul language, people who enjoy the phrase can say "5hit!" Ban that phrase, and soon you see "5h1t." The list goes on and on.
I think online abusiveness should be ignored, or, if necessary, the abuser should be warned and later ejected. Mere expressives like "wtf," "5hit" only harm those who extend the sphere of their puritanical morality to their online interactions; there's got to be something more worthwhile in life to complain about than these sorts of phrases.
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voss your tone at the time to the guy was condecending and more anoying then what he did.
He said one thing..
fuggin dweeb or something like that.
and you pounced on him hollier then thow and turned it into the 30 minute extravaganza that it was. The guy lost his temper and you seemed to be trying to goad him into saying worse.
Poor example to pounce on about profanity. Its still not a big deal. You were more anoyoying then him. And now you dredge it up here.
Its still a non issue.
one little fuggin dweeb rolling by in the buffer is not the end of the world. You were bored of flying I guess and tried to make it the end of the world.
I am all for a person to monitor and punt.
I hope they have more sense then you about it though.
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count me in the crowd that dislikes the epletives (and subs). (I am also guilty of slipping one out on a bad night in AH, if there can be a bad night:))Why does it bother me? Is it because I am overly sensitive? Is it because I have thre young boys that are around when I am OL with AH?
No, its my own values and morals. this topic wouldnt even been up for debate a few years ago. That type of language used in a public enviroment was not accepted. Now people say, its just words, they dont mean anything, dont be so sensitive, bla...
A little courtesy and restraint would go a long way. I am afraid that will not happen, and I am hoping that HTC will establish some sort of safegaurd against it.
curly
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Pongo, you are defending indefensible behaviour, and it's out of control. I've been online all afternoon and within any two minute segment you can catch this trash in the buffer. It's way past time to stop it.
Your sense of time is way off, bud. I was on the last 10% of a Tiffy's fuel, and that won't go thirty minutes no matter how you slice it. Condescending? I asked him to stop, I told him a little thought before typing in the buffer would go along ways toward tempering his mood, and I said 'stop it now,' and 'HTC does eject people for this behaviour.' Immediately, you jumped in to tell me to shutup.
I'm not likely to listen to you, Pongo. You're wrong.
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If you want to curse and use the ef word or others that are even worse when with your friends, that's your business.
You have no right to do so in public or online where others have no choice but to listen to you. But I suppose the temptation to spout off in front of a captive audience is too great for some to resist.
Oxymoron seen at the start of an R-rated movie: Adult Language.
Regards, Shuckins
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Originally posted by Gman
Heck, guys like Leftfoot say WTF, or OMG, or BS every time they get shot down nearly, it's virtually a trademark of the more colorfull guys in the arena, but we ALL KNOW what these abbreviations mean. Even Hitech's squad name could fall into this category. Where is the line drawn? Only at attempts to circumvent the chat censor, or will abbreviations count soon as well.
Excuse me?:mad:
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Originally posted by ArceBandit at 6
You Americans cant use bad launguage the way your suposed to ,in Ireland we use it like this EG.
get the f**k out of my way.
what the f**k are u at.
what the f**k did u call me.
its f**ked eg (broken).
im f**ked eg (tired).
f**k eg (shock).
f**k it anyway.
oh f**k.
We dont say f**k you, or f**k off.
look i,ve attached a picture to cut the tension
This is exactly what we are talking about goof ball.:rolleyes:
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Any one get that message from the unknow god?
"Zeroping be careful"
AH!!!!!!!! well use that more often.. im sure people will be more carefull (as u see above) when they get this message, i know this would be a pain in the bellybutton to do every time some one says "fuc" "wtf" "prettythang" and any other words that makes you people uncomfortable, or just squelch 1
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I do not use profane language and while I try not to get offended if someone uses it around me I do prefer it if they don't.
Common courtesy implies that if someone is uncomfortable with the way you behave, you try to behave differently. Continually cursing on channel 1 is a lack of common courtesy, pure and simple.
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This thread floats to the top still.
Guys it's simple. Ah isn't here to bottle feed you, the responsibilty for what comes from your speakers and text falls on - guess who? - you. Out of the 50 Britnay spears getting _f_d by whomever video emails you get every day (which is where most of you poor freaks get viruses on your AOL machines btw) - when did it become HiTech's job to police thing?
It ain't
Do I wish it was? Do I wish they had someone who's only function was to police the rediculous nonsense of pre- teenagers? This is just not reasonable.
Hence The squelch command was invented.
I do however wish very much for a persistent squelch list. In this, and this alone, I sing the same song.
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Some language has no place here... but where do you draw the line? I got warned for fediddleers, now fediddleers is not a 'sub' of the 'ef' word, it is a seperately recognised word (refer Father Ted for various definitions and uses).
Not only that but in NZ its accepted 'daytime' language by the NZ Broadcasting Standards Authority.
Do implied explitives count?
As someone rightly pointed out - FUBAR, WTF, etc are all implied.
What about banana? Do we ban him? It may not be a common term in the US but in the UK, Ireland, Scotland, NZ, Australia etc its a very 'specific' term.
Theres a very clear need to limit some language. Theres also a very clear need for some people to BUTT out. If you tell someone else how to talk, expect a backlash. If you tell someone else to limit their language AND have the authority of HTC then fair enough.
The squelch command was implemented for a reason. If you do not have the powers invested in you by Hitech then use squelch.
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Orel is currently teaching me to curse in czeck... but I try to keep it on Squad channel :)
An occational "wtf" doesn't bother me (hey, I say it too sometimes!), but some poeple just keep going on for some reason...
I vote for "Rude" & his bro "Vulgar" to be moderators :D
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Some language has no place here... but where do you draw the line? I got warned for fediddleers, now fediddleers is not a 'sub' of the 'ef' word, it is a seperately recognised word (refer Father Ted for various definitions and uses).
...
Theres a very clear need to limit some language. Theres also a very clear need for some people to BUTT out. If you tell someone else how to talk, expect a backlash. If you tell someone else to limit their language AND have the authority of HTC then fair enough.
The squelch command was implemented for a reason. If you do not have the powers invested in you by Hitech then use squelch.
Vulcan, as I see it, the problem isn't profanity, it's disruptive behavior. Most of us don't care if someone types "WTF" when he experiences something inexplicable. But, if WTF is followed by 5 minutes of whining and complaining on channels 1/2, then it's disruptive.
It's a judgement call, one that most mature adults can easily make.
curly
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Originally posted by Voss
Just so you know, I roll film on every sortie. AHVoice is captured along with the film. I have, on two occasions, had my films ruined by you.
Good lord, get a life :rolleyes:
I'd have no problem with some arena moderator type folks to squash the irritating banter. Heck, I'd probably get my share of warnings :) Self-policing is fine...but telling someone who pays the same fees as you how to act online might not illicit the response you want. Just my 2 pfennig
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Well... if you can't make those remarks then what is the fun in being a non religious white male who lives in America?
lazs
"Originally posted by lazs2
racial/cultural/religious/sexist insults are the best kind. It is allways someone who isn't of the racial/cultural/religious/sex who is the one who get's "insulted". self rightious little dicks IMO. Nice to get em out in the open.
lazs
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I might not be of the racial/cultural/religious/sex that is being harassed over Channel 1. But If I read something that is truly wrong and hateful, I will be insulted.
Maybe we need some Main Arena Moderators?
__________________
412th FS "Braunco Mustangs" "
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Actually Voss, it seems Pongo is more interested in trying to find a way to show you your over reaction than in trying to mount a defense for Wulf.
If I was online when this 'incident' happened I totally missed it, but from what I've read in this thread you need a valium brother. Maybe a few. Next thing ya know you'll be going ballistic over me calling someone a "freaking dweeb".
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So profanity on channel 1 is the new hot PC issue huh? I've seen alot more stuff disrupt channel 1 than profanity. Like a couple nights ago a couple freaking idiots engaged in political discussions. Got so bad that a few of my squaddies (including myself) squelched channel 1 because it was interferring with our ability to communicate. Yeah, I reckon it could use a little community self policing, but before ya go whippin out yer badges think a little.
Most of the times I've seen profanity become a disruptive issue is when a few people get offensive towards whomever they are trying to help "police". These folks trying to help actually cause the disruption because they lack tact in thier approach and they inevitably offend/piss off the 'offender'. This sets off back and forth exchanges between the interested parties until someone gets too tired of the exchange to continue it (5-30minutes) or a jerk.. erm 'monitor type' ends it for them with mutes. Usually whoever uttered the profanity is muted even though he wasn't the one who caused the disturbance (no disturbance if others hadna twisted his tail).
Give ya an example. I think it was sometime yesterday I let slip an expletive or two on channel 1. Voss promptly says something to me about it on channel 1. The manner used to deliver his message just totally torqued me off. As I am preparing a nice, acidic response to Voss about cleaning up his people skills before trying to help others, my 5yr old daughter comes running up and shoves a piece of paper in front of my face saying "Look daddy, I drew a picture of our family!" I forgot all about mr. man and his tactless ego trip, and continued on my merry way, happy as a clam, killing people as I came across them.
It's not just the folks who cuss on channel 1 who need to engage the brain before engaging the keyboard. All you 'good samaratan' types who want to help the community police itself need to be more vigilant about thinking before typing. You get standoff-ish, offensive, whatever when you ask someone to please knock if off and YOU start a disruption that never would have happened if you'd ignored the person.
Then there are some that just disrupt everything w/o any needed external stimuli. And, yes, I have fallen into this category a time or two, and I readily admit it. Sometimes nothing but a timeout (mute/eject/etc) will stop it. 'Course, when one of these gets going they're usually fed by folks goading them on into saying more/worse.
Course I guess there are a rare few who'll continue on even if you're tactful in asking them to knock it off. They'll do it just to irritate ya. Best thing for that is everyone ignore'em, don't give'em 6calls, and don't dive in to clear'em. Hopefully they'll get the message.
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On the monitors... so far as I know they're still around. Maybe they were all stripped of their power. Which would be a good thing, as that bunch needed some serious policing. Someone lets slip a 'roadkill' after an extremely intense fight and gets insta-muted. Now ya got someone pissed off and waiting on the timer to count down and go off. I know, been there and done it. Timer counted down, I could talk, and I let loose on channel 1. Was I being disruptive and deserving another mute or a .eject? Thinking back to the incident (cause it's been a pretty good while back), yes I did deserve a mute/boot. Did I get muted/booted? Nope, I guess because I wasn't using any profanity in my tirade.
Course, in some situations these monitors can't make a good, informed decision. Log in mid-tirade, can't scroll up the readio buffer in AH, so they've only got like 15lines of text (usually fast moving at that) to sort it out and hope they get the right person. I was a sysop on an irc net for 3years, and I'm an admin on another forum like this one, and it's not always easy to make the right call even when ya can go back and read everything that lead to an incident.
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I swear, what a buncha namby pambies. Have you weenies forgotten that all you gotta do is squelch the offending party. Y'all remind me of a buncha old wimmin. The only thing missin so far is some lamer whinin about kids readin th text buffer over thier shoulder.
And yes voss you do aggravate the situation. Who appointed you language police around here?
HTC has the perfect answer already in place. No TOS cops, no officious little twerps with an axe to grind and powers to abuse. Every one of us has the ability to end anything we personally find offensive with just a few key strokes.
I never cuss on th text buffer but I do enjoy a bout of word warrior now and then and if I can drive my opponent to a frothing at th mouth expletive filled tirade then I ROFL and count a win. You do the same thing voss. The difference is I ain't whinin about it .
Grow up.
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The language is really annoying but more annoying is the acute lack of creativity that it leads to. When you allow folks to get away with just calling someone a squealing retard it doesn't force them to be creative with their insults and allow all of us on channel 1 to get a good laugh. So all of you squealing retards that have taken 3 steps backwards on the text buffer evolutionary chain ....clam up!!! You are using up bandwidth that the truly creative insulters could be using!!!!
Avid
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Been a squadie of Wulf's for a couple of years now and I gotta say he's one of the most laid back guy's here, a few jokes on vox or buffer now and then but normally ya dont even know he's there. Now if we were talking about that Farggin Icehole DrDea....:)
Shamus
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Originally posted by Virage
I would like HTC to publish a standard Code of Conduct that could be enforced with community peer pressure, account suspension and banning.
A well publicized, clear and simple Code of Conduct is the first step in prevention. It provides a baseline of exceptible behavior that others can be judged by; but more importantly, serves as a positive reinforcement of what behavior is to be expected within the MA.
The Terms of Service agreement is not a Code of Conduct but it could include one, and should imo.
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If the above is said to be true then Sim Pilots (Cockface, Nuttsack and others) should be banned too. Don't just pick and choose who gets to stay.
Personally, I laugh my butt off when someone cusses. I will usually squelch channel 1 anyways. If someone else cusses that is their perogative. Usually they're so pissed off that it sometimes fills them with anger and throws them off of their game a bit.
Masher
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One of the more entertaining aspects of the AH community is this neverending source of wit and mirth. Some people are just LOL funny. Various exchanges of banter and humour have left me laughing so hard I simply couldnt fly.
/me hits autopilot....grabs towel to clean up "beer shot thru nose" while laughing mess.
We are all having fun right? When it degenerates into a cussing/insult match instead of playing AH, I have to question why these few people are even in here.
If they just want to curse and insult other players, isnt that what lame AOL chat rooms are for?
I have been involved with CounterStrike and TFC community for many years. I have been an Admin for various servers most of that time. Unfortunately CS/TFC has been fully reduced to 3 basic words and or insults......... diddly you....Youre a studmuffin.....Suck my dick. And of course the myriad of unimmaginative variations of those three usually including a reference to a sister or mother with the occasional animal reference.
Many servers now run scripts that help prevent much of this language and repeat offenders are often kicked from the server or banned.
Offensive names are also a problem. Players joining a server with the name studmuffinkiller or Nigg3rB@sh3r or Cumguzzler or 8===) ~~ should be told to get a new name and be kicked from the server.
I dont think AH attracts the typical 10-12 year old haxor punk that CS and TFC does. AH seems to have a higher maturity level and most of these issues are not a problem.
I dont think the problem is the WTF, BS, NFW, OMFG.
I dont think the problem is the shiites, arse, shagged, banana.
I dont think the occassional " Lets bomb the toejam out of the Bish" or the "Fuggin spit dweeb mofo's" isnt that bad either.
Brief exchanges on Channel 1 about non AH topics isnt really a problem. For example....is that new movie good?, last nights Simpsons/South Park. Logging due to wife. Beer.
To use those words, acronyms, h@x0r, or mispels to intentionaly insult or direct profanities at a specific people, team or player is the issue.
Attempting to solves the mideast crisis or similiar issue of the day on channel 1 is an issue.
In AW usually a few people telling someone to "watch the language" or to "clean it up" was enough . If not, there was usually a moderator/admin that would manage the situation.
My father and myself both flew in AW for may years and were both Admins.
If someone would not cooperate, kicking them from the arena usually got their attention.
Maybe a few admins are in order.
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My sense of time is bang on. You were ranting for far more then 5 minutes and what the guy said was not a big deal, if he left it at that. Which I think he would have if you handnt attacked him.
1 hour after that somone said something a bit more expicit on channel one and HT just said "so and so launguage...."
and the guy appologized and stopped. I dont think this wulfy guy would have said another thing. I have never seen him rant on channel one. Has anyone here? Maybe Im missing somthing.
But you handled this poorly. and then you came here looking for support. And you dont have mine.
Pick your fuggen crusade targets more carefully.
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My dad was going to start a subscription, but decided against it because of all the babies around.
My dad flew under the name
SWPTWNG
One potential subscriber gone, completely due to the whining. He thought it was a great game, but couldn't stand the immaturity of some.
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The often insipid chat in the text buffer can be annoying, but I can ignore it with dignity. With the advent of AHvoice, there have been too many occasions were I've had to vsquelch to avoid my granddaughter picking up some choice language. The only problem being of course, that by the time I squelch the offender, she's already gotten an ear full of trash.
In truth, it doesn't happen all that often but when it does it can really light my fire. I'd have to agree with monitors with squelch/eject capability. I expect the problem to become more prevalent as the player base grows. There ARE immature illiterates playing who have no better means of expressing themselves, and who will do so at will.
LLYR
US$.02
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It is a very simple to stop the cursing on the main channel...
1. Agree on a data dictionary so to speak of curse words
2. Set the policy
3. when a player uses foul language he is locked off for the night
A cooling off period so to speak from the time of the offense till a determined period...
After a few nights of being locked off, bad mouth players will either adjust or leave for good...
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What's so freaking hard about typing:
".squelch 1"
".squelch "
What's wrong with you language whiners?
You got watermelon for brains?
Wait wait... I forgot... we all wearing skirts and panty hose now.... cuz we are FPCPWP: frigging polically correct panty waste rutabagas!
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Well moonjuice, that does not work with the proximity vox. My son and I were flying yesterday (he's 6) and someone was using the F word on the proximity vox. I had to turn his vox off, which he disliked because even though we're in the same room, he enjoys talking to me over his head-set anyways (you'd have to have a 6 yr old to understand that! LOL)
Anyway, people have to remember that ages tend to run from 6- 80 years old in Aces high, not everyone wants to listen to the spew.
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I assure you that I am the farthest away from PC you can get. I am downright fundamental, and I am a bill-paying, tax-paying, child fathering man that still doesnt want to hear someone curse because they lack a decent vocabulary.
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Hey Snort (
Bro)
I have a 10 mo. old son. Here's how I stand on the WHOLE issue. Squad channel, If you want to cuss go ahead (most of your squaddies will refrain from cussing if they know that you have a little one, I would hope so, you know?, or may not allow it for the little ears of the various homes) What I mean by the squad is that this should be your only "cussing channel", keep it amongst squaddies, because we don't care!!. Country channel, you are going to have a bit more people listening, show some class. you see where this is going.
NOW, Channel 1. If you get shot down or crash, an expletive follows (I'm sorry but I slip now and then, shruug it off, and reup). On Channel 1, there should be no reason AT ALL to publicly flame someone for shooting you down. Furthermore, when you flog the dead horse, it gets annoying and you just hope the whiner logs off. Sound familiar to anyone?
Masher
P.S. - Ammo
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MoonJuice: you make my point perfectly.
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What some people are missing here is the fact that each and every instance of crude language on anything but your squad channel just adds to the pile and the cumulative effect will be that HTC will have to spend time and dollars to correct the problem. No matter if you do it on a regular basis or not the effect will be the same.
So, each and every person that even just slips with the odd vulgarity is guilty of slowing down the pace of improvements in AH and I feel that is the truly sad part of spewing vulgarities, no matter how masked they may be, because it, in the long run, will affect all of us.
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Masherbrum, Ammo, points made clearly!
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Originally posted by MoonJuice
What's so freaking hard about typing:
".squelch 1"
".squelch "
What's wrong with you language whiners?
You got watermelon for brains?
Wait wait... I forgot... we all wearing skirts and panty hose now.... cuz we are FPCPWP: frigging polically correct panty waste rutabagas!
IMO, this is typical of those who cause the problem. Nobody should be expected to condone your sense of what's acceptable, and no one should be expected to give up the use of channel one because you're having a brain fart.
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Don't be an enabler.
One of the fastest and surest ways to teach your "little ones" what not to do is to make a big deal out of anything you don't want them to do.
If some one says Fnck! Don't go on 30 minute tiraids, make message board threads about that one word in a chat channel, and then jump up and down screaming and shouting about it. Nothing says to a child "here is something really offensive to do when you want to be offensive" like making a big show about it being offensive.
Right now all I see is the makings of a wonderful witch hunt wherein us people who ignore channel 1 by default, not by .squeltch, end up penalized when the one day we type "BS" we end up on "vacation".
Right now I know what to do if I want to grief Voss and put a lil ruin in his day, I'm sure others know as well. Why open yourself up like that?
Play the game. Play it right. Play it well.
Lead by example.
etc.
Fight the good fight and peace be with you,
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CSDMMNT
I dont see why I should agree to the use of curse words to appease you rather than trying to spare my 6 year old son who is learning to play the game from seeing the foul language...
Where in the license agreement for AH does it say adults only?!
And if there was an age limit based on maturity level a few of you would be teetering on the edge!!!!
Moon
Now i understand the term "TROLLing" after reading your post..
T0J0
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Profanity helps Osama. ;)
Seriously, no need for it, can be just as expressive without it.
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Profanity should be disallowed completely in the name of realism. This IS a war sim afterall! In RL combat situations it was common to hear phrases like "Gosh, I think they just launched a SAM!" and "Gee whiz, there seem to be some ethnic locals of Communist background at the perimeter!" and "Hurry quick to the bunker, fellas, I fear an incoming rocket is imminent!". :D
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ok... enuff of this rant +)
If you see someone go off on another player with trash that u feel is beyond the call, SAY SOMETHING to him!!
The rest of you... SUPPORT the guy asking the offender to clean it up.
This worked in aw.. it can work here
if just one guy asks someone to clean it up, the offender maybe spurred on .. if 4-5 guys say "Hey, watch yer mouth"... the arena will be much cleaner within weeks
SKurj
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"IMO, this is typical of those who cause the problem."
Crude langauge is the topic of this discussion - so why you saying my most of typical?
The only word I said in that post which could be considered crude was "rutabagas".
The rest was implied.
You reaction is based upon it's tone, not the words.
The tone was offensive.
You can filter words, you can't filter tone.
My point?
You can't police tone.
Better things to worry about than policing the little children with potty mouths.
The best way to police them is to put them on ignore and not
to respond to their garbage.
Don't have to squelch channel 1, just squelch the offenders.
They want the attention, that's why they do it.
Be an adult, don't give it to them. don't leacture, don't advise, don't talk to them.... don't give them any attention - don't actknowledge what they did - just squelch them.
Don't need chat police either.
If you guys knew me, you know I never talk on channel 1. First thing I do when I log in is squelch 1 - not because of the BS talk, because it's too much text scrolling by.
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Better yet say that when the offender spouts off everyone in ear shot, or I guess it would be eye shot, send him a private message to shut up. I am assuming that when his connection gets bombarded by who knows how many private messages at one time, it may have an ill effect on that connection. If so it would be justice served.
Avid
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Originally posted by MoonJuice
"IMO, this is typical of those who cause the problem."
Crude langauge is the topic of this discussion - so why you saying my most of typical?
You implied it was alright for you to use vulgarity, and that's what I responded to. I have no knowledge that you do. But as to your point, squelching a player doesn't squelch everyone who responds to him. And, although you don't use channel one, others may want to and not be held hostage by someone causing trouble. There is no excuse or purpose for public vulgarity that would justify using it in spite of those who object to it.
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Originally posted by T0J0
CSDMMNT
I dont see why I should agree to the use of curse words to appease you rather than trying to spare my 6 year old son who is learning to play the game from seeing the foul language...
Where in the license agreement for AH does it say adults only?!
And if there was an age limit based on maturity level a few of you would be teetering on the edge!!!!
Moon
Now i understand the term "TROLLing" after reading your post..
T0J0
Tojo...I started it off by saying don't be an enabler. Also I said Lead by Example ... will say this slowly so you understand it;
D o - n o t - u s e - v u l g a r - l a n g u a g e. (this is leading by example)
D o - n o t - c a l l - a t t e n t i o n - t o - t h e - u s e - o f - v u l g a r - l a n g u a g e. (this is leading by example and not being an enabler to its issue)
As for age ... how is AH paid for? Credit Card 99.9% of the accounts if not 100% I'd assume.
Lastly, teach children good morals and ethics. Teach them to know what vulgar language is and what it means to use it. Don't call attention to its use at any time so you don't give validation to its use. I've got a nice daughter who understands what vulgar language is and I know doesn't use it because I saw to her education about the matter. How do I know? I ask her. I listen to her interactions with her friends. I ask her teachers.
This thread calls attention to its use, thus, for me, it validates the use of it. I would wager the use of vulgar language will pickup do to the amount of attention ya'll give those who use it. Which means those "kids" who are too young for the language but old enough to surf this board and read these threads are getting the wrong impression imho.
Carry on ... I hope not.
Cheerios,
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why don't we just gang up on them and shoot the f**king uncouth bas**rds down?
As I heard once, maybe even read on the AHBB, "Profantity is the crutch of ignorant M-Fr's"
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Three things will solve this:
1.) Bring persistent squelch to AH (I hate typing ".squelch 1" everytime I log on anyhow)
2.) Add the ability to squelch range vox.
3.) Those of you who cannot stand to read other's off color remarks, just grow some skin and lighten up. You'll enjoy life and this GAME more that way anyhow!
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
why don't we just gang up on them and shoot the f**king uncouth bas**rds down?
As I heard once, maybe even read on the AHBB, "Profantity is the crutch of ignorant M-Fr's"
Gosh I guess I have no class whatsoever anymore, one second read I had to laugh. :(
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Its got worse since HTC open its doors to bananas ville two many morons flying in AH now. Put price back up and get some of the idiots out. AH is a good game just getting bad due to the amount of morons that fly in the game now.
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Originally posted by NHMadmax
Its got worse since HTC open its doors to bananas ville two many morons flying in AH now. Put price back up and get some of the idiots out. AH is a good game just getting bad due to the amount of morons that fly in the game now.
Not sure what you mean by "since HTC open its doors to bananas ville"? I certainly don't think putting the price back up will do any good at all - there are just as many idiots who have plenty of money, and there are decent people who can't afford to pay the current price, never mind a higher one. Seen this argument many times during my AW days, and I never agreed with it then. Putting the price up will not get rid of idiots.
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I've been flying w/Wulf now for ayear or so. He seldom if ever goes off... or for that matter says much at all. But it looks like he did. Please have mercy on his misguided soul. He has gone and proven that oppps.... he's human, got emotional and had a brief freak attack. A attack that would of been pretty short if he was simply left alone to cool down....
NOW I MYSELF..YES ME... the little cute xBAT has said a choice word or two on AH voice and typed it in text buffer. Vati66 has made sure I STFU on AH Voice if I do go off and my high moral up bringing polices me on 1 (<---some sarcasm here). AND YES I have been on the other side as well where I said something smartass to a guy that was PO'd and got into a spewing contest that we both had to kiss and make up afterwards. He was a guy I never had any problem with and vice versia.
What I'm getting at is Wulfy..or xBAT or Voss or whoever will eventualy spew something... I will I'm sure. I just think people should look at the other 98 PERCENT of the time they're on-line
and maybe throw THAT into the equation as well.
Anyway... I'm in Wulfy's corner.
xBAT
(http://ubbsmile.free.fr/smileys/bart-moon.gif)
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"Three things will solve this:
1.) Bring persistent squelch to AH (I hate typing ".squelch 1" everytime I log on anyhow)
2.) Add the ability to squelch range vox.
3.) Those of you who cannot stand to read other's off color remarks, just grow some skin and lighten up. You'll enjoy life and this GAME more that way anyhow!"
yep... nothin to it.
lazs
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Hmmmmm... such a hot topic with such a silent response from HTC. I sent an e-mail to them about a month ago asking if anyone ever watches the text buffer and I got the same response this thread has received... nada :confused:
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HTC could fix the language probem real easy. They could just prevent foul offensive words from being sent through the server. Could even happen at the User end of the software so the Host would not be affected.
Ultima Online has a good approach regarding cussing/language. UO has a user option to filter profanity, so if you chose to, you can have it on or off on your end.
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Originally posted by NHMadmax
"Its got worse since HTC open its doors to bananas ville two many morons flying in AH now. Put price back up and get some of the idiots out. AH is a good game just getting bad due to the amount of morons that fly in the game now. "
It was alot worse last year when the price was almost twice as much . I would just cringe in the main ..
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Originally posted by Voss
A lot more people are against profanity then you know,
And more than anyone here will ever know. The people bothered the most by it
1) squelch 1 so you never see them tell someone to shut up
2) do not post to these boards cause it's usually worse here than in the game, and
3) are usually the first ones to go somewhere else to play a game with adults instead of children
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Originally posted by Voss
He didn't mask it well at all, and then today one of my own team mates wouldn't stop either.
Makes you wonder where they hide their brains.
Uhm Voss, i don't think he was talking to you :D
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I vote for a "squelch range" option. That way, every aspect will be covered so that each individual may do what is appropriate to his tastes.
What really is at issue here is exactly what is considered offensive. How can anyone possibly hope to satisfy everyone all of the time? Quite simply, you can't. What you might find offensive, I may not. What I find offensive, you may not. HTC has done what it can to help with the inclusion of a word filter, but as has been pointed out, there will always be a way around such measures.
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Originally posted by lazs2
fighting would be better than chatting. kills in the buffer would be better than chat in the buffer.
lazs
exactly....
"shut up and fly"
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Well count your blessing here in WARBIRDS only Trainers and cm's are allowed to swear.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
As I heard once, maybe even read on the AHBB, "Profantity is the crutch of ignorant M-Fr's"
I much prefer, "vulgarity is the first refuge of the mediocre."
:D
personally i see no big deal about the occasional naughty words slipping out in the heat of the moment - as someone mentioned, text buffer scrolls by so fast anyway, in a sec or 3 it's gone, even faster if you simply have 3 lines up.
i find it ironic, in some ways that people who might feel offended by the correct forms of profanity, have no problem with masked profanity, i.e. chit, fug, dayum, beech, etc etc.. we all still know what they mean and automatically convert them in our heads.
i agree it's more the channel disruption, but then... .squelch (whomever, me, for example :) ) works quite nicely.
i do agree the level of smack talk can be lacking at times... smack is all part of the game, don't respond if you can't take the heat, simple as that. nothing more funny than seeing whiny babies whining, mooooommmmmmm he called me a fuggen dweeb!!! lol, awwww poor babies.
if you can't take ch1, go fly offline, hell, the ai drones fly better than 95% of ya, anyway, but at least they don't talk back, right?
:rolleyes: