Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on July 13, 2002, 11:06:37 AM
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Cadillac Eldorado
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Prizm
Chrysler Prowler
Lincoln Blackwood
Lincoln Continental
Mercury Cougar
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Pontiac Firebird
Suzuki Esteem
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scuttlebutt intel has it the camaro is supposed to make a return in the near future. Kinda like the new coke, classic coke ploy.
like i said though it's just scuttlebutt
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I hadn't really heard that about the Camaro. I heard it was being discontinued because it could not compete with the Riceboy scene. Something about highschoolers not liking it and therefor 40 year old mid life crisis gents did nto like it... and there went their customer base.
I heard the GTO is making a comeback... and I hope that Pontiac gets it right in regards to outright performance, RWD and overall nastiness. I also hope they get away from the fricking huge plastic nose peices and air scoops that doomed the Firebird.
Its kinda wierd but America just doesn't seem to be to enthralled with the current 2dr sedan selection from the Americas. Honda, Acura and BMW pretty much own the market over here.
I do know that my Mini gets more looks than anything from any of those car companies and any US car company could generate.
Of course, my 71 Blazer gets a good deal of looks too. ;)
AKDejaVu
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Why in the hell are the ricecups so popular there? I can understand their popularity here because of their price but in states they are even more expensive than homemade cars I think. What's wrong with you people?:rolleyes:
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The often weigh less than 3000 lbs and can easily be bumped to over 250-300 hp. On the track the V8s are struggling to compete.
AKDejaVu
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LOL Im 40 got a 98 with t-tops and I like it!
'cept that dang skip shift where you have to reach a certain RPM or it forces you to bypass 2nd and 3rd and drops you into 4th gear. Had it for 4 years now and still not used to it, One of these days I'm gonna remove that feature, one of these days I tellya :)
Heard same about it not being able to compete, was supposed to come back bigger engine different look, but way economy going bigger engine may not sell anymore.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
The often weigh less than 3000 lbs and can easily be bumped to over 250-300 hp. On the track the V8s are struggling to compete.
AKDejaVu
Hell... even a Dodge Neon made it on Hot Rod Magazines top ten list for 2001.
Of course... it was highly modified and capable of doing a quarter mile under nine seconds.
Muscle cars are show cars anymore, not racers.
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Originally posted by mora
Why in the hell are the ricecups so popular there? I can understand their popularity here because of their price but in states they are even more expensive than homemade cars I think. What's wrong with you people?:rolleyes:
Simply put its that I do not mind paying for an automobile that has been built and designed by the Japanese because I feel that it is superior to the products made here is the US... that includes those Japanese design cars that are BUILT here... just not the same quality of workmanship.
This, of course, is my humble opinion and I certainly hope the "USA #1" pom-pom team takes it at that.
Lonz
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Nah,..you are close BT. I think the U.S. automotive industry is finally figuring out you cannot build quality into a car, it has to be designed into the car.
This is where Japan has a huge lead, and many other countries as well.
Let's face it, out country has never been about efficiency when it came to the automobile. We always have taken the sledg-hammer approach to it.
Don't get me wrong, I love my hot rods and you cannot get a hot rod from any country except the U.S. Course, the only hot rod left is the Dodge Viper. The Corvette has lost grace as a hot rod, even though it is still a very nice sports car.
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Lincoln Continental was a classic, but the rest of that list are pretty much useless. Camaro and Firebird are quick, but for the same money I bought a Japanese 4 door sedan that will run the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. I'm not even getting into build quality and reliability...
The biggest problem with US cars (and the industry in general) is the UAW.
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Had a 97 and a 98 Ram Air Firebird. Best cars I've ever owned, hands down, from a list including 300zx turbo, rx7 r1 turbo, Dodge Stealth R/T Turbo, and a Ford Mustang GT.
Hadn't heard that news about GTO, if it's true, that'll be my next ride.
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Dad worked for GM as a UAW member for over 30 years- you ain't lyin'. Unions have their purposes, but that one has become a welfare state for many. Of course, I know many UAW workers that are terrific and dedicated. It's too bad the system protects those that have learned how to best exploit it.
Yes, our teacher unions are crap, too. Many people need to get out of my profession, too.
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Yep Kieran. I worked in a UAW plant and so did my dad and my uncle and some good friends. After our experiences (with the products as well as some of the personnel) I don't think I will ever purchase a UAW-built auto.
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Wanted a convertible,
Looked at Mustang GT, 20 minutes of paperwork to get a testride. Then when the salesman tried to put the top back up, it was off-center by 3 inches! He worked for 5 minutes to close it, but couldn't. I left.
Went to Toyota, salesman asks for my license number, and throws me the keys to an MR2 Spyder. Have fun, he says turning away. I popped the top in 5 seconds and tore up hi-way one for 30 minutes. Back, top goes up in 5 secs again! I bought it.
Politics aside, our cars suck on maintenance/fit/finish. Sad.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Camaro and Firebird are quick, but for the same money I bought a Japanese 4 door sedan that will run the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.
A Camaro with a 5.7 V8?
You're dreaming rice boy :)
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When was the last time Chevrolet made a 5.7 V8 Camaro?
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Monty: Au contraire knuckledragger! My car (Subaru WRX sedan 5MT) will run 5.4 and 14.1 @ 96 bone stock (per Car and Driver). That's well ahead of a V-6 F-body and right there with the LS1 Z28 or T/A.
Camaro SS and T/A with ram air are clearly faster though. But my car is 10k cheaper than either of those and holds 4 adults in comfort.
Sandman: GM has been putting 350's into F-bodies since 1988 or so.
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My bad. Chevrolet put a 5.7 in the Camaro Z28 in 1993-2002. It had a 5.0 between 88 and 92, IIRC.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Suzuki Esteem
Suzuki Esteem?
Ick. :eek:
(http://carpoint.msn.com/merismus/Gallery/c440677a.jpg)
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Whew, Good thing there's no good cars on that list!
:)
eskimo
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Problem with the camaro&firebird was that they walked away from the market that bought them. In the 60's and seventies they were able to be purchased at low-midrange depending on what options you wanted.
Nowadays they start at mid and only go higher! a guy in his twenties is not buying those cars for that much! the start price on camaro's in my area is around $29,000 bone stock with a V6. Ick.
Gone are the days when you bought the stripped out camaro with just the rally and sport package to get the fancy tires and suspension and a V8 for $22,000.
Muscle cars just evolved out of thier niche and deserved to be put down so others could evolve.
Did you see the concept cars up the pipeline for the next 5 years in C&D awhile ago? allot of economy cars with high HP V6's. I even saw a 2 door convertable ala Fiero styling in the works.
About the GTO- please, don't hold your breath. Look at the Monte Carlo when it came back........
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0-60 in who cares... chicks dig it:
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The Mini is cool.
I do want to comment on the Japanese designed vehicle/built in the USA having good design but poor manufactured quality.
I have a 2001 Toyota Tundra 4x4. The engine was built in Japan, but the rest was built in Indiana. I have almost 24,000 miles on it and have not had one single defect. The truck is just as solid and silent as when I drove it off the lot. Everything in it still works perfectly. American workers can build a vehicle just as well as anybody else. It seems that our engineers aren't getting the opportunity to, or cannot, design a reliable vehicle.
At the same time as I bought my Tundra, one of my boss' friends bought a 2001 Ford F150 4x4. At 6,000 miles the drive shaft fell off. Another guy I worked with then described his friend's experience with a 1998 Ford Explorer, bought new in 1998. His friend's Explorer had the tranny fall off at 4,000 miles. The only Ford I have owned was the single biggest piece of crap I have ever had the displeasure of being foisted on me. In terms of repairs it was by far the most expensive vehicle I have ever owned. I will never buy another Ford. For me to buy an American labeled vehicle there would have to be major, major improvements in their quality.
Right now I have no doubts that my next vehicle will be a Toyota.
Toyota rules.
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Hmmm....no loss;)
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Good riddens! :)
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DJV I saw one of those Minis today and they are DOOOOOOOOOOOOPE. :)
If they built that thing with a real motor I would be all over it!
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I posted this before..
Me in 1981 and my everyday driver today:)
(http://www.graphixone.net/images/81.jpg)
NUTTZ
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Here's the article:
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38788&a=a&bt=gto
To see what it looks like you can go to the Holden website.
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Better to read about the GTO (http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/passion/news/main.jsp?source=ponthome) at Pontiac (http://www.pontiac.com).
AKDejaVu
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And these still being builded :
LOL
THE WINNER
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Dayum NUTTZ! Purty! I always thought the 66 GTO was one of the best looking cars ever made.
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You know-
I NEVER thought I would say this to Deja Vu....
but. thank you.
Thank you thank you.
You know it is amazing- it took under 90 seconds for my wife to decide to rework the budget so I can pre-order one when the chance comes.
I had no idea they were doing this- it completely blindsided me.
I dearly hope it comes out under $40,000 as the GTP had a few in that range.
Turns out the decision 3 years ago to sell my dream project (a 1967 GTO with a 454 added in 1994) gave me more than enough leverage to win any arguements!
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Uhmmmm.......Skuzzy.......... ... thats a '65 :)
BTW the cigarette lighter still works after 37 years:)
I also have a 65' Convertable I'm going to restore, I'm shopping for a new house and It better have a 2 car garage:)
I Hated the 66' of all the years, 67' is probably the best known. 64' the lights were side to side, 65' lights were up and down, and started the "hidden" tail lights. I even owned the 74' GTO, was a Pontiac Ventura beefed up, what a rocket!!!!! And just like a rocket it had ZERO handling!!!
My dad had a 62' Catalina Now That puppy is one BAD MOFO, the lines are so pretty, yet it had a 4 speed and the ever so rare Pontiac 421. some rare engines of the top Muscle car breed,409,421,396( oval ports), pontiac ram air 400, of course the HEMI cuda, the 351 (Cleveland) anyone of these motors are welcome under my hood.
The engines that NEVER die, 327,318, 350!!!( I'd throw in the 389/326 if it wasn't for the Plastic coated timing gears)
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Dayum NUTTZ! Purty! I always thought the 66 GTO was one of the best looking cars ever made.
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My uncle had a 67 GTO. It was stolen and they found it on blocks 2 weeks later. Too bad... it was sweet.
I've always been a bit partial to the 66 Impala SS. I just love the lines on that car. I have a friend who's father-in-law died and now he's trying to offload a 66 Impala (1 owner 37k original miles) for $10k. I just can't afford it right now. :(
I'm also thinking about building up a tri-5 convertible. My cousin is getting his replacement going ( http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/projectnew57.html ) and I'm definately taking notes.
AKDejaVu
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The '66 GTO is my 1st car and were still celebrating B-days together 24th coming up (yes its a tripower ). the poor camaro went bye bye 7 years ago. So yes I still own a "Real Car " !!! can you say ... 421 4bolt block. 455 forged pistons,73 superduty rods,armasteel crank, 670 closed chamber heads , 505 isky cam ,3x2bbls, TH400, 3.36 12bolt posi . non insulated Ram Air one car ! (it was originally a 389 tripower, 4 speed,4.33 10 bolt posi car ) but alias the 11 sec bug got ahold of me . (ive got more pic's but it was a miracle my scanner worked on this one ) ive been thumping on it for 2 weeks now
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The Blackwood was a misallocation of funds and stupidity anyways. Yeah give me a "truck" with Mahogany inserts on the side and a Mahogany "truck" bed. Further this $55,000 vehicle is 2wd only. Piece O' toejame.
I'm surprised the Eldorado is on there. wow, pretty ride that is. Except the vinyl roof crap.
Masher
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this will ALWAYS be better....
(http://ebay1.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_4074ecbf22d5cb24acea48b80d4ed1da/i-1_B.JPG)
than this...
(http://www.modified.com/media/images/13-320003/nos01.jpg)
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The Camaro and Firebird will be replaced by imported Australian Holden V8 supercars. In my opinion, a step up. Better styling, more efficient use of space.
I had a '65 Pontiac Tempest and '69 Pontiac LeMans in high school. The '65 had the best balance of acceleration and handling and practicality, and the '69 LeMans was pure straight-line speed but rolled like a boat. I sold the LeMans for a profit and bought a high-mileage '75 Firebird in college and I thought it was the ultimate vehicle. Went looking for Firebirds again once I had a real job, but they were built like crap and had too much plastic for a muscle car. Styling was a bit juvenile and the nose (the part between the front wheel and the bumper) seemed too long. Roof was too close to my head and the back window heated up like a sauna. Ended up getting a Honda Civic EX coupe instead. Car handled like a dream (with alloy rims and overspec'd Potenza tires) but acceleration was a bit weak. I was going to turn it into a project car and beef up the intake system, but traded it in on a new Xterra before I could complete the job.
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I'd rather have a '68 Challenger, but this will suffice. :D
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Cadillac Eldorado
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Prizm
Chrysler Prowler
Lincoln Blackwood
Lincoln Continental
Mercury Cougar
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Pontiac Firebird
Suzuki Esteem
Hello H2
http://www.hummerh2.net/iprice.html
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K-car
Pacer
Gremlin
Vega
That should help the US compete!
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Eleanor!!!
Masher
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ah yes...67(?) shelby mustang!
that could well be the most beautiful car ever made:)
and for 50k+ it should be;)
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
0-60 in who cares... chicks dig it:
Ahhh, another BMW fan! banana is coming to the darkside soon as well I believe...
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Mr. DJV,
A friend of mine who really wanted a mini mentioned how Coopers will do well in SCCA where Miatas currently shine... maybe even take over?
Same friend mentioned how BMW concentrated on the suspension design when the new mini was being worked...
All this talk of American cars/UAW... where is Hangtime?
mauser
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Stop by the web site at http://www.miniusa.com. Its got quite a bit of information on it.
The Mini has the multi-link rear suspension out of the 3 series BMW. BMW also re-designed the transaxle/axles and went with equal length axles to prevent torque steer. It works amazingly well.
Other than that... and totally stiffening the vertical movement, its simply a case of having the tires all the way out at the corners and keeping the car pretty wide and short.
I've not had a situation where its gotten close to getting away from me. Most of the roads around here are not too forgiving on mistakes... so I can't say I've truly tested it. They usually put those corners there for a reason.
I have, however, driven some pretty awesome roads (Germantown for those PDX guys) and can say the car is as snug as you can get. Usually people stop trying to keep up with me after the first corner or two.
The major downfall of the car is low end torque. You do not want to be caught in 2nd below 3k RPM in this car facing any kind of an uphill grade. And I term the A/C button the "turbo" button. Turning off the A/C remarkably affects acceleration... moreso than any other car I've owned. I'd like to say things were better with the Supercharged version... but they weren't. The S seemed to only help from 3500-6200... not below.
Its one of the reasons I chose to go with the non-S and hope that some aftermarket stuff helped at the low end.
AKDejaVu
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Deja, not familiar with the Mini engine, but with the M54 engine (6 cylinder in my 330), if you get below 3000 rpm, torque really falls off, this is an area where the competition beats up BMW, in the "torque" catagory. BMW engines historically like higher RPM's. I currently shift between 3000- and 4500 for the best 'daily driver' performance. 5500-6000 rpm when on a "spirited" drive ;)
Good luck with that new car, I test drove one recently in Fife, they are a hoot!
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The engine is brand new and the result of a joint venture with BMW and Chrysler. They are built in Brazil.
I usually don't have a problem keeping the RPM up except in a 20mph corner (street corner). I hate downshifting into first just to get going again.
I'm used to the RPMs because of my VTec... if anything, I'd be more likely to redline it.
AKDejaVu
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DJV you should transplant the VTEC into that thing.
B16 would be perfect.
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Originally posted by funkedup
DJV you should transplant the VTEC into that thing.
B16 would be perfect.
VTEC, isn't that really an acronym for "Double Vano Technology"? If so, his engine probably already has it...
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IMHO
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Can't argue that point Tahgut!
I tried, I really really really tried....I even had $1000 down on a 2001 Cobra SVT....I test drove it, and almost puked....where do I start, the exterior didn't appeal to me. The interior, the cheesiest, cheapest piece of crap I'd ever seen and egonomically unsatifying...The cabin noise, I was going to use THIS as a daily commuter? The head room, if your 6' or taller, scratch any Mustang or Cobra off your list, your head will rest against the inside of the door/ceiling join...and if your ever T-boned while your head is resting there, rest in peace! The back seat....there is one, but for semi-quadraphegics! Absolutely no leg room what so ever, my requirment was for 4 ADULTS, not 2 adults and a backpack....the ONLY impressive thing about the SVT Cobra I test drove was its muscle, great car for 1/4 mile, but put it in the twisties and you'll see why Germany considers American made sports cars "American Farm Machinery".....
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Ripsnort, VTEC stands for "Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control". It is an electrohydraulic mechanism which switches valve actuation between multiple sets of cam lobes and followers. Up to three different cam profiles can be used for both intake and exhaust. VTEC allows Honda engines to achieve specific power outputs unequalled by any other mass produced non-supercharged engines.
For example, the Honda B16 engine makes 160 hp from 1.6 l. By comparison the Mini Cooper's 1.6 l engine only puts out 115 hp. Equal displacement, similar size and fuel economy, but the VTEC Motor has 40% more power.
BTW it's not "Vano", it's "VANOS". VANOS is a simpler and less effective system which can only change the valve timing, not lift.
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu
0-60 in who cares... chicks dig it:
Bahh...No vehicle will get the chicks AND get them to strip down to their bathing suit like a big 'ol 'merican truck towing a nice ski boat :D
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Who cares about v-tec etc... SAAB has already made a SVC engine (SAAB Variable Combustion).
1,6 liters, 225bhp and 305nm torque.
It's pretty much as fast as SAAB's 3.0 liter V-6 with asymmetric turbo charger. I found couple pics and after little playing with gif-animator...
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a 502 big block with 12:1 compression ratio and 1,000hp it beats any rice i have ever raced oh and its in a 91 camaro..............oh yeah sorry i would have a pic of the one i have but i have no scanner
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heres a pic of mine.........i remeber i posted it in another thread
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High revs sucks
:)
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damn midnight you beat me to it :([/U]