Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on September 23, 2001, 02:25:00 PM
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OK, now I've seen it for real. I'd like to thank AGO for showing me how it is done, and even for acting like he "kicked my ass" when in fact I got tired of chasing his warping, stickstirring no-talent bellybutton around.
To those that I doubted were telling the truth about this "stick-stirring" stuff, I apoligize.
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i see many warpers and they will warp and geting big mounth ,why a hell SERVER dont give smal symbol above icon when player are notorious bad conect, the worst thing warpers fly 50 caliber planes usualy , they know why :p
is it realy just a game ! :(
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I had a bad case of what i thought was stick stirring or warping the other day but i was assured by the other player his net status was fine.I think the Net in general is playing up at the moment because i seem to recall skuzzy saying something the other day.
Stick stirring only seems to have started recently. in here in the last few weeks ive seen it a few times and mainly on spitfires but it may just be the net has been jumpy or the host is having hiccups.
then again it seems to happen just as i get to within 400 yards! seems far too convenient to me.
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Blow your nose Urchin, the snot is running down on your big jutting out bottom lip.
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I had one guy accuse me of this a couple of days ago.I was flying my SpitV when a high P51 swooped on me.I put the nose nose and leveled at 375 mph.I saw him coming in fast on my six so I killed engine,applied full rudder and watched my speed drop to 200 as I barrel rolled onto his 6 and shot his wing a bit as he overshot.He accused me of stick stirring what ever the hell that is..???
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Stick stirring is pretty difficult in AH, as rapid stick movements will bring up the dreaded "dont move your stick so rapidly" warning, accompanied by 10 seconds of unresponsive controls.
I think what is felt to be stick stirring is more often just lag and bad connect issues.
dago
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Dago, stick-stirring is the same movement you do when you calibrate your stick (full circles). It wont give the dreaded message.
Ive seen it done a lot. I even tried it once to see how the heck such a manouver could make the enemy miss my plane, even when I was barely changing alt and barely moving in the horizontal. Amazingly, it does work as advertised, people will shoot at you and their bullets zip all around ur cockpit, very,very few hits. And mind you, this is in a fat-assed P-38 no moron can miss at d400 or less!
I mean, WOW! :eek:
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Easy, put your aim not at him, but where he will be. Unless he warps he cant move it too unpredictably.
Fariz
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Okay Tac, and what does the enemy see your plane doing when you stick stir?
dago
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What does the enemy see when you stick stir? does it cause something that looks like warping? if so, that's a bad limitation to have in a combat flight sim, since violent movements are exactly what you should be doing to break someones track.
I would think moving the stick in circles in a game would have little advantage, since the movements would tend to cancel out and keep your plane going in a relatively straight predictable path. Does this take advantage of net lag or something like that?
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Yes, it essentially makes the enemy airplane "jump" from one spot to another as your FE cannot update his position fast enough. That said, I'm thinking that he was laggy as well, or he wouldn't have been warping as much as he did.
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cc. when you stick stir your plane rolls and displaces itself over your screen.
Most times what you see is a 190 that rolls and has its topside banked to the left then the plane suddenly warps a few yds to the right while retaining its same position (that is , banked to the right). The pilot is NOT banking and pulling nose down to get that effect, when they do that the plane's nose and tail dips accordingly, in the stick stirring what happens is what urchin describes above.
Another kind of warp roll is the kind that a P-38 can do when its missing a wingtip. You have to pull the stick Up and down while applying rudder and flaps to keep the thing from losing control or augering. When in this situation, many enemy cons have tried to attack me. I cant even turn at ALL, the best I can do is wobble up and down and hope to throw their aim off. Since I have to apply the rudder and pull stick up and down and to whatever side the missing wing is, the plane changes vectors very erratically. The red guy's FE cant update so quick and he generally sees me flying straight and wobbing up and down a bit then ZIP my plane suddenly is a few feet to one side and 100 ft or so above or below the position I was before the ZIP.
Its not lag on my end or his, it seems the FE dont update so many inputs. This is my guess.
190's do it a lot (their great roll rate is bound to be the culprit :) ), but any plane can do it. Some players have even become experts at it.
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Oh yeah, theres a lot of lag and big mouths out there.
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I used to see this a lot. I have a really bad ISP and I see warps, discoes, and used to see what I thought was stick stirring, frequently.
I use Win98 SE, and recently visited regedit.com to get information on optimizing my connection. It required some registry editing. Since then, I have not seen any of this. Warps are usually at ranges well beyond gun range now, and I only have trouble hitting planes that are rating high G at high aspect. Whatever discoes I was experiencing disappeared too, except for the short period that Nimda reared its ugly hide.
I would love to go to the TA and have someone present proof that stick stirring works. :D
:cool:
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AH model on realy sily way the stall on adverser FE , and now imagine if you got stal on 1 wing when moving to hard and the dumb server will show the turn like stal flip flop on oponent FE .........
and i see that many time
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i canīt prove it so far, but i have the feeling that kicking full rudder produces a lot of warps on the other ones front end (Some people mentioned full rudder kicks here, too...)
This is especially a nuisance in scissors, where people like to improve rollrate with full rudder. Suddenly you see even P38 flipping around like fw190 on your FE.
niklas
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every once in awhile I'll see a "convenient" warp. We saw one in the SEA friday night. Daddog and I were in DHogs chasing a Ki61. I was about to open up at d350 (I think daddog was about 50-100 yds) behind me. All of a sudden, the Tony just warped to the right. Wasn't my ISP, as daddog saw it too. dunno if he induced that one, or it was just luck. didn't save him tho. :D
Stick stirrers usually look like floppy fishes to me. It rarely induces a warp on my FE, except in the case of a determined floppy fish 190. ;) Spits that do it, well, they just kinda bounce around. Hmm, I'll check my film from the other night, but I think I saw a Spit do it before I turned it on.
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Urchin:
You aint seen nothing. People can and do induce warps in this game by stick-stirring, but those of us who came from WB are accustomed to much worse induced warps. I certainly hope AH continues to make improvements in this area but honestly it is nowhere near the problem that it is in other games.
Hooligan
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I got to thinking about this and then remembered that I DO NOT use the regular build of AH anymore. I don't know for sure what technique HT uses for model transitions (input would be really good here HT), but I imagine that the older versions used stick positions to update player positions. Since DirectX 7 came out, programmers can use quaternion formulas instead, which not only saves in data size (data transmitted/received), but should reduce warps as well as make smoothing easier to accomplish.
I'm guessing, but it really seems intuitive.
:cool:
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When came on at 4pm today i engaged a p51 south 27 I would close to his 6 and he would go inverted and appear to hang in my site i would pull the trigger at d300 or so then he would "instaniously" (i cant describe it he was there in my sight then suddenly below) This happened on about 5 passes. I'm not talkin a split esse or a roll. He went inverted then looked like a neg g manuver as the nose would be pointed up with a bit of tail drop. I know this because he "hung" in my site.
Of course I'm some what of a hothead (not like some) so I ask who was the stick Stirrer
and got no answer. Especially since another 51 came and killed me the bastige...... :)
I've seen that several times. Once a spit would do flying on the deck but it was more side to side.
This aint like stick stirring in wb.
I checked ping net stat all were real good.
I rarely see the warps others complain about was this an induced warp? lag? stick stir?
I wanna know cause next time I act like an bellybutton on channel 1 I'll have something to back it up.... :)
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Been acused of it...aint got a friggin clue how to do it.. But if I am "Stick Stirring" it aint on pupose. Just trying to get away.
But then again...so many aces in here that never do anything wrong. Us dweebs will just keep on stirring I guess. ;)
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"Suddenly you see even P38 flipping around like fw190 on your FE"
This is something very odd in the P-38 FM. When you pull any g's and your flaps either drop or retract, the plane will snap roll instantly, making the plane roll to whatever side much faster than a 190.
Hope HTC looks into this as well.
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The second scissor movement of a P38, FW, YAK and some other planes often becomes an HO. Even if you dont follow his maneuver. Pretty weird for a plane about 3-400yds in front of you at the beginning of the maneuver.
I'm sure that lag plays an important role here. A lot of weird maneuvers are due to lag. Someone can game the game as well ... ;)