Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: brady on July 17, 2002, 04:46:29 AM
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Huh?, can we?, at this point I am almost ready to get down and just beg. It has been how long? It is not like their are not any that could be added, I can think of several that would compeat in the MA, and as many that would be of great use in the CT and that the CM's could use.
I will even go so far as to say:
Please:)
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CR42?
MC.200?
G55?
Re2005?
P.108?
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The SM 79 certainly saw wide use & there is not yet a multi engine italian plane. Read a book by some brit ace (Bader?) who shot one down in the Battle of Brittan. The SM 79 crash landed & they went to check out the remains. in the plane they found a couple large wicker baskets filled with salmais, cheese & vino.
LOL
i guess theres some truth in stereotypes
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How about Fiat G.50? ;)
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Agreed. I'd like to see that tri-motor bomber. It's so ugly, it's kind of cool.
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If they added the G.55 with the ability (I think) to carry x5 20mm for bomber intercepting and a torpedo with reduced armament, that would be all that I would fly. It would have to have the black camo scheme though, its not complete without it ;) Or maybe the perk monster G.56, anyone read about that? "Better in most respects to the FW-190 and ME-109"
We also need an Italian bomber, preferably a medium one with three motors.
To make cajun happy we would need to add the CR42 also
Just my $.03
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Whgates3
nice one, your effort will contribute to build a nice community in AcesHIgh :rolleyes: Cya up there to kick your fat bellybutton (isnt it a stereotype?)
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SM79
CR42
MC200
G55
WTG Gatt ;)
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Was that SM79 running away from the battle of britain..or towards it?
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Yes! Add CR42 :), some sorta Italian Early war bomber & a Gloster Gladiator then we can have a "real" Malta set up in the CT! :D
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NO
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The SM 79 certainly saw wide use & there is not yet a multi engine italian plane. Read a book by some brit ace (Bader?) who shot one down in the Battle of Brittan. The SM 79 crash landed & they went to check out the remains. in the plane they found a couple large wicker baskets filled with salmais, cheese & vino.
I think that was A BR 20 and the pilot was S. Tuck
My vote would be MC200, not exciting but easy to model and a representative early war aircraft that saw anction and more than limited production.
Charon
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Judging from Pongo's word looks like hes Canadian ... hmmm, lets take a look at idiotic stereotypes about Canadians.... wow, there are a lot of things! Wait! No need of other idiotic things, Pongo itself is enuff! :D
Jokes apart, Pongo, BR20 and CR42 badly fought the Battle Of Britain. Dead and frozen pilots were punished enuff, even without an armchair pilot words like yours ... ;)
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Well being Italian i have to say....The Goomabadas had it comeing to them. And my Great uncle that got shot down buy one fo those freaking Hurricains...Cr42 is a death trap. So is the Br20. Italy shouldent of never had 3 front line fighters at the start. If they had concentrated on just 1 and made it beter. They could of had somepthing great. And the steriotypes are sort of right. We (as in the civil populas) DID not agree with the Nazies. Ill Duce made us. So we didnt do things right henceforth makeing us the "Ass End" of the Axis party.
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I dont want write about what the IAF should have done in WW2,i talk about AH,and in AH i wish to see the G55 one time.
Give us a second "Main Arena" fighter,and not only another "scenario fighter"...... but ...... wait.........
now i understaind the people want the mc200 and the cr42 just because the Mc202 can shoot down the P40 like an italian man can eat spaghetti and cheese!!!
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Fighter: G.55 (beautiful bird :) )
Bomber
1st choice: Cant Z. 1007 bis "Alcione " (best italian standard WWII bomber)
2nd choice: Piaggio P.108 (too few were built but it was the ultimate "Italian Flying Fortress" :) ).
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whgate3 wrot
i guess theres some truth in stereotypes
lol much more easy use stereotypes than switch up your brain ehhhh :D
Pongo wrot
Was that SM79 running away from the battle of britain..or towards it?
I heard of canadian humour, is this a typical example??
:D
Oh my God!
:rolleyes:
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Or maybe, martello, some of us just like to see planes added that actually had some significant degree of impact on the war. The G55 and Re 2005 do not fall into this category. Low production numbers, limited real use and impact.
The G.55 was considered the best of the Italian DB605-engined fighters, a powerful and robust high-altitude interceptor. Only a few were used in combat, by the fascist Salo-republic after 1943. Production was resumed after after WWII as the G.55A.
or,
The Re.2005 had similar lines as the earlier Reggiane fighters, but it was longer. It had the best performance of all the Italian DB605-engined fighters, but had structural problems. Series production was only 48, before the Italian surrender of 1943.
The MC 205 squeaks in with a usage figure in the hundreds:
The best Italian fighters of WWII used German engines. The M.C.205V was a development of the MC.202, powered by the Daimler Benz DB605 instead of the DB601, and armed with 20mm cannon. It was intended as an interim fighter. The M.C.205 was an effective fighter at low and medium altitudes, but only 262 were built. After the war, 42 were delivered to Egypt, and these were used in the war with Israel of 1948-1949.
but pales compared to:
The M.C.200 originated from the same requirement as the Fiat G.50. It looked similar, had the same virtues and suffered from the same vices: It was a well-designed low-wing monoplane fighter, but underpowered and poorly armed -- the original design was armed with only one 12.7mm gun. Yet the M.C.200 was probably the most used Italian monoplane fighter, and it proved effective against older fighters like the Hurricane. 1153 were built. Breda developed an MC.200bis version powered by a 1180hp Piaggio P.XIX RC45 engine, but this was abandoned in favour of superior types.
Unfortunately, to accurately represent Italian airpower from the era, you're stuck with some decidedly underperforming aircraft. Now if you perked both the G55 or Re 2005, well, I would still push for many other planes first, starting with the the Japanese army late war fighters which did see considerable combat with considerable numbers and would fit well in the MA. Just my opinion.
Charon
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A few point's.
The use of Italian Fighters did not end with the Italian surender in 1943, Co belegerant forces in the North and the Germans used Them untill the war ended, most of the Italian aircraft production was in northern Italy.
The SM 79 is not the Italian Bomber we want, the Cant Z. 1007 is by far a better Machine, exceding the SM 79's performance all across the board. The Z. 1007 saw service throught the Italian war.
Production Numbers are not a great way to decide wheather or not a plane should, or should not be included in AH, planes like the G 55, RE 2005 are representave of the Best in Italian engenering and as such are historicaly revelant. Take the case for the C hog only some 200 were built, America built some 100,000 fighters in WW 2, clearly the C hog represent's a very small fraction of the US fighter output, as samll a fraction as the G 55, or Re 2005 would represent of the Italian production....?
The Italians nead somthing that can pack a Bomb, Either a RE 2000 series plane, or a Cant Z.1007( a very capable torpedo plane as well).
One thing I am certain of is that we will get a Japanese plane, a Russian Plane and of COurse anouther US plane, Not to mention the other countries, Heck we may even get a D 520 before we get another Italian plane, I think it is high time we see somthing else for Italy, shurely we have waited long enough.
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the Italians are picking on me...
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I agree with both Charon and Brady. The C.200 would be a great addition for every North African map and/or scenario. The did well, though armed with only 2x12,7mm, against early Hurricanes and P-40.
In the same time, a G.55 would be a nice 1943 high alt interceptor, in a phase of the war when no 190A5 or 109G-6 (armed with gondolas) could fly or punch better than the italian fighter (with his 3x20mm and 2x12,7mm.
Hehe, Brady ... will our SM79 v/s Cant Z.1007 "war" ever end? ;)
(http://www.bunkerafrikano.it/foto2/alcione01.jpg)
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No Gatt, I don't think so:), Nice pick btw. Ya know some more picks of that girl u put up a while ago would help to ease my longing for My Beloved Cant Z. 1007:)
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I..... Have...To ...........Push......a..Dutch ...Fok..ker... G.1
pleaaaaaaaseeee
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AAAAArgh pict.
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G.55 and SM79 please
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G55 would be sweet. Also like to see the P108.
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i have read in many places that the 2005 could out perform anything that the germans had (excluding the jets) and could exeptionally out perform the mustang
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S!
Agree with Brady. Cant Z1007 is the one we want. Can do all kinds of things, drop torpedos, carry decent bombload, reasonably fast, good choice for Italian bomber.
For a fighter, we already have the MC-205 which was their best large scale production fighter, so I say go with the MC-200. It would save some time for the modelers, since the from the cockpit back is essentially the same as 202. This would give us a '40-'41 Italian fighter.
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wow - didn't think i would offend so many people - or anyone, as it was unintended (BTW, correct Charon, it was Stanford Tuck & a BR 20, thx). Just thought i was relaying a mildly humourous annecdote. Please excuse my lack of political correctness
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Originally posted by Charon
Or maybe, martello, some of us just like to see planes added that actually had some significant degree of impact on the war. The G55 and Re 2005 do not fall into this category. Low production numbers, limited real use and impact...
Yet we have the Ta152 and the C-Hog? :rolleyes:
As I hit my books, the G.55 was developed into three different versions
G.55/I was the standard production model
G.55/II with one built had x5 20mms :eek:
G.55S with 10 built could carry a torpedo with reduced armament
and an extended tail wheel leg
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Here's a decent link
http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/fighters.htm
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I'd rather see the Ki-84 Hayate, the Brewster Buffalo, the Commonwealth Boomerang, and the Ju-87 Stuka. In fact, I can't believe we don't have the Stuka and the Hayate already. No WW2 sim would be complete without them!
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nice link kevin thx
:)
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gofstar: I would bet big money we will see these planes in the near future.It howeaver has been a long time in coming for the Italian fan's, in the intrest of fairness alone, they deserve at least one new plane. Better yes a Buff and a fighter.
A M.C. 200 would be nice, heck anything new for Italy would be nice:)
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the French, Dutch, Romanian, Australian, Polish, Czech, Finns, Yugoslavs (I'm sure i'm leaving someone out, but cant think of whom) have all been waiting longer than the Italians, but of the major powers, it is definitely the Reggia Aeornautica's turn
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They should have two huge releases like 1.10 (Right, like this will happen :rolleyes: ) with all the smaller countries and the Regia Auronautica getting some planes. As for them smaller countries, Sweden should get the JJVS 42 (I think?) and France the D.520. I could pull for either the G.55 or Re.2005 now that I read some about it. BTW, anyone got a good illuminated Italian gunsight?
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The "S.Giorgio" gunsight had a simple cross. Imagine a Revi without the circle.
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Anyone have a link to G.55 vs. Re-2005? I would like to see how these compare. I hope HiTechCreations eventually sees this thread.
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I am prety shure They have,Big Brother is always watching:)
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when we get the correct armorments for the 190f8 we can have an italian plane
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Originally posted by Soviet
when we get the correct armorments for the 190f8 we can have an italian plane
Why do some people insist on posting in other's threads that are asking for suchandsuch Italian/Japanese/Russian/British/German/American aircraft to put their biased, non-coxtextual, and uneforcable conditions on the request?
Its stupid and rude.
As for the Italian aircraft, I'd like any of the following:
G.55
Re.2005
SM.79-II
P.108B
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It's weird, the P108.B was better than the B-17 in every category except defensive armament, it had a 4000kg bomb load, about 33% more than the 17
For a medium I think I'd have to pull for the Cant 1007
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Originally posted by gatt
The "S.Giorgio" gunsight had a simple cross. Imagine a Revi without the circle.
I've modified kurakura's illuminated Revi C16B gunsight to match your description of the S.Giorgio gunsight for the Italian aircraft in AH. You can obtain it, and all of kurakura's illuminated gunsights, from this thread here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59456
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PUNT! I'm dying for a new Italian plane, hope HiTechCreations sees this
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Yup:)
I Cant live Without my Cant Z. 1007:)
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Originally posted by Kevin14
It's weird, the P108.B was better than the B-17 in every category except defensive armament, it had a 4000kg bomb load, about 33% more than the 17
For a medium I think I'd have to pull for the Cant 1007
for long range missions, from what I've read, the B-17 could carry up to 8,000 lbs (about 800 lbs less than the P108.B), but for short range missions the flying fort could a bit more than 17000 lbs of bombs. i think the limitation of the B-17 load was the size of the bomb bay, but adaptations were made to carry bombs under the wings
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I never knew Italian bombers could attract so many babes! BTW is that valet parking?
http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/z506.htm
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The P. 108, was a fantastic machine to be shure,It would be if added a Great Axis Heavy, It had no Tail gun but mounted on each wing their was a remote controll reward firing barbet, containg 2 12.7mm Breda MG's, that could easly cover the tail. Also their was a Ventral turet, and waste guns as well, the only real differance in arament (defensively) is the deferance in 12.7 mm Breda and the 50 Browning, in terms of coverage they are about equil.
O the P.108 is torpedo capable:)
Beneto's son died in one, over Geberalter I think.
Now after saying all that, I must say that, very few were made, and If I had to back an Axis Heavy it would be the He 177.
But back on to my crusade for an Italian Bomber the Cant Z. 1007 is by far the best choice:)
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Punt, maybe this might happen in 1.12
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"waste gun" Brady? that makes me imagine using what collects in the WC as a projectile - kind of an old fasioned weapon for WWII - lolololololololololol - no offense intended, of course, but i couldn't help myself
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Perhaps, HTC will bring back the spell checker, and spare us all:)
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For my money fellers, I would like to see the SM79 first. She's a beautiful plane, was a gem to fly according to accounts, and had long service in several theatres. Also, modeling the tri-engine from there it would not be too difficult to add fixed gear, downgrade performance slightly and have the SM 81 Pipistrello which gives you a Spanish Civil War bomber/transport through the early North Africa campaigns. Also, would not take many modifications to change teh SM79 model to teh Cant Alcione, the best Italian Bomber.
I woud love to see a P108, but you know, it wasn't widely used.
There were also several excllent 2 and 3 engined floatplane/scout torpedoe bombers that would be great additions and as well as the Fiat 32 and 42s for Spanish Civil war and North Africa/Gibraltar campaigns.
The Br20, love it or hate it, was widley used and would also be a great plane to have online.
Just my ignorant .02 worth.
Sakai
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Punt