Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Virage on July 17, 2002, 10:00:10 AM
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Now that your first born is up and running, what do you think of your little darling AKDesert? As the first to tackle the design of AH's 512X512 Map, what has and hasn't worked and have there been any surprises on how the design has fleshed out? I am curious to get your views after putting in so much hard work for the community!
!
ps - This is not a Troll, or an invitation to flame. So Don't.
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Can't speak for any AK other than myself. I've found that the map fosters more smaller fights, I like that. On the smaller maps I often found myself charging into a fight and discovering I was surrounded by 5-10 enemies with no help in sight, yes my SA often sucks, that or I'm too careless or both. I'm not one of the elite pilots that can fight against overwhelming odds and win.
I've also found that I frequently lose red icons in the terrain. Mixed feelings about that, hate it when it happens but it does pump up the adrenaline.
The map has generated a bit of controversy. Am I glad to have participated in making this terrain? Yes. Will I do it again? No.
And thanks for asking.
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Whew, good to hear.
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AKIron,
dont know if u tryed this or not
i had trouble with the red icons so i changed my colors to bright pink for enemy icons and this i found helped alot.
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Whew....., why? that the AK's are out of the map making business?
Careful what you wish for.
You may have just shot yourself in the foot.
I didn't work on the map, I became an AK after the map, so I stayed completely out of the slugfest. My first reaction to the map wasn't any different than most peoples. But I like the map, theres something for everyone. Althou I love furballing, My computer can't handle them and i need to advoid them. I can always find a fight on the map that my computer can handle. The GV's have been pulled back into play and useful again. Without Air support gv's are in trouble. I've been in some GREAT GV battles in this map.
AKNuttz
Originally posted by TheManx
Whew, good to hear.
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My first reaction is my current reaction. I don't like the map at all. If more people were in CT I'd spend all my time there. If I've shot myself in the foot because new maps will be better thought out, then so be it. It's a frame hog, it's got the ugliest terrain of any maps I've seen to date, and it's a strat nightmare.
You're right though, it has given something for everyone. For me it's given more reasons to spend time with my family. So for that, I thank you AK's very much.
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Yes, one thing I have to admit is I LOVE flying Close Air support missions against advancing GV's.
The most fun I've ever had on AH was on this map just last week.
It's just so damn big, though.
But I've learned how to find my squaddies by using the Roster GOTO key, and to use the .move XXX command.
Variety is the spice of life, so eventually I would like to see a new map put into the rotation. But as for now, I'm happy as a clam.
(You know why clams are so happy? They have both Male and Female sex organs. It's true. Muck's useless fact of the day)
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Originally posted by TheManx
If I've shot myself in the foot because new maps will be better thought out, then so be it.
If only you'd aimed a little higher. :p
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Why do you want him to shoot himself in the ankle?:D
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Guess I shoulda been more specific, 5-6 feet is what I had in mind. ;)
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Originally posted by keyapaha
AKIron,
dont know if u tryed this or not
i had trouble with the red icons so i changed my colors to bright pink for enemy icons and this i found helped alot.
I tried different colors but bright pink wasn't one of them. Will give it a try, thanks for the tip.
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Perple is better I think.
-SW
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Originally posted by Virage
Now that your first born is up and running, what do you think of your little darling AKDesert? As the first to tackle the design of AH's 512X512 Map, what has and hasn't worked and have there been any surprises on how the design has fleshed out? I am curious to get your views after putting in so much hard work for the community! !
ps - This is not a Troll, or an invitation to flame. So Don't.
I'm pleased with the way the design turned out.
Things I don't like:
1) ack is too difficult to see against the field color.
2) I didn't appreciate how hard it would be to gather in the entire scope of the war. Hitech's changes to the clipboard have helped, but they didn't solve all problems.
Things I do like:
1) The outer ring. Right now, we don't have an abundance of tanks, but some day we will. :)
2) How difficult it is to see panzers against the green/desert texture. I really like Wabbit's textures.
3) The wide variety of fields at different altitudes. At the higher fields, you should up a Spit9, 109 or pony. The spit9's climbrate at 10K+ (to 25k) is superb. When you decide to defend a field, you have to stop and think: which plane should I fly? It makes a big difference.
4) canyon fights.
5) It is REALLY difficult to kill HQ. Loss of DAR is not a welcome thing. I like how a side has to literally go to sleep to lose its DAR.
curly
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I've gathered three things since AKDESERT was released:
1: those that dont like it are extremely vocal about their dislikes
2: those that like it quietly go about their business playing it
3: those that like it GREATLY outnumber those that dislike it
I feel for all of you that have lost love for AH because of this map but I for one like this map and would be upset if a minority stops maps like it being made
1000 thankyou's to the AK's for aiding the evolution of AH
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Originally posted by TheManx
You're right though, it has given something for everyone. For me it's given more reasons to spend time with my family. So for that, I thank you AK's very much.
Must be a real nice family if a game map was the reason you needed to spend more time with them. Or maybe you are just that kind of Father?
Go ahead and flame me for the comment, but you said it, not me
Think about it.
Just saying
X2Lee
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*Ding Ding Ding Ding*!
That was a nice left hook from Xlee, will 'TheManx' be able to stand a second round ? :D Watch HTCBC to know more... !
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I like the new big map.
Flew a bit during the "return to ndisles" last night and just couldn't get into it. Ndisles might be ok if they could scale it up to 512 x512 or something but ---> to me <--- 400 players just overwhelms the smaller maps.
Bigger is better. :D
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Must be a real nice family if a game map was the reason you needed to spend more time with them. Or maybe you are just that kind of Father?
X2Lee Are you TheManx´s son crying ?? Did he leave you so alone???? :(
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I really like the large map. Just couldnt get into the island map last night..and it used to be one of my favorites.
Shamus
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What Toad and Shamus said....Ndisles map is now a big furball map. :) Thats okay though, I like furballing when time is short.
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X2Lee :D
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I like the new map....I logged on last night to fly (wifey and kids out of town) sat there looking at the boring ndisle terrain, logged and watched the tube.
After the new terrain, the old stuff is visually disappointing.
One word....rotation
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I logged on last night to fly (wifey and kids out of town)
You only get to play when your "wifey" is out of town there Rude cuz she says so, or it's just now that your worried about being a perceived as a good family man on some bbs?
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I like the new map and I dislike the new map for various reasons mentioned in other posts.
I'm still bemused as to why the change to such a large map from the smaller 1.09 maps. IMHO I feel that a map with a size inbetween 1.09 and 1.10 would have been more welcomed by more folks.
Please keep the maps rotating.
Pardon my ignorance but can a reset be achieved on the huge "pizza" map? Or will we be stuck in the Sisyphean effort of trying to knock out a country to gain a reset for eternity? I hope there is a time limit on the rotation, HTC.
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Originally posted by Packy
Pardon my ignorance but can a reset be achieved on the huge "pizza" map? Or will we be stuck in the Sisyphean effort of trying to knock out a country to gain a reset for eternity? I hope there is a time limit on the rotation, HTC.
The "pizza" map was reset at least twice while I was on, probably was reset several times in the two weeks it was in the MA. Both times I saw the reset it took only one day.
I think it has potential to be difficult to reset if defended smartly, time will tell.
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Creamo STFU
Rotation is ok, although I when I find Mindanao in rotation I'll log back off again. Big map has lots going for it. Like any terrain it takes some time to learn to be able to play it well.
Just like a really tough new course is for golf.
Anyway I've flown more, and had more fun in the last 2 weeks on the big map than I have in the previous 3 months on Mindanao.
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This mean we aren't going to train together Ghost? My family will be out of town, so after church and taking a few cute little fellers to a Big Brothers ballgame, I could (shamefully) play AH.
By the way, doesn't STFU stand for Shut The diddly Up? (I'm telling Voss you foul person)
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Thanks for the concern X2, it is indeed appreciated. Let me set your mind at ease though. I have a great wife and kids, and I'd never change my home life for anyone. Got two sons 8 and 5 and another on the way at the end of August, and been married for 12 of the best years of my life. That said, I still think the map is ugly as hell.
I would have enjoyed constructing some witty scenario about your family in response, but It's my personal belief you keep things civil. I don't avoid many things, but I've never attacked someone's family to get a point across.
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I love the desert terrain. I would like to see a desert skinset for the planes. There have been several 202s and 205s that get passed by because they blend in so well. I think it would be great to have a skinset for each map. Would be more realistic. As far as seeing ack against the sand, you will just have to pay better attention now:)(
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Guy mentions he has a family and someone insults his family....
wow.
And then he gets cheered for it.
Im going to stay out of this one. But people that have showed how they like to play...will wish they could delete that one some day I think. Cause that is as lousy and toejamty as it comes.
And what goes around comes around.
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Originally posted by Manxer
Thanks for the concern X2, it is indeed appreciated. Let me set your mind at ease though. I have a great wife and kids, and I'd never change my home life for anyone. Got two sons 8 and 5 and another on the way at the end of August, and been married for 12 of the best years of my life. That said, I still think the map is ugly as hell.
I would have enjoyed constructing some witty scenario about your family in response, but It's my personal belief you keep things civil. I don't avoid many things, but I've never attacked someone's family to get a point across.
Like I said before, you said it not me.
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Actually, you assumed it. But as I said, you're playing with a deck of cards I'm not willing to use. Feel free to flame at will, as I won't retaliate the way you did.
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Originally posted by Creamo
This mean we aren't going to train together Ghost? My family will be out of town, so after church and taking a few cute little fellers to a Big Brothers ballgame, I could (shamefully) play AH.
By the way, doesn't STFU stand for Shut The diddly Up? (I'm telling Voss you foul person)
Lol creamo - you forgot blood donor.:D
curly
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Originally posted by X2Lee
Must be a real nice family if a game map was the reason you needed to spend more time with them. Or maybe you are just that kind of Father?
Ya knowwhat Manx? Your absolutly correct. I must apologize
for my statement. Im sure you do have a wonderful family, and I am not being sarcastic.
This is a sincere apology. I was way outta line.
Now back to my typical bad nature,
What kinda crappy Dad needs a
crappy game map to make him spend time with his wonderful family?
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Pardon my ignorance but can a reset be achieved on the huge "pizza" map? Or will we be stuck in the Sisyphean effort of trying to knock out a country to gain a reset for eternity? I hope there is a time limit on the rotation, HTC.
The Pizza got reset four days or so after it came out, by the knights. Bishops reset it at least twice after that, maybe more. Rooks never got a reset (or even came close), as far as I know. We were backed up in a corner near our HQ most of the time.
It's not as hard to reset that map as you think. You need some squads that are very good at taking bases quickly, especially with GVs (GVs seem very important). And it's actually easy to cut off and isolate bases, especially the ones near the HQs. We were backed up near A39 for an entire weekend...the nearest airfield to that base is 50-60 miles away, so resupply runs were tough.
I like the Pizza, but I do like seeing the other terrains back in rotation for a while too.
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Originally posted by TheManx
Whew, good to hear.
And this is somehow civil?? Guess you're one of those that can dish out the insults but get can't take 'em?
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It is civil actually. My video card reacts to this map terribly. I would be happy if everyone (ak's included) stopped using tiles that dropped my frame rate from 55 fps to 19 fps (which is what was happening). I'm not sure if the new tiles just didn't like ATI cards, but things got ugly. Did you guys test the map on different video cards, and if so did you document the specs and appearance differences? That "whew" meant a lot of things, and I'm pleased as hell that the old maps are put back into the rotation.
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Oh, I can take an insult about Aces High. I'm a relative newbie, so it shouldn't be hard to find some way to do it without involving parenting. Look at my hit%, kd, anything you like, and then come back and kick me in the arse with it....just leave family out. Unless of course you need to, then by all means...go ahead. I just won't respond the same way.
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The terrain tiles are just bitmaps. Same bitmaps they were on the smaller maps.
The sheer size of the map, or amount of sides on the terrain, would probably be the cause for your low frame rate.
Meaning, if HTC goes the way of the larger maps (possibly they'll leave the smaller maps in a dif arena), then you gotta upgrade anyway.
But yeah, ATI cards... driver support, eck.
-SW
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Originally posted by Manxer
Oh, I can take an insult about Aces High. I'm a relative newbie, so it shouldn't be hard to find some way to do it without involving parenting. Look at my hit%, kd, anything you like, and then come back and kick me in the arse with it....just leave family out. Unless of course you need to, then by all means...go ahead. I just won't respond the same way.
You did clamor for civility, but only after someone poked fun at you. Prior to that you made several posts that were inflammatory. If ya can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
BTW, you were the one that brought your family into this.
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(You know why clams are so happy? They have both Male and Female sex organs. It's true. Muck's useless fact of the day)
so does a worm but do you think they're happy ?
niehter will EVERY AH player at once...
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I just asked you to keep my family out of any Manx bashing you need to do. Feel free to flame on about how crappy I am etc...lets get this flame fest going in the right direction. If your stats aren't good enough to start one, I'll recruit someone's whose is so that you can get him to start in on me. Failing that, keep the family insults up, I'm just stating that I won't do the same.
BTW, (game related) I still think the map you created was the greatest abomination to hit online gaming since WWIIOL's release. There, go crazy with that quote.
if I'm going to be blamed for incivility in this thread...I might as well give you good reason.
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Originally posted by Manxer
I just asked you to keep my family out of any Manx bashing you need to do. Feel free to flame on about how crappy I am etc...lets get this flame fest going in the right direction. If your stats aren't good enough to start one, I'll recruit someone's whose is so that you can get him to start in on me. Failing that, keep the family insults up, I'm just stating that I won't do the same.
BTW, (game related) I still think the map you created was the greatest abomination to hit online gaming since WWIIOL's release. There, go crazy with that quote.
if I'm going to be blamed for incivility in this thread...I might as well give you good reason.
Let's get the facts straight, first, I never said anything about your family and in fact no one else here did either. What was said was about you, not your family so stop hiding behind that.
Second, you've already made several provactive posts regarding our 'pizza' map. I for one don't care what you think about it or the AK's. I just found it amusing that you quickly retreated behind civility after making such an bellybutton out of yourself. You don't like me and vice versa, no need to hide behind your family.
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You dislike me because I don't say pretty things about your map? Get real, and learn to deal with the obvious criticism this monstrosity was bound to create. I don't dislike you, or the AK's. In fact I enjoy fighting against you guys. Would rather you all stay the hell away from Photoshop though (except for Nuttz, his works quite good). If you're going to dislike everyone who disagrees with you, you're in for an ulcer any time now.
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Thanx for the compliment.
BTW I'm an AK, thats why I responded with "you may have shot yourself in the foot" remark about not wanting the Ak's to do maps.
The original poster asked a question and also asked it didn't turn into a flame fest ( which you ignored )
If you hate the map so much, why not constructively add to a discussion about building a new one? Or did you completely pass over that post???
Oh and I don't use Photoshop, never did, never will.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by TheManx
You dislike me because I don't say pretty things about your map? Get real, and learn to deal with the obvious criticism this monstrosity was bound to create. I don't dislike you, or the AK's. In fact I enjoy fighting against you guys. Would rather you all stay the hell away from Photoshop though (except for Nuttz, his works quite good). If you're going to dislike everyone who disagrees with you, you're in for an ulcer any time now.
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AK's map is pretty good,
But its just a little too big for the current number of players imo,
I love strategic part of aces high, organizing & flying missions, bombing, etc. but I can't see any of the feilds, or determine what needs capturing or any of that, and finding people is a kinda hard,
Terrain is ok, though I prefer Geographic maps, and tiles need a little upgrading (there should be some forests, even in the desert I think).
But the Over All map is OK, the thing I didn't like was thats ALL that they were rotating, even the best maps bet boring when played too much!
The Kind of map I'd like to see:
1: Inbetween the size of normal maps & the Pizza map would be perfect IMO, think about it, You could still make out feilds easily, the ppl who like furballs can still furball, the people who like strategic bombing can still have room to avoid furballs, and in slow hours it will still be playable for people who may live in other countries!
2: Geographic maps, I LOVE playing on geographic maps, much nicer then made up terrains to me, and if its a made up terrain, I like it somewhat randomized, not perfectly even on all sides, makes base capture much more interesting.
Thats bout it, also I would REALLY like to see a World Map!, you could make that the size of the Pizza map, BUT the only problem is going to be textures, dont think you could fit all the textures you need for a world map in the few that are in the Editor, Or can you more add textures than just the "Grass", "Water", "Farm" etc?
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I probably shouldn't have said that little word that stirred up all this controversy. But I meant it, and this is a forum...so there it is. This topic has gone on long enough though, and I just wanna play on the old maps before they get rotated out. So I'll let it rest. Just one last question...what graphics program do you use?
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Your incorrect AKIron.
"Must be a real nice family if a game map was the reason you needed to spend more time with them. Or maybe you are just that kind of Father?
Go ahead and flame me for the comment, but you said it, not me
Think about it.
Just saying
X2Lee"
Lee is just defining how he wants to play with others. Nothing was said to warrent this..Several others congradulated lee for his attack on another players family. If thats the behavior you want to endorse to defend your map...your buisness i suppose.
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Corel
NUTTZ
Originally posted by TheManx
I probably shouldn't have said that little word that stirred up all this controversy. But I meant it, and this is a forum...so there it is. This topic has gone on long enough though, and I just wanna play on the old maps before they get rotated out. So I'll let it rest. Just one last question...what graphics program do you use?
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(http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/75526/200.jpg)
Need Tampons?
(http://www.westwoodi.net/~smilies/contrib/ruinkai/sh1a.gif)
-SW
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Pizza map is my favorite map. I like the terrain, textures look good and , most important, it has a full range of fun things to do.
I liked getting into the GV game.... those outer GV bases have some great battles, especially when air support arrived. I like to attack from a nearby carrier by air.
I dont like the "Pizza" shape of the map because it's so unnatural, but actually it's layed out funtionally very well.
Going online and seeing that boring bellybutton island map really was a bummer. Only furballing basically. Get's old jumping into a furbal when you know the instant you are in it, you have about 25 seconds before the next wave of higher fighters are arriving.
The pizza just a lot more fun for me.
Manx, you might not hate it so much if you didnt have that FR problem. It took me about 12 hours playing it to begin to realize how much better it is than the other maps. I originally did not like it. I hope you get that FR issue solved Manx, maybe next time that pizza arrrives ( pun intended) you could begin to have some fun with it.
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Originally posted by TheManx
You dislike me because I don't say pretty things about your map? Get real, and learn to deal with the obvious criticism this monstrosity was bound to create. I don't dislike you, or the AK's. In fact I enjoy fighting against you guys. Would rather you all stay the hell away from Photoshop though (except for Nuttz, his works quite good). If you're going to dislike everyone who disagrees with you, you're in for an ulcer any time now.
I just don't like you cause you showed your bellybutton and then whined like a little girl when someone called you on it. Not liking someone, especially you, isn't going to give me an ulcer. You, like some of the other loud mouths have been full of venom but I've yet to see what you've contributed to this community other than your measly $15/month which I couldn't care less about.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Your incorrect AKIron.
"Must be a real nice family if a game map was the reason you needed to spend more time with them. Or maybe you are just that kind of Father?
Go ahead and flame me for the comment, but you said it, not me
Think about it.
Just saying
X2Lee"
Lee is just defining how he wants to play with others. Nothing was said to warrent this..Several others congradulated lee for his attack on another players family. If thats the behavior you want to endorse to defend your map...your buisness i suppose.
Pongo, you're incorrect in assuming that I care if anyone defends the map. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if HTC pulled it from rotation and never put it back. In fact, I'd welcome it simply because I could then read this board without having to sift through so many idiotic attacks.
Having reread X2Lee's post as you've quoted I see I first intrepted it as a slam on manx's parenting and not on his family. After rereading I see that you could intrpret otherwise but I think if you do you are really missing his point.
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If thats the behavior you want to endorse to defend your map...your buisness i suppose.
Oh Pongo. I think you're going a little over the top.
Iron never insulted his family nor congratulated the person who did.
Manx has gone out of his way to be as abusive and insulting as possible concerning the terrain. He feels completely unbound by any limit of coutesy. Then someone else treats him the same way and he is suddenly shocked and flabergasted.
I don't condone either behavior, but I (and Iron) can't help but recognize the irony.
If Manx wishes others to observe a basic level of courtesy towards him then he should consider carefully whether he is exercising a basic level of courtesy towards others. If he takes a childish glee out of being as insulting as he can toward others, then don't expect me to care when he feels someone has crossed a line with him. Its not what I care to engage in personally, but I won't cry a river over it. What you said was exactly true. What goes around eventually comes around.
Iron's only real mistake is in even acknowledging his existence. He doesn't rate that. All I see when I look at his posts is "This person is on your ignore list..." And thats where he belongs. He is a non-entity.
Looking forward to the Con.
Regards,
Wab
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I see you AK's are still creating friends whereever you go hehe :)
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I could honestly care less if AKiron acknowledges me or not. I'd never heard of the guy until this map mess came up. You're getting worked up AKiron...I'm not going to change my views on this at all just because you get into a hissy fit. I do appreciate that X2lee saw what he said could be construed as being rude, and I've got no problems with that. Next time I see him online, I'll have nothing bad to say about it. You're just taking the ball from someone who already said his intent wasn't on the up and up and running with it. You've got some serious issues to work out. My only issue was worked out when the old maps were put back. Keep defending a guy who's already apologized all you like, but it just makes you look more like an idiot than you already do.
You should probably take a look at that first statement again and see if you aren't blowing things out of proportion a bit :) By the looks of 90% of the threads out there...there are many opinions much worse than what I've said. Still wouldn't say I dislike you though...I wouldn't spend any time trying to justify why I would to someone like yourself. Keep up the hate though...it's fun watching you vent.
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Hehe. The world is full of Turds and Tards Spooky. ;)
You're going to run into them no matter where you go.
This bbs has an excellent feature to flush them away never to be read again.
I wish the game had a perma-squelch list as well.
Regards,
Wab
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My point about being offended is in regards that neglect of children is not funny at all, and something I'd never do. Any good parent would react the same way if the insult was thrown at him.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Your incorrect AKIron.
"Must be a real nice family if a game map was the reason you needed to spend more time with them. Or maybe you are just that kind of Father?
Lee is just defining how he wants to play with others. Nothing was said to warrent this..Several others congradulated lee for his attack on another players family. If thats the behavior you want to endorse to defend your map...your buisness i suppose.
Ok In case you missed the post where I apologized for sayin "his family must be nice" I did. I meant it too because I felt I was wrong after re reading my post. I didnt take back what I said about him, I did and still do, hold him in regard as a rude, butt iner
The first post in this thread was a curious post as to how the makers (of my favorite MA map) felt about "their" creation.
it was stated "this is not an invitation to flame so please dont"
By the poster. So Mr. Manx jumps right in and says, :rolleyes:
Well you know what he says. Then later he says the map gives him a reason to spend time with his family. :D
Where I previously saw someone the above mentioned rude buttinner now I saw Al Bundy as well...
I saw him say I took back what I considered as uncalled for and I did. But I stick to my statement except for the poor wording about his family(which I did not mean) And as far as how I want to play? I can play dirty or nice, I have experience in both.
Anyway, thats what warranted this "imo" Pongo
X2lee
:eek:
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Originally posted by AKWabbit
Iron's only real mistake is in even acknowledging his existence. He doesn't rate that. All I see when I look at his posts is "This person is on your ignore list..." And thats where he belongs. He is a non-entity.
Looking forward to the Con.
Regards,
Wab
You're right Wabb, I'll do better at ignoring the idiots beginning now.
Same here on the con, less than 2 weeks. :)
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gotta say when the new map came out I found it hard, then I worked out how I could use it and adapted my style of playing and started to enjoy myself once more.
If you can provoke a couple of guys/squad to defend a base you can have hours of fun or look for a base to defend yourself.
I had alot more 1v1 and 2v1 and had more fun Buff hunting with my squad without the pressure of other people around forcing you to attack early because their about to attack from dead 6 and dont care if they die as long as they get at least one kill. I find this really annoying if you've spent the time to gain alt and get infront of the formation to set up for a run.
yeah the map had things I didn't like that much, but on the whole I liked it.
The old maps came back and I felt quite claustrophobic, I find that my assists have increased due to the 'everybody follow the smoking plane syndrome' and I cant find my own space as easily.
waiting for more big maps,
WTG AK's
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Yes lee, you did appologize but Iron denied it happend, so I pointed out to him what was said.
Wabbit.It was just a reminder that it did happen. Some people were denying it did. How do you share a beer at the con after you have attacked someones family?
Once you take the gloves off their off. Manx has to learn that but blasting the fight over into peoples families..
bad idea I think. Just as bad as trying to pretend it didnt happen.
I think the AK map was an interesting experiment. I had always favoured a very side ballanced map as the designers of that map obviosly did. The abundence and speed of the vehicle spawns was also something that I had thought would really improve the game. And I love canyons as much as anyone.
So I saw many ideas in that map that had occured to me and that I had talked about with others over beers, but none of us had the nuts or skill to build the thing and test it and submit it. And you guys did. Most of the people in this game that you respect probably respect you for your effort, and see value with the map as well as having issues with facets of it.. I had fun on your map though I never got used to looking at the map zoomed out.